Team Assessmemt

[Gopherguy0723]

Depth of talent affects team endurance. It's a long season. Flashes in the pan don't get it done. The cream rises to the top. No savagery intended it is just the reality we are faced with right now. That said I am encouraged and optimistic for the future. I like Pitino.

Nailed it.

 

[howieramone]

You may have just proven yourself one of the more sane posters on this site.

The fact is that Austin has had two terrible Big Ten seasons in a row, under two coaches. He played like a sloppy freshman today. Love him, but he's been killing us lately.....

Dre is hurt. It's not as if he's been the drive-hard-to-the-rack guy his whole career. He has always had some tentativeness to his game and why it's best for him to not be the PG - even though that's his only shot at the pro level. I would say that he and Deandre don't have a great rapport, though, and I'm not sure why.

+1 I think we will see it when they step out on the court next season.

 

[howieramone]

Depth of talent affects team endurance. It's a long season. Flashes in the pan don't get it done. The cream rises to the top. No savagery intended it is just the reality we are faced with right now. That said I am encouraged and optimistic for the future. I like Pitino.

+1

 

[Winasota Gopher]

We've been scouted

OP is waaaay to harsh. If every b1g 10 team is a top 25 team, yeah maybe you've got the truth there, but if anyone could argue with a straight face that EE or MO doesn't start on 50% of the B1G you're crazy. At a minimum one or the other, depending on the need, is starting.

What we are dealing with is called "the process", for any of you that have coached middle school ball you've likely run into this before. Richard Pitino is trying to force his brand of basketball with a very limited cast much like a middle school coach does with a team full of kids that aren't ready to run a particular offensive style.

He's half a$$ing his pressure defense and his "Sprint out" high ball screen with a bunch of people that don't have the skill set to do either.

Tell me, do you think the word "Sprint" is at all in the skill set of Oto, Joey, Mo or EE? Absolutely not, so what you've lost is the positive from that style and the big cannot create separation from his defender. The on ball defender now can pressure over the top without fear of loosing his man. This is an absolute worst case scenario with a 5'9" pg as we've lost absolutely every counter to a failed screen. scouted

2nd problem is we are unbelievably cold from beyond the arc, one because teams have learned to close out hard due to the fact they know Joey, Oto, Andre, and Austin are all scared sh1tless to go to the hole. The other two guards that are dual threats out there are 1, cold as all hell, or two playing rather confused right now. Scouted.

None of our guards, except Dre, can pressure another guard in the Big10 full court and cause concern, so what happens? Teams bring the ball up with their 2 guard, centers, or power forwards... Press broken. scouted

There are various other instances, but those are the biggest changes from beginning of the year to now. During the beginning of the year we struggled mightily learning the concepts and adapting to the new faces/styles. Midpoint of the year we figured it all out and had the advantage of something "new" to the big 10. We caught powerhouse teams off guard and we all felt that we had something special going on. What then happened is people figured out our tendencies and are now game planning against our weaknesses. I don't predict the last couple games will be very pretty either, except in a game against a poor Penn State team.

The other thing that is annoying that I keep reading is "why doesn't Pitino adjust"? The question I would pose to those that ask that, is this... What exactly else could this team do? We are devoid of shooters, we are devoid of people that can get to the rim off the dribble without turning it over, and we are way too turnover prone to push tempo. So what is left after teams take away our high screen and roll and take away our low post size with ball pressure (which solves both of those quite handily)??? We are a flawed team.

Silver lining: we get 5 minimum new faces next year and another 4 the year after. Pitino couldn't really ask for a much better situation form a roster turnover perspective. I fear it might be a bit fast for him as I think he's going to struggle getting people to buy into the system after the end of this season. We get arguably 4 of our best 5 players coming back next year along with some players (hopefully) that can finish above the rim, which, by the way is one of our most underrated weaknesses we have to have the least # of dunks in Big 10 this year. In 3 years he'll have 8 guys with multiple years under his system and should be the year for him.

Sorry for the long post, I'm still happy with this team, but get as frustrated as each of you while watching. You have to remember how flawed this team is, and quit comparing what Tubby did or what Tubby would have done or what Tubby is doing now. Pitino is playing with someone else's players, and as we all said when Tubby was fired, if it didn't happen last year it definitely would happen this year with how poorly the roster was put together. Adding a Tubby reject, a Moorehead St walkon, an FIU recruit and an FIU 1 year starter don't change things drastically. This is a coach killing roster, be happy with what we have gotten to this point and see the forest amongst the trees.

 

[bemidjigopher]

You are emotional tonight. Stop posting the rest of the night, and go drink a six-pack. Then go to bed.

You are making a fool of yourself tonight. Walk away from the computer and regroup tomorrow before people start losing all respect for you.

Is this sarcasm? They get very little help on defense from King/Oto. I miss Mbakwe and Williams

 

[bemidjigopher]

This is silly. This team was 4-3 looking at 7-3 and choked. Some of it is because players who were playing over their head regressed (Oto, EE, Smith). Some of it is our best player being hurt. Some of it is bad luck/officiating (as bad as things seem now, how different would be feel if we got 2 calls/bounces vs NW and Purdue).

This team was good enough to make the NCAA's and they appear to have blown it, though they still have a chance to save themselves. There's nothing to be gained by bitter revisionist savaging of the roster.

They were never looking at 7-3 without Dre, it was absurd that posters thought we could insert Malik and go off like that. We should've beat Northwestern still, but those two road losses we weren't gonna win without a healthy Dre, people forget how hard it is to win at Mackey

 

[howeda7]

Depth of talent affects team endurance. It's a long season. Flashes in the pan don't get it done. The cream rises to the top. No savagery intended it is just the reality we are faced with right now. That said I am encouraged and optimistic for the future. I like Pitino.

I understand that. But Dre, Austin, Elliot and Little Dre are all legit B1G starters. Period. To suggest otherwise at this point is bitter revisionist history and not based on facts. Yes, Oto and Joey should not be playing on a good B1G team, but we've all known this for months.

 

[howeda7]

They were never looking at 7-3 without Dre, it was absurd that posters thought we could insert Malik and go off like that. We should've beat Northwestern still, but those two road losses we weren't gonna win without a healthy Dre, people forget how hard it is to win at Mackey

To be clear, without Dre that was never realistic. But they still should have beaten NW at home and would have won at Mackey with another call or two. To now go back and say we suck and our roster has awful talent is just stupid.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

I understand that. But Dre, Austin, Elliot and Little Dre are all legit B1G starters. Period. To suggest otherwise at this point is bitter revisionist history and not based on facts. Yes, Oto and Joey should not be playing on a good B1G team, but we've all known this for months.

What does your accurate assessment of 4 out of our starting 5 being legit starters have to do with our lack of depth?

 

[book]

Hopefully, we see progress like Kill has done with football. looking forward to the Wash. kid next year playing with a healthy Dre, Mo and little dre...

 

[howeda7]

What does your accurate assessment of 4 out of our starting 5 being legit starters have to do with our lack of depth?

Because the OP is trying to say that only 2/5 of our starting line-up are starting B1G players and that's garbage. In addition, McNeil, Smith and Mo could come off the bench for most B1G teams. This team has a glaring, gaping hole at the 4 spot. It is not one of the 4 least talented rosters in the B1G right now, much less as terrible as the OP tries to make it sound.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

I understand that. But Dre, Austin, Elliot and Little Dre are all legit B1G starters. Period. To suggest otherwise at this point is bitter revisionist history and not based on facts. Yes, Oto and Joey should not be playing on a good B1G team, but we've all known this for months.

No it's not. Austin was terrible in the conference last season as well. EE hasn't been any better.

You are wearing maroon tinted glasses. Good teams don't lack this much talent.

 

[howeda7]

No it's not. Austin was terrible in the conference last season as well. EE hasn't been any better.

You are wearing maroon tinted glasses. Good teams don't lack this much talent.

I'm not saying we're 'good' or that EE and Austin aren't frustrating. I'm saying the OP makes it sound like Pitino is being asked to carve Mount Rushmore with a spoon and that's not true.

We have more talent than Nebraska. They're probably going to make the NCAAs and we won't. That's disappointing to me. My goal for the season was to at least have hope on Selection Sunday. That may still happen. But if it doesn't, I'm going to be disappointed that we didn't play better, not saying 'well, our talent was too horrible to have a chance.'

 

[bemidjigopher]

To be clear, without Dre that was never realistic. But they still should have beaten NW at home and would have won at Mackey with another call or two. To now go back and say we suck and our roster has awful talent is just stupid.

Not saying we suck at all, in fact I said we should've beaten Northwestern I just feel at the time people didn't realize how big of a deal not having a healthy Andre Hollins would be. I thought if everything went right we could win at Purdue and Nebraska, but losing Dre was turned out to be too much for this team to overcome, doesn't mean they can't beat Iowa at home or beat PSU, or some how win in Ann Arbor. Perhaps I could've been more clear as well.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Depth of talent affects team endurance. It's a long season. Flashes in the pan don't get it done. The cream rises to the top. No savagery intended it is just the reality we are faced with right now. That said I am encouraged and optimistic for the future. I like Pitino.

I understand that. But Dre, Austin, Elliot and Little Dre are all legit B1G starters. Period. To suggest otherwise at this point is bitter revisionist history and not based on facts. Yes, Oto and Joey should not be playing on a good B1G team, but we've all known this for months.

Because the OP is trying to say that only 2/5 of our starting line-up are starting B1G players and that's garbage. In addition, McNeil, Smith and Mo could come off the bench for most B1G teams. This team has a glaring, gaping hole at the 4 spot. It is not one of the 4 least talented rosters in the B1G right now, much less as terrible as the OP tries to make it sound.

I dont think that's what Saint Louis Gopher was saying. He was saying that the lack of depth is why we saw flashes of greatness but now later in the season we are fading.

 

[howieramone]

I wouid sign Eubanks and Piper, then give Morris the bad news that he doesn't qualify to get admitted to the U. With little or no film, I have no idea on the bigs, but would sign the best one we can knowing he will probably be redshirted. If perchance we sign a big who can give us immediate minutes at F-C, happy days. If we can't get both wings, I'd look for a graduate transfer, or a transfer due to a coaching change etc. None of these things are easy to do, but Coach P. and staff are not going to be content sitting on the bubble, bubble and risking going 0-2.

Coaching in the B1G and at Minnesota has been a learning experience for Coach P. and staff. I've seen far more good than bad.

 

[howieramone]

I understand that. But Dre, Austin, Elliot and Little Dre are all legit B1G starters. Period. To suggest otherwise at this point is bitter revisionist history and not based on facts. Yes, Oto and Joey should not be playing on a good B1G team, but we've all known this for months.

+1

 

[GopherJake]

I dont think that's what Saint Louis Gopher was saying. He was saying that the lack of depth is why we saw flashes of greatness but now later in the season we are fading.

Here's a list of guys that were having good seasons that aren't any more:

Number One with a Bullet: Austin Hollins
2. EE
3. Malik
4. Oto

Here's a list of guys that have been hampered by injury:

1. Dre

Here's a list of guys that have exceeded my expectations:

1. Deandre
2. Joey (I had zero expectations)

Do the math.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

I'm not saying we're 'good' or that EE and Austin aren't frustrating. I'm saying the OP makes it sound like Pitino is being asked to carve Mount Rushmore with a spoon and that's not true.

We have more talent than Nebraska. They're probably going to make the NCAAs and we won't. That's disappointing to me. My goal for the season was to at least have hope on Selection Sunday. That may still happen. But if it doesn't, I'm going to be disappointed that we didn't play better, not saying 'well, our talent was too horrible to have a chance.'

Nope. Nebraska has equal or more talent. Petteway will be first team Big Ten. I doubt we have anyone who will make any of the three teams. Mathieu will probably get honorable mention.

 

[howeda7]

I dont think that's what Saint Louis Gopher was saying. He was saying that the lack of depth is why we saw flashes of greatness but now later in the season we are fading.

It's not like we're playing 6 guys. McNeil, Malik and Mo are not terrible depth. The crater at the 4 spot is far more of an issue than depth, IMO. If Rakeem Buckles is here and Dre stays healthy, we win 9-11 B1G games.

 

[SaintLouisGopher]

I dont think that's what Saint Louis Gopher was saying. He was saying that the lack of depth is why we saw flashes of greatness but now later in the season we are fading.

That is what I was saying. Another poster mentioned scouting as reason and I agree with that as well. It's really a number of things. Several good points have been made in this thread.

I agree that we have 4 big ten starters. The problem is that none of them are performing as upper tier big ten starters for whatever reason. I know Eliot had some nice numbers at one point but it seems he has fallen off. Forgive me if I am incorrect here I haven't looked at stats recently. I am just going off what I see on the floor.

I think you need at least two upper tier starters to be a serious contender. That combined with our lack of bench depth and we are right where we belong.

 

[We're Comin']

Our half court defense was sound tonight, but we didn't get to play it much in the 2nd half. We would miss or turnover and they would kills us in transition. Our offensive flow was bad....we needed our leaders to step up and hit a shot or get to the free throw line. Neither happened.

 

[golfing18now]

I think we need to keep in mind that we are two games away from sitting at 8-7 and being one win against Penn State away from punching our ticket to the tournament. If that had happened, most of us would have been thrilled and excited about the future. The Gophers have been blown out in a total of two games all year. A Mo Walker lay-up against Northwestern and an "and one" for Dre at Michigan State and the whole perception changes. Or the Purdue game or the Michigan game. We aren't that far away. I think it is really important to fill those last two scholarships with some of the names that are being kicked around and then let's play.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

It's not like we're playing 6 guys. McNeil, Malik and Mo are not terrible depth. The crater at the 4 spot is far more of an issue than depth, IMO. If Rakeem Buckles is here and Dre stays healthy, we win 9-11 B1G games.

They aren't good depth either... While I agree with you we have 4 legit starters and Mo is a highly capable first guy off the bench, I don't think we have anywhere near the same comments to make about our 5th starter (the 4 we agree is a major flaw and pretty much the single most important issue) or our 7th 8th or 9th players. I like McNeil, I'll like him more in 2 years when he does more than nothing wrong.

We are what we are, flawed. I love our guys and loved their effort earlier in the year, they are running out of gas. I like where the program is going, and I like the vision. We just need the pieces.

 

[gopherlaney]

Amir Williams- Back up
Shannon Scott Back up
Craft- Great college player getting exposed a bit this year with less talent around him.
Smith Jr- 6th man
Shannon Scott- 6th man
Go that looks like Screech- deep back up...

You could do this with 8 0f 12 Big Team teams..

Amir Williams - McDonals All American
Scott, Craft, Smith Jr all top 100. If anything this shows Pitino has done more with less than Thad in splitting with them this year.

 

[ethomasp31]

Nice try but your post is absurd.

Amir Williams - Consensus Top 50 player out of high school
Shanon Scott - Consensus Top 50 player out of high school
LaQuinton Ross - Consensus Top 50 player out of high school
Sam Thompson - Consensus Top 50 player out of high school
Marc Loving - Consensus Top 75 player out of high school
Kameron Williams - Consensus Top 100 player out of high school

And they have at least 3 recruits coming in next year on the list.

This is from http://www.rscihoops.com/ which averages player rankings from 6 or 7 well-known recruiting sites.

Look up how many gophers on this current team are on there. If Ohio State has been under-performing that is on Matta. Sure some of their recruits may have been overrated or are not living up to their potential but to downplay Ohio State's overall talent in comparison to the gophers is laughable. And 8 of 12 is right....about 8 of 12 Big Ten teams have extremely more talented rosters than the gophers.

That is true every year with Ohio State, Michigan State and Michigan and most years with Indiana as well. Our talent is right where we have been finishing in the B1G. Most fans seem to over estimate there own talent while under estimating the rest of the conferences conference....except for this year when some people on this board make it seem like our talent is on par with Mankato State.

 

[ethomasp31]

I think we need to keep in mind that we are two games away from sitting at 8-7 and being one win against Penn State away from punching our ticket to the tournament. If that had happened, most of us would have been thrilled and excited about the future. The Gophers have been blown out in a total of two games all year. A Mo Walker lay-up against Northwestern and an "and one" for Dre at Michigan State and the whole perception changes. Or the Purdue game or the Michigan game. We aren't that far away. I think it is really important to fill those last two scholarships with some of the names that are being kicked around and then let's play.

Yeah and the Vikings were only a handful of plays away from winning the division too. I'm sorry....but you are what your record says....no better....no worse. I'm sure you could find plenty of games they won where there were "if's, and's and but's" that they could have lost too.

 

[zambam]

If everybody here was being honest with themselves, would anyone really say they expected more from this team? My expectations coming in were potential NIT berth and an introduction to Pitino's system. It was pretty obvious that this team lacked talent, and that has become even more obvious if you are like me and think Deandre has been the best player this year. Tubby left the cupboards pretty bare, outside of Dre and Austin (the latter of which has not been playing well at all this year).

 

[Lincoln gopher]

Nope. Nebraska has equal or more talent. Petteway will be first team Big Ten. I doubt we have anyone who will make any of the three teams. Mathieu will probably get honorable mention.

Totally agree with, I sure didn't think that way at the start of the year. Nebraska has totally bought into Miles system and Petteway is way better than anyone thought. He is even being mentioned for POY consideration. Shield and Pitchford has developed nicely and Webster is starting to figure things out. They are all underclassmen and will be back. I say all this with disgust as it is hard living here and having Nebraska basketball better than the Gophers at this time

 

[goldengophers]

Totally agree with, I sure didn't think that way at the start of the year. Nebraska has totally bought into Miles system and Petteway is way better than anyone thought. He is even being mentioned for POY consideration. Shield and Pitchford has developed nicely and Webster is starting to figure things out. They are all underclassmen and will be back. I say all this with disgust as it is hard living here and having Nebraska basketball better than the Gophers at this time

Tim Miles is a very good coach, don't let his nice and humble disposition fool you into thinking he's not. I really like the Pitino system but as many have said we need higher end forwards and shooters to compete at a higher level.