This is great for recruiting/the U


By your reasoning if I were to open an entertainment type venue(with proper food and liquor licenses) and choose to make one of the rooms alcohol free, I would be in violation of the law. Would the vendor, the purveyor/supplier, the employee, the customer or the government sue me? Would I be in violation for not selling in the kitchen or janitor closet?
 

The restraint is the location of where the beer would be sold and who would therefore be allowed to buy the product (access restriction), all at a location that is common (TCF) and the distribution possible for all and the demand self evident (multiple vendor locations). If I were a vendor, I would be totally pissed off that I could not be able to sell when other vendors were able to sell. Therefore, there is a restraint of trade. The ticket has less to do with the restraint, but is part of the evidence that a restraint was being applied to the potential buyers that the vendors would want to sell to. This is absolutely a restraint of trade issue, a human rights issue, and clearly very poor marketing and policy from the U, that is if they ever tried to carry out there plan and actually sold beer only in the tier 3 seating area concessions.

The restraint is two way. The buyers are being restricted beyond legal requirements of age; and, the sellers would be restricted beyond what an effective plan distribution system would normally constrain (such as, only 1 vendor for pizza, but the pizza vendor can sell the same cola beverages as every other vendor [by single bid] and every tier would have a pizza vendor.) The beer vendor would not be given the same kind of access rights as the pizza or pop vendors under the U distribution plan. That is the restraint. It is location. Why would the beer vendor get access only to 1/5 of their potential customer base? The human rights aspect is a demonstration that 4/5 of potential customers would be denied access to the vendor. The vendor would be the plaintiff and the U the unfortunate defendant. So, any comparisons to car models and moving up to a higher ticket price to buy beer is impossible for all 4/5 of potential buyers. There simply are not enough seats for potential demand. The idiots that say the bill to serve beer in the entire stadium to every potential patron is unconstitutional are legal idiots. It is constitutionally defensible because it defends access to all buyers and sellers. The UCC is paramount to any potential lawsuits, and the public could enjoin the plaintiff with human rights. This is a slam dunk, no brainer. The U was wrong from the start and really ought to think through the problem the next time it wants to distribute beer at TCF. If I were a beer seller, I would be the one bringing the lawsuit to federal court. I would be the one stating that other vendors are able to sell their goods to all patrons and my product was unfairly restricted from co-marketing at other vendor locations.

Lots of nonsense here.

What does Aramark being pissed (assuming they actually are pissed) have anything to do with it? They contract with the U to provide services. The U tells them how and where they want the services provided as part of that contract. It is the U's facility. Restraint of trade tends to depend on the reasonableness of the restriction. Given the fact that this sort of restriction is present EVERYWHERE in sports (Pro sports limit food service with some food available to premium seat holders but not the general seats and college sports do it with booze) it looks to me like it is a pretty reasonable restriction. Otherwise, I suspect at least one of these "pissed off" food service vendors might have made a stink by now. Then there is my next point.

Alcohol is a commodity. People selling a commodity can do so how and where they please. They cannot deny anyone access to their public place of business based on things like race or age (ya know, REAL protected classes under the law) but there is nothing that says they can't require you to pay more to enter certain parts of the facility.

If the owner of the business chooses, they can sell certain items in the premium sections. This is nothing new. The buyers at TCF are not being restricted beyond the legal requirement of age. They are being restricted by their choice not to spend additional money to secure access to the premium sections. Pro sports do it with food but not booze. Are the Twins violating my human rights when they sell food in the Metropolitan and Legends clubs that I can't buy on the concourse?

And then there is the whole business of you using the words human rights. These have specific legal meanings, none of which apply to your desire to drink beer. Can you show me any instance where the State of Minnesota or the federal government has listed drinking beer as basic human right? I'd love to see it.

The fact that there are limited number of seats in the premium sections is also a bogus argument. Now you're claiming it is illegal for the U to restrict the supply of a commodity. You say this is why car comparisons aren't valid. But what about the ultra high class super cars? Sometimes only 200 are made. If I have the money but I can't buy one because they only made 200 have my human rights been violated? Or what about a popular restaurant? Have my human rights been violated because the limited number of tables prevent me from being sat on a busy Friday night? Sure, maybe I can eat at the bar but what happens when my favorite meal is only served in the dining room? Have my human rights been violated?

There is nothing that says that everyone who wants to buy a product should have access to it. If that were true then anyone who can't get a seat in TCF for a sold out game would have the right to sue. The U has the right to serve products when and where they choose so long as the only restriction to the public's access is their ability to pay or the availability of the premium seating.
 

By your reasoning if I were to open an entertainment type venue(with proper food and liquor licenses) and choose to make one of the rooms alcohol free, I would be in violation of the law. Would the vendor, the purveyor/supplier, the employee, the customer or the government sue me? Would I be in violation for not selling in the kitchen or janitor closet?

Actually, to get even more sport specific, what he's claiming is that its illegal for pro stadiums to have beer free "family sections". Yet I don't see the legislature going after the Twins. Hmmmmm.....
 

By your reasoning if I were to open an entertainment type venue(with proper food and liquor licenses) and choose to make one of the rooms alcohol free, I would be in violation of the law. Would the vendor, the purveyor/supplier, the employee, the customer or the government sue me? Would I be in violation for not selling in the kitchen or janitor closet?

Merry Christmas.
 

It is not in violation of Minnesota's UCC, nor of Federal UCC, and is not in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1866. None of these things restrict making some things only available on a premium tier. It's not discriminatory, no one is restricted from buying the package which includes these benefits. If I have cable TV, there are some channels which are only available if I purchase a premium tier. If the U restricted certain groups of people from buying into the premium tier, this would be a problem.

Very few colleges allow alcohol to be served in general seating, but many allow alcohol to be served in the suites. This hasn't been found to be illegal.
 


It is not in violation of Minnesota's UCC, nor of Federal UCC, and is not in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1866. None of these things restrict making some things only available on a premium tier. It's not discriminatory, no one is restricted from buying the package which includes these benefits. If I have cable TV, there are some channels which are only available if I purchase a premium tier. If the U restricted certain groups of people from buying into the premium tier, this would be a problem.

I don't think he gets the concept probably because he thinks alcohol is a human right.
 

It is not in violation of Minnesota's UCC, nor of Federal UCC, and is not in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1866. None of these things restrict making some things only available on a premium tier. It's not discriminatory, no one is restricted from buying the package which includes these benefits. If I have cable TV, there are some channels which are only available if I purchase a premium tier. If the U restricted certain groups of people from buying into the premium tier, this would be a problem.

Very few colleges allow alcohol to be served in general seating, but many allow alcohol to be served in the suites. This hasn't been found to be illegal.

TITCR.

According to my lawyer wife, anyway. She became visibly upset when I read Oneoldgopher's interpretation of the UCC and CRA1866. Now I have a grumpy wife to deal with.
 

Actually, to get even more sport specific, what he's claiming is that its illegal for pro stadiums to have beer free "family sections". Yet I don't see the legislature going after the Twins. Hmmmmm.....

Actually, what I am saying is that access must be made. Let's say they ban hotdogs in a section. Nobody will be served hotdogs in section 210. That does not preclude Dad from getting up, going to the concourse eating his hotdog in the concourse and returning to his seat. The restricted location is allowable, but the act of denying what is allowed for others, eating hotdogs, can not be applied to places outside of the restricted area because other patrons have the right to buy hotdogs. Everybody has the right to buy hotdogs. Now, restricting the sale to only certain buyers who must buy more expensive seats is a restriction not only of location restrictions, but purchase tie ins that are not required of everybody for any other products, like hotdogs.
 

I have a feeling that you know you are wrong and just enjoy stringing this out, but again, no one is infringing on your right to buy a suite.
 




Actually, what I am saying is that access must be made. Let's say they ban hotdogs in a section. Nobody will be served hotdogs in section 210. That does not preclude Dad from getting up, going to the concourse eating his hotdog in the concourse and returning to his seat. The restricted location is allowable, but the act of denying what is allowed for others, eating hotdogs, can not be applied to places outside of the restricted area because other patrons have the right to buy hotdogs. Everybody has the right to buy hotdogs. Now, restricting the sale to only certain buyers who must buy more expensive seats is a restriction not only of location restrictions, but purchase tie ins that are not required of everybody for any other products, like hotdogs.

But they do this already. They have foods sold in the premium areas that isn't served in the concourses.
 


Wow, there's a whole lot of wrong in that post.

I think this guy has slowly convinced himself that he's actually correct.
 



Wow, there's a whole lot of wrong in that post.

I think this guy has slowly convinced himself that he's actually correct.

I think his Marxist brain waves have hindered his ability to grasp pure logic or any common sense.
 

The stadium is a restricted access area. Only ticket buyers may enjoy the fruits of the game live. If I am the very last ticket buyer and the last seat available to me is not located in the premium/ beer available area, then under the U's original plan to distribute beer sales, I am SOL.
Yep. Them’s the breaks.
What you ignorant intelligentcia fail to recognize is that there is a remedy that fulfills access and allows the locative restriction that the U wants. It is called an upgrade. You can attach an upgrade to any ticket-holder in the stadium, that allows them access to the 3rd tier areas where beer must be sold and consumed. The U was told this under the State statute. The U refused.
So I’m going to assume that the upgrade would cost more money (otherwise it wouldn’t be an upgrade). Oddly enough, you are endorsing that the U limit access to a product based on money. Which is what they are doing now. Weird…And don’t start up with the “but there aren’t enough seats for everyone in the premium section” nonsense. There aren’t enough first class seats on a plane either. And that “screws” all the people in coach from all the perks that the “fat cats” get. Yet this is legal. What is the difference again? You’ve never explained it. Moving on.
The State can regulate how a product is distributed and why restrictions can or cannot be made to public offers. That is the nature of the UCC, of which the state and its citizens have a clear interest. Beer for sale by the U cannot restrict the sale to only one class of ticket holder, and aw shucks, the U is not the State and must comply with the legal definition for what is a market and what is not.
Restricting the sale of items to one class of ticket holder happens all the time. It happens at TCF with beer. It happens at Target Field, the Dome, the X, etc with food. It happens on planes. It happens in clubs. It is not illegal in all these other places for all sorts of other commodities. But beer? Well now you’ve done it!!! You’ve never refuted any of these other examples btw.
As I have clearly demonstrated, the U can abide by the new law and apply the restrictions it wants in terms of premiums and consumption and distribution locations. But, the previous plan failed to include the entire market the opportunity to access the product -- beer. I have also demonstrated other options as applied by a more inclusive principle of the law.
As I’ve mentioned over and over, there are a ridiculous number of examples where not all patrons can access or purchase the same goods at stadiums, restaurants, clubs, planes, etc. And all the other examples are legal. Just not the one you care about I guess.
So, I have demonstrated two courses of action, one a more populist approach: don't charge extra, just have it available to all. I have also demonstrated where harm is occurring and how it occurs (last ticket buyer, limited tickets, limited locations, access restrictions, etc.) I have demonstrated what level of harm is done (Premium guy laughs and drinks his beer; cheapo cries and has no opportunity to gain the chance to buy the beer).
The only harm you’ve demonstrated is that not being able to buy a beer pisses you off. You haven’t established anything from a legal perspective. Unless you’re willing to stipulate that the state overlooks harm on a daily basis in a variety of industries but finally got their act together here. I’d still think you’re wrong, but at least your position would start to make sense.
The second approach, the one where the U keeps its restrictions, I have demonstrated that the U can comply with its original plan and restrict access, location, and keep its ticket premium. What the U has failed to offer is a ticket upgrade to allow access for all ticket holders to the beer.
Which they don’t have to do.
That is where the U has failed to accommodate all its guests. By failing to make available that upgrade universally, is where the U has denied the sale of the item, discriminated against 4/5ths of its patrons, and has been rather stupid about what it can do and shows how elitist its intent really is. And once again, no matter how unpopular many may perceive my past remarks as being incorrect, interpreted various laws, etc., well, case law moves in mysterious ways when presented with new avenues. I did not base my argument on existing case law regarding CRA1866, I was presenting it in how I would apply it to TCF, and not just CRA 1866! And, in offering how I would pursue it if asked by a patron, a vendor, a supplier, etc. All three of these would get screwed by the U under their first plan -- the plan made illegal under the special law requiring beer sales be made available to all the ticket holders.
Lots of blah, blah, blah here. You still have explained how and why the state ignores all the blatant discrimination that happens all the time (and would still be happening at TCF regarding food sales even if beer was sold everywhere). Or why the state never acted to prevent discrimination for the years and years that beer was only sold to the “elites” at The Barn or Mariucci. Or why they allowed the discriminatory plan to proceed for 2 years after being informed at the beginning of the process how the U was going to sell booze (Seriously...the Legislature knew the plan in advance. They only got all populist when there was a newspaper article about it). Or why no other state in the Big Ten (and likely the country) seems to think that this is some form of discrimination for their patrons.

Even in Wisconsin, where no one will show up to a church potluck if there isn’t beer, doesn’t think that UW is discriminating against anyone. And you have to understand, UW is NOT popular with conservative legislators here. And if any state likes to think of beer as a right it is Wisky. Yet no conservative legislator has bothered to introduce legislation to change the setup here. Is it because WI is a backwater state that allows discrimination everywhere? Or maybe, just maybe, its because this isn’t discrimination.
I don't deny the U had rights to make limitations to its control of sales. What I argued is that it was artificially, deliberately discriminating against the interests of its patrons, its vendors and its suppliers -- and how embarrassing is that! The U had policy remedies and chose to bury its head in the sand that there were not remedies available to it, that still offered control, and would allow 100% of the eligible buyers a chance to be accommodated.
Your upgrade option also artificially and deliberately discriminates against the interest of its patrons, vendors, and suppliers (at least by the standards you are trying to set). I’d also note that if this were such discrimination against vendors and suppliers I would think they’d have banded together to do something about it by now. Or maybe they recognize that the U has the right to limit the sale of alcohol? Hmmm…as for embarrassing or ignoring of remedies. I don’t think holding fast with the standard practice in the Big Ten and most of the nation is embarrassing. And you better believe they ignored remedies. Because they felt that they ran counter to what was in the University’s best interest. We can all agree or disagree with that. But it’s the U’s call to make.
And by showing the remedies to you, I have demonstrated how the law is not only constitutional because it harms nobody. The U can not claim harm if the remedy clearly complies with their original access restriction, which remedy 2 shows. In fact, remedy 2 seems a clear winner for everybody except the premium section ticket holders who might have to share a space they thought would always be restricted to just their ticket class. Well, too f-ing bad for them.
The U’s decision also harms no one. You’ve shown why you think it is harmful (I and many others can’t drink beer) but haven’t explained why a multitude of other situations/examples that create the same kind of harm (by your definition) are allowed to exist. You then go on to make this into some big “class” thing which pretty much sums up why I think this is all pandering on the part of the Legislature.
Why the U decided to pull the plug on beer sales for all is beyond me. They were frozen in their thinking, decided their were no remedies (like all posters against me on GH did), and declared the ban on beer because no accommodation could be made. Well, folks, the U failed to think through the problem, got caught with their undies in a bunch, and makes the U look less than serious about how it thinks through problems with their own policies.
So they’re frozen in their thinking. That is their right as the leaders of the University. Get them to change their mind if you don’t like it. Pissing people off and having you think they look foolish doesn’t have any relation to whether they have the right to make the decision. They have the right to make decisions that piss us off. We have the right to contact them and express our displeasure. The Legislature does not have the right to infringe upon the Regents’ decision making power.
My last word on this is the U looks foolish to most people outside this state, including recruits, because it becomes intolerant of those who object to their short sightedness.
So wait…people in other states, whose Universities have the same policy, are going to A) know about this issue (unlikely) and B) think that the U is the foolish one? Really? This is your argument? And recruits? Do you honestly think a 16-18 year old kids gives s**t whether you or I can drink beer while he plays? Good grief…
My recommendation to the U is that they revisit the beer issue. They keep their desire to restrict where and how it is sold, but that it comply with the statute and use a policy of ticket upgrades to allow access to the product so that all might enjoy the beverage of their choice. My recommendation to GH is to collectively pull your heads back into the sunshine and have one with me. I know I will enjoy a good brew with just about any ignoramus. I drink maybe twice a year, if that, but I do drink. And frankly, I want to do so at the Bank.
My recommendation is that you should try to explain to explain why I can come up with a multitude of counterexamples that fit your definition of harm yet are legal. Or you can keep writing novels that ignore challenges to your primary assertions.
 

The stadium is a restricted access area. Only ticket buyers may enjoy the fruits of the game live. If I am the very last ticket buyer and the last seat available to me is not located in the premium/ beer available area, then under the U's original plan to distribute beer sales, I am SOL. What the Minnesota TCF beer act states is that all ticket holders should be allowed to gain access to this area. The U, of course did not want this to occur, because it wanted the extra revenue that the cheap seats didn't provide. What you ignorant intelligentcia fail to recognize is that there is a remedy that fulfills access and allows the locative restriction that the U wants. It is called an upgrade. You can attach an upgrade to any ticket-holder in the stadium, that allows them access to the 3rd tier areas where beer must be sold and consumed. The U was told this under the State statute. The U refused. The State can regulate how a product is distributed and why restrictions can or cannot be made to public offers. That is the nature of the UCC, of which the state and its citizens have a clear interest. Beer for sale by the U cannot restrict the sale to only one class of ticket holder, and aw shucks, the U is not the State and must comply with the legal definition for what is a market and what is not. As I have clearly demonstrated, the U can abide by the new law and apply the restrictions it wants in terms of premiums and consumption and distribution locations. But, the previous plan failed to include the entire market the opportunity to access the product -- beer. I have also demonstrated other options as applied by a more inclusive principle of the law. So, I have demonstrated two courses of action, one a more populist approach: don't charge extra, just have it available to all. I have also demonstrated where harm is occurring and how it occurs (last ticket buyer, limited tickets, limited locations, access restrictions, etc.) I have demonstrated what level of harm is done (Premium guy laughs and drinks his beer; cheapo cries and has no opportunity to gain the chance to buy the beer). The second approach, the one where the U keeps its restrictions, I have demonstrated that the U can comply with its original plan and restrict access, location, and keep its ticket premium. What the U has failed to offer is a ticket upgrade to allow access for all ticket holders to the beer. That is where the U has failed to accommodate all its guests. By failing to make available that upgrade universally, is where the U has denied the sale of the item, discriminated against 4/5ths of its patrons, and has been rather stupid about what it can do and shows how elitist its intent really is. And once again, no matter how unpopular many may perceive my past remarks as being incorrect, interpreted various laws, etc., well, case law moves in mysterious ways when presented with new avenues. I did not base my argument on existing case law regarding CRA1866, I was presenting it in how I would apply it to TCF, and not just CRA 1866! And, in offering how I would pursue it if asked by a patron, a vendor, a supplier, etc. All three of these would get screwed by the U under their first plan -- the plan made illegal under the special law requiring beer sales be made available to all the ticket holders. I don't deny the U had rights to make limitations to its control of sales. What I argued is that it was artificially, deliberately discriminating against the interests of its patrons, its vendors and its suppliers -- and how embarrassing is that! The U had policy remedies and chose to bury its head in the sand that there were not remedies available to it, that still offered control, and would allow 100% of the eligible buyers a chance to be accommodated.

And by showing the remedies to you, I have demonstrated how the law is not only constitutional because it harms nobody. The U can not claim harm if the remedy clearly complies with their original access restriction, which remedy 2 shows. In fact, remedy 2 seems a clear winner for everybody except the premium section ticket holders who might have to share a space they thought would always be restricted to just their ticket class. Well, too f-ing bad for them.

The real argument against access is the tier 3 folks don't want to see the dirty masses invading their space. Well, the U can fix that too. Move the beer to the general concourse and have the premium seat holders access the beer there.

Why the U decided to pull the plug on beer sales for all is beyond me. They were frozen in their thinking, decided their were no remedies (like all posters against me on GH did), and declared the ban on beer because no accommodation could be made. Well, folks, the U failed to think through the problem, got caught with their undies in a bunch, and makes the U look less than serious about how it thinks through problems with their own policies.

My last word on this is the U looks foolish to most people outside this state, including recruits, because it becomes intolerant of those who object to their short sightedness.

My recommendation to the U is that they revisit the beer issue. They keep their desire to restrict where and how it is sold, but that it comply with the statute and use a policy of ticket upgrades to allow access to the product so that all might enjoy the beverage of their choice. My recommendation to GH is to collectively pull your heads back into the sunshine and have one with me. I know I will enjoy a good brew with just about any ignoramus. I drink maybe twice a year, if that, but I do drink. And frankly, I want to do so at the Bank.

After reading all the things that are wrong in this post, the thing that irked me the most is the misspelling in your signature.
 

My only question is..is OneOldGopher actually Rep. Rukavina? He's actually presented a stronger, though still ridiculous, case then Rukavina ever did. The fact that so many of his fellow leglislators went along is pathetic. But 'Beer for one, Beer for all' sounds good. Nevermind that you just screwed the state's flagship University out of millions of dollars for no reason whatsoever.
 

The fundamental misunderstanding of the law has been covered pretty well, it's not illegal to have products available on different tiers, and the state constitution gives the U autonomy, the state legislature overstepped it's authority on this. If the U were to challenge this in court, the U would have an easy case. I suspect the reason they haven't challenged it is concern about retaliation from the legislature over funding. Is the U the only entity that could make a court challenge?

But there's the idea that the U's alcohol policy makes the U look foolish really displays ignorance. The overwhelming majority of universities either do not allow alcohol to be served at all, or if they do, only allow it in the suites. Only a very small number of schools allow alcohol to be served in general seating. The only reason anyone would think it is normal to have alcohol served in general seating is because the Metrodome (not the U) allowed alcohol to be served in general seating. The U had no control over what was served in the Dome, and the U didn't get the concessions revenue.
 



Yep, I'm wrong.

Yep. Pretty much. If you aren't willing to honestly engage the people that disagree with you its pretty hard to take you seriously. I've raised some counterpoints and asked for your explanation. Your response throughout the thread has been to dodge or ignore. I'll be pleasantly surprised if you advance beyond those tactics.
 


Yep. Pretty much. If you aren't willing to honestly engage the people that disagree with you its pretty hard to take you seriously. I've raised some counterpoints and asked for your explanation. Your response throughout the thread has been to dodge or ignore. I'll be pleasantly surprised if you advance beyond those tactics.

Yeah. I lost all credibility with myself, the GH, and with all reasonalble people.

Tactics, yeah. Got lost in what I only have a vague clue about.

Problem is simple, I should have made only a moral argument. Kept to what I know to be true for me.

The other problem is the U. It really needs to review why its policy on liquor sales is inconsistently applied. They don't want you to know they have no beer exclusions at other non sporting venues. Seems there is two standards being applied. Not that that is a reason to think that the sports fan is treated any differently than the Bell Museum crowd or Morril Hall.
 

Yeah. I lost all credibility with myself, the GH, and with all reasonalble people.

Tactics, yeah. Got lost in what I only have a vague clue about.

Problem is simple, I should have made only a moral argument. Kept to what I know to be true for me.

The other problem is the U. It really needs to review why its policy on liquor sales is inconsistently applied. They don't want you to know they have no beer exclusions at other non sporting venues. Seems there is two standards being applied. Not that that is a reason to think that the sports fan is treated any differently than the Bell Museum crowd or Morril Hall.

Hey, you have actually made a rational point. This was brought up by one of the 3 or 4 House members who were actually paying attention when this was debated (the rest were just nudged awake and pressed whatever button they were told.) Why is beer and wine allowed in some of the other venues on campus but not the football stadium? The somewhat lame excuse was that those venues are much smaller and it's much easier to control so as not to accidently serve people who are underage, etc. Rep. Kahn also had the brilliance to point out that crowds who attend concerts and art exhibits are much more sophisticated and won't get into drunken riots the way football fans surely will. Could they modify the law to say 'if you're going to serve anywhere on campus that public events are held, you must serve everywhere?' Perhaps in theory. Maybe that would prompt the U to actually take this non-sense to court and have it thrown out.

It further illustrates that this is simply Rep. Rukavina getting mad about not having his beer and deciding to take it away from everyone. The fact is, he could easily have brought up the issue when the stadium was passed and it may have been addressed differently. But he didn't have a clue until Opening Day approached and he realized he couldn't have his precious booze. If he'd ever been to a basketball or hockey game or even a football game on any other campus in the U.S. he wouldn't have been so clueless.
 

Yeah. I lost all credibility with myself, the GH, and with all reasonalble people.

Tactics, yeah. Got lost in what I only have a vague clue about.
I have no idea if you're being sarcastic or not. If you are truly saying you can't explain the inconsistencies in your argument then we're good.

Problem is simple, I should have made only a moral argument. Kept to what I know to be true for me.

The other problem is the U. It really needs to review why its policy on liquor sales is inconsistently applied. They don't want you to know they have no beer exclusions at other non sporting venues. Seems there is two standards being applied. Not that that is a reason to think that the sports fan is treated any differently than the Bell Museum crowd or Morril Hall.
Personally I don't find this to be a moral issue because I don't find the inability to drink beer at a game worth much fuss. But I don't disagree that the policy itself does have some inconsistencies if you look at how the U (or many other schools like UW) handle alcohol being served at sporting events to how they handle serving it elsewhere on campus. That's a fair point to raise.

My stance on this has never been about whether the U should ban beer in the GA seating. Frankly, I could care less. I think I'd prefer that they don't serve it because it keeps the number of drunk dumba**es down. But that's not a good enough reason for me to feel comfortable using it as a foundation for an argument. What I've been arguing from day 1 is that whether you agree or disagree with the U's decision, it was the U's decision to make and not the Legislature's.
 

This was brought up by one of the 3 or 4 House members who were actually paying attention when this was debated (the rest were just nudged awake and pressed whatever button they were told.) Why is beer and wine allowed in some of the other venues on campus but not the football stadium? The somewhat lame excuse was that those venues are much smaller and it's much easier to control so as not to accidently serve people who are underage, etc. Rep. Kahn also had the brilliance to point out that crowds who attend concerts and art exhibits are much more sophisticated and won't get into drunken riots the way football fans surely will. Could they modify the law to say 'if you're going to serve anywhere on campus that public events are held, you must serve everywhere?' Perhaps in theory. Maybe that would prompt the U to actually take this non-sense to court and have it thrown out.

This is a very good reason why the state should not try to manage where, when, why or how The U serves alcohol. It's already complicated issue because The U has to balance liability, student safety, public safety, reputation and cost/benefit among others. They are the only controlling authority that can adequately make those decisions, while the state has no reasonable excuse for trying to do so.
 

This is a very good reason why the state should not try to manage where, when, why or how The U serves alcohol. It's already complicated issue because The U has to balance liability, student safety, public safety, reputation and cost/benefit among others. They are the only controlling authority that can adequately make those decisions, while the state has no reasonable excuse for trying to do so.

While the legislature has no standing to do so that doesn't mean the U couldn't do a better job of explaining the what appears to be inconsistencies. Again, we don't have to agree with what me might hear but it'd be nice to have it explained and be able to judge for ourselves whether it makes logical sense or not.
 

While the legislature has no standing to do so that doesn't mean the U couldn't do a better job of explaining the what appears to be inconsistencies. Again, we don't have to agree with what me might hear but it'd be nice to have it explained and be able to judge for ourselves whether it makes logical sense or not.

100% Agree. While I think it's apparent that the U had a well thought out plan to serve alcohol at the stadium, and profit from it while limiting liability, it's not clear if they have an official policy they follow when making those decisions.
 

I have no idea if you're being sarcastic or not. If you are truly saying you can't explain the inconsistencies in your argument then we're good.

I was being a consistent arrogant, ignorant, prick, to be precise. And, yes, I was admitting that I got out of hand, and my argument became inconsistent as well.

:eek::rolleyes:
 

I have no idea if you're being sarcastic or not. If you are truly saying you can't explain the inconsistencies in your argument then we're good.

I was being a consistent arrogant, ignorant, prick, to be precise. And, yes, I was admitting that I got out of hand, and my argument became inconsistent as well.

:eek::rolleyes:

NorthrOp
 




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