Teague WILL Make His Mark Here - Especially Basketball - Both Programs

[spermophilus]

4 things have to happen.

1. New practice facility - NT can't do this unilaterally, but will (continue to) greatly influence.
2. Hire a new women's coach. NT could do it alone, but a certain village idiot has complicated the matter.
3. Barring a profound turn-around in play in the post-season (I no longer believe it possible; my heart says keep Orlando, but my head, and those stubborn results/facts - including that my eyes are still working, scream something altogether different), new leadership/a new voice is needed at the top for the men. NT can do this, as long as buy-out money is found, which is undoubtedly getting to be an easier task by the day. My belly, as it must be for the rational fan, is completely full of never finishing above the waterline - after SIX years - in conference play, no B1G title sniffs, and ZERO wins in the Big Dance.
4. NT's predecessor must be exiled from any contact with anyone in, or influence on any aspect of, any Minnesota athletic program. He is free to buy tickets like any other citizen, I suppose, but that is it. NT must be the face of the department, without ANY shadows or vestiges lingering around campus.

C'mon Norwood, lots and lots of alums and Gopher fans are rooting for you. I, and those alums and fans, have much confidence in you. You no doubt, on a variety of fronts, have a delicate hand to play - but play it. You are the AD. Lead.

To mix metaphors/quotes: " . . . the (Gopher) nation turns its lonely (and exhausted) eyes to you. Woo-woo-woo . . . "

 

[bemidjigopher]

The buyout money plus the money for a new coach, that's money that could pay for a significant chunk of the practice facility. The practice facility should be priorities 1-50 right now for Norwood

 

[station19]

The buyout money plus the money for a new coach, that's money that could pay for a significant chunk of the practice facility. The practice facility should be priorities 1-50 right now for Norwood

How does the money for a new coach factor in?

 

[GopherGod]

I am curious where all this money is supposedly going to come from to get the practice facility and buyout another coach. The athletic department is still paying off loans to the general university funds for the last few buyouts and still after 6 years have no practice facility. This appears to be an athletic department that is far from flush with funds. When you add in the football UNC buyout, the secret Borton extension, the excessive administrative costs of the university, and it makes for a hugh PR nightmare with the legislature and the public to buyout another coach that the athletic department cannot fund on their own.

 

[vagopher]

The buyout money plus the money for a new coach, that's money that could pay for a significant chunk of the practice facility. The practice facility should be priorities 1-50 right now for Norwood

+1

 

[goldengophers]

I am curious where all this money is supposedly going to come from to get the practice facility and buyout another coach. The athletic department is still paying off loans to the general university funds for the last few buyouts and still after 6 years have no practice facility. This appears to be an athletic department that is far from flush with funds. When you add in the football UNC buyout, the secret Borton extension, the excessive administrative costs of the university, and it makes for a hugh PR nightmare with the legislature and the public to buyout another coach that the athletic department cannot fund on their own.

A new President and AD certainly help to soften that blow...

 

[spermophilus]

The buyout money plus the money for a new coach, that's money that could pay for a significant chunk of the practice facility. The practice facility should be priorities 1-50 right now for Norwood

True 'nuff . . . but sometimes it can cost you more money in the long run by not spending it now. I know, I know, source, right?

At this point, staying put could mean 4 years just for the potential of a turn-around (another year of sameness and mediocrity, and then - even and if you make a good and right hire - 2-3 years for the next guy to fully implement (see: Crean, et al).

Just sayin'.

That is also why I referenced the "delicate hand". Teague walked into a mess on the hoops front, no doubt. Probably why he was an appealing candidate. In this "I want it now"/"Veruca Salt" society in which we live, we all want things to turn or get fixed overnight, but change often is a long laborious slog.

Very evident on the football side, usually more like turning around of a supertanker at sea - and that ship had no running engines or working rudders following the previous "regime" and when Kill grabbed the wheel. More like turning a 3-master in hoops, because 2-3 players a year over 2-3 years, in the right system, and it can be done. Not saying it is easy, just easier than in FB, IMHO and theoretically.

 

[GopherGod]

A new President and AD certainly help to soften that blow...

I don't know about that, considering a lot of those issues i mentioned either originated or have been continued and defended by Kaler.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

True 'nuff . . . but sometimes it can cost you more money in the long run by not spending it now. I know, I know, source, right?

At this point, staying put could mean 4 years just for the potential of a turn-around (another year of sameness and mediocrity, and then - even and if you make a good and right hire - 2-3 years for the next guy to fully implement (see: Crean, et al).

Just sayin'.

That is also why I referenced the "delicate hand". Teague walked into a mess on the hoops front, no doubt. Probably why he was an appealing candidate. In this "I want it now"/"Veruca Salt" society in which we live, we all want things to turn or get fixed overnight, but change often is a long laborious slog.

Very evident on the football side, usually more like turning around of a supertanker at sea - and that ship had no running engines or working rudders following the previous "regime" and when Kill grabbed the wheel. More like turning a 3-master in hoops, because 2-3 players a year over 2-3 years, in the right system, and it can be done. Not saying it is easy, just easier than in FB, IMHO and theoretically.

Agree hoops is easier than football based on numbers, but TCF bank by most accounts has not helped recruits, so to automatically believe that a practice facility would drastically improve basketball recruiting is a pretty big assumption. Also, the BB team has not won an NCAA game in what, 23 years? They have been to the tournament 7 times in the history of the program (excluding the removed years). There is really nothing to build on, and unless you can convince a couple hometown heroes to stay home, I think this is what you get with MN BB...the same thing you have had for 30 years. Some decent teams and some bad ones, maybe once a decade you advance deep in the tournament. Thats probably the ceiling for the program, IMO...

 

[bemidjigopher]

How does the money for a new coach factor in?

I'm saying the money it would take to fire Tubby 2.5 Million? plus the salary we would pay for the next coach is money we should be putting towards the facility not a fourth buyout on the payroll

 

[bemidjigopher]

True 'nuff . . . but sometimes it can cost you more money in the long run by not spending it now. I know, I know, source, right?

At this point, staying put could mean 4 years just for the potential of a turn-around (another year of sameness and mediocrity, and then - even and if you make a good and right hire - 2-3 years for the next guy to fully implement (see: Crean, et al).

Just sayin'.

That is also why I referenced the "delicate hand". Teague walked into a mess on the hoops front, no doubt. Probably why he was an appealing candidate. In this "I want it now"/"Veruca Salt" society in which we live, we all want things to turn or get fixed overnight, but change often is a long laborious slog.

Very evident on the football side, usually more like turning around of a supertanker at sea - and that ship had no running engines or working rudders following the previous "regime" and when Kill grabbed the wheel. More like turning a 3-master in hoops, because 2-3 players a year over 2-3 years, in the right system, and it can be done. Not saying it is easy, just easier than in FB, IMHO and theoretically.

I agree with that if the team is losing, I think in two years if Tubby strikes out on the big three and we are having another February skid the Barn could become a ghost town like at the end of the Monson era. Of course attendance was bad this year in the non conference schedule. But will see.

 

[bemidjigopher]

Let me be clear a practice facility won't give us an advantage it will put us on par, but if were serious about winning and making money in the athletic department and using our revenue sports to market the university we can't afford to fall farther behind the eight ball.

 

[howeda7]

I'm saying the money it would take to fire Tubby 2.5 Million? plus the salary we would pay for the next coach is money we should be putting towards the facility not a fourth buyout on the payroll

It's not $2.5 million plus the cost of a new coach. We would pay Tubby ~$2 million next year. That will go to a new coach instead. The '$6 million to fire Tubby' is a grossly exaggerated amount. Plus, some level of buy-out when firing a coach is a fact of life. No college coach is going to willingly coach with only 1-2 years on their contract. It's standard for there to be at least 4 years and some level of buy-out involved anytime a coach is fired.

 

[KyGopherfan]

You guys are living in a fantasy land if you think Tubby will be fired at the end of the season. It ain't happening.

 

[goldengophers]

You guys are living in a fantasy land if you think Tubby will be fired at the end of the season. It ain't happening.

Apparently Kentucky isn't in fantasy land. There is at minimum a 50/50 shot at an end of season separation, whether it be resignation or termination.

 

[sunnyday2]

Tubby and Borton will both be back.

 

[baseball_stud]

Tubby will 100% be back. It don't matter who's coaching next year, it doesn't look to be a promising year unless Austin and Dre get a whole lot better and become more consistent.

 

[bga1]

It's not $2.5 million plus the cost of a new coach. We would pay Tubby ~$2 million next year. That will go to a new coach instead. The '$6 million to fire Tubby' is a grossly exaggerated amount. Plus, some level of buy-out when firing a coach is a fact of life. No college coach is going to willingly coach with only 1-2 years on their contract. It's standard for there to be at least 4 years and some level of buy-out involved anytime a coach is fired.

Not only that- Teague shed light on their internal thinking on buyouts. They view it as an amortization. What looks like 2.5 million to us (and is 2.5 million) they are looking at as perhaps 500K per year for 5 years and assessing whether they can make that up per year with another coach. That starts looking like a pretty low bar to hurdle when fans get disgusted.

 

[gopherinpain]

Tubby will 100% be back. It don't matter who's coaching next year, it doesn't look to be a promising year unless Austin and Dre get a whole lot better and become more consistent.

Only with a new coach and staff, will these guys get better. They both have regressed this season and with the offense(I use that word lightly) Tubby runs, they are not put in a position to be successful. 8-10 and a likely first round loss to Illinois in the BTT is not good enough in year 6 and should result in his firing.

 

[station19]

It's not $2.5 million plus the cost of a new coach. We would pay Tubby ~$2 million next year. That will go to a new coach instead. The '$6 million to fire Tubby' is a grossly exaggerated amount. Plus, some level of buy-out when firing a coach is a fact of life. No college coach is going to willingly coach with only 1-2 years on their contract. It's standard for there to be at least 4 years and some level of buy-out involved anytime a coach is fired.

That's what I was getting at. Why were some people trying to say the salary for the new coach would be part of the buy-out cost? Did they think Tubby was planning to coach for free next year?

 

[From the Barn]

the assistants in that calculation were also making 5x their actual salary.

 

[station19]

It's not $2.5 million plus the cost of a new coach. We would pay Tubby ~$2 million next year. That will go to a new coach instead. The '$6 million to fire Tubby' is a grossly exaggerated amount. Plus, some level of buy-out when firing a coach is a fact of life. No college coach is going to willingly coach with only 1-2 years on their contract. It's standard for there to be at least 4 years and some level of buy-out involved anytime a coach is fired.

One could also make the argument that if the new coach were paid 1 mill per year, it would actually lower the buy-out by approx 1 mill.

 

[BleedGopher]

I really have no idea what Teague is going to do with Tubby, but no doubt Teague is putting a lot of emphasis on this Master Facilities Plan roll-out in mid-April and (I assume) he wants to hit the ground running with a big fundraising campaign and some early wins. Hopefully he has those early wins lined up regardless of the momentum of football and basketball right now, but the fundraising environment can't be explosive right now with the feeling of the hoops program, and to a lesser extent the football program.

The two ways to infuse material excitement into a program and enlist a big bump in fundraising is a deep run in March (S16 or better) or a new coach that has universal (or at least close) appeal.

It will be a challenging fundraising task to ask donors to pony up if we get knocked out in the first round again and bring back the current staff.

A lot of people talk about the costs buying out Tubby/Borton, etc. but there are certainly costs with keeping them as well.

Go Gophers!!

 

[station19]

Let's see; if we had let Maturi retire in the normal fashion we save 450 k? If we don't buy off UNC we save 800 k? Those two combined would cut the Tubby buy-out in half. Oh well, what's money.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I really have no idea what Teague is going to do with Tubby, but no doubt Teague is putting a lot of emphasis on this Master Facilities Plan roll-out in mid-April and (I assume) he wants to hit the ground running with a big fundraising campaign and some early wins. Hopefully he has those early wins lined up regardless of the momentum of football and basketball right now, but the fundraising environment can't be explosive right now with the feeling of the hoops program, and to a lesser extent the football program.

The two ways to infuse material excitement into a program and enlist a big bump in fundraising is a deep run in March (S16 or better) or a new coach that has universal (or at least close) appeal.

It will be a challenging fundraising task to ask donors to pony up if we get knocked out in the first round again and bring back the current staff.

A lot of people talk about the costs buying out Tubby/Borton, etc. but there are certainly costs with keeping them as well.

Go Gophers!!

Excellent analysis. And if anyone understands this larger picture of fundraising, it's Teague.

 

[spermophilus]

Agree hoops is easier than football based on numbers, but TCF bank by most accounts has not helped recruits, so to automatically believe that a practice facility would drastically improve basketball recruiting is a pretty big assumption. Also, the BB team has not won an NCAA game in what, 23 years? They have been to the tournament 7 times in the history of the program (excluding the removed years). There is really nothing to build on, and unless you can convince a couple hometown heroes to stay home, I think this is what you get with MN BB...the same thing you have had for 30 years. Some decent teams and some bad ones, maybe once a decade you advance deep in the tournament. Thats probably the ceiling for the program, IMO...

I don't accept this. It is precsiely that assumption/belief/myth is both too pervasive re: all Gopher Sports, and I believe, intrinsically holds us back. I'm saying change that mythology here. When are folks going to decide that "enough is enough" with mediocrity, and worse, its acceptance.

 

[Hates Monikers]

Agree hoops is easier than football based on numbers, but TCF bank by most accounts has not helped recruits, so to automatically believe that a practice facility would drastically improve basketball recruiting is a pretty big assumption. Also, the BB team has not won an NCAA game in what, 23 years? They have been to the tournament 7 times in the history of the program (excluding the removed years). There is really nothing to build on, and unless you can convince a couple hometown heroes to stay home, I think this is what you get with MN BB...the same thing you have had for 30 years. Some decent teams and some bad ones, maybe once a decade you advance deep in the tournament. Thats probably the ceiling for the program, IMO...

So much I'd like to argue with here, but I'll stick to the facilities, since that's on topic.

"TCF bank by most accounts has not helped recruits." By whose accounts? While our recruiting has been at or near the bottom of the Big Ten, I shudder to think where it would be without a beautiful stadium/locker room to show off as proof of the school's commitment.

As for a practice facility, I used to think it would help marginally. But now that I have a 17-year-old (non-athlete) looking at colleges and immediately ruling out the ones in which the student centers, activity centers, dorms, etc., are dumps (in her opinion), I've changed my tune. Seeing a new practice facility where the players will spend every day for four years can make a big difference, I believe.

I do think it's unfortunate that Tubby came here on the condition that he get a practice facility and will likely leave without every using it.

 

[bga1]

I really have no idea what Teague is going to do with Tubby, but no doubt Teague is putting a lot of emphasis on this Master Facilities Plan roll-out in mid-April and (I assume) he wants to hit the ground running with a big fundraising campaign and some early wins. Hopefully he has those early wins lined up regardless of the momentum of football and basketball right now, but the fundraising environment can't be explosive right now with the feeling of the hoops program, and to a lesser extent the football program.

The two ways to infuse material excitement into a program and enlist a big bump in fundraising is a deep run in March (S16 or better) or a new coach that has universal (or at least close) appeal.

It will be a challenging fundraising task to ask donors to pony up if we get knocked out in the first round again and bring back the current staff.

A lot of people talk about the costs buying out Tubby/Borton, etc. but there are certainly costs with keeping them as well.

Go Gophers!!

Go to the Elite 8 and I think Teague has no choice but to keep Tubby from both a national and local perspective. The Sweet 16 is not going to erase the visual effects of these past several seasons for most donors and ticket buyers. People that have their hearts in this deal and watch the games know that a two game post season run is fool's gold at best. Tubby's teams have been poorly coached and motivated and there is not going to be any changing him. He is what he is, a very good man but a coach whose strategies were set in the 1980's. The game seems ot have -assed him by and his enthusiasm is just not sufficient to get it done here.

Watching Izzo last night- Payne landed hard on the floor- should have been injured, so hard was the fall- but he made the effort to roll toward the ball and grab it and get the time out. Izzo charged him and bear hugged him screaming as he did so. That's a guy you will go to war for. None of that is left in the Tubster.

 

[dpodoll68]

I do think it's unfortunate that Tubby came here on the condition that he get a practice facility and will likely leave without every using it.

I couldn't agree more. It's an unfortunate reality of the situation that it's next to impossible to know just how toxic the athletic environment is here until you're in it and have lived it. If nothing else, I hope Teague can change the culture of underpay and overexpect to one where athletics are valued as the "front door" to the U and are given the appropriate level of commitment, both financially and emotionally.

 

[savagerube]

So much I'd like to argue with here, but I'll stick to the facilities, since that's on topic.

"TCF bank by most accounts has not helped recruits." By whose accounts? While our recruiting has been at or near the bottom of the Big Ten, I shudder to think where it would be without a beautiful stadium/locker room to show off as proof of the school's commitment.

As for a practice facility, I used to think it would help marginally. But now that I have a 17-year-old (non-athlete) looking at colleges and immediately ruling out the ones in which the student centers, activity centers, dorms, etc., are dumps (in her opinion), I've changed my tune. Seeing a new practice facility where the players will spend every day for four years can make a big difference, I believe.

I do think it's unfortunate that Tubby came here on the condition that he get a practice facility and will likely leave without every using it.

I completely agree. This whole situation, besides a glitzy practice facility, is about showing student athletes the commitment to athletics. Building a new, state-of-the-art facility will show recruits that the U is committed to basketball. Also, it's about keeping up with the rest of the B1G. Right now, the only other university in the conference without a practice facility is Northwestern. Does the U want to be thrown in the same category as Northwestern when it comes to basketball commitment?