Thank You! Coach Johnson for Your Success Plan Underway!

Gopherfan84

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Searching for reasons/excuses why mn bb is in the current situation, that is what isn't debatable.
Then why engage in the discussion/debate.

History is history. You're using it as a crutch here. Examples of success rather quickly are available.
I’m not using it as a crutch. I still expect us to be better and have expectations. What our history tells me is why it may take longer. Again the portal has allowed for it to happen more quickly than it used to, but if you build a solid foundation then it may take more time. If that’s using it as a crutch in my acceptance of how poorly our team is performing then it’s a crutch.
 

Crappie

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Then why engage in the discussion/debate.


I’m not using it as a crutch. I still expect us to be better and have expectations. What our history tells me is why it may take longer. Again the portal has allowed for it to happen more quickly than it used to, but if you build a solid foundation then it may take more time. If that’s using it as a crutch in my acceptance of how poorly our team is performing then it’s a crutch.
Continue to downplay or ignore how it can be done quicker, and that includes the term "build".

Why not focus on how it can be done quicker instead of excuses for why it takes longer at Mn?
 

Gopherfan84

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Continue to downplay or ignore how it can be done quicker, and that includes the term "build".

Why not focus on how it can be done quicker instead of excuses for why it takes longer at Mn?
Because the person who we hired is choosing to not do it quicker and do it “the right way” in his words. I also have watched our last three coaches try and take shortcuts and it didn’t work. I’m willing to watch how he’s trying to do it. I’m annoyed with the mediocrity too, but I’d rather see it be something sustainable and in my beliefs that can’t always be done quickly here. I can appreciate that you believe differently.
 

Crappie

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Because the person who we hired is choosing to not do it quicker and do it “the right way” in his words. I also have watched our last three coaches try and take shortcuts and it didn’t work. I’m willing to watch how he’s trying to do it. I’m annoyed with the mediocrity too, but I’d rather see it be something sustainable and in my beliefs that can’t always be done quickly here. I can appreciate that you believe differently.
What shortcuts did Monson take?

And, cbj made choices. Thanks for admitting it. Others should take note. Johnson himself said there are no excuses.
 
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Wet_Blanket_Guy

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What shortcuts did Monson take?
And tubby? Both Monson and Tubby did not have the portal… they seem to have been building in the same way CBJ wants to (with high school recruits).

And the problem with their high end / elite top talent (humphries / Rickert), they left early (pryzbilla for monson). Could potentially be the same for Evans.
 


MennoSota

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And tubby? Both Monson and Tubby did not have the portal… they seem to have been building in the same way CBJ wants to (with high school recruits).

And the problem with their high end / elite top talent (humphries / Rickert), they left early (pryzbilla for monson). Could potentially be the same for Evans.
Do you work for HP?
 

BarnBurner

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What shortcuts did Monson take?

And, cbj made choices. Thanks for admitting it. Others should take note. Johnson himself said there are no excuses.
Im interested in the list of shortcuts that Monson chose. Lets here it 84.
 

Gopherfan84

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What shortcuts did Monson take?

And, cbj made choices. Thanks for admitting it. Others should take note. Johnson himself said there are no excuses.
Monson’s more had to do with taking some guys at the expense of the program (Humphries). Guy was a McDonalds AA, but he was a cancer. He took a lot to JUCO guys. He himself admitted that he never focused on culture enough in his interview.

I’ve never not admitted Ben has chosen this type of rebuild.
 

Gopherfan84

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And tubby? Both Monson and Tubby did not have the portal… they seem to have been building in the same way CBJ wants to (with high school recruits).

And the problem with their high end / elite top talent (humphries / Rickert), they left early (pryzbilla for monson). Could potentially be the same for Evans.
Tubby took some questionable recruits character wise and we saw that play out. Also tried to speed up the process with some jucos. I think this was intended as a soft landing to retirement for him. He didn’t work overly hard here especially once he got some pushback from admin.
 



Crappie

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Monson’s more had to do with taking some guys at the expense of the program (Humphries). Guy was a McDonalds AA, but he was a cancer. He took a lot to JUCO guys. He himself admitted that he never focused on culture enough in his interview.

I’ve never not admitted Ben has chosen this type of rebuild.
If Monson wouldn't have taken Humphries, you and every other Gopher fan would have roasted him. Just stop.
He got some good juco as well.

You've never not admitted it, and continue with excusing the current "build".
 

Gopherfan84

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If Monson wouldn't have taken Humphries, you and every other Gopher fan would have roasted him. Just stop.
Agreed terribly tough spot to be in. I wouldn’t have roasted him. I get why he took him, but it was at the expense of the locker room and that was well known. So I won’t stop when I knew it in 03. Some of the jucos worked out no doubt (Grier), but that’s typically a shortcut. You asked a question and got an answer.
He got some good juco as well.

You've never not admitted it, and continue with excusing the current "build".
Semantics here, but yes I’ve always admitted it. Critical of the defense on here last year well. Also believe in building programs, so yes I will use that word.
 

Crappie

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Agreed terribly tough spot to be in. I wouldn’t have roasted him. I get why he took him, but it was at the expense of the locker room and that was well known. So I won’t stop when I knew it in 03. Some of the jucos worked out no doubt (Grier), but that’s typically a shortcut. You asked a question and got an answer.

Semantics here, but yes I’ve always admitted it. Critical of the defense on here last year well. Also believe in building programs, so yes I will use that word.
Juco=portal in today's world.

Portal = shortcut.

Cbj used portal therefore shortcut.
 





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In all sports, it's always the same...win and the coach is a genius, lose and the coach is a bum. Period.

It's always like that. Only about 10% of fans have the patience to actually look at the details and assess if a coach is making a good effort to build a team. The rest simply lash out after every game and sling mud.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

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In all sports, it's always the same...win and the coach is a genius, lose and the coach is a bum. Period.

It's always like that. Only about 10% of fans have the patience to actually look at the details and assess if a coach is making a good effort to build a team. The rest simply lash out after every game and sling mud.
The bold part is how big money competitive sports work.
 



Wet_Blanket_Guy

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In all sports, it's always the same...win and the coach is a genius, lose and the coach is a bum. Period.

It's always like that. Only about 10% of fans have the patience to actually look at the details and assess if a coach is making a good effort to build a team. The rest simply lash out after every game and sling mud.
I would take an NCAA title or final four anyway possible and as quickly as possible. It’s been over a quarter century since the last one.

Honestly, I don’t care if they cheat. I’ve disassociated college athletics from academics and somewhat view them as minor leagues. Memphis cheated with Derrick Rose, and you know what, that was one of the most exciting teams I’ve watched in my lifetime. I wish I lived in Memphis to be in attendance for those games…or even the UNLV Runnin Rebels from the early 90s (you can’t tell me the barn / new arena wouldn’t be rocking if we had a team like that)…and I bet you would watch on tv or attend in-person.
 

Gopherfan84

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It looks like you are the one who stated shortcut and juco.
I did make that correlation first. That’s 100% true.
Dont really see how the portal is all that different, frankly. What are the differences between portal and juco in your opinion?
Goes back to why they were in JUCO in the first place. Most kids are in JUCO because they had issues academically or character wise. The others just were not recruited. Kids in the portal got into a D1 institution and were recruited there. That’s the main difference imo. Doesn’t mean all JUCOs aren’t worth taking (Greir for example). They both are similar in most cases cause they are used to fill roster holes
 
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Crappie

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I did make that correlation first. That’s 100% true.

Goes back to why they were in JUCO in the first place. Most kids are in JUCO because they had issues academically or character wise. The others just were not recruited. Kids in the portal got into a D1 institution and were recruited there. That’s the main difference imo. Doesn’t mean all JUCOs aren’t worth taking (Greir for example). They both are similar in most cases cause they are used to filed roaster holes
Looking like your eyes see what my eyes see. Subtle differences.

Portal = Juco
 

MNJay

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I would take an NCAA title or final four anyway possible and as quickly as possible. It’s been over a quarter century since the last one.

Honestly, I don’t care if they cheat. I’ve disassociated college athletics from academics and somewhat view them as minor leagues. Memphis cheated with Derrick Rose, and you know what, that was one of the most exciting teams I’ve watched in my lifetime. I wish I lived in Memphis to be in attendance for those games…or even the UNLV Runnin Rebels from the early 90s (you can’t tell me the barn / new arena wouldn’t be rocking if we had a team like that)…and I bet you would watch on tv or attend in-person.
We agree on this. I'd have kept Haskins and kept that team intact. I'd have added Royce White & Trevor Mbakwe to our NCAA team that returned its top 9 players. I'd have kept Reggie Lynch.

I'm not yet on board though with turning college sports into a total joke. As in setting up a huge Sleaze Fund and buying players for millions of dollars. I might draw the line there.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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We agree on this. I'd have kept Haskins and kept that team intact. I'd have added Royce White & Trevor Mbakwe to our NCAA team that returned its top 9 players. I'd have kept Reggie Lynch.

I'm not yet on board though with turning college sports into a total joke. As in setting up a huge Sleaze Fund and buying players for millions of dollars. I might draw the line there.
You would keep Lynch but think a NIL fund is sleazy?

Unique take.
 

MNJay

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You would keep Lynch but think a NIL fund is sleazy?

Unique take.
Yup. I'm for innocent until proven guilty. Or I'd at least want a police or hospital report. Not simply an allegation.

And I think buying players makes a total mockery of college sports. The only reason we don't think it's totally absurd is because smiling faces in suits-&-ties in the media tell us it's good. People are sheep and believe literally anything they're told.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Yup. I'm for innocent until proven guilty. Or I'd at least want a police or hospital report. Not simply an allegation.

And I think buying players makes a total mockery of college sports. The only reason we don't think it's totally absurd is because smiling faces in suits-&-ties in the media tell us it's good. People are sheep and believe literally anything they're told.
No one is really that except for the court of law. I doubt you'd be cool with OJ Simpson or Casey Anthony being representatives of the university. It's not only weird but it's dumb to hold people personally accountable at the same standard as legally accountable. With Reggie Lynch, there were many allegations, he was arrested and therefore there is a police report. You could probably find it with minimal amount of searching. You should be able to use a little common sense.

How do you know the NIL funds aren't legit? Has that been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that these aren't used properly? You're not playing 4D chess by thinking the NIL payments are absurd. You haven't cracked some form of sacred geometry.

It's not good for college sports. However, it's much better for college sports than having a rapist playing for your team.
 

WoodburyTim

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I just saw this. I think a pledge or an oath is a great idea. Have we thought at all about bracelets or maybe pins for our jackets? I know Mennosota is in. Who else?
 

MNJay

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No one is really that except for the court of law. I doubt you'd be cool with OJ Simpson or Casey Anthony being representatives of the university. It's not only weird but it's dumb to hold people personally accountable at the same standard as legally accountable. With Reggie Lynch, there were many allegations, he was arrested and therefore there is a police report. You could probably find it with minimal amount of searching. You should be able to use a little common sense.

How do you know the NIL funds aren't legit? Has that been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that these aren't used properly? You're not playing 4D chess by thinking the NIL payments are absurd. You haven't cracked some form of sacred geometry.

It's not good for college sports. However, it's much better for college sports than having a rapist playing for your team.
No, Reggie Lynch was not arrested.

I'll never forget the night my friend messaged me on Facebook that Lynch was kicked out. Pitino's best team ruined, suddenly, out-of-nowhere. I immediately went onto the Rivals Gopher board that I was a member of since 2003...but I was kicked out too. Banned. Preemptive strike. They knew I'd GO OFF on our administration for purposely sabotaging the BB team whenever they're good.
 
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Bob_Loblaw

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No, Reggie Lynch was not arrested.

I'll never forget the night my friend messaged me on Facebook that Lynch was kicked out. Pitino's best team ruined, suddenly, out-of-nowhere. I immediately went onto the Rivals Gopher board that I was a member of since 2003...but I was kicked out too. Banned. Preemptive strike. They knew I'd GO OFF on our administration for purposely sabotaging the BB team whenever they're good.
Reggie Lynch was arrested for sexual assault.

It also did not come "suddenly, out of no-where". He was accused of sexual assault in 2016 and arrested. He returned to the team and then a year later he was accused of multiple additional sexual assaults. I know it can be confusing with him because he was accused of so many different sexual assaults throughout his time here, it's hard to keep them straight but he most certainly was arrested.

As far as you get kicked off a message board for your rape apology, yeah I'm sure you made quite the name for yourself over there.

 

Bob_Loblaw

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Because the person who we hired is choosing to not do it quicker and do it “the right way” in his words. I also have watched our last three coaches try and take shortcuts and it didn’t work. I’m willing to watch how he’s trying to do it. I’m annoyed with the mediocrity too, but I’d rather see it be something sustainable and in my beliefs that can’t always be done quickly here. I can appreciate that you believe differently.
He does go back and forth on this though.

Why did he bring on so many transfers last year? Why did he not give Thiam and Thompson more run last year? Instead of all those minutes to Sutherlin, Stephens, and Willis, why didn't he bring in and take a run on some FR wing/pg?

We were told on one hand he is doing this intentionally slow. While I disagree with that strategy, it's a strategy. But then on the other hand, he brought in 7 transfers last year and barely played his FR.


Lastly, we aren't mediocre. We're a bad Big 10 basketball team. That's okay if it's part of a process that gets us somewhere greater, but we can't hide from what we are now, a bad basketball team.
 

bga1

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He does go back and forth on this though.

Why did he bring on so many transfers last year? Why did he not give Thiam and Thompson more run last year? Instead of all those minutes to Sutherlin, Stephens, and Willis, why didn't he bring in and take a run on some FR wing/pg?

We were told on one hand he is doing this intentionally slow. While I disagree with that strategy, it's a strategy. But then on the other hand, he brought in 7 transfers last year and barely played his FR.


Lastly, we aren't mediocre. We're a bad Big 10 basketball team. That's okay if it's part of a process that gets us somewhere greater, but we can't hide from what we are now, a bad basketball team.
Ben's strategy is absolutely the right one for 2010. Today it is much more difficult to sustain a build from scratch. Players are free to go to greener pastures if the losing gets to them. Fans expect quicker improvement because they see other teams go to the portal and turn things around quickly. He has one more year to show that he has this thing ready to roll. After that his momentum and sales pitch of building a big winner, are lost.

Worse yet he already faces a critical period with the fall signings for the 2024 class. The data set those recruits have is this year. How does he make them believe that we are close to winning if we finish 2-18 in the Big Ten? That's why this strategy is so risky in this crazy free agency era. I hope it works out.
 




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