STATE FOOTBALL HEADED TO THE METRODOME

[MNVCGUY]

I thought everyone stayed at the games between sessions!? This is precisely the reason that both sites are the same from a traffic perspective. People come and go to the different events throughout the day (as they already do), eat at one of the MANY restaurants/bars close to the stadium in DT/SV, and either go back to another game or head home.

1 year. The LRT will be complete in 2013, with passenger service starting in 2014. The 2012 Prep Bowl is already being played at the Dome. I was never advocating to switch before the Dome becomes inoperable. Keep in mind that
More high school kids and college kids attend regular season football games outside than inside than pro football in Minnesota. This should make for a natural transition.

For the same reason the U wanted to play outdoor football. All weather is football weather, fans have proven time and again that for big games or events (late season college games, outdoor hockey, NHL hockey classics played outdoors, etc) that weather is not an issue for attendance. I will give another reason. Cost. The U could extend the offer to do this for free (as it is a marketing/advertising/fan building experience for themselves), splitting concessions and parking revenue with MSHSL, which is what I'd do.

The MSHSL absolutely would benefit from a strong collegiate, D1-level football program for the same reason that high school hockey in this state is strong in part as a result of strong hockey teams at the U of M and UND. A better relationship between the MSHSL and the U makes for a stronger commitment from athletes to the sport of football, fans being involved, and money for ticket sales at events like this. I guarantee you that football participation in states where the D1 program is big (think Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc) is better than states where there is a lack of or or under-performing D1-school. Therefore, the MSHSL has more incentive to partner with a flagship D1 football program than a sports commission/pro sports team combination. Beyond that, this is an opportunity to embrace our state's weather as a defining characteristic for football the same way we do for Hockey Day with outdoor hockey. Football is meant to be played outdoors (one of the major marketing campaigns surrounding the building of TCF). If the Prep Bowl was in middle January, I might be siding with you.

If you are not advocating a move until the dome is inoperable then what the hell are we discussing this for. Did I mention I really don't care?

 

[MaxyJR1]

Interesting that 2 conferences all got big school tourney teams.

High school football is way down right now in minnesota. This Rosemount team that is in the state tourney may have gotten last in their conference in 2007

Boys read your bulletin board material. Just beat Edina 14-10.

 

[OddStack]

Boys read your bulletin board material. Just beat Edina 14-10.

There's your proof! A .500 team during the regular season, that got beat 35-0 in last game by Lkvl North, just beat the #1 team. A down year for MN HS football

 

[MaxyJR1]

All 4 teams they lost to are still playing.

 

[OddStack]

All 4 teams they lost to are still playing.

yep...4 losses by a total of 77 points. Not an attack on Rosemount, just a commentary that there's a lot of parity and not a lot of top end talent.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Smash mouth football prevails in MN.

 

[patrick08]

Wisconsin plays their football state championships at Camp Randall (sure, they don't have a dome in the state so basically apples to oranges). But it might add a slight recruiting edge for the Badgers when it comes to in-state recruits. Many kids that end up playing in Camp Randall for State have childhood dreams of playing there, whether it is for HS football, or as a Badger. TCF was built with the purpose of being Minnesota's Football Stadium. Why not have State football played on the State's football field.

It would also be easy for Kill or any on his staff to pop by during the games and check out some possible recruits, schedule permitting of course.

+100

 

[Rosemountian]

All 4 teams they lost to are still playing.

Ask the head coach how good this team is.
Coach erdmann would tell you that they went to playing a number of sophomores because they didn't think they had the talent to make a run. Now they are making a run playing a bunch of younger guys.
Coach erdmann would tell you that the team 2 years ago would beat this years version by about 30. And the only reason it would be that close is because the midline offense would keep the clock running. 2012 Rosemount may be a top 4-6 team in the state this year. But they wouldn't have been a top 4-6 team in their conference 4-5 years back when the state was playing better football. It is really down this year.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Here is a link with quoates from the MSHSL on future Prep Bowls. LINK

Reminder that Semi-finals start tomorrow and run through Saturday at the Dome. Games are streamed online.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

There's your proof! A .500 team during the regular season, that got beat 35-0 in last game by Lkvl North, just beat the #1 team. A down year for MN HS football

I suck at math, but by my count, the tournament started out with 56 section champions (way too many, IMO). Only 16 of those teams were undefeated.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I suck at math, but by my count, the tournament started out with 56 section champions (way too many, IMO). Only 16 of those teams were undefeated.

Should be 52. the top class, Class AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (okay, not that many A's, but seems like it) has four sections.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

From the article:

"The University of Minnesota’s TCF Bank Stadium is the most likely option, but scheduling dilemmas at the home of the Minnesota Gophers — and the Vikings during the construction phase — mean changes are afoot at the high school level."

What did the teams do when they played in a facility that the Gophers and Vikings both played at? Doesn't seem like a huge deal.

“When you get to this time of year, you have no idea what the weather is going to be like. When you’re playing high-caliber teams, you don’t want weather to be a factor in the game. You want the best each team can put out on the field.”

If you don't want to play in crummy weather, then fine. But both teams play in the exact same weather for any given game and as such are affected equally. And again, it doesn't seem to bother them the rest of the season or one week previous in the quarterfinals, why would it matter a week later??

 

[MaxyJR1]

Prep Bowl used to be one day on Friday and did not interfere with Gophers and Vikings. When Gophers went to TCF, Prep Bowl went to two days. Playing at TCF would require the Gophers to be on the road prep bowl weekend and the Gophers schedule is already set for those years affecting when the prep bowl can be played.

When you get to the Championships you want the best conditions for everyone including teams, fans, and volunteers. It said that it is required by TV to have all games at one site. Bowl Games and Super Bowls until New York was added were all played in nice weather climates or inside. MN is not odd is this philosophy. The Prep Bowl involves a lot of volunteer staff to pull off and I don't think they want to be outside for 16 hour days.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Prep Bowl used to be one day on Friday and did not interfere with Gophers and Vikings. When Gophers went to TCF, Prep Bowl went to two days. Playing at TCF would require the Gophers to be on the road prep bowl weekend and the Gophers schedule is already set for those years affecting when the prep bowl can be played.

When you get to the Championships you want the best conditions for everyone including teams, fans, and volunteers. It said that it is required by TV to have all games at one site. Bowl Games and Super Bowls until New York was added were all played in nice weather climates or inside. MN is not odd is this philosophy. The Prep Bowl involves a lot of volunteer staff to pull off and I don't think they want to be outside for 16 hour days.

My point still stands - they had no problem scheduling before the Gophers moved to TCF, why would it be any different now. One day Prep Bowl on Friday at TCF is no different than before. Is there anything stopping them from playing Thursday night and Friday night games instead of Fri/Saturday? Howbout Fri/Sunday? Complaining just to complain.

I referenced the quote where the coach was specifically talking about best conditions for the teams. And again, why is it that we're ok with outdoor football a week earlier for the fans, volunteers, and teams but not for the championship? Don't every single one of these people play outdoor games the entirety of the season? Won't the field conditions be perfect on a field-turf surface with heating coils underneath? Won't the volunteers for concessions be in heated booths? Volunteers on the field don't have jackets and won't be standing on the same heated surface? It's just a weak argument on both the logistics and "experience" side since people play/watch outdoor football all the time in this weather.

Bowl Games start a full month later. The Super Bowl is even later, traditionally late January now early February - the coldest time of the year, and we're talking by a full 15 degree average difference. And yet, playoff games at Green Bay, New York, etc still have packed houses. If people truly care about the game, they'll come whether it's outdoors or indoors. It's not like the Dome has been so perfect that casual fans from around the state literally pack the place for each game simply because it's a comfortable environment. Look at the attendance figures and you'll see it isn't the case.

 

[GophersInIowa]

And again, why is it that we're ok with outdoor football a week earlier for the fans, volunteers, and teams but not for the championship?

Because it's impossible to play that many games inside. Logistically it doesn't work.

And yet, playoff games at Green Bay, New York, etc still have packed houses. If people truly care about the game, they'll come whether it's outdoors or indoors. It's not like the Dome has been so perfect that casual fans from around the state literally pack the place for each game simply because it's a comfortable environment. Look at the attendance figures and you'll see it isn't the case.

Again, I love outdoor football. I loved playing in the cold, sleet, and snow. But from a business standpoint, it doesn't make sense. Even if there are only a few hundred casual fans (I think there are more) that attend the Prep Bowl now, why would you move it to another venue where you risk losing that revenue?

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Because it's impossible to play that many games inside. Logistically it doesn't work.

How did it work prior to the Gopher's move to TCF literally 3 years ago? Has the MSHSL added more classes? No. Since 1998 there has been Class A - Class AAAAA plus 9-Man. 6 games to be played. They did it for 11 years straight, how could they not handle it now?

Again, I love outdoor football. I loved playing in the cold, sleet, and snow. But from a business standpoint, it doesn't make sense. Even if there are only a few hundred casual fans (I think there are more) that attend the Prep Bowl now, why would you move it to another venue where you risk losing that revenue?

I'm sorry, is the MSHSL a business?

And, can we can the talk of lost revenue or attendance due to outdoor games until we have definitive proof of this actually happening? Gopher attendance went up in the dome when it opened then tanked for a long time until the team became somewhat relevant. Core fan and casual fan attendance has not been affected by TCF being outdoors - the team's dismal performance has been the major cause of continued decline. When there are 2 years of Prep Bowl attendance figures to go off and we can normalize against recent Dome years from a standpoint of teams playing in the championship game (size of city and distance to Mpls) we can have the conversation.

 

[Tim Riggins]

My point still stands - they had no problem scheduling before the Gophers moved to TCF, why would it be any different now. One day Prep Bowl on Friday at TCF is no different than before. Is there anything stopping them from playing Thursday night and Friday night games instead of Fri/Saturday? Howbout Fri/Sunday? Complaining just to complain.

I referenced the quote where the coach was specifically talking about best conditions for the teams. And again, why is it that we're ok with outdoor football a week earlier for the fans, volunteers, and teams but not for the championship? Don't every single one of these people play outdoor games the entirety of the season? Won't the field conditions be perfect on a field-turf surface with heating coils underneath? Won't the volunteers for concessions be in heated booths? Volunteers on the field don't have jackets and won't be standing on the same heated surface? It's just a weak argument on both the logistics and "experience" side since people play/watch outdoor football all the time in this weather.

Bowl Games start a full month later. The Super Bowl is even later, traditionally late January now early February - the coldest time of the year, and we're talking by a full 15 degree average difference. And yet, playoff games at Green Bay, New York, etc still have packed houses. If people truly care about the game, they'll come whether it's outdoors or indoors. It's not like the Dome has been so perfect that casual fans from around the state literally pack the place for each game simply because it's a comfortable environment. Look at the attendance figures and you'll see it isn't the case.

Not sure they want to play the state championship game on Thanksgiving night.

 

[theTurning]

If people truly care about the game, they'll come whether it's outdoors or indoors. It's not like the Dome has been so perfect that casual fans from around the state literally pack the place for each game simply because it's a comfortable environment. Look at the attendance figures and you'll see it isn't the case.

Because all things being equal, it's preferred to play those games indoors. It's not that difficult.

 

[GopherRock]

How did it work prior to the Gopher's move to TCF literally 3 years ago? Has the MSHSL added more classes? No. Since 1998 there has been Class A - Class AAAAA plus 9-Man. 6 games to be played. They did it for 11 years straight, how could they not handle it now?

Six games in one day looks all well and good on paper, but the reason the League went to two days in the Dump for the Prep Bowl is NOT because the Gophers left. It was because the membership was sick of starting the 5A title game at 10:30 PM. With 7 classes now, there's no way to do it in less than two days.

And the League is a member organization.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Not sure they want to play the state championship game on Thanksgiving night.

I've already detailed earlier how it could be done. Move the season up a week (as Wisconsin does). Oh, wait, heavens no, the 3 county fairs in the state that conflict with that Friday would then be in jeopardy!!!!

Scheduling conflicts with the Gophers could be easily overcome in a couple ways. First, every other year (on average) a given weekend will be played away for the Gophers. Easy, solved. Every other year the games could easily be scheduled WITH the UofM - 11 AM or 2:30 games are mandated by the Big Ten. Make a "MN Football Day" (or weekend) out of it where the U plays an 11 AM last home showdown and then the final 3 prep bowls are played at 3 PM, 6:30 PM and 9 PM. Heated coils removes the evening worry, and you have a great chance to capture college fans staying for a prep bowl game or the U to attract some fans to the game prior to the HS championships (if we're talking revenue this is an obvious positive over the Dome site selection). All I see here is negativity about scheduling conflicts (without acknowledging the conflicts of other downtown/dome events that the MSHSL runs in to).

Because all things being equal, it's preferred to play those games indoors. It's not that difficult.

Says who? I prefer watching outdoor football, even if it's cold. If all things were considered equal, why didn't the U strike a deal with the Vikings to build an indoor stadium together again. This time where they got better terms on suite sales, concessions, parking, etc? How many people on this board have stated they preferred playing in the cold for late fall games?

Six games in one day looks all well and good on paper, but the reason the League went to two days in the Dump for the Prep Bowl is NOT because the Gophers left. It was because the membership was sick of starting the 5A title game at 10:30 PM. With 7 classes now, there's no way to do it in less than two days.

And the League is a member organization.

I stand corrected, I didn't see that there was a 6A now in addition to 9-Man. I agree it is difficult fitting all the games in one day, but wouldn't this have maximized total attendance in the scenario of people coming to watch as many as possible in one day? Doubt you'd get fans coming 2 days in a row. Obviously now that's a requirement.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Fitting games into one day was difficult enough with five and six games and became even harder when teams started passing more. Clock is stopped more and games are longer. Games used to get done in two hours and now they run 2:30.

Moving the season up is an answer and I think over time people would get used to it. Coaches don't like it because they and the players lose another week of summer. Coaches would probably demand more $ for this and that has to be taken into account. Luckily we are getting another dome and we only have to deal with this for two years.

 

[MaxyJR1]

If you want to check out 2014 Gopher offer Andrew Stelter, #78 for Owatonna plays St. Thomas Academy at 2pm today. www.prep45.com

 

[TCF=UnitedWeStand]

I haven't read through this entire thread, so I apologize if this has already been brought up, but I went to the Hutch vs. Becker game last night and it got me to thinking - I do love the high school bands, but one of the great things I like about Gopher games now at TCF is I think the music played during stoppages has gotten much better over the course of the year (although I don't know what happened to it the first half of the MI game - something was jacked up), and the collection played prior to the 4th quarter is very solid (based upon student section and stadium response/participation).

Thus, I think that type of environment, if the games were ever held at TCF, could really help facilitate a draw to potential Gopher fans on what the gameday experience is/could be.

I don't know. Sitting at the dome last night just got me thinking, "Wow, the Dome is so lazy in how they put this event on".

 

[westcoastgopher11]

Give the kicker from STA a schollie. Perfect on the year for FGs and PATs? He just booted a 41 yarder that looked like it would've been good from 51.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

It;s a good thing this tournament is in the Dome... SO many clearly casual fans in attendance for the biggest game (6A) between 2 teams from large cities within 25 miles of the dome.

 

[supadupafly]

It;s a good thing this tournament is in the Dome... SO many clearly casual fans in attendance for the biggest game (6A) between 2 teams from large cities within 25 miles of the dome.

ha! no kidding! where are all of these casual fans who supposedly fill up and attend the prep bowl all day long? and are the reason some say that we MUST continue to hold the prep bowl indoors until the end of time. please! not even close.

one can see that 95% of the people in attendance are either from eden prairie or lakeville. and as railbaronyarr said.....this is for two teams within 20 miles of downtown minneapolis.

contrary to what the bureaucratic tools at the MSHSL office think, there is absolutely no reason why the minnesota football season and prep bowl should not be be played a week earlier than it is now. should not be playing the prep bowl on friday of thanksgiving weekend anyways. and there is no reason why it should not be held outdoors on the U of M campus like football is meant to be played.

 

[GophersInIowa]

ha! no kidding! where are all of these casual fans who supposedly fill up and attend the prep bowl all day long? and are the reason some say that we MUST continue to hold the prep bowl indoors until the end of time. please! not even close.

one can see that 95% of the people in attendance are either from eden prairie or lakeville. and as railbaronyarr said.....this is for two teams within 20 miles of downtown minneapolis.

contrary to what the bureaucratic tools at the MSHSL office think, there is absolutely no reason why the minnesota football season and state tournament should not be be played a week earlier than it is now. and there is no reason why it should not be held outdoors on the U of M campus like football is meant to be played.

As I stated before, this has obviously changed from 10-20 years ago. I can guarantee there were more than 5% casual fans at games in the past.

 

[supadupafly]

ugghh. dave lee calling the game. at least darrell thompson is there to offer some levity to dave lee's absurdness. and i just heard dave lee say another "hooty dooty" play by eden prairie. wow! can't understand why he was not beloved by gopher football fans everywhere with amazing play-by-play calls like that one. me shaking me head. go call another st. thomas D3 game with your buddy eric nelson.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

As I stated before, this has obviously changed from 10-20 years ago. I can guarantee there were more than 5% casual fans at games in the past.

Maybe you're right. I can only speak from experience since I was in HS and graduated in 2003. Went to the tournament and have watched it on TV every year since. Never see more than 10k people there (that would be a stretch) and definitely 90-95% clearly fans of the teams playing. The casual fans there seem to be the ones smattered out in the open sections, and my guess is they are the people waiting for the next game to start or were there for the previous. To me means being outdoors wouldn't turn away these people as ticket buyers since they're not truly "casual football fans" out to see some quality HS football action.

 

[supadupafly]

Maybe you're right. I can only speak from experience since I was in HS and graduated in 2003. Went to the tournament and have watched it on TV every year since. Never see more than 10k people there (that would be a stretch) and definitely 90-95% clearly fans of the teams playing. The casual fans there seem to be the ones smattered out in the open sections, and my guess is they are the people waiting for the next game to start or were there for the previous. To me means being outdoors wouldn't turn away these people as ticket buyers since they're not truly "casual football fans" out to see some quality HS football action.

boom. infallible logic here. send it over to the knobs in the MSHSL office.