Taurus Samuels Commits to Gophers!!

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ecoperson said:
You could add Robbins to the list but have to discount the fact that he came to play for his uncle, Ed Conroy.

Based on the comments on here, most posters would have been over the moon if we could have gotten rid of the rest of the roster and started. Kalscheur was the best of the lot and was getting reamed royally for his shooting woes. The rest were marginal players at best.

The fact of the matter is that Ben, as a first time head coach, either did us a service by not 'recruiting' most of the existing squard or could not convince any of them to stay. Either way, comparisons to Otzelberger are a stretch as TJ had a previous track record as a head coach previously for 5 years. Ben had nothing to show recruits.

The subject of Ben's first year has been hashed and rehashed so many times that it smells like a greasy diner in here. Let's move on and start looking forward.
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I like greasy diners.

That said, the issue (at least for me) really isn't what Ben has done. I think Ben has done as well as one could ever expect considering he is a first time coach coming into a lower division Big Ten team.

You hire an inexperienced guy to that situation and you are going to finish last place and you are going to have trouble getting 4 star guys and big time transfers. As far as coaching, I have seen enough to believe that Ben knows what he is doing and will get the most out of the guys he gets.
Will he ever get enough momentum to get guys that are one notch up? We'll see. He's our coach and I think everyone here is rooting for him and I think it is also very sensible to have concerns. There is just so much unknown.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Didn't say he didn't. The fact that he had the opportunity to do so was huge and if he wasn't able to, their season is very very different. Hunter wanted to stay local/midwest that helped his case. I'm not comparing TJ to Ben on roster management. I'm saying their cupboards were different. The idea that TJ followed a 2 win team with nothing there isn't all fair in context. If you want to do the Ben was "given" the guys who left, then TJ lost a bunch of dudes too.
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Their cupboards weren't different, they were nearly identical. TJ 'inherited' 2.4 ppg of production, BJ 'inherited' 2.8, which didn't end up playing.

TJ recruited his way to a sweet 16 team in the best conference. Ben recruited his way to a last place team in a slightly weaker conference.

For those who want to make excuses about Ben not having a track record, isn't that the problem with hiring him in the first place? Doesn't he have a track record of being an assistant?

What was Micah Shrewsberry's track record as a head coach? How about Mike Woodson's track record in college? What was Tommy Lloyd's track record as a head coach? TJ's teams at UNLV weren't even very good, shouldn't have that hurt his track record?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Their cupboards weren't different, they were nearly identical. TJ 'inherited' 2.4 ppg of production, BJ 'inherited' 2.8, which didn't end up playing.

TJ recruited his way to a sweet 16 team in the best conference. Ben recruited his way to a last place team in a slightly weaker conference.

For those who want to make excuses about Ben not having a track record, isn't that the problem with hiring him in the first place? Doesn't he have a track record of being an assistant?

What was Micah Shrewsberry's track record as a head coach? How about Mike Woodson's track record in college? What was Tommy Lloyd's track record as a head coach? TJ's teams at UNLV weren't even very good, shouldn't have that hurt his track record?
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We get it you don't like Ben as coach. No one cares, you've been bitching and moaning for a year now.

How did a thread on a transfer backup point guard turn into you pissing and moaning about him being hired again?

How did Craig Smith do? How did Earl Grant do? How did Tony Stubblefield do?

Ben didn't do an A+ job his first year, no one is disputing that.
 
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Gopherfan84 said:
Again, TJ turned over the roster, but he was left a top 40 kid who was their best player and their only guy who could consistently score. Their defense was phenomenal, but their offense was awful and they barely made the tournament. Without that top 40 guy who could score, they have the same record as us. Now TJ hired a great staff and brought in some great role guys around Hunter and he deserves his credit, but it's not as cut and dry or far away as some are making it.

My original point about the the "turnaround" was the year before Otz. That group was the one that got hit differently. So many want to just point out that ISU won two games the year before, but that team had a ton of really good players. Cupboard wasn't full, but it wasn't empty either. When 20% of your scoring and your best player was given to you. I'm not going to do the Big 12 vs. the Big Ten argument with you here. Start another thread if you're interested in talking strengths of conferences.
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Can you at least enlighten me as to who you think his top player was?

Their top scorer last year was a transfer from PennState. His top recruit was a 4 star kid named Tyrese Hunter. His 3rd, 4th & 7th top scorers were all transfers. So I guess I'm confused a little bit.

Look I'm good with Ben, he wasn't my top pick but it ended up I liked what I saw last year. My only concern moving forward is he needs to distribute minutes better.

I would prefer not to go back and forth either regarding the conferences. Speaking for me only, I'm a bit more up to speed with the Big 12.

Thanks
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Their cupboards weren't different, they were nearly identical. TJ 'inherited' 2.4 ppg of production, BJ 'inherited' 2.8, which didn't end up playing.

TJ recruited his way to a sweet 16 team in the best conference. Ben recruited his way to a last place team in a slightly weaker conference.

For those who want to make excuses about Ben not having a track record, isn't that the problem with hiring him in the first place? Doesn't he have a track record of being an assistant?

What was Micah Shrewsberry's track record as a head coach? How about Mike Woodson's track record in college? What was Tommy Lloyd's track record as a head coach? TJ's teams at UNLV weren't even very good, shouldn't have that hurt his track record?
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TJ inherited Hunter out of HS... Ben inherited Thompson out of HS. Can you see the difference?

Ben was an extremely risky hire. He is going to be here for a while so you'd better put this behind you. Either get on board with the hire or leave for a few years and come back later when we have a coach of your liking.
 


ecoperson said:
TJ inherited Hunter out of HS... Ben inherited Thompson out of HS. Can you see the difference?

Ben was an extremely risky hire. He is going to be here for a while so you'd better put this behind you. Either get on board with the hire or leave for a few years and come back later when we have a coach of your liking.
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Hunter could have left, Thompson could have too. Neither had to stay, just like anyone else on either roster. It's called recruiting, and the only difference is that TJ is better at it.

Of course Ben will be here for awhile, and I hope he wins here. I'm tired of the losing. But I'm also tired of reading made up narratives that Ben is some unique coach and inherited some unique situation in order to feel better about last year's team. That's factually false. He failed to recruit a competitive team last season, and I feel that he's failing to recruit at the guard position this offseason, which will again limit our team next season.

Message boards are for discussion, especially in the offseason. Not everyone needs to have the same opinion.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Their cupboards weren't different, they were nearly identical. TJ 'inherited' 2.4 ppg of production, BJ 'inherited' 2.8, which didn't end up playing.

TJ recruited his way to a sweet 16 team in the best conference. Ben recruited his way to a last place team in a slightly weaker conference.
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Again, if Ben had an opportunity to keep a top 35 kid that had committed to MN, then it would the same. We had two top 150-175 posts. Not the same
 



leib0039 said:
That is not what you said or what I disagreed with. You made the assertion that Ben would not take mediocre players and play them over freshman. Which is what is exactly what he did last year, so I said you could not be 100% sure of that as last year that was not the case. If you want to say "You dont know Ben so you cant say what he was thinking about not going all in on Strong/Walton/Jones as he likes the freshman more" thats fine, but then you cant contradict yourself and say you then know exactly what he is thinking as you also dont know. I'll stop responding, just love when someone makes an observation/thought and you rip them, but then you make the same observation/thought on the other side and if someone disagrees you tell them nope you are wrong!
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You are blowing smoke for the sake of it. The obvious clear difference that any knowledgeable person can see is that last year we played mediocre transfers over two freshmen who were not ready to play. This year we have freshmen who are ready to play and possibly start.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
TJ still had to convince that top 40 kid to stay. If he was 'given' Hunter, then Ben was given everyone from the previous roster not named Marcus Carr and Jamal Mashburn Jr.
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Or named Robbins. Three of four best players.
 


Holy Man said:
Perhaps true, but it is not obvious to the fan base. If so, it's either because a transfer has under performed previously and he expects to revert to the mean, or he is relying on freshmen, which I am hardwired to avoid. He may be seeing improvement in returning players that we aren't as well.
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But he's just the coach. Does anybody believe he can see all that stuff?
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Hunter could have left, Thompson could have too. Neither had to stay, just like anyone else on either roster. It's called recruiting, and the only difference is that TJ is better at it.

Of course Ben will be here for awhile, and I hope he wins here. I'm tired of the losing. But I'm also tired of reading made up narratives that Ben is some unique coach and inherited some unique situation in order to feel better about last year's team. That's factually false. He failed to recruit a competitive team last season, and I feel that he's failing to recruit at the guard position this offseason, which will again limit our team next season.

Message boards are for discussion, especially in the offseason. Not everyone needs to have the same opinion.
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Hunter could have left and it would have completely changed Iowa State's season. Thompson could have left and it would have made little difference in ours.
 

RockChalk said:
Can you at least enlighten me as to who you think his top player was?

Their top scorer last year was a transfer from PennState. His top recruit was a 4 star kid named Tyrese Hunter. His 3rd, 4th & 7th top scorers were all transfers. So I guess I'm confused a little bit.

Look I'm good with Ben, he wasn't my top pick but it ended up I liked what I saw last year. My only concern moving forward is he needs to distribute minutes better.

I would prefer not to go back and forth either regarding the conferences. Speaking for me only, I'm a bit more up to speed with the Big 12.

Thanks
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Tyrese Hunter was committed/verbabled to Prohm. I know Brockington was their leading scorer, but I felt Hunter made the sauce and created a ton for Brockington. I also felt defenses focused on him more than Brockington too. TJ did a nice job last year, no doubt about it. They were great to watch defensively. Offensively they were really a two man show with Hunter being the main guy imo.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Their cupboards weren't different, they were nearly identical. TJ 'inherited' 2.4 ppg of production, BJ 'inherited' 2.8, which didn't end up playing.

TJ recruited his way to a sweet 16 team in the best conference. Ben recruited his way to a last place team in a slightly weaker conference.

For those who want to make excuses about Ben not having a track record, isn't that the problem with hiring him in the first place? Doesn't he have a track record of being an assistant?

What was Micah Shrewsberry's track record as a head coach? How about Mike Woodson's track record in college? What was Tommy Lloyd's track record as a head coach? TJ's teams at UNLV weren't even very good, shouldn't have that hurt his track record?
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Stop the sophistry. Your point is made and understood. Some agree. Some don’t. It’s getting old and not contributing much to the discussion.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Hunter could have left, Thompson could have too. Neither had to stay, just like anyone else on either roster. It's called recruiting, and the only difference is that TJ is better at it.

Of course Ben will be here for awhile, and I hope he wins here. I'm tired of the losing. But I'm also tired of reading made up narratives that Ben is some unique coach and inherited some unique situation in order to feel better about last year's team. That's factually false. He failed to recruit a competitive team last season, and I feel that he's failing to recruit at the guard position this offseason, which will again limit our team next season.

Message boards are for discussion, especially in the offseason. Not everyone needs to have the same opinion.
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U
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I
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Dakota2 said:
Hunter could have left and it would have completely changed Iowa State's season. Thompson could have left and it would have made little difference in ours.
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Neither left. Reality.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Tyrese Hunter was committed/verbabled to Prohm. I know Brockington was their leading scorer, but I felt Hunter made the sauce and created a ton for Brockington. I also felt defenses focused on him more than Brockington too. TJ did a nice job last year, no doubt about it. They were great to watch defensively. Offensively they were really a two man show with Hunter being the main guy imo.
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Did TJ have to recruit hunter. Yes or no.
 

BarnBurner said:
Did TJ have to recruit hunter. Yes or no.
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Did Ben have to recruit Treyton? Yes or no.

Of course TJ and Ben had to recruit them both, but they had a massive legs up. Here is a quote below for you to read on Hunter. Ben did the same with Treyton and not Kenny Pohto. Do you believe Ben wouldn't have done it with a top 40 commit who "Fell in love with the campus from Day one".



https://247sports.com/Article/Iowa-...ticks-with-Cyclones-TJ-Otzelberger-162974489/

"First off, I would like to thank God, my family, my coaches my teammates and everyone that has helped me get to this point," Hunter wrote on Twitter. "I fell in love with Iowa State from day one and signed to become a Cyclone and to play for Coach Prohm last fall. After the coaching change, my family and I needed to take the time to reevaluate my options and to make sure my decision was the right one for me. Coach TJ and his staff have prioritized me from the start and have spent the last few weeks building a relationship with me and my family. I am very excited to announce that I am standing by my commitment to Iowa State and look forward to arriving on campus this summer and officially joining the Cyclone family."
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Their cupboards weren't different, they were nearly identical. TJ 'inherited' 2.4 ppg of production, BJ 'inherited' 2.8, which didn't end up playing.

TJ recruited his way to a sweet 16 team in the best conference. Ben recruited his way to a last place team in a slightly weaker conference.

For those who want to make excuses about Ben not having a track record, isn't that the problem with hiring him in the first place? Doesn't he have a track record of being an assistant?

What was Micah Shrewsberry's track record as a head coach? How about Mike Woodson's track record in college? What was Tommy Lloyd's track record as a head coach? TJ's teams at UNLV weren't even very good, shouldn't have that hurt his track record?
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BlahBlahBlah
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Hunter could have left, Thompson could have too. Neither had to stay, just like anyone else on either roster. It's called recruiting, and the only difference is that TJ is better at it.

Of course Ben will be here for awhile, and I hope he wins here. I'm tired of the losing. But I'm also tired of reading made up narratives that Ben is some unique coach and inherited some unique situation in order to feel better about last year's team. That's factually false. He failed to recruit a competitive team last season, and I feel that he's failing to recruit at the guard position this offseason, which will again limit our team next season.

Message boards are for discussion, especially in the offseason. Not everyone needs to have the same opinion.
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You're talking apples to oranges unless you are comparing recruitment for the same player head to head. TJ wanted Garcia bad. Ben won the battle. Who is the better recruiter?
 


ecoperson said:
Back to Samuels... I watched some film and he will most certainly get some meaningful minutes. He is not some back of the roster scrub. I am happy to have him on the team.
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He's going to get plenty of time. Cooper needs to sit 7-8 minutes. Then Cooper will need to move to 2 guard a few times a game with Samuels at point. He probably plays at least 15 minutes.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Did Ben have to recruit Treyton? Yes or no.

Of course TJ and Ben had to recruit them both, but they had a massive legs up. Here is a quote below for you to read on Hunter. Ben did the same with Treyton and not Kenny Pohto. Do you believe Ben wouldn't have done it with a top 40 commit who "Fell in love with the campus from Day one".



https://247sports.com/Article/Iowa-...ticks-with-Cyclones-TJ-Otzelberger-162974489/

"First off, I would like to thank God, my family, my coaches my teammates and everyone that has helped me get to this point," Hunter wrote on Twitter. "I fell in love with Iowa State from day one and signed to become a Cyclone and to play for Coach Prohm last fall. After the coaching change, my family and I needed to take the time to reevaluate my options and to make sure my decision was the right one for me. Coach TJ and his staff have prioritized me from the start and have spent the last few weeks building a relationship with me and my family. I am very excited to announce that I am standing by my commitment to Iowa State and look forward to arriving on campus this summer and officially joining the Cyclone family."
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Above you said TJ inherited hunter.
Nope.
Had to recruit him. Just what I said. Recruit.
TJ didn’t inherit hunter.
 

BarnBurner said:
Above you said TJ inherited hunter.
Nope.
Had to recruit him. Just what I said. Recruit.
TJ didn’t inherit hunter.
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He did inherit. Hunter was committed and would've required a release from Iowa State. That power over players makes them talk to the coach. It guaranteed Otz a place in the room. He took full advantage. He also lost him after one year....

Definition of obtuse​


1a: not pointed or acute : BLUNT
b(1)of an angle : exceeding 90 degrees but less than 180 degrees
(2): having an obtuse anglean obtuse triangle— see TRIANGLE ILLUSTRATION
cof a leaf : rounded at the free end
2a: lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : INSENSITIVE, STUPIDHe is too obtuse to take a hint.
b: difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expressionIt is also, unfortunately, ill-written, and at times obtuse and often trivial.— Shirley Hazzard
 


ecoperson said:
Back to Samuels... I watched some film and he will most certainly get some meaningful minutes. He is not some back of the roster scrub. I am happy to have him on the team.
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Yeah I think he's a 10-15 min guy at minimum. Like Dakota laid out, he'll spell Cooper, plus play with him while Carrington gets spelled. He will be a good addition and I don't think we could've gotten a better option to come off the bench or is at least willing to.
 

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