STrib: Gophers attendance drop among nation's steepest declines, lowest since 1992

[Pompous Elitist]

It’s been argued here that dropping prices will harm the program in some way, revenue wise or otherwise and good managers don’t do that. They argued it would look bad if they then had to raise prices in the future. Yeah, I don’t get it either.

Lower prices do not work - this point is being made all over America today as consumers are not buying crap they don’t need at prices they cannot afford.

 

[Tucker32]

I AGREE. It's really easy to make Coyle the scapegoat. How about the fans who don't show up; especially the people who post on here who complain, but don't buy season tickets or ever attend a game.

Do you think the U is lying about the attendance, and there were more than 15,160 at that game? Why would they do that?

It’s about losing, and people, other than a number of strong Fleck supporters on here, have generally not bought into Flecks RTB and PJU message. In fact, it has turned many away, including myself. When I said I was giving up my season tickets, many Fleck disciples said, “We don’t need you...”



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[mnsportsgeek]

If this article is true then the local MLS team out drew Gopher Football in the same stadium this year.

Absolutely no excuse for that. Lower ticket prices, make game day better, and beat Wisconsin once a decade.

It's not rocket science. This is D1 Football in America. If you can't draw 40,000 in a 10 year old stadium in the Minneapolis metro, then hang it up.

 

[Tucker32]

If you were satisfied that what was happening under Kill and Claeys is the best we could do, go for it. Fleck is trying to change 50 years of terrible and mediocre football with a couple of decent years thrown in. If you don't get what he is trying to do and that it's going to take time then you nit living in reality.

He inherited a strong base of kids going to class, working hard, and winning. He could have continued to build on that with his messaging. He chose to dismiss that and go another direction. His choice, but obviously many people are not buying it.

Yes, he is trying to change 50 years... so what. I don’t think he has a track record that people just follow him. Previous coaches (Mason, Kill) had demonstrated turn arounds at multiple stops before coming here, and PJ had success at one. And, his approach of acquiring more talent than the rest of the conference isn’t going to work here because he isn’t doing that. It is not as simple as waiting for our talent to mature like he did at WMU. Wisconsin’s defense, for example, is younger than our defense, they return 8 starters on offense from what they list on depth chart for Saturday, and they have as many freshman and sophomore’s on their roster as we do. Maturity alone will not win games as other programs are doing that same thing, with equal or better recruiting classes.

It will be interesting to see what happens, because fans are not buying PJ’s message alone in the short-term, and will need to see winning relatively quickly next year.

Personally, I wish he would simply tone down all the rhetoric, and I think fans would connect with him more.


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[Word]

It’s been argued here that dropping prices will harm the program in some way, revenue wise or otherwise and good managers don’t do that. They argued it would look bad if they then had to raise prices in the future. Yeah, I don’t get it either.

Lower prices do not work - this point is being made all over America today as consumers are not buying crap they don’t need at prices they cannot afford.

There have been lots of people, myself included, that have mentioned they dropped their season tickets due in large part to the prices.

I still have Twins partial season tickets because the price is right. If they went up I would probably drop them too.

 

[rockford]

Lower prices do not work - this point is being made all over America today as consumers are not buying crap they don’t need at prices they cannot afford.

There are two different thoughts here, and they conflict.

"Lower prices do not work." That would probably come as a surprise to anyone who has studied basic economics. In fact, the law of demand states that "conditional on all else being equal, as the price of a good increases, quantity demanded decreases; conversely, as the price of a good decreases, quantity demanded increases."

If you don't think that's true, consider the sales of flat screen TVs. Did everybody have 'em when they cost $1,000? How about when you could get 'em for $300?

"Consumers are not buying crap they don't need at prices they cannot afford."

Agreed. The underlying issue is that the purchasing power of the median American household has been pretty much stagnant for the last 30-40 years. More and more of the wealth is in the hands of a smaller piece of the population. So if you're selling a product and you want to cater to the very wealthy, that's certainly you're right. But that's a really ****ty approach for a public university, funded by public dollars.

JTG

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

Attendance has always been an issue for the Gophers but this season it is becoming a crisis and it must be dealt with in the offseason by the administration. Not only have you lost 1/3 of your customers in 2 years but of the customers that remain, only about half still have the passion to even show up. It isn't an option to simply stay the course and hope that the team reaches the Rose Bowl next year. Here are some things they should immediately pursue. Some are easier than others.

1. Immediately roll back the price to 2013 levels....or maybe even a bit lower.
2. Attempt to personally contact every ticket holder that has dropped their seats since the price increase, apologize and offer them free tickets to any game next year...yes, this includes Wisconsin or Nebraska. Just do it.
3. Lobby the city of Mpls to modify their tailgate zoning restrictions so the business in DinkyTown can start hosting parties. Yeah Yeah Yeah....can't fight city hall. Screw this. We're the state's flagship university and are planted in the heart of your metro area....just do it. Yes, our lobbyists would be better served in St. Paul but it's too late for that. We screwed up and now reallocate their efforts in Mpls City Hall. Deal with it.
4. Start offering your season ticket holders discounted tickets prior to the public....even Wisconsin and Nebraska games. Yes, they currently offer first dibs but that is with the grossly inflated prices. Once you reset the price back to what the market demands then people (like me) would gladly buy them up in order to bring family and friends. If you are worried about some of them going on stubhub and being bought by rivals? Too bad. At least a college football fan will be sitting in that seat instead of an empty space. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
5. If the students refuse to support the team and the demand is there, start reducing the size of the section. Nothing is more depressing than seeing that entire upper endzone empty. Give them away to middle schools for all I care.
6. Rework the concessions contract. Gone are the days of $9.50 beer. Get those things down to $5-6. Get hot dogs down to about $3. Make it so people that want to eat/drink at a game can actually afford it. Yeah, you might not make a ton of money on food. Tough. We're trying to get people bought into your main product again and the budget might have to be lean a few years.

 

[Word]

There are two different thoughts here, and they conflict.

"Lower prices do not work." That would probably come as a surprise to anyone who has studied basic economics. In fact, the law of demand states that "conditional on all else being equal, as the price of a good increases, quantity demanded decreases; conversely, as the price of a good decreases, quantity demanded increases."

If you don't think that's true, consider the sales of flat screen TVs. Did everybody have 'em when they cost $1,000? How about when you could get 'em for $300?

"Consumers are not buying crap they don't need at prices they cannot afford."

Agreed. The underlying issue is that the purchasing power of the median American household has been pretty much stagnant for the last 30-40 years. More and more of the wealth is in the hands of a smaller piece of the population. So if you're selling a product and you want to cater to the very wealthy, that's certainly you're right. But that's a really ****ty approach for a public university, funded by public dollars.

JTG

Your latter point is illustrated by Gopher hockey - so many season tickets bought buy corporations that can afford them. But they don't end up using the tickets half the time and you have prime seats sitting empty.

I really think the Twins have that stuff figured out pretty well. The Twins have mostly been pretty awful the last ten years and they actually outdrew AL Central champions Cleveland this year. They have enough tiers of pricing to fit all kinds of fans. The family that is on a tight budget can still go to a Twins game. I think the Gophers and Twins probably have the most in common as their target market among sports team competitors too, so maybe the Gophers could learn a little from the Twins?

 

[rockford]

Baseball has always had the most fan-friendly prices. Of course, having 81 home games a season helps a lot.

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[leadpipegopher]

He inherited a strong base of kids going to class, working hard, and winning. He could have continued to build on that with his messaging. He chose to dismiss that and go another direction. His choice, but obviously many people are not buying it.

Yes, he is trying to change 50 years... so what. I don’t think he has a track record that people just follow him. Previous coaches (Mason, Kill) had demonstrated turn arounds at multiple stops before coming here, and PJ had success at one. And, his approach of acquiring more talent than the rest of the conference isn’t going to work here because he isn’t doing that. It is not as simple as waiting for our talent to mature like he did at WMU. Wisconsin’s defense, for example, is younger than our defense, they return 8 starters on offense from what they list on depth chart for Saturday, and they have as many freshman and sophomore’s on their roster as we do. Maturity alone will not win games as other programs are doing that same thing, with equal or better recruiting classes.

It will be interesting to see what happens, because fans are not buying PJ’s message alone in the short-term, and will need to see winning relatively quickly next year.

Personally, I wish he would simply tone down all the rhetoric, and I think fans would connect with him more.


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Very well said

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Attendance has always been an issue for the Gophers but this season it is becoming a crisis and it must be dealt with in the offseason by the administration. Not only have you lost 1/3 of your customers in 2 years but of the customers that remain, only about half still have the passion to even show up. It isn't an option to simply stay the course and hope that the team reaches the Rose Bowl next year. Here are some things they should immediately pursue. Some are easier than others.

1. Immediately roll back the price to 2013 levels....or maybe even a bit lower.
2. Attempt to personally contact every ticket holder that has dropped their seats since the price increase, apologize and offer them free tickets to any game next year...yes, this includes Wisconsin or Nebraska. Just do it.
3. Lobby the city of Mpls to modify their tailgate zoning restrictions so the business in DinkyTown can start hosting parties. Yeah Yeah Yeah....can't fight city hall. Screw this. We're the state's flagship university and are planted in the heart of your metro area....just do it. Yes, our lobbyists would be better served in St. Paul but it's too late for that. We screwed up and now reallocate their efforts in Mpls City Hall. Deal with it.
4. Start offering your season ticket holders discounted tickets prior to the public....even Wisconsin and Nebraska games. Yes, they currently offer first dibs but that is with the grossly inflated prices. Once you reset the price back to what the market demands then people (like me) would gladly buy them up in order to bring family and friends. If you are worried about some of them going on stubhub and being bought by rivals? Too bad. At least a college football fan will be sitting in that seat instead of an empty space. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
5. If the students refuse to support the team and the demand is there, start reducing the size of the section. Nothing is more depressing than seeing that entire upper endzone empty. Give them away to middle schools for all I care.
6. Rework the concessions contract. Gone are the days of $9.50 beer. Get those things down to $5-6. Get hot dogs down to about $3. Make it so people that want to eat/drink at a game can actually afford it. Yeah, you might not make a ton of money on food. Tough. We're trying to get people bought into your main product again and the budget might have to be lean a few years.

These are great ideas, but they are too fan friendly to appeal to Coyle. The athletic department's actions have repeatedly said that short term revenue is more important than developing long term fan loyalty or a better game day environment.

 

[OddStack]

Lakeville North vs. Lakeville South in the state semi-finals last week outdrew the last 3 U games and they were priced at $16 adult tickets and $10 student tickets. Keep growing your best PJ.


FYI: How about this answer for PJ instead of not caring, "I'd be lying to say it doesn't matter, yet I understand we need to keep growing and win more to generate excitement in the program. When we win at a high and consistent level, and we will, the attendance will take care of itself. Next year will be better and the year after that will be better than that . Growth will happen and we'll eventually all be happy."

 

[CharchyCharch]

Fleck fell into a Brewster sized hole that already occupied a Coyle. Those 2 need to figure a way out. I'd hire Yudof and tell every U employee - IN or OUT - no in between. This includes the regents.

 

[rockford]

Attendance has always been an issue for the Gophers but this season it is becoming a crisis and it must be dealt with in the offseason by the administration. Not only have you lost 1/3 of your customers in 2 years but of the customers that remain, only about half still have the passion to even show up. It isn't an option to simply stay the course and hope that the team reaches the Rose Bowl next year. Here are some things they should immediately pursue. Some are easier than others.

1. Immediately roll back the price to 2013 levels....or maybe even a bit lower.
2. Attempt to personally contact every ticket holder that has dropped their seats since the price increase, apologize and offer them free tickets to any game next year...yes, this includes Wisconsin or Nebraska. Just do it.
3. Lobby the city of Mpls to modify their tailgate zoning restrictions so the business in DinkyTown can start hosting parties. Yeah Yeah Yeah....can't fight city hall. Screw this. We're the state's flagship university and are planted in the heart of your metro area....just do it. Yes, our lobbyists would be better served in St. Paul but it's too late for that. We screwed up and now reallocate their efforts in Mpls City Hall. Deal with it.
4. Start offering your season ticket holders discounted tickets prior to the public....even Wisconsin and Nebraska games. Yes, they currently offer first dibs but that is with the grossly inflated prices. Once you reset the price back to what the market demands then people (like me) would gladly buy them up in order to bring family and friends. If you are worried about some of them going on stubhub and being bought by rivals? Too bad. At least a college football fan will be sitting in that seat instead of an empty space. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
5. If the students refuse to support the team and the demand is there, start reducing the size of the section. Nothing is more depressing than seeing that entire upper endzone empty. Give them away to middle schools for all I care.
6. Rework the concessions contract. Gone are the days of $9.50 beer. Get those things down to $5-6. Get hot dogs down to about $3. Make it so people that want to eat/drink at a game can actually afford it. Yeah, you might not make a ton of money on food. Tough. We're trying to get people bought into your main product again and the budget might have to be lean a few years.

Many sound ideas here. Well done.

The message to admin should be clear: Get off your ass and do the right thing.

JTG

 

[rockford]

How about this answer for PJ instead of not caring, "I'd be lying to say it doesn't matter, yet I understand we need to keep growing and win more to generate excitement in the program. When we win at a high and consistent level, and we will, the attendance will take care of itself. Next year will be better and the year after that will be better than that . Growth will happen and we'll eventually all be happy."

As someone who has worked in communications for most of the last 40 years, I'd be thrilled if a guy I was handling made this response.

JTG

 

[BulldogGopher]

Really. Positivity is great and all, but if he's not really concerned with this behind closed doors then he doesn't understand the culture of this program/fanbase/market dating back far beyond his era. The CEO of a company with plummeting sales is going to get fired if they don't find more customers or slow the exodus of existing ones. Just saying you feel good about your current customers (who can't be squeezed for much more revenue) doesn't cut it.

Crappy attendance has been a drag on Gopher Football since at least the mid-80s. It drags on recruiting, resources, and is a vicious cycle that encourages even more people to stay home because a 1/3 full stadium isn't a great live experience.

It is coachspeak. Of course attendance is a concern, but he’s not going to publicly admit that. Some people on this board take what Fleck says way too seriously.

Prices probably have something to do with it, but the biggest factor is the team’s performance. The casual fan is not going to get excited to watch a 5-7 team. Mention Gopher FB to a casual fan and often the first thing that comes to mind is how we haven’t been to a Rose Bowl is 50 years. People want to see the team reach a threshold they haven’t gotten to in a long time. I think 9-10 wins would get the ball rolling.

Win, and they will come.

 

[Word]

Baseball has always had the most fan-friendly prices. Of course, having 81 home games a season helps a lot.

That doesn't invalidate my point that the Twins must be doing something right that in spite of having bad teams for 10 years they just outdrew the AL Central champs who won close to 20 more games than they did. They are keeping fans coming in and interested in the team because they have a cheap way to get in. That builds loyalty and keeps up the fan base.

 

[FargoRedd]

OK, some of the rationalizing that goes on here for the school's response to awful attendance is beyond belief.

It simply impossible to believe that in any program having D1 football, from anywhere, at any time, would actually believe attendance doesn't matter. And that theoretical attendance in say, 2021, is what will count. In what world other than ours would that exist? It's astonishing the level of silliness.

And then - the person leading the program actually verbalizes they're "not worried about it . . . we just play for the people that come"?!?.

I mean, if it's come down to this, there's almost no point anymore. Jeez, and people are whining about "the media" Why the "mocking"? Why the "negative tone"? The media does not create these constant unbelievable sayings and sentiments that come out of this program.

 

[OddStack]

As someone who has worked in communications for most of the last 40 years, I'd be thrilled if a guy I was handling made this response.

JTG

FYI, I also coach. Do you have a job for me?

 

[rockford]

That doesn't invalidate my point that the Twins must be doing something right that in spite of having bad teams for 10 years they just outdrew the AL Central champs who won close to 20 more games than they did. They are keeping fans coming in and interested in the team because they have a cheap way to get in. That builds loyalty and keeps up the fan base.

I agree with you, Word, and I'm not at all trying to invalidate your point.

I'm just saying the Twins are able to do that economically because they have a lot more games to work with. All else being equal, if they have 20 or even 40 home games instead of 81, prices couldn't be so cheap.

I think the Twins tend to do a very good job marketing, although the "This is how we baseball" thing was incredibly ill-timed to the season they had.

One of the reasons I always keep an eye on the Twins is because I can afford to take the entire family to a game, or even a few games. A couple years ago, I was even able to afford partial season tickets as a Christmas gift for my oldest son, who's a big Twins fan. I think that purchase got him something like 40 seats, that he could use as he wished (take 12 people to one game, use two at another, etc). The same amount of money would not have purchase ONE season ticket in Zone 4 at TCF.

JTG

 

[SamSquatch]

Ouch. Want to walk back that one idiotic reason you gave for dismissing Claeys, Mr. Coyle?

No - getting rid of Claeys was a good move and sorely needed.

 

[rockford]

FYI, I also coach. Do you have a job for me?

Nope. But I've also coached. Got any work for me?

JTG

 

[HoustonTXGopher]

From what I can tell, this is not a problem that is unique to Gopher football. The hockey arena has looked terribly empty the past few seasons and this year is no different. I am not even sure it is a pricing issue, it might be, but there is obviously a lot of apathy for Gopher sports right now and that has to change.

 

[Panthadad2]

OK, some of the rationalizing that goes on here for the school's response to awful attendance is beyond belief.

It simply impossible to believe that in any program having D1 football, from anywhere, at any time, would actually believe attendance doesn't matter. And that theoretical attendance in say, 2021, is what will count. In what world other than ours would that exist? It's astonishing the level of silliness.

And then - the person leading the program actually verbalizes they're "not worried about it . . . we just play for the people that come"?!?.

I mean, if it's come down to this, there's almost no point anymore. Jeez, and people are whining about "the media" Why the "mocking"? Why the "negative tone"? The media does not create these constant unbelievable sayings and sentiments that come out of this program.

Fargo, are you a member of the media? This is a sincere question. You seem to be really really bothered by people's scorn of the media (well deserved in my opinion).

 

[saintpaulguy]

Baseball has always had the most fan-friendly prices. Of course, having 81 home games a season helps a lot.

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It is more than that, of course. The one visit from the Yankees on Sunday afternoon in June is different from the Royals on a Tuesday in early April. Vastly.

 

[Some guy]

From what I can tell, this is not a problem that is unique to Gopher football. The hockey arena has looked terribly empty the past few seasons and this year is no different. I am not even sure it is a pricing issue, it might be, but there is obviously a lot of apathy for Gopher sports right now and that has to change.

Agree with this.

I think it is pricing and general experience.
People don’t believe in the teams. They believe in the letdown.
Combine that with overpricing.
Combine that with games being available on TV and TV being better.


When they stop thinking about gate as revenue and starting thinking about gate as being marketing to make more indirect money they will be more successful.

Yes dropping prices will cost money. But if the stadium has 40k people or more in it, don’t you make more money in other places by selling more apparel and having more excitement?
Every year, football gate becomes a smaller percentage of the football budget.

Charge people 20 bucks to go. Have them scan tickets on the way out. If they left after the game was over give them a discount on their next purchase.

 

[FargoRedd]

Fargo, are you a member of the media? This is a sincere question. You seem to be really really bothered by people's scorn of the media (well deserved in my opinion).

Yes!! LOL. No actually. But, go look at these. My goodness, it NEVER stops on the media. Anyway, it is what it is. Moving on. No matter where people sit on subjects about college football, it's not that big of a deal i guess (our State could be in raging fire, for example). I think a lot has gotten amplified over the years and the "fun zone" gone out of it simply because now days there's just sooo much money involved. It's just an arms race of more and more and more as years go by - it gets harder and harder to take thing lightly when everything now is awash with money . . . when it's really supposed to be fun. Happy Holidays to everyone regardless of football, attendance, media, coaching opinions, whatever.

 

[Panthadad2]

Yes!! LOL. No actually. But, go look at these. My goodness, it NEVER stops on the media. Anyway, it is what it is. Moving on. No matter where people sit on subjects about college football, it's not that big of a deal i guess (our State could be in raging fire, for example). I think a lot has gotten amplified over the years and the "fun zone" gone out of it simply because now days there's just sooo much money involved. It's just an arms race of more and more and more as years go by - it gets harder and harder to take thing lightly when everything now is awash with money . . . when it's really supposed to be fun. Happy Holidays to everyone regardless of football, attendance, media, coaching opinions, whatever.

This comment about money influencing things is insightful. It's one reason I've transitioned to be more of a college football/basketball fan than NFL/NBA. And now, with a teenage daughter actively involved in sports and on track to play at a small college, I find some of the high school and small college stuff very refreshing (very little money involved).

 

[Hates Monikers]

You’re first sentence is beyond stupid. Coyle has yet to make a mistake since he’s been here. Although I will agree that it’s him who needs to make the decision to lower prices significantly for all three major men’s sports, get rid of the donation entirely. But I’m so thankful to have Coyle running the department, for the first time in a long time we have incredibly competent leadership at the top.

I can't say how Coyle is doing overall. But he's been here for three years and absolutely owns this attendance problem. Not just in football but basketball and hockey, too. He didn't start it, but he's been here long enough to do something about it -- if he were so inclined.

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[Panthadad2]

Agree with this.

I think it is pricing and general experience.
People don’t believe in the teams. They believe in the letdown.
Combine that with overpricing.
Combine that with games being available on TV and TV being better.


When they stop thinking about gate as revenue and starting thinking about gate as being marketing to make more indirect money they will be more successful.

Yes dropping prices will cost money. But if the stadium has 40k people or more in it, don’t you make more money in other places by selling more apparel and having more excitement?
Every year, football gate becomes a smaller percentage of the football budget.

Charge people 20 bucks to go. Have them scan tickets on the way out. If they left after the game was over give them a discount on their next purchase.

Your comment about "thinking about gate as being marketing" instead of just sales revenue is interesting. If you think about some of the most storied programs like Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, Notre Dame, LSU, Texas, maybe Nebraska?, definitely St. John's on a much smaller scale; or even in the NFL Green Bay, Dallas and maybe New England in the past decade or so; the mental picture of their full famous stadiums is a strong part of their brand. I can only hope the Gophers figure out how to do that on a more modest scale.

edit to the above: the full stadiums go hand in hand with winning of course.