STATE OF THE PROGRAM: Where is Gophers football right now?

[FanSinceTheFifties]

Play them? I’m talking recruiting.

I know you are. My point is that since we didn't play southern schools but rather played Big Ten schools (who would also have been affected when Southern schools began to recruit everyone) why would Southern integration hurt UM more than the rest o our conference. No, Southern schools integration had nothing to do with the Gophers decline in the Big Ten. It would have affected all the Big Ten schools. But something did.

 

[Tucker32]

Even the Big 5 are going to make it tough for the underlings to make the CCG.

I agree. And we will have to play a few of them each year now. We also didn’t fare well against the rest…

 

[OddStack]

Since Harbaugh doesn't even coach OL, I'll take this comment with a big grain of salt. We have had only one OL coach under PJ and he has been pretty damn solid.

No, Ed Wariner was here and left

 

[IceBoxGopher]

So I've been doing some looking, and fact is, the program seems to be at a level that it's been at for more than 20 years. Here are the results and win percentages since Mason.

Mason

• 1997, 3-9, 0.250
• 1998, 5-6, 0.455
• 1999, 8-4, Lost Sun Bowl, No. 17/18, 0.667
• 2000, 6-6, Lost Micron Bowl, 0.500
• 2001, 4-7, 0.364
• 2002, 8-5, Won Music City Bowl, 0.615
• 2003, 10-3, Won Sun Bowl, No. 17/20, 0.769
• 2004, 7-5, Won Music City Bowl, 0.583
• 2005, 7-5, Lost Music City Bowl, 0.583
• 2006, 6-7, Lost Insight Bowl, 0.462

Brewster/Horton

• 2007, 1-11, 0.083
• 2008, 7-6, Lost Insight Bowl, 0.538
• 2009, 6-7, Lost Insight Bowl, 0.462
• 2010, 3-9, 0.250

Kill/Claeys

• 2011, 3-9, 0.250
• 2012, 6-7, Lost Texas Bowl, 0.462
• 2013, 8-5, Lost Texas Bowl, 0.615
• 2014, 8-5, Lost Citrus Bowl (NYD), 0.615
• 2015, 6-7, Won Quick Lane Bowl, 0.462
• 2016, 9-4, Won Holiday Bowl, 0.692

Fleck

• 2017, 5-7, 0.417
• 2018, 7-6, Won Quick Lane Bowl, 0.538
• 2019, 11-2, Won Outback Bowl (NYD), No. 10/10, 0.846
• 2020, 3-4, 0.429
• 2021, 9-4, Won Guaranteed Rate Bowl, 0.692
• 2022, 9-4, Won Pinstripe Bowl, 0.692
• 2023, 5-7, 0.417

In those 27 seasons, 20 of them had Minnesota finishing with a win percentage between 0.400 and 0.700. 16 of them ended with between 5 and 8 wins.

The team has finished the season ranked three times and has gotten to a New Year's Day Bowl twice. There have been two seasons with 10 or more plus wins.

At the same time, there's only been five seasons with four wins or fewer. The state of the program feels familiar. The bottom doesn't fall out much but high points remain elusive.

 

[USAF]

In the shitter and there's a hand on the flusher.

 

[BilldGopher]

The Athletic Department is considering this design for promoting next season...



Really though...icebergs ahead...

 

[btowngopher]

But if affected UM more? So much so that we went from competing for the Big Ten title occasionally to being in the lower half of the conference? Could it be that something else also changed here in the early sixties? Something that didn't happen in the other conference schools?

I dunno I’m sure there were some other factors but that was the main one that knocked us from being a title contender consistently. It basically knocked everyone but OSU, Michigan, and PSU from being title contenders. Michigan St, Iowa, and Illinois were all national title contenders during that era.

 

[Outsider]

IIRC, Fleck stated we’d regularly have Top25 recruiting classes when he started.

Anyone else remember this?

And this is the problem, he plays such a boring brand of football that most skill position players of talent won’t come here. They want to play in a system that showcases their abilities. He’s so stubborn with TOP mantra etc that they would rather play in a system that is more balanced and throws the ball with some competency. I know, your going to say but look at the running backs we have churned out? Great but you just can’t run in today’s game and be a consistent winner. Hell even Bama throws it better then we do and they used to be like us, run it all the time. It’s been said many times, almost all other college powerhouses have the market to themselves. Very few are competing with a market filled with professional sport teams.

 

[SuperMeat]

So I've been doing some looking, and fact is, the program seems to be at a level that it's been at for more than 20 years. Here are the results and win percentages since Mason.

Mason

• 1997, 3-9, 0.250
• 1998, 5-6, 0.455
• 1999, 8-4, Lost Sun Bowl, No. 17/18, 0.667
• 2000, 6-6, Lost Micron Bowl, 0.500
• 2001, 4-7, 0.364
• 2002, 8-5, Won Music City Bowl, 0.615
• 2003, 10-3, Won Sun Bowl, No. 17/20, 0.769
• 2004, 7-5, Won Music City Bowl, 0.583
• 2005, 7-5, Lost Music City Bowl, 0.583
• 2006, 6-7, Lost Insight Bowl, 0.462

Brewster/Horton

• 2007, 1-11, 0.083
• 2008, 7-6, Lost Insight Bowl, 0.538
• 2009, 6-7, Lost Insight Bowl, 0.462
• 2010, 3-9, 0.250

Kill/Claeys

• 2011, 3-9, 0.250
• 2012, 6-7, Lost Texas Bowl, 0.462
• 2013, 8-5, Lost Texas Bowl, 0.615
• 2014, 8-5, Lost Citrus Bowl (NYD), 0.615
• 2015, 6-7, Won Quick Lane Bowl, 0.462
• 2016, 9-4, Won Holiday Bowl, 0.692

Fleck

• 2017, 5-7, 0.417
• 2018, 7-6, Won Quick Lane Bowl, 0.538
• 2019, 11-2, Won Outback Bowl (NYD), No. 10/10, 0.846
• 2020, 3-4, 0.429
• 2021, 9-4, Won Guaranteed Rate Bowl, 0.692
• 2022, 9-4, Won Pinstripe Bowl, 0.692
• 2023, 5-7, 0.417

In those 27 seasons, 20 of them had Minnesota finishing with a win percentage between 0.400 and 0.700. 16 of them ended with between 5 and 8 wins.

The team has finished the season ranked three times and has gotten to a New Year's Day Bowl twice. There have been two seasons with 10 or more plus wins.

At the same time, there's only been five seasons with four wins or fewer. The state of the program feels familiar. The bottom doesn't fall out much but high points remain elusive.

If the Big Ten West existed and was as mediocre back then when Mason and Kill were coaching they would have done better than PJ has. I think that's the real sticking point with PJ. He could have easily capitalized on a weak division and strong season, but he's just been stagnating/declining every year since 2019

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

And this is the problem, he plays such a boring brand of football that most skill position players of talent won’t come here. They want to play in a system that showcases their abilities. He’s so stubborn with TOP mantra etc that they would rather play in a system that is more balanced and throws the ball with some competency. I know, your going to say

Wow, not sure how anyone would assume this, from my question, which was not a compliment regarding the bar PJ set for recruitment, but rather an indictment - this is especially evident with the QB and WR.

but look at the running backs we have churned out? Great but you just can’t run in today’s game and be a consistent winner. Hell even Bama throws it better then we do and they used to be like us, run it all the time. It’s been said many times, almost all other college powerhouses have the market to themselves. Very few are competing with a market filled with professional sport teams.

If Fleck doesn’t adjust and join the 21st century, we’ll be in Smoky Joe inept territory before you know it.

He needs to embrace the challenge and realize it’s an opportunity and not an obstacle - live your mantra.

Your Ball control approach was gone it the previous era, but this is a different one now and that I Dream of ain’t going back in the bottle.

Can zi get an Amen?

 

[MaxyJR1]

I always feel like this is so overblown. Is there any data to suggest that a new stadium creates a massive recruiting boost?

Many think Mason with Weber and Decker would have equated to a better transition to the new stadium and possibly a boost.

 

[IceBoxGopher]

If the Big Ten West existed and was as mediocre back then when Mason and Kill were coaching they would have done better than PJ has. I think that's the real sticking point with PJ. He could have easily capitalized on a weak division and strong season, but he's just been stagnating/declining every year since 2019

Yeah I can see that. Though the Big Ten West probably would have been tougher in general during that late 90s/early 20002 era with Alvarez, Tiller, Mason and Ferentz making it fairly competitive, along with Illinois and Northwestern having a couple of strong teams in 2000 and 2001.

At the same time winning a conference title was easier back then with the chance at split championships. The Big Ten West could arguably have the same issues it has today going up against Carr, Tressel and Paterno in the title game.

 

[Outsider]

Wow, not sure how anyone would assume this, from my question, which was not a compliment regarding the bar PJ set for recruitment, but rather an indictment - this is especially evident with the QB and WR.


If Fleck doesn’t adjust and join the 21st century, we’ll be in Smoky Joe inept territory before you know it.

He needs to embrace the challenge and realize it’s an opportunity and not an obstacle - live your mantra.

Your Ball control approach was gone it the previous era, but this is a different one now and that I Dream of ain’t going back in the bottle.

Can zi get an Amen?

Wasn’t necessarily directed at you, it was in general people will look at our running game and say that.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Wasn’t necessarily directed at you, it was in general people will look at our running game and say that.

Txs got clarifying,

Bo and Woody ain’t coaching any longer!!!!

What flummoxes me, is that Fleck is still a young man; his rigidity is mind boggling to me, essentially cause he was a WR.

 

[FredCoxRocks]

A good buddy of mine that follows college football way more than anyone I know of (and probably more than many CFB columnists) told me at the beginning of the season that they'd be 5-7 and I usually respect his opinions, so my expectations were pretty tempered this season, but it was still frustrating to watch. He said just wait a year, it'll get better. I hope he's right.
Anyway, many of us are disappointed but we'll all be back next August, looking forward to another season. SUMRTBGG.

 

[Dakota2]

I think it helps a lot. Our stadium is awesome and right on campus makes a big difference. If we were still trying to scrape out a living in the Metrodome, I think it would be a disaster. I also don’t think the cold makes that much difference with an outdoor stadium. The whole big 10 to one degree or another is in cold weather territory.

Yet Mason was able to get some of the greatest Gophers all time to play in the Dome. Style of football played by the coaches has more to do with which recruits will come than the stadium and city.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Tough to compare. Impossible to say anyone is the best coach. Mason got robbed by not being able to coach at the bank, never know what could have happened. Mason had huge potential had he been able to recruit the bank.

This Program is in the danger zone and next year is critical for Fleck.

Mason also provided some big wins.

 

[Tech Machine]

A good buddy of mine that follows college football way more than anyone I know of (and probably more than many CFB columnists) told me at the beginning of the season that they'd be 5-7 and I usually respect his opinions, so my expectations were pretty tempered this season, but it was still frustrating to watch. He said just wait a year, it'll get better. I hope he's right.
Anyway, many of us are disappointed but we'll all be back next August, looking forward to another season. SUMRTBGG.

There were also some National publications saying 5-7, of course I thought they were full of it. But the spectacular nature of NW, Ill, and Purdue losses and overall regression as a team make it unpalatable.
Talking up the qb as a future draft pick was really a mistake, put pressure on the kid and got the fan base probably over hyped.

 

[SHGopher]

Passing game is bad.

AK the four-star recruit with some experience, optimistically, was to raise the passing game.

I do not know the why's, some say coaching, QB game play, the moon rays... whatever, I don't know the answers.

 

[Harrymannback77]

Where’d you matriculate to?

Baylor. And chose baseball.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

In his post-game interview with Gaard, Fleck said that this was a "realignment" year.

I don't remember hearing that before the season, or at any time during the season.

but now that the regular season is over, suddenly the whole season was a "realignment" year.

that sounds like "Year Zero" to me.

Fleck may call them "reasons," but some of them sure sound like excuses.

to me, Fleck's whole tone has changed during the season. all of the talk about injuries, NIL, the Portal - he sounds like someone who is worried that things are not going his way and he's trying to change the narrative.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

In his post-game interview with Gaard, Fleck said that this was a "realignment" year.

I don't remember hearing that before the season, or at any time during the season.

but now that the regular season is over, suddenly the whole season was a "realignment" year.

that sounds like "Year Zero" to me.

Fleck may call them "reasons," but some of them sure sound like excuses.

to me, Fleck's whole tone has changed during the season. all of the talk about injuries, NIL, the Portal - he sounds like someone who is worried that things are not going his way and he's trying to change the narrative.

excuses vs. answers

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

In his post-game interview with Gaard, Fleck said that this was a "realignment" year.

I don't remember hearing that before the season, or at any time during the season.

but now that the regular season is over, suddenly the whole season was a "realignment" year.

that sounds like "Year Zero" to me.

Fleck may call them "reasons," but some of them sure sound like excuses.

to me, Fleck's whole tone has changed during the season. all of the talk about injuries, NIL, the Portal - he sounds like someone who is worried that things are not going his way and he's trying to change the narrative.

Does that mean we should be aligned next year? Or do you need another year 0 after a realignment year?

 

[PMWinSTP]

In his post-game interview with Gaard, Fleck said that this was a "realignment" year.

I don't remember hearing that before the season, or at any time during the season.

but now that the regular season is over, suddenly the whole season was a "realignment" year.

that sounds like "Year Zero" to me.

Fleck may call them "reasons," but some of them sure sound like excuses.

to me, Fleck's whole tone has changed during the season. all of the talk about injuries, NIL, the Portal - he sounds like someone who is worried that things are not going his way and he's trying to change the narrative.

Did he display "poise" during the interview?

 

[PMWinSTP]

Does that mean we should be aligned next year? Or do you need another year 0 after a realignment year?

Realignment becomes "reset" next year? No way Coyle should do anything to extend his contract like he usually does.

 

[FinnGopher]

Gopher football is in hibernation, sleeping away while the rest of the football world continues on.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

get ready for the usual media people to go ape about a 5-7 team in a bowl game.

Barreiro spent a chunk of his Sunday show on the topic. He said the season is a failure and a 5-7 team in a bowl game is a joke.

 

[Panthadad2]

Both sides of the ball ended up in the bottom quarter of the BG10 in conference play this year. The 3-6 record is not a fluke (unlike Iowa's good record).

The offense was bad last year by Fleck's Gopher standards, but this year was even worse and on par with the horrendous 2017 offense. Part of that drop off can be explained by having a new inexperienced offensive coordinator and the loss of a stud RB and Center. Going into this year, my impression was that the overall quality of players on offense were better than the 2017 team. If that's true, it all leads back to coaching. Kirk's offense at Rutgers was even worse than the Gophers and he wasn't exactly on fire last year, so his loss wouldn't seem to be a major factor.

The dramatic drop off on the defensive side of ball worries me more. That defense has been the differentiator between having a bubble bowl eligible team every year to 9+ win teams. How much of the drop off is related to the quality of players/recruits on the field, key injuries, or the loss of multiple defensive assistants?

Fleck won't make public his internal analysis of what needs to be fixed, so I hope there is some rational outside analysis of what's happening. There appears to be multiple holes that need to be filled.

 

[salzie]

Like most on here, very frustrating season. I don't think PJ sucks, I don't think we need to burn it all down, I don't think every commit will decommit, etc

I do think changes need to be made. I agree PJ needs to change his best and play a little more aggressive, we're not going to be an air raid offense, but man, it was pathetic. And there was issues all over, Wr's falling down, missing open WR's, hitting open WR's but then they drop it

Defense, I was not expecting defense to drop so dramatically, embarrassing losses to NW, Illinois, and Purdue where defense just was garbage in key spots and you could throw WI in there as well

Special teams, continue to be an issue, we need to fire ST coaching and replace him, enough is enough

There are challenges to MN jobs, most MN fans get that, we're not a blue blood program and that isn't changing. We don't have booster or NIL support to play with the big boys on a consistent basis, that isn't changing. MN isn't a hotbed for football, so local recruits can't carry a team, that isn't changing. Those aren't excuses, it's the reality of situation

BUT there is no reason we can't be Iowa level good, Wisconsin level good, etc. We had been trending that way and this year was a set back, I think PJ has earned the right to attempt to fix it, I think 1-2 more years and we better see some growth.

 

[disco]

UCLA and Washington are not in the same league as the other 5 at all. Washington hasn’t been very good, but have a great QB this year. UCLA hasn’t won what has often been a bad conference since in the 90s.

Washington has seven conference titles since 1990 including a national championship team. We've had nothing since 1967.