Strip sack was NOT Schlueter's fault, it was a bad play

[MplsGopher]

The DE did not play the run. He shot upfield. That’s what screwed it up.

No idea if he just did that on his own or if the coach saw something and they schemed that look in practice. Guessing the former but don’t know.

 

[GFBfan]

I mean, the OL coach would disagree with you.

They are absolutely the footwork for a reach block on an outside zone play.

I'll respectfully disagree on his footwork.
Either way he missed the block on the strip and the play call wasn't the reason for it.

 

[MplsGopher]

I'll respectfully disagree on his footwork.

That’s fine. If you can get Callahan on record saying they are not run steps, I’ll concede.

Either way he missed the block

Wasn’t put in a position where making the block was reasonable.

I’m fine saying he is more than zero at fault.

 

[GFBfan]

I mean, the OL coach would disagree with you.

They are absolutely the footwork for a reach block on an outside zone play.

Only thing is, neither of those plays are an outside zone. They are inside zone to the opposite side.
He wasn't trying to reach him for an outside zone run, he was pass setting him for an inside zone run to invite the guy to read pass and get up the field. Which is exactly what the DE did and beat Sam.

 

[MplsGopher]

Only thing is, neither of those plays are an outside zone. They are inside zone to the opposite side.
He wasn't trying to reach him for an outside zone run, he was pass setting him for an inside zone run to invite the guy to read pass and get up the field. Which is exactly what the DE did and beat Sam.

You could be right about it being inside zone and his block being more of a seal off. I can give that.

Either way, my actual point stands exactly as I’ve always said it: he could’ve blocked the guy if he was doing actual pass-pro technique (despite what you claim here, these are nothing like pass-pro footwork), but that’s not what the play was.

It wasn’t a regular pass play where he just got beat by a superior pass rush.

 

[GFBfan]

You could be right about it being inside zone and his block being more of a seal off. I can give that.

Either way, my actual point stands exactly as I’ve always said it: he could’ve blocked the guy if he was doing actual pass-pro technique (despite what you claim here, these are nothing like pass-pro footwork), but that’s not what the play was.

It wasn’t a regular pass play where he just got beat by a superior pass rush.

Look at the OL grading. Sam struggles with pass protection on a consistent basis.

 

[MplsGopher]

Look at the OL grading. Sam struggles with pass protection on a consistent basis.

That’s why this guy had 5 sacks and 10 pressures on our dropbacks, right?

Bet you $100 Callahan would say I’m more correct than you.

 

[noamfromm]

The main message I wanted to convey was that it wasn’t like it was a simple dropback pass where Schlueter just plain got beat by a pass rush move. That absolutely did not happen, and the play call contributed significantly to the failure of the play.

If you don’t understand why it’s significantly more difficult to block that DE with a fake run footwork/technique and with a normal pass-pro technique - then you don’t have a clue what you’re taking about and need to stop posting.

MPLS you've warmed on me over the years -- but you've come with some "don't have a clue takes" and it hasn't stopped your prodigious posting clip

 

[MplsGopher]

I’ve ragged on Schlueter before about just plain getting beaten in pass-pro.

This was not one of those cases.

Ask Callahan. He’ll confirm I’m correct. Believe whatever you want.

 

[GFBfan]

That’s why this guy had 5 sacks and 10 pressures on our dropbacks, right?

Bet you $100 Callahan would say I’m more correct than you.

since the single game sack record in all of D1 football is 6, getting 5 in one game would be quite extraordinary. That DE got pressure on other plays as well.
There was nothing wrong with the play call. Unfortunately for Sam he didn't get to his landmark to stop the DE from turning the corner, which is going to happen once in awhile, except for the truly great ones. The sack was compounded by the strip, scoop and score.
As far as a bet, I'd take you up on it but neither you nor I have direct contact with the gopher coaches, which is a good thing, so there isn't a way to find out. You're wrong, just admit it!

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

100% in Schlueter. Granted he was going against a top-50 NFL draft pick, and he managed to hold him in check most of the game, but this was 100% on Schlueter. Nothing's going change that.

 

[MplsGopher]

Unfortunately for Sam he didn't get to his landmark to stop the DE from turning the corner

Wouldn't have been a problem if it was a regular dropback, and he could use regular kick-slide pass-pro footwork.

Just like it wasn't a problem most of the night against this DE during dropbacks.


I've made my point, correctly, ad nauseam.

 

[MplsGopher]

As far as a bet, I'd take you up on it but neither you nor I have direct contact with the gopher coaches, which is a good thing, so there isn't a way to find out.

Bolded: this is true!

You'd lose the bet.

 

[GFBfan]

Wouldn't have been a problem if it was a regular dropback, and he could use regular kick-slide pass-pro footwork.

Just like it wasn't a problem most of the night against this DE during dropbacks.


I've made my point, correctly, ad nauseam.

If all the Gophers ever did was drop back pass or run, there is no way in hell they put up that many points against OSU and would struggle all year to move the ball with consistency.
RPO/play-action are designed to get the D to think for a split second on run or pass rather than just react to what they see as a run or pass.

Your original post:
It was a run fake ... so they're asking Schlueter to do a (fake) run-blocking technique, which already puts him behind the 8-ball against a guy firing out of his stance and racing up field. Was by him instantly, had no chance to recover.

The biggest problem: Mo was lined up on the right side of Tanner for the fake hand-off, and was slow to get over to the left side to help. You can see him initially stop behind the LG ... and by the time he realizes the End raced past Schlueter it's too late to help.

I put the blame for this on Sanford.

Blame is not on Sanford/play call or design. It was 2nd and 7 a play in which it is realistic to run or pass. Sam got beat by a talented DE because he didn't move quickly enough to engage him. His technique was poor, it wasn't because he had to fake fun block then try to pass set. He just didn't get to the spot he needed to. The DE would have beaten him regardless of the play call because he got up the field untouched, which didn't happen often on Thursday night.

As I said in the OL Grade thread JMS got beat also and the ball bounced right to his guy. Had JMS been successful, maybe we recover the fumble to live for another play.

 

[MplsGopher]

If all the Gophers ever did was drop back pass or run, there is no way in hell they put up that many points against OSU and would struggle all year to move the ball with consistency.
RPO/play-action are designed to get the D to think for a split second on run or pass rather than just react to what they see as a run or pass.

No one said they should only ever dropback, nor did anyone say they should never run RPO or play-action.

So this is a strawman.

It was 2nd and 7 a play in which it is realistic to run or pass.

True. They showed a run look after the snap, but the DE ignored it/did not react to it as he should have. Therefore, it looked like he was on a pre-called move/decision, but we can't know that for sure. He could've just guessed right, or even misplayed it.

Sam got beat by a talented DE because he didn't move quickly enough to engage him. His technique was poor

Nothing I say will change this incorrect opinion, so I won't waste my time further.

I just hope you're not so pompous as to refuse to admit you're wrong if Callahan himself said that you are wrong here. I hope not

The DE would have beaten him regardless of the play call because he got up the field untouched

Which would not have happened if it was a dropback, as proper footwork, that would've been able to handle this - as it did all night, had been able to be used.

JMS got beat also and the ball bounced right to his guy. Had JMS been successful, maybe we recover the fumble to live for another play.

Not sure I agree with you here about JMS getting beat, but it's a fair point to discuss in another thread.

 

[GFBfan]

Your contention to begin with was the play call was bad. It was not.

Answer these questions then.
Is 2nd and 7 a good time to run RPO/play action? yes or no. If you answer no then please enlighten us on when you can run that type of play and when you can't.
The DE got by Sam? Yes or no
The sack also forced the ball out and it bounced right to another OSU guy? Yes or no

I'm not questioning the play call nor am I saying Sam is a poor OL. On that particular play the DE beat him. It happens. The tackles job is to block the DE on that play and our tackle didn't do his job on that play. Sam also did his job on a whole bunch of plays, this the DE didn't get to Tanner very much all game.

 

[MplsGopher]

Is 2nd and 7 a good time to run RPO/play action? yes or no.

Any time is a great time to run play action, with a run heavy offense like ours.

The DE got by Sam? Yes or no

Yes

The sack also forced the ball out and it bounced right to another OSU guy? Yes or no

Yes

The tackles job is to block the DE on that play and our tackle didn't do his job on that play. Sam also did his job on a whole bunch of plays, this the DE didn't get to Tanner very much all game.

Hence why I have been correct -- the entire time -- to point out that this play call put Schlueter in a much more difficult position to make that block, than if for example it had been a drop back.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

The main message I wanted to convey was that it wasn’t like it was a simple dropback pass where Schlueter just plain got beat by a pass rush move. That absolutely did not happen, and the play call contributed significantly to the failure of the play.

If you don’t understand why it’s significantly more difficult to block that DE with a fake run footwork/technique and with a normal pass-pro technique - then you don’t have a clue what you’re taking about and need to stop posting.

Schlueter got beat. Plain & simple. Doesn't make him a bad player, or bad person, he just got beat. It happens.

 

[GFBfan]

Any time is a great time to run play action, with a run heavy offense like ours.


Yes


Yes


Hence why I have been correct -- the entire time -- to point out that this play call put Schlueter in a much more difficult position to make that block, than if for example it had been a drop back.

Wrong again. The play call had nothing to do with him not making the block. We ran that type of play multiple times and that one time is when he got all the way home for the sack. On that particular play Sam got beat. It's ok that you're wrong on the play call being not good.

 

[MplsGopher]

The play call had nothing to do with him not making the block.

It put him in a much more difficult to make the block.

Callahan agrees with me. You are wrong.

We ran that type of play multiple times and that one time is when he got all the way home for the sack.

So?

On that particular instance, it put Sam at a disadvantage in making the block.

 

[GFBfan]

It put him in a much more difficult to make the block.

Callahan agrees with me. You are wrong.


So?

On that particular instance, it put Sam at a disadvantage in making the block.

Talk about a strawman.
Of course every play that goes bad you could say that. Fact of the matter is the play was called which there was nothing wrong with it. OSU (the DE vs our OT in particular) was better on that play.

 

[Clark W. Griswold]

Asking a senior to make a difficult block is not bad coaching. Bad coaching, is not teaching the player the proper technique to make the difficult block.

A good coach will not ask a player to do something that they cannot do. They expected Sam to make the block. He got beat, it happens.

 

[SonjayLarrick]

Wright was wide open for a big gain too. Tanner just needed another 1/4 second.

 

[MplsGopher]

Of course every play that goes bad you could say that.

Indeed - every play someone has a shit block. If you actually know anything about high-level football, you know that's true.

All I did was point out the fact that Schlueter was given a shit block assignment, on this particular play, and that that wasn't his fault. He didn't get a simple assignment and just blow it.

That's all I've ever said. You're the one who can't comprehend that and have tried 20 times now to misframe what I've said.

 

[MplsGopher]

A good coach will not ask a player to do something that they cannot do.

Sanford didn't know the DE was going to fly up the field like that on a run-look, or he wouldn't have called that play.

This is chess, not checkers.

 

[Clark W. Griswold]

Sanford didn't know the DE was going to fly up the field like that on a run-look, or he wouldn't have called that play.

This is chess, not checkers.

You're over-thinking this. It was a one-on-one block, the defender got to the qb.

The play call could have given sam some help, but sometimes you have to rely on a player making a play.

 

[GFBfan]

Indeed - every play someone has a shit block. If you actually know anything about high-level football, you know that's true.

All I did was point out the fact that Schlueter was given a shit block assignment, on this particular play, and that that wasn't his fault. He didn't get a simple assignment and just blow it.

That's all I've ever said. You're the one who can't comprehend that and have tried 20 times now to misframe what I've said.

You have a tough time admitting you’re wrong on this site on any thread. You are wrong here and can’t grasp why.
He had the same blocking assignment multiple other times in the game and performed that exact type of block adequately. This one play he did not and it cost us 6 points. The play call wasn’t bad, the play design wasn’t bad. Your original point is not correct and never will be.

 

[MplsGopher]

He had the same blocking assignment multiple other times in the game and performed that exact type of block adequately.

Wasn't at all the same, because the DE wasn't racing up the field.

You have a very simple understanding of football.

 

[MplsGopher]

The play call could have given sam some help

If Sanford knew the DE was going to race up the field like that, he wouldn't have made that playcall. Simple and true

 

[GFBfan]

Wasn't at all the same, because the DE wasn't racing up the field.

You have a very simple understanding of football.

Have you ever played and or coached?