STrib: Gophers men's basketball roster has entirely different look after transfer portal exodus

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BarnBurner said:
Coach Ben Johnson Protection Detail, began the day he was announced as coach of Mn and continues today led by Mnvcguy and jbag.
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as opposed to the Ben Johnson must go Detail, which for some also began the day he was announced - because he wasn't a big name, he didn't have enough experience, and according to some, he was a "diversity hire" - meaning he was only hired because he's black.

look - a different coach would have done things differently. the results might have been better. but unless that coach brought some big-money boosters along with him, any coach at MN would have been still dealing with the NIL shortfall.

I know some people believe that a Musselman or a Dutcher would have brought in all kinds of new donations. personally, I doubt that - but there's no way to prove or disprove it.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
as opposed to the Ben Johnson must go Detail, which for some also began the day he was announced - because he wasn't a big name, he didn't have enough experience, and according to some, he was a "diversity hire" - meaning he was only hired because he's black.

look - a different coach would have done things differently. the results might have been better. but unless that coach brought some big-money boosters along with him, any coach at MN would have been still dealing with the NIL shortfall.

I know some people believe that a Musselman or a Dutcher would have brought in all kinds of new donations. personally, I doubt that - but there's no way to prove or disprove it.
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Cbj is from Minneapolis, chose another college first, transferred back to Mn, played for Mn, was an assistant at Mn.

He wasn't hired for his coaching acumen. He wasn't hired for his experience. Simply be honest.

And, the cbj protection detail discussion is accurate in my first post. There is no debate. The same clowns bobbed and weaved as the team bobbed and weaved. Be honest.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
as opposed to the Ben Johnson must go Detail, which for some also began the day he was announced - because he wasn't a big name, he didn't have enough experience, and according to some, he was a "diversity hire" - meaning he was only hired because he's black.

look - a different coach would have done things differently. the results might have been better. but unless that coach brought some big-money boosters along with him, any coach at MN would have been still dealing with the NIL shortfall.

I know some people believe that a Musselman or a Dutcher would have brought in all kinds of new donations. personally, I doubt that - but there's no way to prove or disprove it.
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The odds of one of the other options from 2021 (Smith, Medved etc) doing better than 15-44 are pretty high. It's not some coin flip scenario. The "this job sucks and no one can do any better" narrative doesn't fly. Yes it has NIL limitations etc. So do most schools Minnesota competes with.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
as opposed to the Ben Johnson must go Detail, which for some also began the day he was announced - because he wasn't a big name, he didn't have enough experience, and according to some, he was a "diversity hire" - meaning he was only hired because he's black.

look - a different coach would have done things differently. the results might have been better. but unless that coach brought some big-money boosters along with him, any coach at MN would have been still dealing with the NIL shortfall.

I know some people believe that a Musselman or a Dutcher would have brought in all kinds of new donations. personally, I doubt that - but there's no way to prove or disprove it.
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Is Burner still doing the whole Ben Johnson protection detail bit or whatever the heck it was he kept spouting off about? Good lord he is pathetic, best decision I ever made was putting him on ignore.

Like you said, maybe things would have been different with a different coach, maybe they wouldn't.

Is what it is at this point. Ben is going to be the coach for the 24-25 season no matter how much some people want to complain or bitch about it. Hopefully he found the players he needed to offset what was lost and push the team to the next level. Guess we will find out in a few months.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Is Burner still doing the whole Ben Johnson protection detail bit or whatever the heck it was he kept spouting off about? Good lord he is pathetic, best decision I ever made was putting him on ignore.

Like you said, maybe things would have been different with a different coach, maybe they wouldn't.

Is what it is at this point. Ben is going to be the coach for the 24-25 season no matter how much some people want to complain or bitch about it. Hopefully he found the players he needed to offset what was lost and push the team to the next level. Guess we will find out in a few months.
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To this point, Ben has failed as a head coach. It is not crazy to admit this.
 


Spaulding!No! said:
To this point, Ben has failed as a head coach. It is not crazy to admit this.
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No doubt that you can say he has failed based on his wins and losses. And you can argue about the talent that he's had to work with-which overall has been dismal. And anyone saying that in his first year he failed with the talent he had doesn't know a damn thing about coaching. The talent on that team was incredibly limited.

I think he was hired largely because of his potential as a recruiter. And unfortunately, NIL has changed the playing field, making "good recruiting" less valuable, especially when your NIL money is less than everyone else in the conference.

And I do believe he was starting to build something and make some progress. His team last year had talent, but it still lacked the talent of the top tier teams. 9 wins was progress. He deserves a chance to coach this year, and if they don't do well, Johnson will probably be gone.

You can say he's failed overall so far to produce a winning Big Ten team, but if you fail to have noticed progress and that he was moving in the right direction, then you'll fail to see that he deserves one more chance-if his team fails, he's out.

It's not crazy to admit that he's failed, but the "bigger picture" should allow him one more chance with this group-and anyone who "knows" how this group will do next year is a fool.
 

Formerswish said:
No doubt that you can say he has failed based on his wins and losses. And you can argue about the talent that he's had to work with-which overall has been dismal. And anyone saying that in his first year he failed with the talent he had doesn't know a damn thing about coaching. The talent on that team was incredibly limited.

I think he was hired largely because of his potential as a recruiter. And unfortunately, NIL has changed the playing field, making "good recruiting" less valuable, especially when your NIL money is less than everyone else in the conference.

And I do believe he was starting to build something and make some progress. His team last year had talent, but it still lacked the talent of the top tier teams. 9 wins was progress. He deserves a chance to coach this year, and if they don't do well, Johnson will probably be gone.

You can say he's failed overall so far to produce a winning Big Ten team, but if you fail to have noticed progress and that he was moving in the right direction, then you'll fail to see that he deserves one more chance-if his team fails, he's out.

It's not crazy to admit that he's failed, but the "bigger picture" should allow him one more chance with this group-and anyone who "knows" how this group will do next year is a fool.
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To fail as a HC is to have a W-L level below expected based on the team's talent level.
To fail as a recruiter is to negatively affect the team's talent level.
To evaluate either, you need to correctly evaluate the team's talent level.
That is not always an easy task.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
To this point, Ben has failed as a head coach. It is not crazy to admit this.
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I don't think there is anyone here who doesn't think Ben's first 3 years have been rough. It is why basically everyone would agree that the team needs to make the tournament in year 4 or he should be fired.

The team showed enough improvement in year 3 to warrant a year 4.....but with all the roster turnover it would not have been shocking to see Coyle make the move after the season regardless. He elected not too so Johnson is going to be the coach for at least one more season.

Some of us are willing to accept that fact and hope for the best. Others will just continue to gripe and complain. To each their own, I would prefer to have hope that things will go well instead of just assuming everything is going to go poorly.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Is Burner still doing the whole Ben Johnson protection detail bit or whatever the heck it was he kept spouting off about? Good lord he is pathetic, best decision I ever made was putting him on ignore.

Like you said, maybe things would have been different with a different coach, maybe they wouldn't.

Is what it is at this point. Ben is going to be the coach for the 24-25 season no matter how much some people want to complain or bitch about it. Hopefully he found the players he needed to offset what was lost and push the team to the next level. Guess we will find out in a few months.
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Eye own Mnvcguy.
 



Formerswish said:
No doubt that you can say he has failed based on his wins and losses. And you can argue about the talent that he's had to work with-which overall has been dismal. And anyone saying that in his first year he failed with the talent he had doesn't know a damn thing about coaching. The talent on that team was incredibly limited.

I think he was hired largely because of his potential as a recruiter. And unfortunately, NIL has changed the playing field, making "good recruiting" less valuable, especially when your NIL money is less than everyone else in the conference.

And I do believe he was starting to build something and make some progress. His team last year had talent, but it still lacked the talent of the top tier teams. 9 wins was progress. He deserves a chance to coach this year, and if they don't do well, Johnson will probably be gone.

You can say he's failed overall so far to produce a winning Big Ten team, but if you fail to have noticed progress and that he was moving in the right direction, then you'll fail to see that he deserves one more chance-if his team fails, he's out.

It's not crazy to admit that he's failed, but the "bigger picture" should allow him one more chance with this group-and anyone who "knows" how this group will do next year is a fool.
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Thanks for the response. I agree Ben earned another year. Go gophs!
 

MNVCGUY said:
There has never been a Ben Johnson fan club. There has been those that have been willing to give him a chance and there are those that gave up on him the moment he was hired. Even those willing to give him a chance feel strongly that the team needs to make the NCAA tournament this season for him to keep his job.

Still waiting for examples of the contingent of posters saying that Johnson has done a fantastic job over his 3 years here. They must post on a different board because they definitely don't post here.
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How is Ben supposed to make the NCAA Tournament when 3 very good starters got bribed away for $500K+ each?
 

XMan said:
Hard to lose all the players. But Payne and Hawkins are the only two they will miss. And Carrington and JOJ leaving may be a blessing with what we are hearing about their locker room dissection. I like all the players he has added. Several of them played quality starting minutes at their old programs. They have experience. Then the freshman…..Asuma will take time but I believe he is going to be good. I believe this team will be better than last year.
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ONLY two?

Sure, let's just remove Jacobson & Thomas from our Final Four team. And Newbern & Coffey from our Final-8 team.

That's a lot of fun.
 









short ornery norwegian said:
as opposed to the Ben Johnson must go Detail, which for some also began the day he was announced - because he wasn't a big name, he didn't have enough experience, and according to some, he was a "diversity hire" - meaning he was only hired because he's black.

look - a different coach would have done things differently. the results might have been better. but unless that coach brought some big-money boosters along with him, any coach at MN would have been still dealing with the NIL shortfall.

I know some people believe that a Musselman or a Dutcher would have brought in all kinds of new donations. personally, I doubt that - but there's no way to prove or disprove it.
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I am sorry but the "wouldn't bring in more money so we would still suck" argument is total hogwash. First of all it assumes that there is no one that cares about Gopher Sports enough to donate...which is disproven by the football team. Fleck brings in plenty of money to spread around to his players by doing a lot of the public facing stuff Ben chooses not to do. Second, it assumes that Dutcher or Musselman would not have been able to recruit better than Ben even if they still left after a year...which I highly doubt. Third, it assumes that given the exact same teams neither coach would have won more games...I will take that bet all day long.

This is not an "I Hate Ben" rant (I want him to succeed for dozens of reasons) but I am sick and tired of this BS woe is me crap that goes on where Gopher fans assume the school has no money and no chance to improve so just suck it up and embrace the mediocrity. We wont have the money a lot of schools have but we aren't Oliver Twist either and there is money out there to be won over. The fans need something to be excited about and while before "improvement" would have been enough in an era where players leave en masse every year you need a coach out front who inspires hope and will shake the hands and kiss the babies. I know that goes against our "Oh Garsh Dontcha Know Midwestern Sensibilities Yasureyoubetcha" but that is just the way of the world. Some want us to go sleezy, which I am against but we can be better than we are with just a few changes.
 

Formerswish said:
No doubt that you can say he has failed based on his wins and losses. And you can argue about the talent that he's had to work with-which overall has been dismal. And anyone saying that in his first year he failed with the talent he had doesn't know a damn thing about coaching. The talent on that team was incredibly limited.

I think he was hired largely because of his potential as a recruiter. And unfortunately, NIL has changed the playing field, making "good recruiting" less valuable, especially when your NIL money is less than everyone else in the conference.

And I do believe he was starting to build something and make some progress. His team last year had talent, but it still lacked the talent of the top tier teams. 9 wins was progress. He deserves a chance to coach this year, and if they don't do well, Johnson will probably be gone.

You can say he's failed overall so far to produce a winning Big Ten team, but if you fail to have noticed progress and that he was moving in the right direction, then you'll fail to see that he deserves one more chance-if his team fails, he's out.

It's not crazy to admit that he's failed, but the "bigger picture" should allow him one more chance with this group-and anyone who "knows" how this group will do next year is a fool.
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This is all true, but much of that "progress" went right out the door which is why progress isn't really relevant. You are gambling that he can do that year in and year out and that is a gamble this school can't really afford with an apathetic fanbase.

He earned this last chance...but he is behind the 8 ball big time.
 



Dave H said:
Why do you keep responding to your own posts like you are talking to yourself? Just edit the original post and add your comments...
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I did not know.
I'll try that next time.
 

Dave H said:
I am sorry but the "wouldn't bring in more money so we would still suck" argument is total hogwash. First of all it assumes that there is no one that cares about Gopher Sports enough to donate...which is disproven by the football team. Fleck brings in plenty of money to spread around to his players by doing a lot of the public facing stuff Ben chooses not to do. Second, it assumes that Dutcher or Musselman would not have been able to recruit better than Ben even if they still left after a year...which I highly doubt. Third, it assumes that given the exact same teams neither coach would have won more games...I will take that bet all day long.

This is not an "I Hate Ben" rant (I want him to succeed for dozens of reasons) but I am sick and tired of this BS woe is me crap that goes on where Gopher fans assume the school has no money and no chance to improve so just suck it up and embrace the mediocrity. We wont have the money a lot of schools have but we aren't Oliver Twist either and there is money out there to be won over. The fans need something to be excited about and while before "improvement" would have been enough in an era where players leave en masse every year you need a coach out front who inspires hope and will shake the hands and kiss the babies. I know that goes against our "Oh Garsh Dontcha Know Midwestern Sensibilities Yasureyoubetcha" but that is just the way of the world. Some want us to go sleezy, which I am against but we can be better than we are with just a few changes.
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Embracing mediocrity would be a large step up from where we are now. We're being told to embrace the suck. 15-44. No one can do any better than that apparently.
 

howeda7 said:
Embracing mediocrity would be a large step up from where we are now. We're being told to embrace the suck. 15-44. No one can do any better than that apparently.
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Outside of Pilgrim (who is his own breed of crazy) where are people saying anything like that? On a board where disagreeing and arguing is the default mode of discourse, there is near universal agreement that Ben should be fired if the team doesn't make the NCAA tournament in 24-25.

Whatever honeymoon there was is over. I swear there are some of you here that are preaching to a group of posters that don't exist because you are so determined to get your negative viewpoint across.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Outside of Pilgrim (who is his own breed of crazy) where are people saying anything like that? On a board where disagreeing and arguing is the default mode of discourse, there is near universal agreement that Ben should be fired if the team doesn't make the NCAA tournament in 24-25.

Whatever honeymoon there was is over. I swear there are some of you here that are preaching to a group of posters that don't exist because you are so determined to get your negative viewpoint across.
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The embrace the suck comment is a Ben Johnson quote
 

howeda7 said:
How many years should poor Ben be given then?
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He was a young first-time head coach who inherited an empty roster. So I wouldn't obsess over the first 2 years' won-loss record.

He put together a valuable team that just got put up for public auction.
 

Dave H said:
I am sorry but the "wouldn't bring in more money so we would still suck" argument is total hogwash. First of all it assumes that there is no one that cares about Gopher Sports enough to donate...which is disproven by the football team. Fleck brings in plenty of money to spread around to his players by doing a lot of the public facing stuff Ben chooses not to do. Second, it assumes that Dutcher or Musselman would not have been able to recruit better than Ben even if they still left after a year...which I highly doubt. Third, it assumes that given the exact same teams neither coach would have won more games...I will take that bet all day long.

This is not an "I Hate Ben" rant (I want him to succeed for dozens of reasons) but I am sick and tired of this BS woe is me crap that goes on where Gopher fans assume the school has no money and no chance to improve so just suck it up and embrace the mediocrity. We wont have the money a lot of schools have but we aren't Oliver Twist either and there is money out there to be won over. The fans need something to be excited about and while before "improvement" would have been enough in an era where players leave en masse every year you need a coach out front who inspires hope and will shake the hands and kiss the babies. I know that goes against our "Oh Garsh Dontcha Know Midwestern Sensibilities Yasureyoubetcha" but that is just the way of the world. Some want us to go sleezy, which I am against but we can be better than we are with just a few changes.
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This is hogwash.

The U has the money to keep Payne, Hawkins, & Christie. But they chose not to. Ben or Fleck running around kissing babies won't make any difference. It's not like Fleck is paying any players what our basketball players commanded at auction.

Plus players come FIRST...before winning big.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Outside of Pilgrim (who is his own breed of crazy) where are people saying anything like that? On a board where disagreeing and arguing is the default mode of discourse, there is near universal agreement that Ben should be fired if the team doesn't make the NCAA tournament in 24-25.

Whatever honeymoon there was is over. I swear there are some of you here that are preaching to a group of posters that don't exist because you are so determined to get your negative viewpoint across.
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There's no disagreeing or arguing on this board. Everyone is the same.

Win and the coach is a genius. Lose and the coach is a bum. No matter what the circumstances...literally.

A great team getting put up for auction...is still all Ben's fault. Nobody here has a brain.
 

GopherBlood777 said:
The embrace the suck comment is a Ben Johnson quote
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Yeah...said in relation to the start of his tenure at Minnesota. He isn't using it in relation to his year 4 squad, he knows he isn't going to get the leeway to go through a second rebuild and really struggle. He has to retool the roster and do well this season or he is almost certainly out of a job at this time next year.

Some of you latch onto comments and just can't let them go. It is kind of like on the football side where there are still people who bring up the year zero comment Fleck made.
 

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