The offense down the stretch

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You guys don't even get it. We know the defense sucks, no one is saying it doesn't. What we are saying is that our Offense, especially this past game, hasn't been the same. As a coach, knowing your defense can not stop them at all, do you 1) Just try to run out the time 2) Try to score ? Do not forget how potent our Offense was last year. Two ALL-B10 players, a top RB, and all we can muster is that in the 4th quarter?
 

RolGnav said:
You guys don't even get it. We know the defense sucks, no one is saying it doesn't. What we are saying is that our Offense, especially this past game, hasn't been the same. As a coach, knowing your defense can not stop them at all, do you 1) Just try to run out the time 2) Try to score ? Do not forget how potent our Offense was last year. Two ALL-B10 players, a top RB, and all we can muster is that in the 4th quarter?
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Just, no. The offense was potent Friday and the stats bare it out. Defense only needs to minimally improve for Gophs to have a good chance to win out with this offense.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Just, no. The offense was potent Friday and the stats bare it out. Defense only needs to minimally improve for Gophs to have a good chance to win out with this offense.
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That was vs Maryland...........
 

PMWinSTP said:
Just, no. The offense was potent Friday and the stats bare it out. Defense only needs to minimally improve for Gophs to have a good chance to win out with this offense.
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The offense was potent, yet in crunch time we played conservatively believing that the defense would make a stop. It was a poor calculation to assume the defense would allow us to win without any more first downs or points.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Just, no. The offense was potent Friday and the stats bare it out. Defense only needs to minimally improve for Gophs to have a good chance to win out with this offense.
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Exactly.

This fixation with offensive play-calling after a game in which the defense gave up 675(!!!!!) yards is downright comical and almost absurd.

I'm 64 years old; been a football fan since I was 12. I saw the Purple People Eaters (Page, Eller, Larsen, Marshall) in action, in person. I saw the '85 Bears. Lawrence Taylor. Jared Allen.

I also saw, more recently, Eric Murray, Antoine Winfield, Jr., Thomas Barber, Blake Cashman.

After all that, I'm still having a hard time believing that it's even possible to give up 675 yards in a single game. I just can't wrap my head around it: 675 yards.

Yet, it happened. And now, here on GopherHole, we're fixated on (wait for it)... offensive play-calling!!!! That's right, the offensive play selection was the big problem.

You simply can't make this story up.
 
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RolGnav said:
That was vs Maryland...........
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Yep, an offense that managed 3 points (1st Qtr) and 207 yards, 90 of which were in the 4th quarter when down by 40 points, the week before. Give me a break.
 

So much better than leidner and Jerry kill yet here we are still complaining.
 

RememberMurray said:
Exactly.

This fixation with offensive play-calling after a game in which the defense gave up 675(!!!!!) yards is downright comical and almost absurd.

I'm 64 years old; been a football fan since I was 12. I saw the Purple People Eaters (Page, Eller, Larsen, Marshall) in action, in person. I saw the '85 Bears. Lawrence Taylor. Jared Allen.

I also saw, more recently, Eric Murray, Antoine Winfield, Jr., Thomas Barber, Blake Cashman.

After all that, I'm still having a hard time believing that it's even possible to give up 675 yards in a single game. I just can't wrap my head around it: 675 yards.

Yet, it happened. And now, here on GopherHole, we're fixated on (wait for it)... offensive play-calling!!!! That's right, the offensive play selection was the big problem.

You simply can't make this story up.
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All of which is why you CANNOT give the ball back to the opponent. You cannot gamble on the defense winning the game.

So you cannot go into a shell, and cannot refuse to recognize the opponent's defense has changed. They're not playing straight up any more. They're selling out to stop your running game. And they CAN, because you refuse to do anything but run the ball.

You can't let the 4th quarter go by without putting up points. Your defense isn't good enough to hold a lead...and EVERYONE KNOWS THIS by this point.

You play the hand you're dealt. Not the one you wish you had. Score some more, you have the offense to do that. You weren't dealt the defense to sit on a lead.
 

675 yards allowed is... wait for it...

... "the hand we're dealt".

But 44 points, 24 first downs, 262 rushing yards, 33:12 TOP is... a major, major problem?

Seriously?

As my daughter used to say, when she was a teen, "Oh my God, do you even HEAR yourself?!?!"
 



RememberMurray said:
675 yards allowed is... wait for it...

... "the hand we're dealt".

But 44 points, 24 first downs, 262 rushing yards, 33:12 TOP is... a major, major problem?

Seriously?

As my daughter used to say, when she was a teen, "Oh my God, do you even HEAR yourself?!?!"
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Not a major problem, but they didn’t do enough to win the game. The major problem is going into a shell when up 17, believing your defense will hold, when they had forced only 1 punt all game and did the same the week before. Why back off at that point? Put up another score, then if you get the ball again go try to score another one. That’s how you win shoot outs. You don’t get to a point total and say we’re good, defense it’s up to you now to stop them.
 

upnorthkid said:
Then I hate Sanford even more if he decided the offense was more about what he knew how to do than adapting it to what his players do best. TM2 had one of the best seasons we’ve ever seen in maroon and gold and he is clearly a smart dude so I would highly doubt knowing the playbook would be an issue (you see this manifest in not knowing the check downs or where to look when there’s pressure). This offense needs to be pedal to the metal all year because you don’t have any studs on defense to shut things down. Tanner has to be trusted when there’s 8 in the box or he should not be the quarterback. Hopefully they learned their lessons this week.
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If PJ and Sanford don’t want TM2 to ever run the ball to keep defenses honest, fine. But if in the 4th Q we shrink into a timid offensive shell and don’t let TM2 run himself OR throw any passes—essentially telegraphing every play to the defense—then we will see more 4th Q collapses. It is a losing strategy to have a tired, overused RB (even one who is a stud) run pointlessly play after play into a stacked box while three very good receivers (counting Jackson who looks very good) sit unused. At least rotate the backs.
 

GFBfan said:
Not a major problem, but they didn’t do enough to win the game. The major problem is going into a shell when up 17, believing your defense will hold, when they had forced only 1 punt all game and did the same the week before. Why back off at that point? Put up another score, then if you get the ball again go try to score another one. That’s how you win shoot outs. You don’t get to a point total and say we’re good, defense it’s up to you now to stop them.
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Gophs didn't do enough to win the game...on defense.
 

MplsGopher said:
What would you say toa hypothetical PJ devil's advocate response of:

"We're up 17, and even 10, and our defense can't win the game for us? Unacceptable. Defense needs to step up. We need to be able to depend on our defense to make plays. Offense went out and got the work done to win the game. Defense needs to get it done."
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That's great coach speak...you know Fleck well, lol. Here's how I would've justified the opposite decision:

"We understand where we're at on defense right now. We've got a bunch of young, talented kids who are learning on the fly in a really tough conference. They'd been taking some lumps out there, and Maryland was moving the ball well in the 4th quarter. We felt our best chance was to win the game with our offense, which is much more experienced and was having success. We'll need our defense to win some games for us later in the year, but tonight our offense needed to go win the game."
 



In some situations, a team's best and perhaps only defense is a good offense. No one is criticizing our offensive players or their production against Maryland--it was great. But some folks are criticizing our coaches' defensive strategy in the 4th Q. We had two defensive choices: (1) to use robust offensive play calling, using all our weapons, attempting to punish Maryland for selling out to stop the run; or (2) to pull into an offensive shell, throw out our diverse playbook, and run repeatedly into a stacked box, exactly as Maryland expected. Under choice (1) your offense in effect becomes your defense to guard the win. Under Choice (2) you effectively entrust your confused, porous defense to safeguard the win. In retrospect, it would have increased the likelihood of a win if we had used our high-powered, multi-faceted offense as as our "defense" to secure the win. Clearly our defense lost the game; but our 4th Q play calling deprived our offensive players the opportunity to win the game despite the defense.
 

RememberMurray said:
675 yards allowed is... wait for it...

... "the hand we're dealt".

But 44 points, 24 first downs, 262 rushing yards, 33:12 TOP is... a major, major problem?

Seriously?

As my daughter used to say, when she was a teen, "Oh my God, do you even HEAR yourself?!?!"
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Well, you can wish you had a better defense in one hand, and **** in the other, and see which hand fills up first.

Nobody saying the offense is a "major, major problem."

Exactly the opposite. The defense is the "major, major problem."

That's why you don't shut down the part of your team that ISNT a major problem and turn the game over to the part that IS.

This is so simple, I don't understand the pushback.

NObody is saying the offense isn't capable...that's WHAT we're saying.
 

USAF said:
Well, you can wish you had a better defense in one hand, and **** in the other, and see which hand fills up first.

Nobody saying the offense is a "major, major problem."

Exactly the opposite. The defense is the "major, major problem."

That's why you don't shut down the part of your team that ISNT a major problem and turn the game over to the part that IS.

This is so simple, I don't understand the pushback.

NObody is saying the offense isn't capable...that's WHAT we're saying.
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I'm not talking about "wishing" for anything. I'm talking about focusing on fixing the biggest problem.

Maybe we're each saying roughly similar things, but coming at it from different directions.

Let me put it this way:

If I'm Fleck, I'm putting a major part of my time and energy this week into addressing the issues on defense. Working with the assistants. Asking questions. Identifying specific areas of concern. Making a plan.

Here at GopherHole, we can spend as much time discussing offensive play selection as we want. But I'd strongly prefer the team focus this coming week be on the defense.
 
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MplsGopher said:
What would you say toa hypothetical PJ devil's advocate response of:

"We're up 17, and even 10, and our defense can't win the game for us? Unacceptable. Defense needs to step up. We need to be able to depend on our defense to make plays. Offense went out and got the work done to win the game. Defense needs to get it done."
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I'd say he's totally out of touch with the reality of his own team.

I'd say he's ignorant of how many times the offense could have won the game instead of hoping the defense didn't lose it.

I'd say he hasn't seen that some really good competitive teams can win games and gain an identity by being really really good at scoring points regardless of how bad the defense plays (see every Big 12 champ in the last ten years).

I'd say a coach that is willing to lose a game to make a point to his defense that they need to play better isn't a very good coach.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I'm sorry but the mix of plays in the 4th qtr was the same as the first 3 qtrs.
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Problem is you are now in the 4th with a RB at +35 carries and and a defense that knows we're trying to run out the game. If we throw the ball on 1-2 of the 1st downs, we likely win the game.

As someone in the media pointed out on Twitter (Can't remember who it was). "Gopher fans need to learn that Fleck is ultra conservative in game management."
 


MGGopher said:
"We understand where we're at on defense right now. We've got a bunch of young, talented kids who are learning on the fly in a really tough conference. They'd been taking some lumps out there, and Maryland was moving the ball well in the 4th quarter. We felt our best chance was to win the game with our offense, which is much more experienced and was having success. We'll need our defense to win some games for us later in the year, but tonight our offense needed to go win the game."
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Well put right here
 

RememberMurray said:
I'm not talking about "wishing" for anything. I'm talking about focusing on fixing the biggest problem.

Maybe we're each saying roughly similar things, but coming at it from different directions.

Let me put it this way:

If I'm Fleck, I'm putting a major part of my time and energy this week into addressing the issues on defense. Working with the assistants. Asking questions. Identifying specific areas of concern. Making a plan.

Here at GopherHole, we can spend as much time discussing offensive play selection as we want. But I'd strongly prefer the team focus this coming week be on the defense.
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But we weren't talking about what should be the focus this week.

We're talking about what they should have done to win a specific game...at MD last Friday.

And they should have tried damn hard to let the offense win it.

What they focus on this week has nothing to do with that.
 

noamfromm said:
You've said this repeatedly, but we did not run into stacked boxes throughout the first three quarters. The plays we called for those circumstances changed in the 4th.
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I was responding back to the posts claiming Gophs got conservative and changed the offense approach in the 4th.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I was responding back to the posts claiming Gophs got conservative and changed the offense approach in the 4th.
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I was talking about the same thing. We did not run into stacked boxes in the first three quarters. We then went conservative and ran into stacked boxes in fourth.
 

noamfromm said:
I was talking about the same thing. We did not run into stacked boxes in the first three quarters. We then went conservative and ran into stacked boxes in fourth.
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Gophs ran the same set and mix of plays in the 4th as they we running all game, so I guess you are saying they were conservative all game.
 

I'm going to assume that not one poster here who has been complaining about the Gophers running the ball too much at the end of the game would have had exactly the opposite reaction if, for example, the Gophers went three-and-out on a crucial possession while throwing twice, thereby stopping the clock twice because of two incomplete passes, and handing the ball over to Maryland with that much more time left on the clock. Or if they'd taken a sack. Or if Morgan had been hit while in the pocket and had fumbled the ball away.

I'm going to assume that those folks would not have moaned, "Why on earth are they throwing the ball there, when we needed to run time off the clock, when Mo had been gashing Maryland all night long, and when our hapless defense was desperately in need of a rest, and time to re-group on the sideline?!?!"
 

PMWinSTP said:
I was responding back to the posts claiming Gophs got conservative and changed the offense approach in the 4th.
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They did, based on what Maryland did on D. We've been told for 4 years now, that the offense takes what the defense gives them. That is why they stand up at the line and let the play clock run down to near zero most of the time, because they are looking for the best play to run. Running a play between the tackles against an 8 or 9 man box is not the best play to run at that point. As McGopher pointed out, they decided to put the game in the hands of the defense and you even clearly have stated that the defense was the problem. Why would any smart coach do that? They got conservative on offense at a time in the game when they should have put it out of reach with another score.
 

RememberMurray said:
I'm going to assume that not one poster here who has been complaining about the Gophers running the ball too much at the end of the game would have had exactly the opposite reaction if, for example, the Gophers went three-and-out on a crucial possession while throwing twice, thereby stopping the clock twice because of two incomplete passes, and handing the ball over to Maryland with that much more time left on the clock. Or if they'd taken a sack. Or if Morgan had been hit while in the pocket and had fumbled the ball away.

I'm going to assume that those folks would not have moaned, "Why on earth are they throwing the ball there, when we needed to run time off the clock, when Mo had been gashing Maryland all night long, and when our hapless defense was desperately in need of a rest, and time to re-group on the sideline?!?!"
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You're forgetting that Maryland wasn't stacking the box for the first 3 quarters. They changed their look and we just tried to do the same thing. That's not good football.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Gophs ran the same set and mix of plays in the 4th as they we running all game, so I guess you are saying they were conservative all game.
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I guess I missed the shots downfield in the 4th quarter. Like the one in the 3rd to CAB.
 

USAF said:
I guess I missed the shots downfield in the 4th quarter. Like the one in the 3rd to CAB.
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Just so I understand, are you are advocating for "shots downfield" in that situation, rather than attempting to run down the clock?
 

GFBfan said:
You're forgetting that Maryland wasn't stacking the box for the first 3 quarters. They changed their look and we just tried to do the same thing. That's not good football.
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To be clear, are you saying that if the defense is "stacking the box", the offense should automatically go to the pass — no matter what the game situation? We should not attempt to run time off the clock, because the "box is stacked"?
 

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