Taurus Samuels Commits to Gophers!!

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
11,684
Reaction score
6,893
Points
113
Speaking for myself, the issue with some of your posts is certainly not that I think you are any less of a Gopher fan than I am (I'm very sure our sentiments are similar), it's that your writing seems always tinged with the idea that Ben isn't really trying to get the kind of players you think we need. I think that is false.

Everybody here would love to see an all-conference type shooting guard or another great forward. How about an athletic seven footer carrying about 270 pounds? Garcia is the only elite transfer we are likely to see, due to his personal situation which geographically limited his options. Until we take a few more steps upward Minnesota is not an attractive destination for top portal talent to play a year or two. We have a much better chance to attract program changers through high school recruiting.

I don't want to speak for Bob, but I was never expecting Ben to bring in another all-conference type shooting guard. I would be happy with another Willis, Stephens, Loewe type guard, which I think is a reasonable expectation. Unfortunately I think both Cooper and Samuels are a step below those 3.
 

Johnnyboy18

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
3,979
Reaction score
741
Points
113
I don't want to speak for Bob, but I was never expecting Ben to bring in another all-conference type shooting guard. I would be happy with another Willis, Stephens, Loewe type guard, which I think is a reasonable expectation. Unfortunately I think both Cooper and Samuels are a step below those 3.
And pretty much everyone disagrees with you. You're points have been proven wrong over and over again, and when that happens you say some other nonsense. Just be consistent.
 

BarnBurner

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
17,342
Reaction score
3,050
Points
113
No one thinks they are wrong when they are predicting things, it'd be pretty weird to make a prediction.

That said, I hope I'm wrong on a TON of things that I think. I think the housing market might crash a little, I hope i'm wrong. I don't think the Vikings will ever win a Super Bowl, I really hope I'm wrong. Whether you believe it or not, I want the Gophers to win. I want every Gopher player to be WAY better than I thought they were going to be. People can accuse me of a lot of things, but no offense, to accuse me of not wanting the Gophers to win is missing the point. I want Samuels to be fantastic and an absolute perfect fit.

I never questioned anyone's worthiness of being a gopher fan. I'm saying that it's unreasonable to think that someone who has dumped thousands of hours and dollars into the Gophers doesn't want them to excel. It's a completely unreasonable take.

You don't think adding players who are a good fit leads to wins? Are you really pretending that was a bridge too far? I know you're pretending now, but here ya go. The better Samuels is, the better the team will be. I guess that concept is tangential for you, but it seems pretty direct to me.

You are accusing me of wanting to be right about my opinion of what the team needs. For me to be right, the team would have to be worse. It's really not complicated. For me to be wrong, the team would have to better.

I want them to be better. I want to be wrong.
"That said, I hope I'm wrong on a TON of things that I think. I think the housing market might crash a little, I hope i'm wrong. I don't think the Vikings will ever win a Super Bowl, I really hope I'm wrong. Whether you believe it or not, I want the Gophers to win. I want every Gopher player to be WAY better than I thought they were going to be. People can accuse me of a lot of things, but no offense, to accuse me of not wanting the Gophers to win is missing the point. I want Samuels to be fantastic and an absolute perfect fit.

I never questioned anyone's worthiness of being a gopher fan. I'm saying that it's unreasonable to think that someone who has dumped thousands of hours and dollars into the Gophers doesn't want them to excel. It's a completely unreasonable take."

It is, however the CBJ Protection Detail lives large......
 

BarnBurner

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
17,342
Reaction score
3,050
Points
113
Speaking for myself, the issue with some of your posts is certainly not that I think you are any less of a Gopher fan than I am (I'm very sure our sentiments are similar), it's that your writing seems always tinged with the idea that Ben isn't really trying to get the kind of players you think we need. I think that is false.

Everybody here would love to see an all-conference type shooting guard or another great forward. How about an athletic seven footer carrying about 270 pounds? Garcia is the only elite transfer we are likely to see, due to his personal situation which geographically limited his options. Until we take a few more steps upward Minnesota is not an attractive destination for top portal talent to play a year or two. We have a much better chance to attract program changers through high school recruiting.
Whose job is it to make MN attractive enough to land the top portal talent?
 

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
11,684
Reaction score
6,893
Points
113
And pretty much everyone disagrees with you. You're points have been proven wrong over and over again, and when that happens you say some other nonsense. Just be consistent.

How have any of my points been proven wrong when the season hasn't started yet? I could care less if people disagree with me, that's the point of a message board.

Just keep making stuff up though, that's what you do best.
 


Johnnyboy18

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
3,979
Reaction score
741
Points
113
How have any of my points been proven wrong when the season hasn't started yet? I could care less if people disagree with me, that's the point of a message board.

Just keep making stuff up though, that's what you do best.
I mean you called Alex O'Connell a very talented guard even though he's 6'6 and have implied Henley isn't a guard because 6'6 or 6'7.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
11,684
Reaction score
6,893
Points
113
I mean you called Alex O'Connell a very talented guard even though he's 6'6 and have implied Henley isn't a guard because 6'6 or 6'7.

O'Connell was a 4* top 70 recruit who started his career at Duke, and had a nice end to it with Creighton last year. He played guard his entire college career.

Henley is now 6'8", which he said so himself when he signed, and only had 2 offers out of high school. Big difference. Keep making stuff up though....
 

Johnnyboy18

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
3,979
Reaction score
741
Points
113
O'Connell was a 4* top 70 recruit who started his career at Duke, and had a nice end to it with Creighton last year. He played guard his entire college career.

Henley is now 6'8", which he said so himself when he signed, and only had 2 offerers out of high school. Big difference. Keep making stuff up though....
High school rankings from 5 years ago are relevant now but with Kerwin they should have been thrown out the window. That one inch really makes a difference when it comes to calling someone a guard or not. Like I said consistency, you should give it a try.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
11,684
Reaction score
6,893
Points
113
High school rankings from 5 years ago are relevant now but with Kerwin they should have been thrown out the window. That one inch really makes a difference when it comes to calling someone a guard or not. Like I said consistency, you should give it a try.

Height is only one factor, I've been very consistent on that. Same with Walton, I said he wouldn't be a Gopher, nor should we want him to be based on watching him play. I've also been consistent on that. Ben also appears to agree. You're the one consistently making things up.
 



Dakota2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,579
Reaction score
1,145
Points
113
It sure seems like they still need a wing even if one the two freshman step up and take major minutes. To assume both will be game ready seems like a risk to me.
Like many others, you just assume we are intentionally taking that risk. Not the case. Can't imagine the coach doesn't want to continue to improve the team through the portal. Fact remains, Minnesota is not an attractive landing spot for high level transfers. What Ben is not willing to do is take mediocre players for the sake of filling the roster and, in the process, taking playing time from freshman.

Given available talent that is lateral to our freshman, he doesn't want it.
 

Dakota2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,579
Reaction score
1,145
Points
113
Or, to assume that none of the four true guards will be injured or away from the team for substantial period of time is also risky.
And that's a risk Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois and lots of others face as well.
 

Johnnyboy18

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
3,979
Reaction score
741
Points
113
Height is only one factor, I've been very consistent on that. Same with Walton, I said he wouldn't be a Gopher, nor should we want him to be based on watching him play. I've also been consistent on that. Ben also appears to agree. You're the one consistently making things up.
Ah must have been a different guy bringing up height on guards when talking about rosters yesterday.
 

Dakota2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,579
Reaction score
1,145
Points
113
I don't want to speak for Bob, but I was never expecting Ben to bring in another all-conference type shooting guard. I would be happy with another Willis, Stephens, Loewe type guard, which I think is a reasonable expectation. Unfortunately I think both Cooper and Samuels are a step below those 3.
I think you will be surprised by Cooper. He is a better point guard than Willis in terms of running an offense and distributing. He is a better basketball player the Loewe, and is at least equal all around as Stephens.
 




Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
16,275
Reaction score
7,365
Points
113
Speaking for myself, the issue with some of your posts is certainly not that I think you are any less of a Gopher fan than I am (I'm very sure our sentiments are similar), it's that your writing seems always tinged with the idea that Ben isn't really trying to get the kind of players you think we need. I think that is false.

Everybody here would love to see an all-conference type shooting guard or another great forward. How about an athletic seven footer carrying about 270 pounds? Garcia is the only elite transfer we are likely to see, due to his personal situation which geographically limited his options. Until we take a few more steps upward Minnesota is not an attractive destination for top portal talent to play a year or two. We have a much better chance to attract program changers through high school recruiting.
The only complaint I have about Ben's class is not adding another wing or two.

I don't think there could have been a bigger Pharrel Payne fan than me. I love Carrington's game. I was pumped up about Dawson Garcia and said Cooper was my favorite PG we had a realistic chance of getting.

It's literally 1 personnel decision this entire offseason that I'm not 100% on board. This is my point. Even for fans who are 90% in agreement with everything Ben Johnson does it feels to some of you like that is "always tinged with the idea that Ben isn't really trying to get the kind of players you think we need".

I like Ben. I really like our incoming freshman and I'm super pumped up about Garcia and Cooper (I think they are both fantastic). Ben deserves kudos for all of them. The one thing I disagree with him about is adding another wing or two.
 

Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
16,275
Reaction score
7,365
Points
113
I don't think these numbers are accurate.

The only chunk missed off his schedule is from 12/21 until 1/15. That would be 25 calendar days.

His numbers 12/21 and earlier: 9.8 PPG; 38% FG; 33% 3FG; 2.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 1.2 TOs.

So they were slightly better against better competition (Cal, Stanfod, Georgetown, BC).
 

Gopherfan84

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
3,536
Reaction score
2,429
Points
113
I don't think 9 will play more than 10 min per game unless injuries become a factor. It'll likely be a 7-8 man rotation of Fox, Payne, Garcia, Ihnen, Battle, Carrington, Cooper, and Samuel, with Samuel playing the least out of those 8.

The rest may get a few spot minutes but will be mostly on the bench.
Yeah trust 7 and play 8. I agree. I think Samuel gets 10-12 minutes a game. He will spell Cooper for 5-8 minutes, and also play with Cooper for a couple so he can spell the other wing. I think either Payne or Ihnen will be the 8th guy.
 

Gopherfan84

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
3,536
Reaction score
2,429
Points
113
Why would we not pick up the pace? We have 11 good athletes who belong on the floor. The starters will get periodic rest. Last year the slow pace was a strategy to protect the starters who played 35 or more minutes a game. Having a strong bench will lead to more offense and point production.
If you look at Ben's largest basketball influences (Dave Thorsen and Ben Jacobson), they don't play that fast on offense. We ranked just ahead of Colorado St. in possessions per game last year. Having a deeper bench will allow for the team to be held more accountable on the defense and that is where I think you will see added depth be felt more.
We will also have an average or slightly better rebounding team. This will limit opponent second, third, and fourth shots and give us more shots / points.
I agree we will score more points per possessions. I'm not confident we will have more possessions than last year. We still play in the B1G and being better on defense will equate to the other team having longer possessions. We may score a little quicker, but we are hopefully defending a little longer.
Finally we (especially Fox) will score off offensive rebounds. I expect Fox to score an average in double digits.
If this happens, either Garcia and Battle are hurt, or Fox will be overachieving. I love Fox's attributes and what he brings to the game. He is uber athletic and in the NSIC it was a way to score. He will get more junk points here and will not have offenses ran through him. If he scores 12 ppg, with Battle and Garcia scoring their predicted averages, we are a top 4 team in the B1G.
Significant scoring will be spread among everyone else who plays. We will have good balanced scoring off the bench. You will not need to look at one name in the box score -- Sutherlin -- for bench scoring.
We may have more spread out scoring, but it most likely wont be by much. Battle and Garcia are at another level offensively. They should be averaging somewhere from 14-20 ppg each with the current pace. If we amped it up to a crazy level pace then then you could look at 18-24 ppg, but I highly doubt that happens knowing what style Ben has preferred to play in the past. We averaged like 67 ppg last year. Lets say we bump that up to 72-75 with he hope our offense is improved. You're scoring spread out will lower averages still.

Battle- 17-19 ppg
Garcia- 16-18 ppg
Cooper- 7-9 ppg
Fox- 7-9 ppg
Carrington 6-8 ppg
Ihnen- 4-8 ppg
Payne- 4-6 ppg
Samuels 2-4 ppg.

This is probably a pretty reasonable scoring estimate unless Battle and Garcia underachieve offensively which I doubt they do.
 

leib0039

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
938
Reaction score
1,300
Points
93
Like many others, you just assume we are intentionally taking that risk. Not the case. Can't imagine the coach doesn't want to continue to improve the team through the portal. Fact remains, Minnesota is not an attractive landing spot for high level transfers. What Ben is not willing to do is take mediocre players for the sake of filling the roster and, in the process, taking playing time from freshman.

Given available talent that is lateral to our freshman, he doesn't want it.
First off, I think our class this year is better than TT/Thiam obviously BUT that said I don't think this is a statement you can definitively make after last year. We did exactly what you are saying Ben would never willing do. We took below mediocre players in Ogele, Daniels and even Ramburg and gave them more time than TT/Thiam. Again, it certainly appears our freshman are better this year but you are making assumptions about them that the ones who disagree with you seemingly cant make without you throwing a tantrum.
 

Gopherfan84

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
3,536
Reaction score
2,429
Points
113
First off, I think our class this year is better than TT/Thiam obviously BUT that said I don't think this is a statement you can definitively make after last year. We did exactly what you are saying Ben would never willing do. We took below mediocre players in Ogele, Daniels and even Ramburg and gave them more time than TT/Thiam. Again, it certainly appears our freshman are better this year but you are making assumptions about them that the ones who disagree with you seemingly cant make without you throwing a tantrum.
No doubt Ben took some guys to fill it last year, but that was to fill it to 11. This year he didn't have to fill the 12th and 13th spot which is good. Even with filling 8th-10 he certainly did choose character/team fit over talent. We will see if it paid off
 


Costa Rican Gopher

Mind of a Scientist
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
25,622
Reaction score
3,765
Points
113
I don't think these numbers are accurate.

The only chunk missed off his schedule is from 12/21 until 1/15. That would be 25 calendar days.

His numbers 12/21 and earlier: 9.8 PPG; 38% FG; 33% 3FG; 2.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 1.2 TOs.

So they were slightly better against better competition (Cal, Stanfod, Georgetown, BC).

Agreed. I just kind of skimmed it the first time, and noticed GopherCrew who is a class-A d*ouche didn't dispute the statement so I sort of accepted as fact.
 

Dakota2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,579
Reaction score
1,145
Points
113
First off, I think our class this year is better than TT/Thiam obviously BUT that said I don't think this is a statement you can definitively make after last year. We did exactly what you are saying Ben would never willing do. We took below mediocre players in Ogele, Daniels and even Ramburg and gave them more time than TT/Thiam. Again, it certainly appears our freshman are better this year but you are making assumptions about them that the ones who disagree with you seemingly cant make without you throwing a tantrum.
We had no choice last year but to take less than mediocre players just to partially fill out a roster. Getting Willis, Battle, and Fox in the portal was a monumental achievement given the horrible condition of the program. Minnesota was not and still is not a desired destination for top portal players.

We now have one decent recruiting class and it makes no sense to bring in guys to play a year who are not clearly better than the freshmen.
 

Dakota2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,579
Reaction score
1,145
Points
113
No doubt Ben took some guys to fill it last year, but that was to fill it to 11. This year he didn't have to fill the 12th and 13th spot which is good. Even with filling 8th-10 he certainly did choose character/team fit over talent. We will see if it paid off
What better talent could we have had over the three portal players we got?
 



Gopherfan84

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
3,536
Reaction score
2,429
Points
113
What better talent could we have had over the three portal players we got?
He could’ve taken talented guys who were major character flaws. He made the right choice and didn’t take them. Others didn’t either.
 


Gopherfan84

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
3,536
Reaction score
2,429
Points
113
Go search through the portal. There were better players than Ogele. Who was there isn’t the point. The fact Ben was selective and didn’t sacrifice or try for the quick fix as he worked to build a new culture was the point. I think it was the right choice
 

Holy Man

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
4,649
Reaction score
1,454
Points
113
Go search through the portal. There were better players than Ogele. Who was there isn’t the point. The fact Ben was selective and didn’t sacrifice or try for the quick fix as he worked to build a new culture was the point. I think it was the right choice
There was no reason for Ben to take unnecessary risks last season. Season was going to be a disaster on the record books and in the standings no matter what. He had a free pass and used it.

I’m on board with character. But he also has to get enough talented players to win games in a system less and less oriented toward developing freshmen. That’s the part that has me frustrated with what appears from the outside looking in to be one shooter in the portal away from being potentially really good. I would have thought the addition of Garcia might attract a shooter. So far it hasn’t.
 




Top Bottom