The Comparable 4: Minnesota (Johnson), Iowa State (Otzelberger), Penn State (Shrewsberry), Utah (Smith)

Donate To GopherHole

Some guy said:
maybe.
But I think this is Ben’s biggest payday of his career adjusted for future inflation.
So he is going to want every penny he is owed
Click to expand...
What I was saying is that I think being a successful CBB HC is the most important thing to Ben, in no way should he talk himself out of the money the U owes him but the buyout is delaying his next step. As odd as it may seem I think there is the potential he makes it back to a power conference some day.
 
Last edited:

formerlybis said:
Shrewsberry is mentioned for the Georgetown job, too.

It's an interesting contrast with MN - PSU went with a guy with no real ties to the school or the area who went portal and veteran-heavy in constructing his team. He was successful and other schools with more tradition than PSU come calling. Other than the professional ethic of possibly not wanting to desert a program after only two years, the signs would point to him being lured away

Is that really a better situation than MN finds itself in? At least they'll dance this year, so, they've got that, but they could go down considerably given virtually their entire rotation graduates and a potential coaching change.
Click to expand...
yeah we dodged a bullet
 

goldengophers said:
What I was saying is that I think being a successful CBB HC is the most important thing to Ben, in no way should he talk himself out of the money the U owes him but the buyout is delaying his next step. As odd as it may seem I think there is the potential he makes it back to a power conference some day.
Click to expand...
You are forgetting that when Ben is fired he will spend his career telling everyone why no one can succeed at MN. All the check cashing clock watchers we fire are immediately victims of a no win sitch. Ben will be no different. ‘Not my fault, man’
 

forever a gopher said:
So we want to be bad so we don’t lose our coach? If ever there was a defeatist attitude, this would be it.

The mental gymnastics people go through to make it seem not so bad that they just sat through the worst 2-year stretch in Gopher BB history. But at least we didn’t lose our coach!
Click to expand...
Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying that the Minnesota situation isn't bad, because it is. If Johnson could have been successful, he has the local and program ties that may have kept him from being lured away and having the program go through a reset.

Thought experiment, suppose you could have seen into the future two years ago. Would you have preferred to hire a coach that would leave after two years and leave the cupboard bare for the next year? Is one year of NCAA worth having to reset again? Yeah, that's better than what the gophers have experienced, but the philosophy of thinking long-term was not meritless.
 


formerlybis said:
Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying that the Minnesota situation isn't bad, because it is. If Johnson could have been successful, he has the local and program ties that may have kept him from being lured away and having the program go through a reset.

Thought experiment, suppose you could have seen into the future two years ago. Would you have preferred to hire a coach that would leave after two years and leave the cupboard bare for the next year? Is one year of NCAA worth having to reset again? Yeah, that's better than what the gophers have experienced, but the philosophy of thinking long-term was not meritless.
Click to expand...

You’re assuming Johnson will be successful. I’d rather make the tourney and lose my coach after two seasons than be awful for 3-5 years and fire my coach.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
You’re assuming Johnson will be successful. I’d rather make the tourney and lose my coach after two seasons than be awful for 3-5 years and fire my coach.
Click to expand...
I understand why you say that, but I wasn't assuming that. I meant to take the Gophers' actual performance (pitiful) out of the equation. You want to hire a good coach, period, end of story.
 

I’d be curious what Built Badger has to say about Ben and this year’s results. I always valued Built’s reactions and comments but have not seen anything from him for a long time. Hope he’s ok.
 

Updated Through Conference Tournaments
These 2nd-year coaches are listed in order of overall winning percentage since taking over their programs prior to the 2021-22 season.

1 TJ Otzelberger (Iowa State) -- 41-26 overall (61.2%), 27-26 vs. Power 6 (50.9%), NCAA Tournament Appearances/Record (2/2-1)

2 Micah Shrewsberry (Penn State) -- 36-30 overall (54.5%), 24-29 vs. Power 6 (45.3%), NCAA Tournament Appearances/Record (1/0-0)

3 Craig Smith (Utah) -- 28-35 overall (44.4%), 16-32 vs. Power 6 (33.3%)

4 Ben Johnson (Minnesota) -- 22-39 overall (36.1%), 9-38 vs. Power 6 (19.1%)

NEXT UPDATE: After NCAA Tournament
 




DEGopherfan said:
I’d be curious what Built Badger has to say about Ben and this year’s results. I always valued Built’s reactions and comments but have not seen anything from him for a long time. Hope he’s ok.
Click to expand...
Built was big in Ben's court when he was hired. It would be an interesting update. I like Ben. This is a tough, tough job and getting tougher. Hope he makes it. I saw some signs of improvement towards the end of the year.
 


Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Shrewsberry can really coach
Click to expand...
That is true, also grabbing the Bucknell sharpshooter "Funk" definitely helps. Veteran squad, filled the gaps thru the portal. Our base isn't old like PSU's was. Shrewsberry is a better coach, but he also inherited a veteren squad, whom he did retain (credit to him) then filled in the gaps. We have so many holes in our bucket it's hard to even begin to fill them. I would say recruit young transfer portal guys with upside Freshman and Sophomores or even Juniors. Yet, CBJ is on the hotseat he will likely go the Senior route, which will gain backfire. No continuity long term. There is zero vision with this program or identity there hasn't been since Clem. Tubby leveraged his name and above average coaching ability to get a few NCAA wins, but that was not a long term solution either. It's amazing how much of a doldrum this program really is. NW and PSU have had recent success. We now may be the worst BIG job despite a talent rich Bball state. Makes no sense, but here we are.

Actually it does.... as an out state alum, I can't get over the negativity in social media, the press, the fans, etc around all things U of M. If I was an out of state athlete it'd give me serious pause or walk away. Most schools are so optimistic you ask what they're smoking. With our fan base they're so negative you ask if they're being held hostage. It's crazy. You are what you believe.
 



Tvans022 said:
That is true, also grabbing the Bucknell sharpshooter "Funk" definitely helps. Veteran squad, filled the gaps thru the portal. Our base isn't old like PSU's was. Shrewsberry is a better coach, but he also inherited a veteren squad, whom he did retain (credit to him) then filled in the gaps. We have so many holes in our bucket it's hard to even begin to fill them. I would say recruit young transfer portal guys with upside Freshman and Sophomores or even Juniors. Yet, CBJ is on the hotseat he will likely go the Senior route, which will gain backfire. No continuity long term. There is zero vision with this program or identity there hasn't been since Clem. Tubby leveraged his name and above average coaching ability to get a few NCAA wins, but that was not a long term solution either. It's amazing how much of a doldrum this program really is. NW and PSU have had recent success. We now may be the worst BIG job despite a talent rich Bball state. Makes no sense, but here we are.

Actually it does.... as an out state alum, I can't get over the negativity in social media, the press, the fans, etc around all things U of M. If I was an out of state athlete it'd give me serious pause or walk away. Most schools are so optimistic you ask what they're smoking. With our fan base they're so negative you ask if they're being held hostage. It's crazy. You are what you believe.
Click to expand...

He recruited(through the portal) a veteran squad. There are only 2 guys still on the roster, that played on the 2021 team. He flipped it. And did a hell of a job. 6 of the top 8 scorers weren't on the roster in 2021. I mean how good could we have been if we had Wynter and Funk as our starting back court? Probably a hell of a lot better considering what we got at SG all year, and with Cooper's limitations.
 

Gophers7633 said:
He recruited(through the portal) a veteran squad. There are only 2 guys still on the roster, that played on the 2021 team. He flipped it. And did a hell of a job. 6 of the top 8 scorers weren't on the roster in 2021. I mean how good could we have been if we had Wynter and Funk as our starting back court? Probably a hell of a lot better considering what we got at SG all year, and with Cooper's limitations.
Click to expand...

We are in agreeance. I guess, I felt carrying, Dredd and Lundy was a really nice base. He did completely flip it to your point. Not saying CBJ is Shrewsberry, already said Coach S is a better coach and trained under Stevens and Painter (great get by PSU), but I am saying that he brought in a Bucknell & Sienna recruit along with a few other role players and had a plan. It can be done. My question is as it has been since Clem. WHAT IS THE IDENTITY OF THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA OR ANY COACH WE HIRE? I haven't been able to answer that since. We have never done the little things no matter who the coach, shoot free throws, or execute inbounds passes well. At this point I'd kill for a bunch of scrappy defenders. I believe it's easier to build a program through gritty defense and then find your scoring than vice versa, but a year from now we'll likely be searching for the "next big thing," coaching wise.
 

Shrewsberry has tied Tubby Smith and Richard Pitino for NCAA wins as a big ten coach. For those of you keeping track. But let’s not let that change our thoughts on the rebuild. We’re better off with a loyal coach.
 
Last edited:

UpAndUnder43 said:
Shrewsberry has tied Tubby Smith and Richard Pitino for NCAA wins as a big ten coach. For those of you keeping track. But let’s not let that change our thoughts on the rebuild. We’re better off with a loyal coach.
Click to expand...

Respectfully what's your point here? Because Shrews has won just one we shouldn't change our trajectory? OR Because Shrews has won one he is only as good as Pitino and Tubby? (Sarcasm). He's better.
 

I'll be fairly surprised - and pretty impressed - if Shrewsberry is coaching PSU next year. He's being pursued by both Notre Dame and Georgetown and he'll lose the nucleus (and some electrons) of his team to graduation. I don't know if PSU could match the money that'll be thrown his way, either. But, he strikes me as a guy who might stay because he's wants to stay committed to the program that gave him his shot and wouldn't leave after only two years. Like I said, that would be impressive.
 

formerlybis said:
I'll be fairly surprised - and pretty impressed - if Shrewsberry is coaching PSU next year. He's being pursued by both Notre Dame and Georgetown and he'll lose the nucleus (and some electrons) of his team to graduation. I don't know if PSU could match the money that'll be thrown his way, either. But, he strikes me as a guy who might stay because he's wants to stay committed to the program that gave him his shot and wouldn't leave after only two years. Like I said, that would be impressive.
Click to expand...
Who knows how these coaches think. Maybe he went to Penn State as they gave him his first P6 job.

But if his end goal is the NBA, he may have to leave for a bigger job and continue the success for two years…then jump to the pros.
 

formerlybis said:
I'll be fairly surprised - and pretty impressed - if Shrewsberry is coaching PSU next year. He's being pursued by both Notre Dame and Georgetown and he'll lose the nucleus (and some electrons) of his team to graduation. I don't know if PSU could match the money that'll be thrown his way, either. But, he strikes me as a guy who might stay because he's wants to stay committed to the program that gave him his shot and wouldn't leave after only two years. Like I said, that would be impressive.
Click to expand...
Wait, what?

You don't think PSU has money to throw around, if they wanted to?

He may leave, for a more "prestigious" program well and good, but I bet PSU backers are willing to back up a dump truck to keep him, if he's open to it.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Wait, what?

You don't think PSU has money to throw around, if they wanted to?

He may leave, for a more "prestigious" program well and good, but I bet PSU backers are willing to back up a dump truck to keep him, if he's open to it.
Click to expand...
A school like Georgetown can overpay because they don't have D1 football
 

formerlybis said:
A school like Georgetown can overpay because they don't have D1 football
Click to expand...
Big East gives Georgetown probably I'm guessing $5-10 M per year. On top of what they can generate in ticket sales, I believe they play most home games in the Wizards NBA arena. No idea what sales are like.

Big Ten gives Penn State currently $50M a year, and will be more like $80+M a year. On top of them selling out a 100+k whatever football stadium for 7 home games every year. No idea what their bball ticket sales are like or how big their arena is, but guessing over 10k at least. Their fanbase is rabid and will support any winning team in blue and white.


I'm thinking PSU can match them.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Shrewsberry has tied Tubby Smith and Richard Pitino for NCAA wins as a big ten coach. For those of you keeping track. But let’s not let that change our thoughts on the rebuild. We’re better off with a loyal coach.
Click to expand...
Come on. Minnesota is no Penn State.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Big East gives Georgetown probably I'm guessing $5-10 M per year. On top of what they can generate in ticket sales, I believe they play most home games in the Wizards NBA arena. No idea what sales are like.

Big Ten gives Penn State currently $50M a year, and will be more like $80+M a year. On top of them selling out a 100+k whatever football stadium for 7 home games every year. No idea what their bball ticket sales are like or how big their arena is, but guessing over 10k at least. Their fanbase is rabid and will support any winning team in blue and white.


I'm thinking PSU can match them.
Click to expand...
Their arena is big enough, but they haven't drawn well. They also haven't had a winner, so maybe they will. Part of the issue is that State College is the smallest, most-isolated-from-the-population-centers campus in the B1G, and it's hard for people to get there on a Tuesday night (as opposed to a football Saturday). Still the student population is huge and they should be able to at least get them in (though that doesn't really help drive up the gross revenue because those are discounted rate tickets),

But compensation is just one factor, as I said originally. I think having all his rotation graduating is a bigger factor in that the iron may never be as hot as it is right now. If you're going to go, now is the time if you don't want to take the chance of backsliding and tarnish your marketability.
 


Spaulding!No! said:
Could mn have hired shrewsberry?
Click to expand...
I don't remember whether there was any chatter on him. From my perspective, we had such good potential candidates with local roots (Smith, Dutcher, Medved) that it didn't make sense to bring in someone that might, say, bolt to Notre Dame after two years.
 

formerlybis said:
Their arena is big enough, but they haven't drawn well. They also haven't had a winner, so maybe they will. Part of the issue is that State College is the smallest, most-isolated-from-the-population-centers campus in the B1G, and it's hard for people to get there on a Tuesday night (as opposed to a football Saturday). Still the student population is huge and they should be able to at least get them in (though that doesn't really help drive up the gross revenue because those are discounted rate tickets),

But compensation is just one factor, as I said originally. I think having all his rotation graduating is a bigger factor in that the iron may never be as hot as it is right now. If you're going to go, now is the time if you don't want to take the chance of backsliding and tarnish your marketability.
Click to expand...
All of this sounds correct and I agree.

I’m mainly just saying that Penn State could, if they felt strongly enough, match any dollar figure from ND, Gtown, or most anyone else.


They draw very well for womens volkeyball, which is a nationally competitive program, but the overall crow size is an orde of magnitude smaller than a big college bball crowd.

So no idea if they could consistently sell out 15k+ per home game for a winner.
 

Where can I see the Utah and Colorado State games to scout their coaches this weekend?
 

Gophers_4life said:
All of this sounds correct and I agree.

I’m mainly just saying that Penn State could, if they felt strongly enough, match any dollar figure from ND, Gtown, or most anyone else.


They draw very well for womens volkeyball, which is a nationally competitive program, but the overall crow size is an orde of magnitude smaller than a big college bball crowd.

So no idea if they could consistently sell out 15k+ per home game for a winner.
Click to expand...
Wow. Surprisingly less than 8K per game at home. Thought it would be higher.
 

Big Dawg said:
Wow. Surprisingly less than 8K per game at home. Thought it would be higher.
Click to expand...
No offense, but people who've watched the TV games at PSU since they joined the B1G would be unshocked at that. It's a notoriously cavernous environment, which is always weird for the visitors. They've started to take one of their B1G home games to the Palestra in Philly, which is smaller, but the energy is way higher and gives them exposure in a key recruiting ground.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom