The Brewster-Weber union.

[Ewert86PC]

Does anyone think Brewster is more or less subject to criticism because he has stuck with Weber for his tenure thus far?

 

[wdgold]

Does anyone think Brewster is more or less subject to criticism because he has stuck with Weber for his tenure thus far?

From what I saw saturday Weber is the least of my worries, at least for the moment.

 

[RodentRampage]

Quarterback controverseys are very, very common, they mean little. Weber was 10-17 against MTSU, and 21-31 against USD. Weber was not the problem.

 

[Ewert86PC]

But has Weber's lack of noticeable development become a subtle irritant in this hurricane of woe?

 

[SMU GOPHS FAN]

Weber hasn't been the problem. I personally feel people wouldn't have as big of an issue with Weber if Gray hadn't come in so overly hyped up.

 

[Tarver's Mustache Comb]

Does anyone think Brewster is more or less subject to criticism because he has stuck with Weber for his tenure thus far?

I think he's subject to more criticism because of it. For a couple of reasons:

1) We know what Weber is. He's an ok QB at best. He hasn't improved much over the 4 years he's been here. Is he the best player right now? Maybe, but he's gone after this year and we've got no one else with any experience for the following years. If this is a 3-4 win team like it looks to be, why not get a QB out there learning on the job?

2) Gray was a big time recruit. This spring was supposedly an "open" tryout at QB but I'm sure most of us knew this was just a ploy to motivate Weber and keep Gray happy. They've moved Gray to WR now and say he's still the backup and the QB of the future...we'll see I guess. I think that's a bad move in and of itself and would rather have him concentrating on one position. How many 4 star recruits are going to look at Gray's situation and say to themselves, "I better not go there"?

3) If Gray isn't ready or if he has no chance to be better than Weber out there, isn't that somewhat Brewster's fault too? The system (whatever it is this week) and player development are his responsibility, right? In fact, we've had some of the best recruiting classes in a long time with Brew, but are we seeing those players develop enough?

 

[metrolax]

My guess is that as long as the Gophers have a chance for a bowl game, Weber will
play. If/once they are mathematically eliminated from the postseason, you should start
to see Gray play.

IMHO, and for entertainment purposes only.....

 

[monk10]

This guy has a master's in communication, and he lists his favorite quote.

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[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Never stops being amusing

This debate never ceases to amaze me. Think about a couple of things in play here:

Fact 1 - Weber is a senior; Gray is a RS Soph
Fact 2 - Weber is a Mason recruit; Gray is a Brew recruit
Fact 3 - Brew is, by many naysayers account, coaching for his job this year
Fact 4 - The current coaching regime sees both of these guys every day, 2-4 hours per day, hours per day on film, for the better part of the last two years, while Joe Blow fan sees Gray for a handful of snaps last year and some snaps in Spring Ball.


I point to Items 2 and 3 in particular:

With Brew coaching for his job AND Gray being one of "his" guys instead of Weber, do any of you clowns think that if it was EVEN CLOSE that Brewster wouldn't be starting Gray instead of Weber??? Think about that for a minute. If it were even close, wouldn't Brewster want to sink or swim with "his guy"?

This debate only exists in the minds of the fans. Clearly for the coaching staff, there IS no debate. But wait, guy on his couch in his dorm/parents basement knows entirely more than the coaching staff who have been LIVING with these guys in practice for two years.

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

Does anyone think Brewster is more or less subject to criticism because he has stuck with Weber for his tenure thus far?

Brewster is subject to criticism because of his record. It's exacerbated because of his use of hyperbole, exaggeration and creating unreasonable expectations. It's further enhanced as a result of his lack of commitment to the new direction he so emphatically states each and every year (the speedy and dynamic spread, ooops I meant the Jedd Fisch pro-style offense, ooops I meant we gotta "pound the rock"). Moreover, he has been unable to recruit to the level most people assumed (rightly or wrongly) he could. Unfortunately, and perhaps unfairly (but this is open to debate), Tim Brewster has lost most of his credibility. The fact that he's stuck with Weber the last four years has not helped the situation, and may have made things slightly worse. Ironically, however (and we will never know the answer to this), sticking with Weber may have been the best decision he ever made. Had he gone with a different quarterback, his record may have been worse in which case he would, in theory, be subject to more criticism. On the other hand, it's also possible that a different quarterback may have brought the program more success. Again, with this we'll never know. I feel badly for Tim Brewster. No one with a heart and healthy mind wants to see another man fail.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I really don't think it matters at all. I'd prefer to see Gray as our QB, but our program wouldn't be in a different spot today either way.

We have a list of issues but we'd be 1-1 today regardless...

 

[Brew_recruit]

could you imagine if Rich Rod stuck with his "leader" at qb instead of going with Robinson.

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

I really don't think it matters at all. I'd prefer to see Gray as our QB, but our program wouldn't be in a different spot today either way.

We have a list of issues but we'd be 1-1 today regardless...

He didn't ask whether we'd be in a different spot or have a different record. He's talking about the level of criticism Brewster's endured for past three years.

 

[KoolAid]

This debate never ceases to amaze me. Think about a couple of things in play here:

Fact 1 - Weber is a senior; Gray is a RS Soph
Fact 2 - Weber is a Mason recruit; Gray is a Brew recruit
Fact 3 - Brew is, by many naysayers account, coaching for his job this year
Fact 4 - The current coaching regime sees both of these guys every day, 2-4 hours per day, hours per day on film, for the better part of the last two years, while Joe Blow fan sees Gray for a handful of snaps last year and some snaps in Spring Ball.


I point to Items 2 and 3 in particular:

With Brew coaching for his job AND Gray being one of "his" guys instead of Weber, do any of you clowns think that if it was EVEN CLOSE that Brewster wouldn't be starting Gray instead of Weber??? Think about that for a minute. If it were even close, wouldn't Brewster want to sink or swim with "his guy"?

This debate only exists in the minds of the fans. Clearly for the coaching staff, there IS no debate. But wait, guy on his couch in his dorm/parents basement knows entirely more than the coaching staff who have been LIVING with these guys in practice for two years.

You present a strong argument. I think you mispelled Grey and RaShead tho

 

[fej]

This debate never ceases to amaze me. Think about a couple of things in play here:

Fact 1 - Weber is a senior; Gray is a RS Soph
Fact 2 - Weber is a Mason recruit; Gray is a Brew recruit
Fact 3 - Brew is, by many naysayers account, coaching for his job this year
Fact 4 - The current coaching regime sees both of these guys every day, 2-4 hours per day, hours per day on film, for the better part of the last two years, while Joe Blow fan sees Gray for a handful of snaps last year and some snaps in Spring Ball.


I point to Items 2 and 3 in particular:

With Brew coaching for his job AND Gray being one of "his" guys instead of Weber, do any of you clowns think that if it was EVEN CLOSE that Brewster wouldn't be starting Gray instead of Weber??? Think about that for a minute. If it were even close, wouldn't Brewster want to sink or swim with "his guy"?

This debate only exists in the minds of the fans. Clearly for the coaching staff, there IS no debate. But wait, guy on his couch in his dorm/parents basement knows entirely more than the coaching staff who have been LIVING with these guys in practice for two years.

Ok I can't stand the "coaches see blah blah blah all of you are idiots, just follow fearless leader" stuff.

The physical skills of football = hard/impossible for the people in their "parents' basement and dorm" to replicate. Analyzing the sport = not nearly as hard. Especially with all of that time we have on our hands y'know, in our parents' basement.

Now am I saying "Joe Blow" fan, as you so gracefully put it, could be hired as the next U of M potential savior, absolutely not. But I'm certainly saying people can watch our RS Senior QB turn the ball over twice against USD on supremely stupid fumbles (but in no way was that loss on him, D 100%), preside over an offense that went games without scoring TD's last year, and struggle mightily with accuracy at key times throughout his career and not think that trying ANYTHING else may be a good idea.

There are things that even a total loser who lives in his parents' dorm room can see that make me question the infinite wisdom of Tim Brewster sticking with him--such as staring down WR's on the left while two WR's were uncovered on the right 5 yds into the route, which was on him completely(especially with a freaking D2 transition LB lined up over Troy at the snap).

Or throwing an (admittedly really nice) ball to the TE which he certainly could have caught, but with Brandon Green similarly open running 10 yards to the right in the same vision lane, why go to the JUCO TE? It's like a point guard getting the ball to the wrong shooter as time winds down on a snap judgement. Not 100% his fault, but the good players make that right decision. Some degenerates living in basements want to start getting Gray that time to learn those things, as the 5th year guy isn't showing that. That's a legit debate for the people that financially and fanatically support a struggling program to have.

Sometimes the person who isn't 100% responsible for a failure, but is the most visible component of system that is failing needs to go to allow everyone else a clean start.
This happens in every business setting, group, team, or whatever it is all of the time.

So to get back to the spirit of the thread from my out of left field rant here, I think it works both ways. Adam Weber takes more heat than he should from Brewster supporters that don't want to face that he isn't what a lot of people hoped he was going to be when he came here with his recruiting machine. Brewster takes a lot of extra heat from folks that see the physical skills of Gray, and are impatient.

Sticking with the face of the team while the team is below their expectations is just a symptom of whatever the problem with Brewster is that these folks have diagnosed."He's stupid" "He's hard headed" or whatever the specific is. Even if Brewster put Gray in, and he struggled, these people would return the heat to Brewster for being dumb enough to pull Weber while still wearing their "Bench Weber" shirts. It's just a neat riff for frustrated people to get on, while trying to smell what their parents' are cooking upstairs for dinner.

 

[Governor Sibley]

I thought the first mistake was teaching Weber (against his natural instincts) to stay in the pocket his Sophomore year. He was at his best when he was a threat to run. But they wanted to protect him.

 

[LaXGoph]

Pretty simple really, Horton doesn't know what to do with a qb like gray. That is why he is the back up.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

Weber was the least of our problems Saturday.

Biggest obstacle or area that opens up Brewster to criticism is not sticking to one philosophy and staying with it. Defense and first coordinators calls were far to complex for first year college coordinator, and the talent in place that he had to work with the first year was pretty limited, that should have been evident on film. That and so far not recruiting that one stud playmaker "tailback" that can elevate the rest of the talent around them like a Laurence Maroney or Marion Barber could. The Gophers land Lamichel James and games like Saturday never happens.

Then trying to force feed the spread from the beginning. Spread is used for weak O-lines like the cut-blocking zone block scheme we used with smaller O-line guy's in the past with power tailbacks, but with more of a running QB or pure passer , depends on your flavor of spread and scat backs that are extremely quick and elusive types. I understand Brewster wanted to go with what he knew, he learned from Brown and they went into North Carolina blowing everything up and changing from the very start. However, with our lack of paitence and perpensity to change coaches at Minnesota, this wholesale change might not have been the way to go starting off in a place you hardly know. Hindsight is easy after the fact and easy to say.

Dunbars insistence on going with a pure spread from the beginning hurt us, as this was really difficult because we did not have the tailback talent, WR or QB types to try and execute this version of the spread style to start.

You accept risk in trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. Coaches can only do so much with schemes, execution suffers if you do not have the talent to execute what you are setting the players up for and preparing them for. Mentally everything breaks down. The revolving coordinators and coaches, constant change has killed any momentumn that has been generated. Start with the spread and then recruit a bunch of players meant for the spread offense when you start your recruiting or your talent base. Struggle with it the second year so much that you change O-line coaches and Coordinators philosophies to a pro set POWER I offense.
Tailoring the "offense" or defense his first year to the talent level they had inherrited from the previous regime would have been prudent because they would likely have endured less losing and criticism from the media.

The change in philosophies have been in start stop reactionary mode or reverse of where you wanted them to be. Doing what they are doing now from the beginning would have allowed more success and more buy-in factor from the beginning for players, fans, media all of it at least I extrapolate that based on the success and struggles of last year. Now Brewster seems like he has a firm plan and is recruiting to that plan to execute in the future. Unfortunately the program is not at the point where the "depth" back up or less experience talent can overcome the loss of experienced players enduring suspensions, injuries or such. Coach Brewster and staff could use more time, I'm sure we have all been pretty emotional about losing to USD, as this clouds judgement and makes us all have the perception that were turning south or backwards in football quickly. Weber doesn't cost Brewster his job if that ultimately occurs it is START/STOP RESTART the constant change and consistent changes in philosophies.

 

[cncmin]

Ok I can't stand the "coaches see blah blah blah all of you are idiots, just follow fearless leader" stuff.

The physical skills of football = hard/impossible for the people in their "parents' basement and dorm" to replicate. Analyzing the sport = not nearly as hard. Especially with all of that time we have on our hands y'know, in our parents' basement.

Now am I saying "Joe Blow" fan, as you so gracefully put it, could be hired as the next U of M potential savior, absolutely not. But I'm certainly saying people can watch our RS Senior QB turn the ball over twice against USD on supremely stupid fumbles (but in no way was that loss on him, D 100%), preside over an offense that went games without scoring TD's last year, and struggle mightily with accuracy at key times throughout his career and not think that trying ANYTHING else may be a good idea.

There are things that even a total loser who lives in his parents' dorm room can see that make me question the infinite wisdom of Tim Brewster sticking with him--such as staring down WR's on the left while two WR's were uncovered on the right 5 yds into the route, which was on him completely(especially with a freaking D2 transition LB lined up over Troy at the snap).

Or throwing an (admittedly really nice) ball to the TE which he certainly could have caught, but with Brandon Green similarly open running 10 yards to the right in the same vision lane, why go to the JUCO TE? It's like a point guard getting the ball to the wrong shooter as time winds down on a snap judgement. Not 100% his fault, but the good players make that right decision. Some degenerates living in basements want to start getting Gray that time to learn those things, as the 5th year guy isn't showing that. That's a legit debate for the people that financially and fanatically support a struggling program to have.

Sometimes the person who isn't 100% responsible for a failure, but is the most visible component of system that is failing needs to go to allow everyone else a clean start.
This happens in every business setting, group, team, or whatever it is all of the time.

So to get back to the spirit of the thread from my out of left field rant here, I think it works both ways. Adam Weber takes more heat than he should from Brewster supporters that don't want to face that he isn't what a lot of people hoped he was going to be when he came here with his recruiting machine. Brewster takes a lot of extra heat from folks that see the physical skills of Gray, and are impatient.

Sticking with the face of the team while the team is below their expectations is just a symptom of whatever the problem with Brewster is that these folks have diagnosed."He's stupid" "He's hard headed" or whatever the specific is. Even if Brewster put Gray in, and he struggled, these people would return the heat to Brewster for being dumb enough to pull Weber while still wearing their "Bench Weber" shirts. It's just a neat riff for frustrated people to get on, while trying to smell what their parents' are cooking upstairs for dinner.

Very nice write-up, this pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. Yeah, we get it - the coaches see more than we do. But it doesn't take a coach to see that Weber - the Weber that Brewster put a system around - is a system in which our QB is playing nowhere near the level that a Big Ten QB, especially a 5th year senior, should be playing at. I respect Adam Weber for what he's done, but Brewster has been writing his ticket out of Minnesota because of his stubbornness in refusing to try something - ANYTHING - new to kickstart his Minnesota team. The team CANNOT be a good team and win many games with Adam Weber at QB. If the ship is sinking, why not try something - ANYTHING - to right it before it goes under?

 

[scools12]

The QB is not the problem. No matter how the season goes I still believe Brewster is not the right guy for the job. However, I will defend Brewster in this way in that the guy who hired him may have put him in a situation where the only thing Brewster could do was fail.

Can't remember but I would assume a search firm was was used whem looking for the new HC. Someone must have thought enough of Brewster to get him in the process and a interview with Maturi. The hiring of Brewster probably known was going to be a on the job learning process given Brewster's background. Brewster may in fact turn into a very good HC and I believe Brewster even stated running a college football program was his dream.

This is not meant to rip on any other school or conference but Brewster probably should have started as a HC in a school from a much smaller conference like the Sun Belt. He could have developed what type of team he wanted to coach, the style of offense and defense he wanted to run and the day to day duites of running a college program. Maturi probably hired a guy that might be able to do the job at some point but was given a job he just wasn't ready for yet.

 

[Tarver's Mustache Comb]

Originally Posted by fej View Post
Ok I can't stand the "coaches see blah blah blah all of you are idiots, just follow fearless leader" stuff.

Very nice write-up, this pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. Yeah, we get it - the coaches see more than we do. But it doesn't take a coach to see that Weber - the Weber that Brewster put a system around - is a system in which our QB is playing nowhere near the level that a Big Ten QB, especially a 5th year senior, should be playing at. I respect Adam Weber for what he's done, but Brewster has been writing his ticket out of Minnesota because of his stubbornness in refusing to try something - ANYTHING - new to kickstart his Minnesota team. The team CANNOT be a good team and win many games with Adam Weber at QB. If the ship is sinking, why not try something - ANYTHING - to right it before it goes under?

These fellow clowns get it. I'd open my basement to you two anytime.

 

[50PoundHead]

This guy has a master's in communication, and he lists his favorite quote.

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To the point of the thread, it is kind of ironic that Brewster seems dedicated to having his fate tied to Weber, a Mason recruit. I don't think it's that big a deal, but he has stuck with Weber through thick and thin.

At the risk of hijakcking the thread, is it too early to pump up the Palin/Davison ticket for 2012?

 

[mkAz]

This guy has a master's in communication, and he lists his favorite quote.

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Wow, he's intense, the Gophers should bring him in to talk to the team before Saturday's game.

 

[Halsey Hall]

The South Dakota qb, with one game's experience, was far superior to Weber, for crying out loud. SOuth Dakota's QB!!!!!!! I've been saying for 3 years Brew is going down the tubes riding Weber into the sewer.

 

[Section2]

It is OUTRAGEOUS that he didn't pull Weber for at least a half in one of the no touchdown games. Are we that afraid of Weber's ego? I don't see the downside. Gray plays poorly, Weber comes back in next game without the fans clamoring for the next big thing. Gray plays great, our team is better. Against a team like Penn St last year, what was the fear?

 

[The Brewmaster]

Weber's poor play in the first halves of the first two games are being overlooked. His inability to throw accurately 10-15 yards from scrimmage prevented the team from extending drives and putting points on the scoreboard. Even mediocre play by him the first half against MTSU puts the game away. He was similarly awful in the first half against SDU, stalling drives and helping lead to a first half deficit.

This post ultimately has nothing to do with Brewster, unless you blame Weber's first half woes on the coach. I'm just sick of people arguing that, based on his overall game stats, Weber is not the problem. He absolutely is.

 

[Section2]

Weber's poor play in the first halves of the first two games are being overlooked. His inability to throw accurately 10-15 yards from scrimmage prevented the team from extending drives and putting points on the scoreboard. Even mediocre play by him the first half against MTSU puts the game away. He was similarly awful in the first half against SDU, stalling drives and helping lead to a first half deficit.

This post ultimately has nothing to do with Brewster, unless you blame Weber's first half woes on the coach. I'm just sick of people arguing that, based on his overall game stats, Weber is not the problem. He absolutely is.

I agree. 90% of our losses the last 3 years you can blame on our offense. And 70% of our offense has been Weber. It's science.

 

[gophermartin]

This guy has a master's in communication, and he lists his favorite quote.

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Did he win? Wow...gov't is about service...politics is about winning. Love that.

Brewster is intense too....many recruits love it....even more would love it if he could pull off some big wins. I hope he can this year.

GM

 

[strokemonster]

Scools, good point. To get thrown into our situation with NO experience put Brewster in a hole from the beginning. I'm not a Brewster-basher but the results of Macturi's great experiment have been less than overwhelming and as you noted the fault lies with Macturi. He had his chance to put Gopher football back on the map and gambled on the unknown. Will Brewster have time to get us turned around? Nasty situation for all involved, including our fan base.

 

[jovs]

Weber and the offense played well for three quarters of the South Dakota game. That is what makes the loss so discouraging.