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balds

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I know today was the exception to my theory, but I really don't like our team when these guys are on the bench:

Rodney Williams
Andre Hollins
Austin Hollins

I would like Tubby to rotate these guys out/in 1 at a time. They can all play 30+ minutes.
 

Agreed. The Gophers substitution patterns are beyond weird.
 

I like and support Tubby, but this is by far my biggest pet peeve with him. I Don't want to call anyone out by name, but there are certain players on this team who should not get nearly as much playing time as they do.
 

... and those certain individuals shouldn't be on the court at the same time unless the score differential is 20+
 

Absolutely. Subs were definitely questionable today. Oto and Ingram shouldn't be seeing the floor and Mav shouldn't be logging huge minutes. The bigger issue is when we lack all playmakers on the floor. Scariest is when we have Oto, Ingram, and Mav out there together. Tubby likes to talk up Mo so much and then he hardly sees the floor.

balds said:
I know today was the exception to my theory, but I really don't like our team when these guys are on the bench:

Rodney Williams
Andre Hollins
Austin Hollins

I would like Tubby to rotate these guys out/in 1 at a time. They can all play 30+ minutes.
Click to expand...
 


Put me in the group that doesn't understand how Tubby substitutes. Yesterday was the exception. Dre was in foul trouble. We are playing 3 games in 3 days. Normal sub patterns are not in play here.
 



Yesterday at one point the lineup was Mav, Oto, Ingram, Welch, and Elliot. Who the heck is suppossed to score?

I agree that 3 games three days/foul trouble can make things tough, but shouldn't a 20 year old in peak physical condition be able to play 32-35 minutes a night?
 



I was horrified when I looked up at the screen and saw he had subbed in the second team when we were clinging to a manageable deficit. I can see it against a lesser opponent, but not in a game where you have a chance at a monumental win.

If there's a method to this madness, I haven't heard it explained yet. In contrast, I saw a quote from Shaka Smart in the paper this morning, and it was clear, articulate and informational. It stands to reason that's what our AD is used to with his basketball coach.
 

I don't understand the hockey style substitutions either. I thought we were lead to believe that those would be going away this season. Wasn't there a story on that?

In short, if Tubby wants to play 10 guys. That is perfectly okay with me. It's his team. But those 5 backups should never be on the court together. Either our starting front court should be on the court or our back court. If Andre Ingram is in, make sure that Coleman, Andre, and Austin are in. If Mav or Welch is in. Make sure that EE/Mbakwe and Rodney is in. I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants to pull my hair out when we see Oto, Mav, Welch, Mbakwe, and Ingram on the floor.
 

At least two of the four of Hollins, Coleman, Hollins, and Williams should be on the floor at all times unless in a blowout and/or foul trouble.
 

I think this is the first time I've ever agreed with you. I'm okay with Tubby playing a lot of players--especially with 3 games in 3 days--but spread out our scorers a little. He seems to only play Trevor when Rodney is in. I'm not sure why Trevor can never play with Mo, for example. That lineup you're referring to drove me insane.

gopherbadgerman said:
Yesterday at one point the lineup was Mav, Oto, Ingram, Welch, and Elliot. Who the heck is suppossed to score?

I agree that 3 games three days/foul trouble can make things tough, but shouldn't a 20 year old in peak physical condition be able to play 32-35 minutes a night?
Click to expand...
 





Ingram has played some awesome minutes this year. Definitely doesn't belong in the same sentence as Oto. Those three charges he took were crucial.
 

Today I thought the sub pattern was perfect. Let the ponies ride, foul protection, etc. Our top 7 is pretty damn tough.
 

Gold Vision said:
Ingram has played some awesome minutes this year. Definitely doesn't belong in the same sentence as Oto. Those three charges he took were crucial.
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+1. Ingram may have been our best big man today.
 

Legitimately typed that wrong... it was supposed to say Oto shouldn't be seeing the floor and Ingram and Mav shouldn't be logging huge minutes. I agree--they were both productive today, but they also didn't log huge minutes. I think Ingram was right on the border of logging too many minutes but he did play very well (those charges got pretty close though).

GopherJake said:
Ingram gave us HUGELY productive minutes today. As did Mav.
Click to expand...
 

underground629 said:
Legitimately typed that wrong... it was supposed to say Oto shouldn't be seeing the floor and Ingram and Mav shouldn't be logging huge minutes. I agree--they were both productive today, but they also didn't log huge minutes. I think Ingram was right on the border of logging too many minutes but he did play very well (those charges got pretty close though).
Click to expand...

I believe that. You are correct, Ingram got the benefit of favorable calls. But he didn't *just* take charges. He scored, made free throws, played a little D and occupied minutes productively. He played better than Mo. (I like Mo.)

Mav. He has been the whipping boy of most folks here for going on 3 years. He has looked like a Junior High player for only a few minutes this year and like a legit D1 backup the rest of the time. His free throw shooting and lack of TOs has been very helpful.

Oto has looked horrific.
 

One thing that wasn't mentioned is the possibility that we still haven't played with a full deck.... Tubby may be protecting Mo and Trevor's knees as we do have 4 games in 5 days? Who knows if EE sees significant minutes if Mo Trevor and Andre are all playing well?? Otto s minutes could decrease in favor of a larger lineup for periods where Rodney plays the 3 to spell Coleman. Mav IMO should continue to be the primary backup to Dre.
 

Fair enough. I think we tend to be in agreement in general on this board. Mo is somewhat of a missmatch either way. Against a smaller/mobile guy he's going to get beat on the dribble and probably commit a lot of fouls, but on the flipside, he can also seal his guy and get easy buckets.

I've been very critical of Mav's play in the past but I really haven't had a problem with his play this year. He's a solid shooter and doesn't take too many shots. However, when other teams put a quick guard on him and play him tightly, he's a TO waiting to happen, and he really struggles guarding those same quick pgs.

I'm more critical of Tubby putting those players in tough situations... when you play players like Mav, Welch, Oto, Ingram, and EE/Mo together, you're asking way too much of those players offensively.

GopherJake said:
I believe that. You are correct, Ingram got the benefit of favorable calls. But he didn't *just* take charges. He scored, made free throws, played a little D and occupied minutes productively. He played better than Mo. (I like Mo.)

Mav. He has been the whipping boy of most folks here for going on 3 years. He has looked like a Junior High player for only a few minutes this year and like a legit D1 backup the rest of the time. His free throw shooting and lack of TOs has been very helpful.

Oto has looked horrific.
Click to expand...
 

underground629 said:
I think this is the first time I've ever agreed with you. I'm okay with Tubby playing a lot of players--especially with 3 games in 3 days--but spread out our scorers a little. He seems to only play Trevor when Rodney is in. I'm not sure why Trevor can never play with Mo, for example. That lineup you're referring to drove me insane.
Click to expand...

Your first line made my day! :)
 

I think the PT distribution for thie Stanford game was very good (IMO Rodney would have more minutes but for two fouls in the first half)
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/boxscore?gid=201211240545

A. Hollins 27 2-6 1-4 2-4 1 2 0 2 1 1 3 7
A. Hollins 31 1-8 0-2 6-7 0 3 2 2 0 1 2 8
J. Coleman 33 5-8 1-2 0-0 2 4 0 4 0 0 0 11
E. Eliason 12 0-1 0-0 0-0 1 2 0 1 0 1 2 0
R. Williams Jr.27 3-5 0-0 6-8 1 4 0 2 0 1 3 12
A. Ingram 9 0-2 0-0 0-0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
O. Osenieks 5 0-1 0-1 1-2 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1
M. Ahanmisi 9 0-0 0-0 5-6 1 1 2 3 0 0 2 5
M. Walker 8 0-0 0-0 1-2 1 1 0 2 2 0 1 1
J. Welch 15 1-2 0-0 0-0 0 1 2 0 1 0 0 2
T. Mbakwe 24 7-10 0-0 5-6 4 12 1 1 1 0 3 19
Totals 19-43 2-9 26-35 12 32 7 19 5 5 16 66
Percentages .442 .222 .743 Team Rebounds: 4
 

Gopher in Texas said:
I think the PT distribution for thie Stanford game was very good (IMO Rodney would have more minutes but for two fouls in the first half)
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/boxscore?gid=201211240545

A. Hollins 27 2-6 1-4 2-4 1 2 0 2 1 1 3 7
A. Hollins 31 1-8 0-2 6-7 0 3 2 2 0 1 2 8
J. Coleman 33 5-8 1-2 0-0 2 4 0 4 0 0 0 11
E. Eliason 12 0-1 0-0 0-0 1 2 0 1 0 1 2 0
R. Williams Jr.27 3-5 0-0 6-8 1 4 0 2 0 1 3 12
A. Ingram 9 0-2 0-0 0-0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
O. Osenieks 5 0-1 0-1 1-2 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1
M. Ahanmisi 9 0-0 0-0 5-6 1 1 2 3 0 0 2 5
M. Walker 8 0-0 0-0 1-2 1 1 0 2 2 0 1 1
J. Welch 15 1-2 0-0 0-0 0 1 2 0 1 0 0 2
T. Mbakwe 24 7-10 0-0 5-6 4 12 1 1 1 0 3 19
Totals 19-43 2-9 26-35 12 32 7 19 5 5 16 66
Percentages .442 .222 .743 Team Rebounds: 4
Click to expand...

I might be wrong, but didnt Williams play the entire 2nd half?
 

gall0249 said:
+1. Ingram may have been our best big man today.
Click to expand...

When Powell was gliding past Mo, Tubby brought in Ingram because he was athletic enough to stay with him. Ingram is a nice tool to have in the box & he works well in certain scenarios.
 

who is playing with who?

I agree on the playing time. However, the thread is about who plays with who. Our two slowest guards on Welch and Mav. Playing them together is just asking for dribble penetration by the opposing team. I think if both Welch and Otto were playing as well as they were last year, the subbing wouldn't seem as horrible. Mav has been really solid this year. Ingram has been a good bench player as well.

Gopher in Texas said:
I think the PT distribution for thie Stanford game was very good (IMO Rodney would have more minutes but for two fouls in the first half)
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/boxscore?gid=201211240545

A. Hollins 27 2-6 1-4 2-4 1 2 0 2 1 1 3 7
A. Hollins 31 1-8 0-2 6-7 0 3 2 2 0 1 2 8
J. Coleman 33 5-8 1-2 0-0 2 4 0 4 0 0 0 11
E. Eliason 12 0-1 0-0 0-0 1 2 0 1 0 1 2 0
R. Williams Jr.27 3-5 0-0 6-8 1 4 0 2 0 1 3 12
A. Ingram 9 0-2 0-0 0-0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
O. Osenieks 5 0-1 0-1 1-2 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1
M. Ahanmisi 9 0-0 0-0 5-6 1 1 2 3 0 0 2 5
M. Walker 8 0-0 0-0 1-2 1 1 0 2 2 0 1 1
J. Welch 15 1-2 0-0 0-0 0 1 2 0 1 0 0 2
T. Mbakwe 24 7-10 0-0 5-6 4 12 1 1 1 0 3 19
Totals 19-43 2-9 26-35 12 32 7 19 5 5 16 66
Percentages .442 .222 .743 Team Rebounds: 4
Click to expand...
 

The wholesale line changes needs to stop. Having five backups in at once will hurt us when playing better competition. The one bright spot here is that tubby stresses defense. Mav, Welch, Oto, Ingram, and Mo are all competent defenders, but the offensive game isn't there.

In other lineup issues.......Oto needs to have his time cut. Thought he was supposed to be a good shooter. He's been awful. Trevor needs to start. Elliot isn't ready. He has also been disappointing.
 

stocker08 said:
The wholesale line changes needs to stop. Having five backups in at once will hurt us when playing better competition. The one bright spot here is that tubby stresses defense. Mav, Welch, Oto, Ingram, and Mo are all competent defenders, but the offensive game isn't there.

In other lineup issues.......Oto needs to have his time cut. Thought he was supposed to be a good shooter. He's been awful. Trevor needs to start. Elliot isn't ready. He has also been disappointing.
Click to expand...

It's hard to figure out Oto's and particularly Welch's regression. Oto made some shots last year, and I remember him being decent around the basket and fairly scrappy on defense. And I remember an eye-popping athletic move to the basket sometime during the NIT run. This year he can't do anything. He looks un-athletic and uncoordinated trying to finish around the rim. It's a dang mystery.
 

The guys that are struggling need a cupcake or two. Hopefully they can regain their footing - and confidence - playing against inferior competition. The game is moving a little too fast for those guys right now, especially Oto. A couple good games can snap guys out of that "I can't keep up" feeling.
 

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