This roster is not bad IF.......

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Regarding Fall recruiting saving him, we got Asuma. Does anyone think any other top recruits are on the verge of committing? Why would you? Everyone knows his seat is in flames.
 

howeda7 said:
Regarding Fall recruiting saving him, we got Asuma. Does anyone think any other top recruits are on the verge of committing? Why would you? Everyone knows his seat is in flames.
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Therein lies the challenge. Upside is with no consequence transfers, much less of a risk for guys to come here or commit and reopen recruiting.
 

Holy Man said:
Therein lies the challenge. Upside is with no consequence transfers, much less of a risk for guys to come here or commit and reopen recruiting.
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This is the problem I spoke of when we hired him. He was a guy with no resume coaching a huge dig out situation. There was never much chance that he was going to catch momentum in the first two years. Then that third year recruiting class comes before you can show much. ISU with Otz got a coach who had done it and a rabid fan base going for him. Ben had none of that. We don't know that he can't coach, we just know that he doesn't have the proven results to show people.

The hope is that the players he gets this spring and fall are optimistic that this is going to be a much better squad and communicate that to prospective recruits. They are going to have to be Ben's ambassadors. Do they like playing for him? Well ....we do know this, most of last year's beat up roster including 3 of the 4 promising freshmen stayed on board.
 

bga1 said:
This is the problem I spoke of when we hired him. He was a guy with no resume coaching a huge dig out situation. There was never much chance that he was going to catch momentum in the first two years. Then that third year recruiting class comes before you can show much. ISU with Otz got a coach who had done it and a rabid fan base going for him. Ben had none of that. We don't know that he can't coach, we just know that he doesn't have the proven results to show people.

The hope is that the players he gets this spring and fall are optimistic that this is going to be a much better squad and communicate that to prospective recruits. They are going to have to be Ben's ambassadors. Do they like playing for him? Well ....we do know this, most of last year's beat up roster including 3 of the 4 promising freshmen stayed on board.
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One friendly amendment. Current roster needs to be ambassadors to future recruits. As far as building, the loss of Henley might be the most crucial. He took a chance on Ben from California, got playing time, was a guy identified by the staff before other power 5’s and improved over the season. He had a story to tell and he’s telling it in Chicago and not here. It’s really too bad. Battle had one more shot at post season success and is more understandable.
 

bga1 said:
I think they will be much better than you think. Maybe that's just hope. We'll see.
As to the previous two years- the first year I thought it was the worst roster I had ever seen assembled here. It wasn't a good year but they competed and gelled together better than I expected. That was a low talent, pretty well coached team. The second year, I thought we had a lot more talent but then came the loss of Fox and Ihnen. That team turned out to have a lot more raw talent than year one but they didn't look well coached.

We are close to putting together a roster with better balance and some of the talent has matured ( I assume). I think that there is reason for hope, reason for doubt and no reason for certainty on either side of the argument. I choose hope.
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This is just more non-sensical hope. The 'worst roster you had ever seen assembled here' was the best roster Ben has had to date. It was better than last year's roster and right now this year's roster is even worse. 'Coaching' looked better the first year because they had experienced guards who knew how to play.

Reality is the coaching has been terrible both years. They were still blown out consistently in year 1, and they were blown out even more last year.

You don't have to believe me, but we are going to get little to nothing out of Fox. Ihnen regressed in year 2, scoring 2.8 ppg, on 32% on FG and 22% on 3pt. That was with 2 good knees, now he's missed two years and has 2 bad knees. He's a non-factor.

Mitchell is a Cooper replacement. Christie is a Henley replacement. If Hawkins commits, he's only 5'11" 152 lbs and played for a 16 seed that was throttled by Kansas. Yeah he's better than Samuels, but Samuels had no business being on a B1G roster. And neither does Jack Wilson.

Battle was our 2nd best player and we don't have a replacement for him. This roster is still a complete joke. The people who keep defending this disaster have forgotten what a competent B1G roster is supposed to be. It is so sad.
 


Holy Man said:
One friendly amendment. Current roster needs to be ambassadors to future recruits.
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Yep- 100% I worded that poorly.
Holy Man said:
As far as building, the loss of Henley might be the most crucial. He took a chance on Ben from California, got playing time, was a guy identified by the staff before other power 5’s and improved over the season. He had a story to tell and he’s telling it in Chicago and not here. It’s really too bad. Battle had one more shot at post season success and is more understandable.
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Henley was a loss. I would be more excited if he were still here.
 

Holy Man said:
Therein lies the challenge. Upside is with no consequence transfers, much less of a risk for guys to come here or commit and reopen recruiting.
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It wouldn't be a transfer for an incoming freshman though. They would have to ask for release like Evans.
 


Rockraven said:
Henley would have been good as depth this year.
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He would have started without doubt. This Betts being the next Clay Thompson is wishful thinking at this point Hopefully he will be a good player.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
This is just more non-sensical hope. The 'worst roster you had ever seen assembled here' was the best roster Ben has had to date. It was better than last year's roster and right now this year's roster is even worse. 'Coaching' looked better the first year because they had experienced guards who knew how to play.

Reality is the coaching has been terrible both years. They were still blown out consistently in year 1, and they were blown out even more last year.

You don't have to believe me, but we are going to get little to nothing out of Fox. Ihnen regressed in year 2, scoring 2.8 ppg, on 32% on FG and 22% on 3pt. That was with 2 good knees, now he's missed two years and has 2 bad knees. He's a non-factor.

Mitchell is a Cooper replacement. Christie is a Henley replacement. If Hawkins commits, he's only 5'11" 152 lbs and played for a 16 seed that was throttled by Kansas. Yeah he's better than Samuels, but Samuels had no business being on a B1G roster. And neither does Jack Wilson.

Battle was our 2nd best player and we don't have a replacement for him. This roster is still a complete joke. The people who keep defending this disaster have forgotten what a competent B1G roster is supposed to be. It is so sad.
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Of course, despite your apparent certainty, you don’t actually know whether Mitchell, Christie, & Hawkins(?) will outperform Cooper, Henley, & Samuels, nor whether Fox and/or Ihnen will be healthy, nor whether Battle will be directly replaced. Obviously, you believe not. That is not the same as knowing. The only “sad” part is that so many posters fail to appreciate the difference.
 


The best hope I would think is Garcia and Payne become a dominating 1-2 punch (Top 3 Big Pairing in the Big 10).

If we can just get capable guards that are actually able to get them the ball and make open shots, there's definitely potential.

Unfortunately we continue to wait to see if those guards come. Hoping we can lock down the Howard kid and then another at his level or above.

There are still plenty of kids looking for a home. Benefits of 1000-2000 kids in the portal is that we can swing and miss quite a few times and still have a chance.
 




Dave H said:
Oh man...name your price I will definitely bet you on that one! Even the biggest optimists here aren't expecting that many more wins!

I also have a poker game next weekend and we need to fill a seat...you interested?
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Mayhaps....IF we have adequate depth and we have some players develop, Betts, JOJ, Carrington and Payne...that increase is probably the best case scenario. Am I expecting that? No. Am I hoping for that? Yes and them some.
 


I think my largest concern is missing a guy with scorer’s mentality amongst the returnees. I hear Betts and suspect Christie, both, fit that bill to some degree.

However, I’d never count that as reliable contribution until said players have been seasoned.

Wish we could lure jordan dingle or even Shemari Allen. I’d feel pretty good if we got just 1 experienced guy that can light it up from the back court. That would solidify it. Even the back up ball handler is gravy in comparison.
 


Holy Man said:
What is “it?”
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I think he decided to complete the sentence of the OP

"This roster is not bad.........if it gets significantly better." Actually a pretty good quip by Bad.
 

bga1 said:
I think he decided to complete the sentence of the OP

"This roster is not bad.........if it gets significantly better." Actually a pretty good quip by Bad.
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That was such a long time ago, how are we supposed to make the connection? 🤔
 

Some guy said:
5 does not sound right at all at even money. People would hammer the under and likely win. The book would lose.

At even money 4 probably sounds right. 4.5 a little too high, 3.5 a little too low.
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There should be an official poll created about 1 week prior to the 2 early B10 conference games, that way we can see how the team plays in its early non-conference (albeit creampuff schedule).
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
There should be an official poll created about 1 week prior to the 2 early B10 conference games, that way we can see how the team plays in its early non-conference (albeit creampuff schedule).
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What? Really? Ok. Go ahead.
 

Classof 66 said:
The "This roster is not bad" thread needs a refresh. Like: This roster is not bad IF....

1. Fox is a major key. How is his rehab? Is he dunking like a madman as he was after his first knee surgery when he was ramping up - but then got knocked down by his second knee surgery. Love his athleticism and his energy and his leadership. He has gone quiet this time around. Maybe he just wants to prove it on the floor.

2. Similar for Ihnen but rehab not as much a worry. Has he really taken a big step?

3. Is Mike Mitchell an impact player? Cooper had his moments but was not an impact player at Big Ten level. Lacked speed and athleticism. Mitchell has more of both.

4. Will Carrington be healthy? Can he be a good back-up point guard and push Mitchell? Being healthy fixes a lot that held him back a little. There is lot to like. But becoming an elite shooter would be huge!

5. Is Christie an All Big Ten Freshman - with immediate impact?

6. Is Erick Reader vastly underrated? I have seen him play and develop for four years. Better every year. Quite skilled. Small school but some good opponents. Played AAU for Coach Larry Suggs. (of "guards come in all sizes fame" for developing Chet Holmgren - not to mention Jalen). He is a good friend of Issac Asuma and played AAU with him on a Suggs team. He is excited about playing with Asuma at the U. (and importantly Asuma is excited about playing with him at the U). He may carve out a much bigger role in Gopher basketball than the typical preferred walk-on. But not likely this year.

7. Will Dawson Garcia (great player) be even better with a second year in one place?

8. Will Payne (great player) take a step like Oturo did? That would be awesome. Can he be just as impactful with fewer fouls. That can happen with experience.

9. Can OJO (super contributor) add a tiny bit more control and harness the energy fully? He has to take over some of Henley's fearless attacking and getting to rim when opportunity opens up. (Henley with a year of experience could have been a really good piece.)

10. Did Betts get more out of a development red shirt than another year of high school. Is he shovel ready? Is he an elite shooter?

11. Is Wilson a good guy who adds team energy. He has size and strength and has a few years of college basketball and college football under his belt. He has re-focused on basketball for about a full year at this point. He could be a mentor and a role model for perseverance if nothing else. And maybe a banger for sparse minutes in appropriate situations.

12. Howdoes the overall team dynamic develop, including players and coaching staff? They all have a lot to prove. Can they put it together and forge a team that is stronger than the individual pieces. Are there players who can make other players better? Fox did that at Augustana for sure. Mitchell almost has to do that to have a really good team. Others have possibilities, especially Garcia. Also Payne. Maybe Christie but that is a lot to ask of a true freshman. Maybe Carrington.

Anyway, it is not all bleak.
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You close your 👀
 


Captain Willard said:
Of course, despite your apparent certainty, you don’t actually know whether Mitchell, Christie, & Hawkins(?) will outperform Cooper, Henley, & Samuels, nor whether Fox and/or Ihnen will be healthy, nor whether Battle will be directly replaced. Obviously, you believe not. That is not the same as knowing. The only “sad” part is that so many posters fail to appreciate the difference.
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You can pretend all you want but the truth is it is far more likely he is right than all of you are. You guys are banking on winning a big hand with 7-2 unsuited and a rainbow flop. Sure it could happen but you need everything to break right for it to do so and even then it still might not.

It isn't like we were close last year and "a little seasoning and experience" was going to turn the whole thing around. It was one of the worst seasons this school has ever had. And that roster hasn't changed all that much in a positive way. (and no 2 guys coming off two straight missed seasons due to major injuries is not a positive so can we all just stop with that)

Look none of us can say for certain that the sun will rise tomorrow, but we can reasonably be certain that it will. What I would bet hard cash on right now is, if this squad was someone else's problem none of you would be going "man, that team could make a huge jump next year" and really believe it. You are all letting your Gopher fandom blind you to what is painfully obvious. That is why the goalposts keep moving every time some player from University of Joe Blow State chooses to go elsewhere even though they were going to somehow be the savior. The team is a disaster right now...maybe that changes but the odds are not in your favor.
 



Dave H said:
You can pretend all you want but the truth is it is far more likely he is right than all of you are. You guys are banking on winning a big hand with 7-2 unsuited and a rainbow flop. Sure it could happen but you need everything to break right for it to do so and even then it still might not.

It isn't like we were close last year and "a little seasoning and experience" was going to turn the whole thing around. It was one of the worst seasons this school has ever had. And that roster hasn't changed all that much in a positive way. (and no 2 guys coming off two straight missed seasons due to major injuries is not a positive so can we all just stop with that)

Look none of us can say for certain that the sun will rise tomorrow, but we can reasonably be certain that it will. What I would bet hard cash on right now is, if this squad was someone else's problem none of you would be going "man, that team could make a huge jump next year" and really believe it. You are all letting your Gopher fandom blind you to what is painfully obvious. That is why the goalposts keep moving every time some player from University of Joe Blow State chooses to go elsewhere even though they were going to somehow be the savior. The team is a disaster right now...maybe that changes but the odds are not in your favor.
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Wow, you must own a metaphor blender to create that kind of cocktail. But who are "all of you" and "you guys"? Everyone you perceive as not yet accepting your views? 'Cause I'm not that big of a Gophers fan. Also, I can't think of any goalposts I've moved, metaphorically or otherwise. And the words "huge jump" have never come out of my mouth, at least not with reference to men's basketball. I understand that you choose to project all possible outcomes as negative, that you probably think CBJ should not have been hired, and that you certainly think he is a poor coach. You have every right to do so, and may be correct on all counts. Unfortunately, repeating your positions more loudly doesn't make them more persuasive. Some people choose to acknowledge what they don't know and assess the evidence as it accumulates. I am one of those, but speaking only for myself. Based on the circumstances of which I'm aware, I don't think Ben Johnson has had a genuine chance to prove himself. And it is not at all necessary that you agree.
 

Our guards are going to need to be good getting ball onto Betts hands.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
There should be an official poll created about 1 week prior to the 2 early B10 conference games, that way we can see how the team plays in its early non-conference (albeit creampuff schedule).
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3 non conference games have been announced
 

bga1 said:
3 non conference games have been announced
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Dude, stop being delusional. We didn't back out of Vegas, immediately schedule Ball State and USC Upstate, to schedule anything competent. Our OOC schedule is going to be a massive joke. Most teams worth a shit have already committed to a tournament like the one we just bitched out on.
 

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