This roster is not bad IF.......

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The "This roster is not bad" thread needs a refresh. Like: This roster is not bad IF....

1. Fox is a major key. How is his rehab? Is he dunking like a madman as he was after his first knee surgery when he was ramping up - but then got knocked down by his second knee surgery. Love his athleticism and his energy and his leadership. He has gone quiet this time around. Maybe he just wants to prove it on the floor.

2. Similar for Ihnen but rehab not as much a worry. Has he really taken a big step?

3. Is Mike Mitchell an impact player? Cooper had his moments but was not an impact player at Big Ten level. Lacked speed and athleticism. Mitchell has more of both.

4. Will Carrington be healthy? Can he be a good back-up point guard and push Mitchell? Being healthy fixes a lot that held him back a little. There is lot to like. But becoming an elite shooter would be huge!

5. Is Christie an All Big Ten Freshman - with immediate impact?

6. Is Erick Reader vastly underrated? I have seen him play and develop for four years. Better every year. Quite skilled. Small school but some good opponents. Played AAU for Coach Larry Suggs. (of "guards come in all sizes fame" for developing Chet Holmgren - not to mention Jalen). He is a good friend of Issac Asuma and played AAU with him on a Suggs team. He is excited about playing with Asuma at the U. (and importantly Asuma is excited about playing with him at the U). He may carve out a much bigger role in Gopher basketball than the typical preferred walk-on. But not likely this year.

7. Will Dawson Garcia (great player) be even better with a second year in one place?

8. Will Payne (great player) take a step like Oturo did? That would be awesome. Can he be just as impactful with fewer fouls. That can happen with experience.

9. Can OJO (super contributor) add a tiny bit more control and harness the energy fully? He has to take over some of Henley's fearless attacking and getting to rim when opportunity opens up. (Henley with a year of experience could have been a really good piece.)

10. Did Betts get more out of a development red shirt than another year of high school. Is he shovel ready? Is he an elite shooter?

11. Is Wilson a good guy who adds team energy. He has size and strength and has a few years of college basketball and college football under his belt. He has re-focused on basketball for about a full year at this point. He could be a mentor and a role model for perseverance if nothing else. And maybe a banger for sparse minutes in appropriate situations.

12. Howdoes the overall team dynamic develop, including players and coaching staff? They all have a lot to prove. Can they put it together and forge a team that is stronger than the individual pieces. Are there players who can make other players better? Fox did that at Augustana for sure. Mitchell almost has to do that to have a really good team. Others have possibilities, especially Garcia. Also Payne. Maybe Christie but that is a lot to ask of a true freshman. Maybe Carrington.

Anyway, it is not all bleak.
 


gopherbadgerman said:
1. They add two all conference level players. A PG and a true scorer.
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Good grief. How many all conference players are there? If you go with three all conference teams then you have 15 such players. There are 14 Big Ten teams. Garcia was already third team, Payne has a shot at that level. If they added somebody that is also all conference at the guard position- they had better have a top 4 finish in the Big Ten. Garcia is a scorer. What they need is teamwork, efficiency and depth.
 


They absolutely need guard play. The only way this roster ends up being good is if Christie is a Vincent Grier-level addition, Mitchell is similar to Peyton Willis and Carrington develops into Gabe (when the jump shot was hitting).

All of that needs to happen and those three need to stay healthy.
 


Did the players we lost to the portal come from a tougher conference initially than the ppl were bringing in now?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
They absolutely need guard play. The only way this roster ends up being good is if Christie is a Vincent Grier-level addition, Mitchell is similar to Peyton Willis and Carrington develops into Gabe (when the jump shot was hitting).

All of that needs to happen and those three need to stay healthy.
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Christie is probably very good but hoping he is a Grier is a bit much. Vincent was at least 20 years old, had a year of d-1 experience and was physically ready to play in the Big Ten. The more realistic hope is that one of the return from injury guys exceeds expectations and proves he can be mobile enough to play defense on the perimeter and maybe hit a shot out h there once in a while.
 

People seem to forget the injuries we dealt with last year. The only player who wasn't was Cooper, I think. I think we have a chance at 7,8 more wins this year if we have more depth in the back court. Hawkins would be HUGE in helping with that
 





.....tbe goal is another Weakling Wednesday matinee.
 

3399 said:
I am sorry, but as it stands right now, this is a bottom tier roster in a conference like the Big Ten. It lacks proven winning talent. It just does.
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Finally an insider posts something here! Since you have been attending practices/workouts can you let us know how Ihnen, Fox and Betts are looking. Is Payne growing his offensive gains? Can you give us an update on how the staff sees Mitchell, Carrington and Christie together? How is JOJ doing working on his game? Thanks for posting and I thank you in advance for filling us in.
 




USAF said:
.....tbe goal is another Weakling Wednesday matinee.
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Matinee? Actually the 14th seed usually plays in the evening game. Are your predicting a 13th place finish, you optimist?
 
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bga1 said:
Good grief. How many all conference players are there? If you go with three all conference teams then you have 15 such players. There are 14 Big Ten teams. Garcia was already third team, Payne has a shot at that level. If they added somebody that is also all conference at the guard position- they had better have a top 4 finish in the Big Ten. Garcia is a scorer. What they need is teamwork, efficiency and depth.
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yeah if they add two top 15 or HM all conference players they will be good. Two guys as you say that are as good as Garcia and Payne. Totally agree.
 

JZABR said:
People seem to forget the injuries we dealt with last year. The only player who wasn't was Cooper, I think. I think we have a chance at 7,8 more wins this year if we have more depth in the back court. Hawkins would be HUGE in helping with that
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Oh man...name your price I will definitely bet you on that one! Even the biggest optimists here aren't expecting that many more wins!

I also have a poker game next weekend and we need to fill a seat...you interested?
 

Dave H said:
Oh man...name your price I will definitely bet you on that one! Even the biggest optimists here aren't expecting that many more wins!

I also have a poker game next weekend and we need to fill a seat...you interested?
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Be careful on the bet. We don’t know the non con schedule yet. Cupcakes could add four or five right there.
 

Holy Man said:
Be careful on the bet. We don’t know the non con schedule yet. Cupcakes could add four or five right there.
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pretty sure posters are thinking BIG wins not total. But, I could be wrong. I'm 7 +/- 2 on BIG W's. Thinking Ben is gone if it's -2(5) and stays if it's +2(9). Have a better idea when we see the complete roster and the health of Ihnen and Fox.
 

Holy Man said:
Christie is probably very good but hoping he is a Grier is a bit much. Vincent was at least 20 years old, had a year of d-1 experience and was physically ready to play in the Big Ten. The more realistic hope is that one of the return from injury guys exceeds expectations and proves he can be mobile enough to play defense on the perimeter and maybe hit a shot out h there once in a while.
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I agree 100%. I didn't mean for anyone to think I thought that was a likely scenario.
 

Big Dawg said:
pretty sure posters are thinking BIG wins not total. But, I could be wrong. I'm 7 +/- 2 on BIG W's. Thinking Ben is gone if it's -2(5) and stays if it's +2(9). Have a better idea when we see the complete roster and the health of Ihnen and Fox.
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Honestly, I think 7+/- 2 is being generous with our current roster.

I think the o/u on Big 10 wins would probably be 5.
 


bga1 said:
Finally an insider posts something here! Since you have been attending practices/workouts can you let us know how Ihnen, Fox and Betts are looking. Is Payne growing his offensive gains? Can you give us an update on how the staff sees Mitchell, Carrington and Christie together? How is JOJ doing working on his game? Thanks for posting and I thank you in advance for filling us in.
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Gee, I don't know. You sound like you know. So why don't you fill us in on all of the secrets.
 

SelectionSunday said:
At this point 5 sounds about right. Don’t think I’d touch that bet, though!
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5 does not sound right at all at even money. People would hammer the under and likely win. The book would lose.

At even money 4 probably sounds right. 4.5 a little too high, 3.5 a little too low.
 

3399 said:
Gee, I don't know. You sound like you know. So why don't you fill us in on all of the secrets.
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There are posters who say they are sure our guys won't be any good- even the ones they have seen.
I am hopeful that they will be. See the difference?
 

bga1 said:
There are posters who say they are sure our guys won't be any good- even the ones they have seen.
I am hopeful that they will be. See the difference?
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You don't need to see practice to tell if this roster is good or not. Just like you didn't need to last summer, or the summer before.

This roster is terrible, likely the worst in the B1G again, and keeping Ben is just wasting another year of our lives.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Honestly, I think 7+/- 2 is being generous with our current roster.

I think the o/u on Big 10 wins would probably be 5.
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That's my preliminary O/U assuming we get a servicable (better than Samuels) G. If we get Hawkins we could squeak out the 7. Mind you that only puts us at 13th in the BIG assuming this years W/L totals in the BIG. NB at 12th was 9-11. To me it's going to be HOW they look and the other metrics. We could go 7-13 and look like crap. Then again we could go 5-15 and look much better than this past season. Either way I don't see us in the madness or even NIT. I just want to see some progression, no blow out losses and some development of some sort. I want to say one of 2 things when 23-24 is over: Ben is horrible and needs to go or Ben has shown he can coach and I want him to stay on as our coach. For some reason I feel we will land somewhere in the middle.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You don't need to see practice to tell if this roster is good or not. Just like you didn't need to last summer, or the summer before.

This roster is terrible, likely the worst in the B1G again, and keeping Ben is just wasting another year of our lives.
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I think they will be much better than you think. Maybe that's just hope. We'll see.
As to the previous two years- the first year I thought it was the worst roster I had ever seen assembled here. It wasn't a good year but they competed and gelled together better than I expected. That was a low talent, pretty well coached team. The second year, I thought we had a lot more talent but then came the loss of Fox and Ihnen. That team turned out to have a lot more raw talent than year one but they didn't look well coached.

We are close to putting together a roster with better balance and some of the talent has matured ( I assume). I think that there is reason for hope, reason for doubt and no reason for certainty on either side of the argument. I choose hope.
 

Big Dawg said:
That's my preliminary O/U assuming we get a servicable (better than Samuels) G. If we get Hawkins we could squeak out the 7. Mind you that only puts us at 13th in the BIG assuming this years W/L totals in the BIG. NB at 12th was 9-11. To me it's going to be HOW they look and the other metrics. We could go 7-13 and look like crap. Then again we could go 5-15 and look much better than this past season. Either way I don't see us in the madness or even NIT. I just want to see some progression, no blow out losses and some development of some sort. I want to say one of 2 things when 23-24 is over: Ben is horrible and needs to go or Ben has shown he can coach and I want him to stay on as our coach. For some reason I feel we will land somewhere in the middle.
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Of course it will land in between. That's the road kill space that we all expect to be in. I personally think even improvement on the disaster of 22-23 to say 7 in the B1G isn't enough to keep the current administration. As has been said, the fall recruiting could be a major tipping point either way.

I think standings last year were an anomaly with Purdue running away and the rest of the league, except the Gophers, ending up in a mashed blob. In many years, 9-11 would be closer to 10th or 9th, I think, or maybe even higher, depending on how dominant the top three are. Standings are often driven by how dominant the top is and how awful the bottom is.
 

Holy Man said:
Be careful on the bet. We don’t know the non con schedule yet. Cupcakes could add four or five right there.
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I assumed he meant Big Ten if he means non-con...I might still take it ;):eek::p
 

bga1 said:
I think they will be much better than you think. Maybe that's just hope. We'll see.
As to the previous two years- the first year I thought it was the worst roster I had ever seen assembled here. It wasn't a good year but they competed and gelled together better than I expected. That was a low talent, pretty well coached team. The second year, I thought we had a lot more talent but then came the loss of Fox and Ihnen. That team turned out to have a lot more raw talent than year one but they didn't look well coached.

We are close to putting together a roster with better balance and some of the talent has matured ( I assume). I think that there is reason for hope, reason for doubt and no reason for certainty on either side of the argument. I choose hope.
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I mean...going into year 3 shouldnt we be more than "close" to putting together a roster like that?
 

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