The cost of the buy-out

[gopherMD]

Once again you fail to realize those guys were signed because of transfers. Guys like Wragge had signed LOI's well before Tubby knew those spots were opening up. Why people can't grasp this is beyond me.

Tubby is fair game for the transfers and I could see people saying he should have banked a scholarship or two in those situations. There's not a whole lot of good recruits available in April-July.

Sorry you don't get my point which is not about Wragge per se but about Tubby's inability/refusal to recruit shooters. He recruits a disproportiante number of "wings" at the expense of not landing shooters. Wolters, Wragge and Broman are those type of players.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Sorry you don't get my point which is not about Wragge per se but about Tubby's inability/refusal to recruit shooters. He recruits a disproportiante number of "wings" at the expense of not landing shooters. Wolters, Wragge and Broman are those type of players.

They play for mid-major schools because they didn't have any offers from major conferences. Tubby has tried to recruit shooters they just didn't commit here and you can blame him for that but don't blame him for not recruiting guys with no high major offers.

 

[station19]

If Tubby is not gone after this season, it means Teague is performing at the Maturi level.

 

[gopherMD]

They play for mid-major schools because they didn't have any offers from major conferences. Tubby has tried to recruit shooters they just didn't commit here and you can blame him for that but don't blame him for not recruiting guys with no high major offers.

So instead of signing a shooter who doesn't have major conference offers you are better off with Mav, Chip and Ingram. I would have been great to get Matt Thomas-I get it. But the policy of recruiting wings who can't shoot has not worked. Take a chance on someone who might be the next Hoff.

 

[scher215]

The next Hoff? Blake wasn't some lowly recruited guy. He had an offer from Notre Dame. A BCS school.

 

[Gold Vision]

Tubby tries to recruit plenty of shooters. He has just failed at it. Ogelsby, Jesperson, Brust, and Thomas were a few they missed out on. Andre Hollins was recruited as a shooter.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Sorry you don't get my point which is not about Wragge per se but about Tubby's inability/refusal to recruit shooters. He recruits a disproportiante number of "wings" at the expense of not landing shooters. Wolters, Wragge and Broman are those type of players.

I absolutely get your point. My point was more about Mav, Chip, and Ingram. You keep bringing them up and I'm saying that when they were brought in (extremely late in the recruiting process) there wasn't much of anything out there to recruit, shooters or not. Your argument would make more sense if you mentioned guys like Coleman or Williams. I still wouldn't necessarily agree with it but it would make more sense.

Take a chance on someone who might be the next Hoff.

The scouting report on Oto coming in was he was a very good shooter. That was not just coming from Tubby and the Gophers but from some of the recruiting sites. Wouldn't that be the definition of taking a chance? If they take a chance on a guy like Broman and he absolutely flops, the same people complaining now about lack of shooters will be complaining about why we gave a scholarship to a guy who had no other top offers.

By the way, if Wragge is such a great shooter, why is he only getting 16 minutes a game? I'm seriously asking as I haven't seen him play that much. Is the rest of his game really bad? He scored five points total in the first two conference tourney games in just 15 minutes.

 

[wisbadger303]

As unbiased outsider, it's interesting to read the take of GHer's on Tubby's future here. My question for you is does he want to stay here? Watching his last few pressers, it doesn't seem like he has the passion to want to stay. Of course, if the games had been Ws, I'm sure he would have looked different.

 

[GopherGod]

Even if the Gophers lose in the first round, Teague is NOT firing Tubby. There'll be some changes, like new assistants, but Teague is not firing Tubby regardless. It's just a pipe dream by some fans. It ain't happening.

Good luck getting new assistants worth a darn when they know they are being brought in for a coach on the hot seat. The only assistants that would take that are guys with limited options and only looking for a one year paycheck.

 

[WhoFellDownTheGopherHole?]

I hereby pledge a $20.00 contribution towards the buyout.

 

[jamiche]

As unbiased outsider, it's interesting to read the take of GHer's on Tubby's future here. My question for you is does he want to stay here? Watching his last few pressers, it doesn't seem like he has the passion to want to stay. Of course, if the games had been Ws, I'm sure he would have looked different.

He's got approx $10M left on his deal. He's not going anywhere on his own.

 

[bigticket1]

Tubby tries to recruit plenty of shooters. He has just failed at it. Ogelsby, Jesperson, Brust, and Thomas were a few they missed out on. Andre Hollins was recruited as a shooter.

The problem is that he is playing the point.

 

[LongOpherDo]

I've heard the AD has had the radar on for some time. There are those and then also deteriorating health issues rumors. I'm confident NT has been exploring options and if we're stuck with Tubby the only reason is because NT is not comfortable with the candidate pool. He and Ellis have some excellent connections within the coaching community.

 

[Gold Vision]

The problem is that he is playing the point.

Yeah, count me in as a guy that wishes we would have used one of the 2012 or 2013 scholarships on a PG. I think Dre is good in stretches as a combo guard, but would do way more damage off the ball. Hopefully Mav can be that guy next year to provide some quality PG minutes. I was impressed with his improvement this year.

 

[scher215]

I've heard the AD has had the radar on for some time. There are those and then also deteriorating health issues rumors. I'm confident NT has been exploring options and if we're stuck with Tubby the only reason is because NT is not comfortable with the candidate pool. He and Ellis have some excellent connections within the coaching community.

Seems to make sense. NT and Mike Ellis are the two I'd most want running the basketball program. We are in great hands IMO.

 

[Dano564]

Lou Nanne was on the sports show last night, and laid out a pretty unbiased argument that Tubby could be gone.
Basically, if you think this is as good as the Gopher program can be, then you don't change anything.
If you think it can be better, than as AD you might decide to make a change.
You can't hand-tie the new AD with the old AD's budget woes. You hired him to do a job. Can't tell him, "No, you can't make any changes, we're still paying for football coaches that don't work for us."

 

[tikited]

You can't hand-tie the new AD with the old AD's budget woes. You hired him to do a job. Can't tell him, "No, you can't make any changes, we're still paying for football coaches that don't work for us."

This is great news if it is believed by those that matter.

 

[gopherMD]

I absolutely get your point. My point was more about Mav, Chip, and Ingram. You keep bringing them up and I'm saying that when they were brought in (extremely late in the recruiting process) there wasn't much of anything out there to recruit, shooters or not. Your argument would make more sense if you mentioned guys like Coleman or Williams. I still wouldn't necessarily agree with it but it would make more sense.



The scouting report on Oto coming in was he was a very good shooter. That was not just coming from Tubby and the Gophers but from some of the recruiting sites. Wouldn't that be the definition of taking a chance? If they take a chance on a guy like Broman and he absolutely flops, the same people complaining now about lack of shooters will be complaining about why we gave a scholarship to a guy who had no other top offers.

By the way, if Wragge is such a great shooter, why is he only getting 16 minutes a game? I'm seriously asking as I haven't seen him play that much. Is the rest of his game really bad? He scored five points total in the first two conference tourney games in just 15 minutes.

It all comes down to poor recruiting which is what people in Kentucky said about Tubby. He won there with Pitino's guys like he did at Georgia Tech. He may not be able to sell the program because he is now too old and too far removed from his NCAA championship at Kentucky. I will grant you that he tried with Oto altho I know little about his HS numbers. He is a poor judge of talent and favors athletic wing player over the shooters. It is a mistake to just grab a player just to fill a scholarship as was the case with Mav, Ingram and Mav. Bank the scholarship for next year. Can't answer the Wragge playing time question. He has good size but is not exceptionally quick so perhaps he is a defensive liability. He is a solid 3 point shooter when the pressure is on as he demonstrated yesterday. I saw Broman play on Tyus' team at the EYBL in Eagan last spring. He can defend and is a good shooter. Undersized but played with the elites. I don't profess to know whether he would make it in the B1G, I just know that what Tubby has done here as far as recruiting has not been the answer. The last 2 classes have been mediocre IMO even if they get Schilling.

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

Lou Nanne was on the sports show last night, and laid out a pretty unbiased argument that Tubby could be gone.
Basically, if you think this is as good as the Gopher program can be, then you don't change anything.
If you think it can be better, than as AD you might decide to make a change.
You can't hand-tie the new AD with the old AD's budget woes. You hired him to do a job. Can't tell him, "No, you can't make any changes, we're still paying for football coaches that don't work for us."

It was basically Reusse & Nanne against Sid, with Max trying to referee.

Funny stuff.

 

[Minnesconsin fan]

2.5 million(yeah I know there are more parts)
spread out over 5 years = 500 K per year(not sure if or how much central admn charges for interest)

Drop in attendance because of present state:
$35 per seat X 19 games = $685

1 year loss of 1,000 tiks per game = $685,000(doesn't include preferred seating and concession revenue)

Attendance has already dropped the last couple of years I believe and my figures may be a little off, but you get the idea.

it would be interesting to see the actual projections on this with solid numbers. The 1000 season ticket holders also adds 1000 more seats available per game in in packages and those were discounted for the non-Big Ten games so much that it really made me think hard about why I have season tickets and pay $33 per game plus $400 per year to see the same game that they are now willing to sell for $5.00. Maybe the only thing they have going for them in that regard is how few non-BigTen games were on TV. My hunch is the numbers you could project could justify the buyout pretty easily. I know they lost a bunch of ticket holders before this year because of the re-seating process, not necessarily the team on the court.

The one good thing about all of the FireTubby talk is it shows the passion is still there. When it turns to apathy it is worse.

 

[Bad Gopher]

It all comes down to poor recruiting which is what people in Kentucky said about Tubby. He won there with Pitino's guys like he did at Georgia Tech. He may not be able to sell the program because he is now too old and too far removed from his NCAA championship at Kentucky. I will grant you that he tried with Oto altho I know little about his HS numbers. He is a poor judge of talent and favors athletic wing player over the shooters. It is a mistake to just grab a player just to fill a scholarship as was the case with Mav, Ingram and Mav. Bank the scholarship for next year. Can't answer the Wragge playing time question. He has good size but is not exceptionally quick so perhaps he is a defensive liability. He is a solid 3 point shooter when the pressure is on as he demonstrated yesterday. I saw Broman play on Tyus' team at the EYBL in Eagan last spring. He can defend and is a good shooter. Undersized but played with the elites. I don't profess to know whether he would make it in the B1G, I just know that what Tubby has done here as far as recruiting has not been the answer. The last 2 classes have been mediocre IMO even if they get Schilling.

At the end of the day, someone has to be accountable that there isn't enough skill on this roster. It's amazing to me how the apologists continue to throw out red herrings and move the problem around in a sort of shell game until nobody's responsible and there might not even be any problem at all. Just pump the sewage around until it evaporates! "The scouting reports said Oto is a good shooter." Where the F are you getting your scouting reports?!? Well, he was a good shooter but not any more." What the F is wrong with coaching and development if that's the case?!? "The lack of a practice facility makes it tougher to recruit." So improve your scouting and find some diamonds in the rough like other astute programs manage to do once in a while. You can't simultaneously say that we're relegated to second-tier recruits because of facilities and in the same breath say that we can't take a flyer on Wragge and Wolters because they're second-tier recruits!!!

I'm as frustrated with some of these confused circular thinkers on this board as I am with the state of the team and the program.

 

[GophersInIowa]

It all comes down to poor recruiting which is what people in Kentucky said about Tubby.

Compared to what they were used to (McDonalds all-americans, 5-star guys, etc), that is correct. But at MN he's brought in some guys with very good offers.

He is a poor judge of talent and favors athletic wing player over the shooters.

I just don't agree. He's brought in some very talented players. Some have done very well (Mbakwe, Hollins), some have transferred and done very well (Joseph, Cobbs, Iverson, White), and some have not played up to their abilities (Williams). Of the players who signed with MN since 2000, only two (Rickert and Humphries) were drafted by the NBA. White was already drafted and there's a very good shot Mbakwe and Hollins will be. There's a solid chance Iverson could get drafted, an outside chance someone will still take a chance on Rodney, and if Austin can come back next year who knows. At the very least, that's probably three draft picks from a three year period of recruits. I know that's not the only way to judge talent, but that doesn't sound like someone who can't judge talent.

He's also recruited shooting wing players, he just hasn't landed many of them. Although he has struggled big time of late, Austin Hollins is a shooter. Ellenson is supposed to be. Same with Buggs and Ellis. We'll have to see though. Rodney Williams and Joe Coleman are the only two that really stand out to me as being non-shooting wing players and both were no brainer signee's.

It is a mistake to just grab a player just to fill a scholarship as was the case with Mav, Ingram and Mav. Bank the scholarship for next year.

I don't disagree. But that doesn't have a lot to do with identify and recruiting players. Though I do think he pretty much to take Mav or Chip since they were the same year. Banking one is okay, but two is pretty risky.

 

[GophersInIowa]

At the end of the day, someone has to be accountable that there isn't enough skill on this roster. It's amazing to me how the apologists continue to throw out red herrings and move the problem around in a sort of shell game until nobody's responsible and there might not even be any problem at all. Just pump the sewage around until it evaporates! "The scouting reports said Oto is a good shooter." Where the F are you getting your scouting reports?!? Well, he was a good shooter but not any more." What the F is wrong with coaching and development if that's the case?!? "The lack of a practice facility makes it tougher to recruit." So improve your scouting and find some diamonds in the rough like other astute programs manage to do once in a while. You can't simultaneously say that we're relegated to second-tier recruits because of facilities and in the same breath say that we can't take a flyer on Wragge and Wolters because they're second-tier recruits!!!

I'm as frustrated with some of these confused circular thinkers on this board as I am with the state of the team and the program.

I get it. If someone doesn't think every single part of Tubby's time here is a problem, then it's just making excuses. It's not like I've ever said Tubby deserves blame for the transfers or lack of development.

I get frustrated with those who think if you defend anything Tubby has done, then you're okay with everything. I think he's done a terrible job overall. I think he should be fired. It is okay to defend certain things he's done, yet still think he has done terrible overall.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I get it. If someone doesn't think every single part of Tubby's time here is a problem, then it's just making excuses.

I don't think every single part of Tubby's time here is a problem, so I don't expect anyone else to.