I actually really like this(playing UL first) for the freshmen. It is unlikely that they play much during this game but they get to see the intensity that the need to bring from Game 1 of their college careers. It's a great way to play this season with a lot of returning starters and young bench players. After that game, give them a couple of cupcakes to get the freshmen in the game.
STrib Pitino building balanced schedule; non-conf schedule likely softer than last yr
- Thread starter BleedGopher
- Start date
I actually really like this(playing UL first) for the freshmen. It is unlikely that they play much during this game but they get to see the intensity that the need to bring from Game 1 of their college careers. It's a great way to play this season with a lot of returning starters and young bench players. After that game, give them a couple of cupcakes to get the freshmen in the game.
I'm fine with this schedule approach for next season. I think GopherHole experts are doing the over thinking.
MadtownGopher
Active member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 9,738
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 36
If we miss the tournament next year, it will not be be because of SOS. It will be because we lost to B1G bottom feeders and finished in the bottom portion of the conference.
SelectionSunday
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 24,719
- Reaction score
- 4,877
- Points
- 113
Fair point about DePaul/Va Tech/Seton Hall, as well as the Gophers scheduling Richmond. No problem there. But your argument loses some steam when we consider in the same time frame Northwestern was playing home and homes vs. Butler while the Bulldogs were qualifying for NCAA tournaments in 2008-09 and 2009-10.
Penn State also played what proved to be quality home and homes, even more so than NU. The Nittany Lions were playing home and homes vs. NCAA qualifiers Saint Joseph's (2007-08), Temple (2008-09, 2009-10), and La Salle (2012-13).
Contrast that to Minnesota, which has not shown a knack for scheduling home and homes vs. NCAA-quality opponents.
Little known fact: The last time the Gophers played a nonconference home game vs. a team that ended up with an at-large bid was UAB in 2005-06. That includes the Gophers' mandated ACC Challenge games (no fault of their own).
Think of that. Eight seasons have passed since the Gophers in the nonconference played an eventual NCAA at-large qualifier in Williams Arena. Can't say it with 100% certainty, but I'd guess the Gophers are the only Big Ten team with that claim to fame. Some of that is circumstance and bad luck, absolutely, but I have to believe a lot of it is a simple case of the administration/coaches truly not having the "want to".
It seems the only way to get any quality home non=conference games is in ACC challenge or the Big East deal. Otherwise its time for the NCAA to mandate that major conferences schedule at least two games home and away, every year against other major conference teams.
SelectionSunday
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 24,719
- Reaction score
- 4,877
- Points
- 113
As long as one of those 12 nonconference wins is Louisville or Gonzaga, we should be good to go! But with the Gophers' (on paper) friendly Big Ten schedule (OSU, Sparty, Michigan, Illinois, Maryland only once), we might want to bump that B1G regular-season mark up to 10-8.
Well put! Since we'll likely play at least three high major teams anyway (Louisville, Wake Forest, and someone in the preseason NIT), I don't think it is imperative to schedule another but a couple of pretty good mid-major teams would be nice. Minnesota didn't really have a particularly tough non-conference schedule last year (They played only three major conference teams), but they played a group of mid-major teams of decent quality. They played Richmond away and the Spiders might have made the NIT or even NCAA is not for some critical injuries. Coastal Carolina and Wofford made the NCAA tournament and South Dakota State was one of the better teams in their conference.
I'll be irritated if there are four or five absolute garbage teams (like those ranked 300 or lower this year) on the roster. Furthermore, a similar strategy backfired on Fran McCaffery two years ago as the lousy non-conference schedule contributed to keeping Iowa out of the tournament despite 20 wins and a 9-9 conference schedule.
SelectionSunday
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 24,719
- Reaction score
- 4,877
- Points
- 113
Yep, one game. One. And nobody (at least that I know of) is asking for Duke, North Carolina, UConn, Syracuse, Kansas, Arizona, Kentucky, etc.
OK, I've said my piece about the need for another decent game on the schedule. Time to keep the yap shut until I see the finished product in August. Am most interested in seeing who the three other teams will be that come to Williams Arena for the NIT Season Tip-Off North Regional. Crossing my fingers that the 2nd-round/quarterfinal opponent could be someone decent. Last season the losing teams in the quarterfinals were East Carolina (Conference USA), Georgia State (Sun Belt), Rhode Island (A-10), and Rutgers (American). Only Georgia State (regular-season champion) ended up having a good (in RPI top 100) season.
Gopherguy0723
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2013
- Messages
- 4,477
- Reaction score
- 542
- Points
- 113
I'd prefer two in all honesty. The non-conference home schedule is pathetic. It should be a crime to charge Big Ten rates for tickets to those games. The games are lousy, half the arena is empty, and no one gets into the game. Play better teams at home, fill up the arena, make more money, reinvest the money into the program, maybe beat decent-good teams to drive up some buzz, etc.
I'd love to see one top 4 BCS conference finisher or equivalent and one middling-bottom feeder every year. If we lose, it won't hurt us. If we win, it will help us. Beating Arkansas Little Rock and Coastal Carolina does nothing for fans, revenue, or the NCAA resume.
Ogee Ogilthorpe
Tattooed Millionaire
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 21,212
- Reaction score
- 14,155
- Points
- 113
I get the scheduling argument for Strength of Schedule purposes as it relates to beefing up the NCAA Tournament resume.
But for someone who maybe gets the chance to see a game at Williams Arena once every 2-3 years, I get really sick of hearing about Gopher fans whining about not seeing good enough competition. Seriously? Every year, EVERY year you know you're going to see the likes of Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, et al. The best basketball in the country. And you're whining about a few games against Tennessee State or American?
My last game was two years ago against North Florida (yes, the Ospreys!!) and I was absolutely ecstatic about being in the building and taking my wife on her first trip into the Barn (after having a few cocktails with Nadine and Nokomis).
Conversely, for a few years in a row, I have been on the brink of picking up UNLV season tickets; team was solid, good arena with a good atmosphere, etc. But each time I looked at the schedule and saw 2.5 months of conference games against Wyoming, TCU, Boise State, et al. I just couldn't pull the trigger on that, not when the best games on the schedule are NON-conference games in November.
Yes, picking up one or two stronger teams on the schedule will beef up the Tourney resume, no doubt about it. But I have no sympathy for the season tix holders who are pissed about a few games against Fairfield or Indiana State before kicking into the Big Ten schedule. Please...
SelectionSunday
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 24,719
- Reaction score
- 4,877
- Points
- 113
Not looking to argue this one any longer Ogee, but I must point out the Gophers don't play Indiana, Michigan, or Michigan State at Williams Arena this coming season. That's two consecutive seasons of no Sparty on the home schedule, one of the many downfalls of conference expansion.
If you recall, the Coastal Carolina game was pretty close for most of the game last year and Coastal Carolina wasn't too bad (made the NCAA tournament). Nebraska-Omaha and SD State were pretty competitive games too. The High Point NIT game was competitive. I think playing those types of teams at home is fine. It's when Big Ten teams schedule really rotgut teams like Maryland-Eastern Shore, Texas-Pan American, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, and Prairie View A&M that I have a problem. Scheduling a team you can beat by 30 even when playing 11 players for significant minutes isn't good for fan interest, player development, or RPI.
bleedsmaroonandgold
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2011
- Messages
- 7,069
- Reaction score
- 2,334
- Points
- 113
I don't understand this comment. There are teams out there playing quality non-conference home games. We don't need an NCAA mandate to do it too. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the absence of such games, Richard Pitino is the only reason for it.
Sports_Realist
Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
- Messages
- 665
- Reaction score
- 21
- Points
- 18
I am definitely not of the opinion that every home schedule needs to have 50% of the games against major conference foes with a Duke or Kansas type coming in every year. I also recognize that getting any major conference team to play you on campus is a difficult and expensive endeavor. However, when we don't get a Big Ten/ACC Challenge home game, and in the future a Gavitt Cup home game with a Big East team, it would be nice to see at least one major conference school on our home floor prior to the conference season starting. As someone noted several posts back, the prices for these non conference games with the place only three quarters full and no atmosphere don't bring much value for money.
As an aside, Georgia made the 2001 NCAA tourney with a 16-14 record, and as a #8 seed, which meant they weren't even a bubble team, due to its incredibly tough non conference schedule. Out of the SEC, which put six teams in the big dance, the Bulldogs played Stanford, Wake Forest, California, Fresno State, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, and Indiana State, all of which made the NCAA Tourney. They also played the U of M, Villanova, Utah, and Pepperdine, all of which made the NIT. The only non conference team Georgia played that didn't make post season play was North Carolina State. The message at the time from the NCAA was "play tough teams and get rewarded". More than one 20 plus win team that fattened up on Southland, Big West, and America East schools that season was left complaining while taking an NIT bid. These days, to play a schedule like that, Georgia would have to play an exempt tourney and find a neutral floor for other games. You just can't get big school teams to travel enough.
As an aside, Georgia made the 2001 NCAA tourney with a 16-14 record, and as a #8 seed, which meant they weren't even a bubble team, due to its incredibly tough non conference schedule. Out of the SEC, which put six teams in the big dance, the Bulldogs played Stanford, Wake Forest, California, Fresno State, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, and Indiana State, all of which made the NCAA Tourney. They also played the U of M, Villanova, Utah, and Pepperdine, all of which made the NIT. The only non conference team Georgia played that didn't make post season play was North Carolina State. The message at the time from the NCAA was "play tough teams and get rewarded". More than one 20 plus win team that fattened up on Southland, Big West, and America East schools that season was left complaining while taking an NIT bid. These days, to play a schedule like that, Georgia would have to play an exempt tourney and find a neutral floor for other games. You just can't get big school teams to travel enough.
SelectionSunday
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 24,719
- Reaction score
- 4,877
- Points
- 113
Remember that Georgia team well. In terms of strength of schedule, that had to be the strongest non-conference resume I've ever seen. Played a whopping 17 games vs. the RPI top 50 and another 7 vs. teams with RPIs between 51-100. And it's not like Georgia didn't beat anyone. They were 8-9 vs. the top 50 and 11-13 vs. the top 100. There was no doubt Georgia was NCAA worthy even with the 16-14 record. I think it's safe to say we'll never see another nonconference schedule/resume like that one.
Did you apply for the job when Joe Esposito and company got ran out of town?
Philosophy
Pitino, rightfully says there are lots of considerations, but isn't the most important part making your team better? You cannot improve playing a diet of cupcakes. You need some "tests" sprinkled in with the guaranteed wins. AND, When you play teams in the non-conference is a huge part of it as well. Who has the advantage playing Louisville in game one? To be a more true test it would be nice if each team had a chance to get the jitters out and learn about themselves before playing each other. Yes, there is the same for both teams argument but for sure does that make it a smart decision timing wise? Happy we are playing the game, but it's just nice to always start the season one and 0.
If we are not playing a tough non-conference schedule this year...when? Certainly not the next season? Right?
It was a different time, but when Marquette was a power we used to play them, same for Cincinnati. We used to play Iowa St, Drake, Bradley, Butler, Evansville when they were good....these teams, like each season. It just doesn't help your team develop to play all bad teams. You have to challenge your guys. If the first adversity for a month is the Big Ten opener, doesn't seem helpful. Totally agree with Selection Sunday. Sprinkle in one or two decent opponents with the guaranteed wins. Three bad teams, one decent team, three bad teams, one good team team etc 6 bad teams in a row is completely counter productive...you can win developing bad habits and playing less than all out. Pointing to the conference opener in a month is too far away.
Success leaves foot prints: Kentucky pre-season... 4 bad teams to start-then Mich State-then 4 bad teams- then Providence and Baylor-then a bad team to recover if need be-then North carolina- then a bad team- then Louisville-then 10 days to correct your weaknesses and start the conference. They did not start the season an experienced team.
UConn: Starts with two bad teams and plays Maryland-- then 3 bad teams-then Boston College and Indiana-then a bad team-
then Florida-then a bad team-then Stanford and Washington and then a bad team to prepare for conference play.
Which comes first? Laying the foundation to become a good team or hoping you become one accomplishing wins over predominantly inferior opponents? Kentucky and UConn challenged their players in the non-conference. They believed they would figure it out by learning through adversity. We only want sea shells and balloons. Doesn't work like that. Believe in your players, challenge them. They will respond....especially if you are telling people winning the NIT is meaningful. Words are powerful. Back the talk up. You effectively lost one player and you have six new guys to find a replacement. Trust your kids.
Pitino, rightfully says there are lots of considerations, but isn't the most important part making your team better? You cannot improve playing a diet of cupcakes. You need some "tests" sprinkled in with the guaranteed wins. AND, When you play teams in the non-conference is a huge part of it as well. Who has the advantage playing Louisville in game one? To be a more true test it would be nice if each team had a chance to get the jitters out and learn about themselves before playing each other. Yes, there is the same for both teams argument but for sure does that make it a smart decision timing wise? Happy we are playing the game, but it's just nice to always start the season one and 0.
If we are not playing a tough non-conference schedule this year...when? Certainly not the next season? Right?
It was a different time, but when Marquette was a power we used to play them, same for Cincinnati. We used to play Iowa St, Drake, Bradley, Butler, Evansville when they were good....these teams, like each season. It just doesn't help your team develop to play all bad teams. You have to challenge your guys. If the first adversity for a month is the Big Ten opener, doesn't seem helpful. Totally agree with Selection Sunday. Sprinkle in one or two decent opponents with the guaranteed wins. Three bad teams, one decent team, three bad teams, one good team team etc 6 bad teams in a row is completely counter productive...you can win developing bad habits and playing less than all out. Pointing to the conference opener in a month is too far away.
Success leaves foot prints: Kentucky pre-season... 4 bad teams to start-then Mich State-then 4 bad teams- then Providence and Baylor-then a bad team to recover if need be-then North carolina- then a bad team- then Louisville-then 10 days to correct your weaknesses and start the conference. They did not start the season an experienced team.
UConn: Starts with two bad teams and plays Maryland-- then 3 bad teams-then Boston College and Indiana-then a bad team-
then Florida-then a bad team-then Stanford and Washington and then a bad team to prepare for conference play.
Which comes first? Laying the foundation to become a good team or hoping you become one accomplishing wins over predominantly inferior opponents? Kentucky and UConn challenged their players in the non-conference. They believed they would figure it out by learning through adversity. We only want sea shells and balloons. Doesn't work like that. Believe in your players, challenge them. They will respond....especially if you are telling people winning the NIT is meaningful. Words are powerful. Back the talk up. You effectively lost one player and you have six new guys to find a replacement. Trust your kids.
SelectionSunday
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 24,719
- Reaction score
- 4,877
- Points
- 113
I did not, but it (scheduling) is something I would enjoy giving a shot. Confident I'd at least have a good inkling of what goes into making a schedule that would be fair to all parties involved (head coach, players, season-ticket holders). I would go into it assuming 3 things:
1. The head coach wants to get to 20 wins, even though that's not the "magic number" (for the NCAA) it's made out to be.
2. I would assume players attending Big Ten institutions would relish playing more competitive opponents, not less. Ask 'Dre Hollins, DeAndre Mathieu, or Mo Walker if they'd rather play a Providence, Iowa State, Colorado, or Vanderbilt, in place of a SDSU, NDSU, Wofford, or Bucknell (all solid small-mid-majors in recent years) and I'm guessing every single time they'd choose the former. On the football side, ask a Mitch Leidner, David Cobb, or Josh Campion if they'd rather play a TCU or a Eastern/Western Illinois. Same thing.
3. I would assume that a good share of season ticket-holders (but certainly not all) would appreciate a little more bang for their buck prior to the start of the Big Ten season in terms of the games they see at Williams Arena.
Looking forward to seeing how Pitino goes about crafting a nonconference schedule now that he's been here for a season. It's possible he could be sand-bagging Amelia & the rest of us, too. ... he still might have something up his sleeve and surprise us this season.
alchemy2u
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 5,621
- Reaction score
- 2,173
- Points
- 113
This constant gripping about the non-conference schedule is ridiculous!!!! Get real, we played the 9th toughest Strength of Schedule in the whole country last year. Just because we didn't play some doormat from the SEC, or some other school that your brother-in-law might of heard of, doesn't make it any more of a cupcake schedule than the 340 NCAA teams that had a weaker SOS.
MadtownGopher
Active member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 9,738
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 36
QFT
BarnBoy
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2009
- Messages
- 4,218
- Reaction score
- 21
- Points
- 38
Honest question for the schedule critics:
If we experienced a handful of consecutive years where we had really tough non-conference schedules but failed to make the tourney, would you still support the tougher schedules?
It just seems like a lot of fans put 100% of their fandom into "making the tourney". "That's the only thing that matters". Well, that and our non-conference schedule... Which is it?
If we experienced a handful of consecutive years where we had really tough non-conference schedules but failed to make the tourney, would you still support the tougher schedules?
It just seems like a lot of fans put 100% of their fandom into "making the tourney". "That's the only thing that matters". Well, that and our non-conference schedule... Which is it?
Winasota Gopher
Deep Insider
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2012
- Messages
- 6,668
- Reaction score
- 77
- Points
- 48
I don't think anyone is complaining because they think our schedule needs to be harder. It's just the fact that there is no draw for non conference opponents. It would be nice to have an opponent that we can recognize once a year. Maybe I'm wrong, but thats what I got from SS's original post. The only reason I hate our cupcake schedule, is I believe if we were playing more relevant teams, I could watch more of the games on normal BTN.
gopherhoopsguy
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2009
- Messages
- 1,177
- Reaction score
- 22
- Points
- 38
Well we had a top 10 SOS last year so its pretty damn tough to have a better schedule than last year. I hope its alittle softer if we put 2 more wins on our record we are dancing last year that's a fact. I guess I would rather be dancing every year than seeing a good team in early at home. We have Louisville, wake, maybe Gonzaga just to name a few next year.
gopherhoopsguy
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2009
- Messages
- 1,177
- Reaction score
- 22
- Points
- 38
I love most of your takes selection but since u are such college basketball junkie...
How many NCAA tournament apperances did penn st and northwestern make during those years??
Winasota Gopher
Deep Insider
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2012
- Messages
- 6,668
- Reaction score
- 77
- Points
- 48
i don't think SS is lobbying for a better resume. He wants entertainment factor.
Correct me if I'm wrong SS.
MadtownGopher
Active member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 9,738
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 36
How excited would you guys be to see us destroy DePaul by 20 points at home?
matt
Let's get weird
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2010
- Messages
- 5,152
- Reaction score
- 4,057
- Points
- 113
More excited than I would be to see us beat Texas A&M - Corpus Christi by 30.