STATE FOOTBALL HEADED TO THE METRODOME

[1983]

I don't care where they play the games. Why can't the games be in HD? Lets do that then worry about where they are played. By the way the high school league will never play these games outside except for the dome transition.

 

[lakesgopher]

Thanks for backing up my statements. I don't claim to be 100% right all the time (ahem, Dpodoll ) but it's nice to have someone confirm my gut based on experience.

I just personally think that TCF is a more than adequate venue in a much more than adequate neighborhood. Why would anyone on here not be in favor of adding 2 weekends of football to campus bringing in people from all over the state to utilize a gorgeous stadium. Opportunity for: recruiting, building walk-on base, building a fan base, getting people comfortable with our campus and using the stadium, support the local bars and restaurants in Dinkytown/SV, and more. The Dome and future Zygi World doesn't need this exposure the way the U does.

It had nothing to do with exposure. Don't say exposure any more in regards to a big ten school

 

[Rosemountian]

Interesting that 2 conferences all got big school tourney teams.

High school football is way down right now in minnesota. This Rosemount team that is in the state tourney may have gotten last in their conference in 2007

 

[short ornery norwegian]

In my experience, as someone who has attended Prep Bowls and State Basketball tournaments, the vast majority of fans are there to attend a specific game.

Back in the day (70's), I think there were more "casual" fans who attended State Basketball games for fun, and to see the top teams in the State. Now, I think the casual fans stay home and watch the games on TV.

As far as Football, there may be a few die-hards, amateur scouts and so forth who will sit through 3 or 4 HS football games in a day, but in my experience, a very high % of fans leave after each game, or at the least, might watch 2 games if a team from their area is involved.

Getting back to the point of the thread, I think you would have even fewer "casual" fans if the games were outdoors. Nothing against TCF Bank as a facility, but unless the weather was ideal, I just don't see a lot of people, other than fans of the specific teams, attending Prep Bowl or State Semi-Final games at TCF.

And - let's not forget - the agreement for the new Vikings Stadium specifically states that the Stadium must be made available for a certain # of days a year for HS events - i.e. state FB and Soccer playoffs. I think it's a moot point - other than the years the Dome is being torn down, the Prep Bowl will be indoors.

 

[ski-u-mah]

TCF would be cool and us and the kids could deal with it just fine. That said, as a guy that's been to every EP game this year, I am excited to play at the dome this weekend and be warm. The kids are pumped too.

I am generally not a wuss. I was outside Friday night watching football and all day on Saturday. Tailgate set up started about 7:30 a.m.

 

[Buck_Buchanan]

First year new Vikings stadium is available, it will host Prep Bowl. I am also guessing that day will set an all-time attendance record there as well.
because it will give people a more affordable option to see the bells and whistles of a new stadium they may or may not be able to afford to see otherwise.

I would encourage many of you to look at the MSHSL publications portion of their website. Go under Yearbook and look at historical trends of football attendance. In 1981, the last year of outdoor finals, total attendance was 74,155 for 5 classes (all games). Those attendance figures were similar to some of the years' totals prior to the format change in 1990.

A few trends can be noticed on how attendance figures have continued to rise. Most notably the addition of classes and changes in the format of the tournament itself. You will also notice that single day, record attendance for the Prep Bowl (finals) continues to be the very 1st year -1982 (37,000).

Buck

 

[MaxyJR1]

I don't buy the money argument - not enough gap between outdoor/indoor attendance in quarter-finals and not enough total attendance to tell me there's a significant chunk of money to be LOST even if that did occur.

You forget to take TV revenue and the fact that the games are accessible online and on TV for semis and finals. Attendance goes up with fewer games while adding TV and streaming. Going outside would hurt bottom line. I don't know by how much. Like others have stated, it is not going to happen as long as there is a domed stadium. Why does Missouri and Michigan play championsip games in domed stadium? Same reasons Minnesota does.

It will be interesting to see how the 6A games draw at the dome this week for quarter finals.

 

[HopherGole]

As a fan I wouldn't want the state football tourney played outdoors. I like taking a day off to hang out and catch a few games in a comfortable environment. I'd hate to sit outside for 6 hours...plus if the game is held a snowy/cold day. It's just one run game vs. the other's run game. I wanna see coaches open up the playbook

 

[GophersInIowa]

boom! you stated it all perfectly. the guys arguing for it to be indoors as if a large number of people go to the prep bowl as an all day event are not getting it and i think are off-base in their assumptions. shoot, i would suggest that far fewer people even go to multiple sessions of the state hockey tournament as they used to. would venture these days that 90+ % of the people at either the prep bowl or state hockey tournament are there to watch one game. and are specifically there to watch someone they know or the team from their town.

That very well may be the case now. Like I said, it's been awhile since I attended the Prep Bowl. I think 2001 was my last one. I seem to remember there being a lot more than 10% being casual, but my memory isn't very good so who knows.

Even if the money lost would be small, it still would be lost money, and unfortunately, that's a big deal for the MSHSL. I think it would be awesome to have state at TCF, maybe a week earlier than they have it now. I just don't see it happening long term.

 

[supadupafly]

Your numbers lack any depth of real statistical meaning. For the Semis, what was the comparison of attendance for the indoor games vs outdoor games (taking in to account distance traveled for the teams involved and size of their schools/towns). Also keep in mind capacity at many of the venues at the Semis played at home field for the smaller stadiums means an obvious disadvantage to total attendance compared to playing in the Metrodome.

In any case, what little analysis you did actually proves that attendance goes up regardless of venue because of the importance of the game. ~4,500 per game for the Prep Bowls in the Dome, 3,000 per game for the Semi-finals in the SAME venue.

However, since the only portion of the data that has both open air and indoor games for the same "level of action," I present for your viewing pleasure, the outdoor game attendances taking in to account several factors:

Indoor Games
5 Games
Average Attendance per game: 1,567
Standard deviation of games: 361 (one could reasonably assume that 81.5% of indoor games would have an attendance between 1,206 and 2,289)
Average distance driven from hometown to stadium: 59.97 miles (std dev of 35.2 miles). Without DeLaSalle HS playing at the Dome, these numbers are 66.4 miles average with std dev of 30.4 miles.

Outdoor
19 Games
Average Attendance per game: 1,324
Standard deviation of games: 583 (one could reasonably assume that 81.5% of indoor games would have an attendance between 740 and 2,489)
Average distance driven from hometown to stadium: 77.59 miles (std dev of 65.6 miles). Without CDHHS playing at the Griffin Stadium in St Paul, these numbers are 79.6 miles average with std dev of 65.3 miles.

I did not want to look up population of these schools/towns in relation to their gameday attendance. I think it's clear that a slight drop in average attendance for the outdoor games also came with a much wider variance (some were extremely well attended), but these schools and fans also had to drive nearly 20 miles further on average for the game (with some driving MUCH farther as noted by the wide std dev).

This data would not conclude that indoor vs outdoor venues had any real effect on the attendance of state high school football games.

Should I also conduct a study showing number of quality restaurants and bars near TCF vs the Dome, access to cheap, close, surface parking, or any other measure to show the value of TCF over the Dome for a mid-late November football game?

BOX!

 

[lakesgopher]

Your numbers lack any depth of real statistical meaning. For the Semis, what was the comparison of attendance for the indoor games vs outdoor games (taking in to account distance traveled for the teams involved and size of their schools/towns). Also keep in mind capacity at many of the venues at the Semis played at home field for the smaller stadiums means an obvious disadvantage to total attendance compared to playing in the Metrodome.

In any case, what little analysis you did actually proves that attendance goes up regardless of venue because of the importance of the game. ~4,500 per game for the Prep Bowls in the Dome, 3,000 per game for the Semi-finals in the SAME venue.

However, since the only portion of the data that has both open air and indoor games for the same "level of action," I present for your viewing pleasure, the outdoor game attendances taking in to account several factors:

Indoor Games
5 Games
Average Attendance per game: 1,567
Standard deviation of games: 361 (one could reasonably assume that 81.5% of indoor games would have an attendance between 1,206 and 2,289)
Average distance driven from hometown to stadium: 59.97 miles (std dev of 35.2 miles). Without DeLaSalle HS playing at the Dome, these numbers are 66.4 miles average with std dev of 30.4 miles.

Outdoor
19 Games
Average Attendance per game: 1,324
Standard deviation of games: 583 (one could reasonably assume that 81.5% of indoor games would have an attendance between 740 and 2,489)
Average distance driven from hometown to stadium: 77.59 miles (std dev of 65.6 miles). Without CDHHS playing at the Griffin Stadium in St Paul, these numbers are 79.6 miles average with std dev of 65.3 miles.

I did not want to look up population of these schools/towns in relation to their gameday attendance. I think it's clear that a slight drop in average attendance for the outdoor games also came with a much wider variance (some were extremely well attended), but these schools and fans also had to drive nearly 20 miles further on average for the game (with some driving MUCH farther as noted by the wide std dev).

This data would not conclude that indoor vs outdoor venues had any real effect on the attendance of state high school football games.

Should I also conduct a study showing number of quality restaurants and bars near TCF vs the Dome, access to cheap, close, surface parking, or any other measure to show the value of TCF over the Dome for a mid-late November football game?

I think the fact you have shown such an increase in attendance per game at the dome from semis to championship could prove there is a large number of people(rubes) who show up and watch championship day while hometown fans are the norm for semis. Last year was the first time I had gone to both the semis and the championship day and that was only because my cousin played for bemidji. A few friends and I enjoy championship games more than the semis. I guess you have some good data but I still think the dome is and will continue to be a better venue for state football. I simply won't freeze my ass off for high school ball the way I would to cheer on the gophers

 

[RailBaronYarr]

I think the fact you have shown such an increase in attendance per game at the dome from semis to championship could prove there is a large number of people(rubes) who show up and watch championship day while hometown fans are the norm for semis. Last year was the first time I had gone to both the semis and the championship day and that was only because my cousin played for bemidji. A few friends and I enjoy championship games more than the semis. I guess you have some good data but I still think the dome is and will continue to be a better venue for state football. I simply won't freeze my ass off for high school ball the way I would to cheer on the gophers

I guess if that's the argument, that the DOME is a better venue for (high school) football, why in the hell did we build an outdoor football stadium for college? We've proven that there are MAYBE 30,000 diehard Gopher fans between students and STHs. If we wanted to attract Joe Minnesota Football Fan for games played between September and the Saturday after Thanksgiving (yes, late November), why would the U and its fans/supporters have thought an outdoor stadium was ideal? If regular old fans such as yourself (minus diehard Gopher fan standing) won't attend the State Prep Bowl outside, why would they come to Gopher football games?

To the point of larger number of rubes.. I guess there's no way to prove it without polling the fans at this year's Prep Bowl My feeling is that more fans of a team show up for bigger games (particularly the championship) rather than the game simply attracting rubes. This could be tested if we had a good sampling of data with strong team followings making the Prep Bowl or not (like Cretin-Durham or Eden Prairie) but I'm too lazy. My guess is that of the people in attendance at each of the Prep Bowl games not tied to a particular school, the VAST majority are those that are already there for an earlier or later game and are purely interested. People like you who attend just for fun are very few and far between.

 

[lakesgopher]

I guess if that's the argument, that the DOME is a better venue for (high school) football, why in the hell did we build an outdoor football stadium for college? We've proven that there are MAYBE 30,000 diehard Gopher fans between students and STHs. If we wanted to attract Joe Minnesota Football Fan for games played between September and the Saturday after Thanksgiving (yes, late November), why would the U and its fans/supporters have thought an outdoor stadium was ideal? If regular old fans such as yourself (minus diehard Gopher fan standing) won't attend the State Prep Bowl outside, why would they come to Gopher football games?

To the point of larger number of rubes.. I guess there's no way to prove it without polling the fans at this year's Prep Bowl My feeling is that more fans of a team show up for bigger games (particularly the championship) rather than the game simply attracting rubes. This could be tested if we had a good sampling of data with strong team followings making the Prep Bowl or not (like Cretin-Durham or Eden Prairie) but I'm too lazy. My guess is that of the people in attendance at each of the Prep Bowl games not tied to a particular school, the VAST majority are those that are already there for an earlier or later game and are purely interested. People like you who attend just for fun are very few and far between.

I said its a better venue for "state football" you can put a spin on whatever you want I just disagree that tcf would be better than the dome for state football

 

[MaxyJR1]

why in the hell did we build an outdoor football stadium for college?

Because it was cheaper than putting roof on it and people felt an on campus stadium was needed to compete. It has already been proven that winning puts students and fans in the stands, not an on campus stadium.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Have not read all the posts but this one seems pretty simple to me. As long as the Dome is standing they are going to play there. Parking is easier, you have the light rail as an option, for the fans that do want to go to multiple sessions weather is not an issue. By taking the potential for any kind of bad weather out of play you eliminate one huge logistical hurdle. As cool as it would be to see the games played at TCF I can totally understand why the MSHL would want to play at the Dome now and for as many years as possible.

 

[lakesgopher]

If regular old fans such as yourself (minus diehard Gopher fan standing) won't attend the State Prep Bowl outside, why would they come to Gopher football games?
Forgot to post this earlier---gopher games in cold weather take about 3 hours, prep bowl is an all day event. Not sure what connection you're trying to make?

 

[mnsports1]

Maybe it's changed in recent years, but when I lived in MN there were always a bunch of people attending the Prep Bowl and Basketball tourney who weren't fans of any of the teams. A group of us went to both every year between my junior year in high school to my senior year in college.
I was just trying to show how quickly the temps drop. I felt like you were making it sound like the temp wouldn't be that much different in late November.

As for your numbers in your other post, I apologize, but I'm not really understanding them. Aren't all semifinal games played in the dome as well?

I know of many who did this exact thing. The years we weren't in it many of us on our team went anyway. You could tell many other kids did too by all the different letter jackets around.

 

[mnsports1]

I guess if that's the argument, that the DOME is a better venue for (high school) football, why in the hell did we build an outdoor football stadium for college? We've proven that there are MAYBE 30,000 diehard Gopher fans between students and STHs. If we wanted to attract Joe Minnesota Football Fan for games played between September and the Saturday after Thanksgiving (yes, late November), why would the U and its fans/supporters have thought an outdoor stadium was ideal? If regular old fans such as yourself (minus diehard Gopher fan standing) won't attend the State Prep Bowl outside, why would they come to Gopher football games?

To the point of larger number of rubes.. I guess there's no way to prove it without polling the fans at this year's Prep Bowl My feeling is that more fans of a team show up for bigger games (particularly the championship) rather than the game simply attracting rubes. This could be tested if we had a good sampling of data with strong team followings making the Prep Bowl or not (like Cretin-Durham or Eden Prairie) but I'm too lazy. My guess is that of the people in attendance at each of the Prep Bowl games not tied to a particular school, the VAST majority are those that are already there for an earlier or later game and are purely interested. People like you who attend just for fun are very few and far between.

I can't prove it, but I disagree.

 

[Haugy#33]

Wisconsin plays their football state championships at Camp Randall (sure, they don't have a dome in the state so basically apples to oranges). But it might add a slight recruiting edge for the Badgers when it comes to in-state recruits. Many kids that end up playing in Camp Randall for State have childhood dreams of playing there, whether it is for HS football, or as a Badger. TCF was built with the purpose of being Minnesota's Football Stadium. Why not have State football played on the State's football field.

It would also be easy for Kill or any on his staff to pop by during the games and check out some possible recruits, schedule permitting of course.

I could not agree more!!!! For example, I have two sons who swim for a varsity swim team and the U holds various swim meets, the True Team State, The State Meet, and various club swim meets. The high school kids LOVE coming to the U and seeing the state of the art facilities. They mention how much fun it would be to swim at a highly respected school. I think Kill would love to have that opportunity to see kids right in his backyard!!!!

 

[lakesgopher]

I could not agree more!!!! For example, I have two sons who swim for a varsity swim team and the U holds various swim meets, the True Team State, The State Meet, and various club swim meets. The high school kids LOVE coming to the U and seeing the state of the art facilities. They mention how much fun it would be to swim at a highly respected school. I think Kill would love to have that opportunity to see kids right in his backyard!!!!

I think a lot if you think the kids in the state of Minnesota look at the U like we do. They don't at all. From breckenridge to moorhead to east grand forks to bemidji to Duluth etc etc etc don't think about the U hardly at all. In fact those areas are big in hockey country and they dislike the U because of their local allegiances to the d1 hockey schools. The U is considered the big school in the big city, and gopher hockey is An equal to yankee baseball. That's why I get annoyed up north because I look at Minnesota as the only state school. The majority of kids would rather play inside where Percy and A.P. play, not a bunch of gopher players they don't follow. Kids get more excited to play at Target Center because the pros play there and it's not even close. It's ok to love the U, I do, and I try to pass my passion on to the kids I see everyday. kids just don't care statewide. The U needs to do things different to draw the state together, because right now the U doesn't at all! And I think it hurts our programs.

 

[4four4]

Since, the dome is coming down in a few years I would guess the highschool championship games likely to be played at TCF Bank.

 

[4four4]

I think a lot if you think the kids in the state of Minnesota look at the U like we do. They don't at all. From breckenridge to moorhead to east grand forks to bemidji to Duluth etc etc etc don't think about the U hardly at all.

Huh? ARe you sure about that, the University of Minnesota is the biggest school in the state.

 

[lakesgopher]

Huh? ARe you sure about that, the University of Minnesota is the biggest school in the state.

I forgot only Minnesotans go there

 

[RailBaronYarr]

I think a lot if you think the kids in the state of Minnesota look at the U like we do. They don't at all. From breckenridge to moorhead to east grand forks to bemidji to Duluth etc etc etc don't think about the U hardly at all. In fact those areas are big in hockey country and they dislike the U because of their local allegiances to the d1 hockey schools. The U is considered the big school in the big city, and gopher hockey is An equal to yankee baseball. That's why I get annoyed up north because I look at Minnesota as the only state school. The majority of kids would rather play inside where Percy and A.P. play, not a bunch of gopher players they don't follow. Kids get more excited to play at Target Center because the pros play there and it's not even close. It's ok to love the U, I do, and I try to pass my passion on to the kids I see everyday. kids just don't care statewide. The U needs to do things different to draw the state together, because right now the U doesn't at all! And I think it hurts our programs.

This is because the U has not done a good job of marketing itself in many ways, and not being THE location for HS tournaments is just one example. This is an opportunity for the University as much as it is for the MSHSL to partner with a state university rather than a corporation that runs a pro franchise.

I know of many who did this exact thing. The years we weren't in it many of us on our team went anyway. You could tell many other kids did too by all the different letter jackets around.

If this were the case attendance for the games would be MUCH higher than it is. I have been to more than my fair share of HS state tournaments for hockey, volleyball, basketball, and football while in HS band, as well as watched many prep bowl games on TV. 90+% of fans (easily) are people from one of the 2 schools playing, and the majority of the rest are people there for the game directly before or after.

Have not read all the posts but this one seems pretty simple to me. As long as the Dome is standing they are going to play there. Parking is easier, you have the light rail as an option, for the fans that do want to go to multiple sessions weather is not an issue. By taking the potential for any kind of bad weather out of play you eliminate one huge logistical hurdle. As cool as it would be to see the games played at TCF I can totally understand why the MSHL would want to play at the Dome now and for as many years as possible.

Parking is easier? The U handles thousands of students, professors, and workers every day in addition to having capacity for up to 50,000 attendees on campus for football, basketball, and hockey games on a regular basis. There is no issue with parking. The Central Corridor LRT will be complete in 2014 so that is a non-issue comparison (from the Target Field stop it will literally be 3 more stops to TCF compared to the DOME, and closer/easier for StP residents than the Dome). How is weather a logistical hurdle? I fail to see how weather, something that affects regular season and quarterfinal playoff games for HS, in addition to MANY college and pro football teams, is a logistical hurdle to overcome for a series of football games. The field will have heat coils to ward off any potential snow, and the field is artificial turf making for a consistent playing surface. Again, using the worry of people who attend the whole day of games not coming anymore as an issue is honestly grasping at straws. People spend hours tailgating outside before a game before entering an outdoor stadium for college and pro football games all the time.

We should reboot this conversation when the games are forced to be played at TCF when the Dome is inoperable for 1-2 years.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Parking is easier? The U handles thousands of students, professors, and workers every day in addition to having capacity for up to 50,000 attendees on campus for football, basketball, and hockey games on a regular basis. There is no issue with parking. The Central Corridor LRT will be complete in 2014 so that is a non-issue comparison (from the Target Field stop it will literally be 3 more stops to TCF compared to the DOME, and closer/easier for StP residents than the Dome). How is weather a logistical hurdle? I fail to see how weather, something that affects regular season and quarterfinal playoff games for HS, in addition to MANY college and pro football teams, is a logistical hurdle to overcome for a series of football games. The field will have heat coils to ward off any potential snow, and the field is artificial turf making for a consistent playing surface. Again, using the worry of people who attend the whole day of games not coming anymore as an issue is honestly grasping at straws. People spend hours tailgating outside before a game before entering an outdoor stadium for college and pro football games all the time.

Before I reply I want to preface this first by saying I really could care less where they play the state tournament games.

In regards to parking, the U can physically accomodate the cars however moving large numbers of people on and off campus at the same time leads to headaches. Downtown is more equiped to deal with volume issues between sessions. Seems like the dome has the upper hand on the light rail issue for the next couple of years. In terms of weather it is a different crowd that goes to high school games vs. college and pro games. That being said from the high school league perespective why wouldn't you want to play indoors where you can control the climate as opposed to risking getting caught in bad conditions? When the dome gets torn down they will have to move the games to TCF but I see no motivation for them to move the games until they absolutely have to. This is not about the U it is about the MSHL an organization that could care less about what is best for the U of M football program and their recruiting.

When the games have to move to TCF they will move and the fans will adjust. But there is no reason for the MSHL to change ahead of time.

 

[FireDaveLee]

What about trying to have a few of the playoff games at TCF, but the ultimate prep bowl would be at the new Vikings stadium? It seems to work having the Section 2 & 6 finals at Maruicci, but then the state tournament is at Xcel.

We all like TCF, but the fact is when the new Vikings stadium gets built, it will be more state of the art, more of a "wow" factor & will be indoors, which is a good thing on Thanksgiving weekend. I'd think trying to get the quarterfinals & semifinals though would be a good thing....

 

[MaxyJR1]

What about trying to have a few of the playoff games at TCF, but the ultimate prep bowl would be at the new Vikings stadium? It seems to work having the Section 2 & 6 finals at Maruicci, but then the state tournament is at Xcel.

We all like TCF, but the fact is when the new Vikings stadium gets built, it will be more state of the art, more of a "wow" factor & will be indoors, which is a good thing on Thanksgiving weekend. I'd think trying to get the quarterfinals & semifinals though would be a good thing....

I agree that the 6A quarter finals should be at TCF this Thursday and Friday rather than the dome. There are ways to incorporate TCFBANK Stadium into the mix. Gophers are on the road this weekend and there could be at least 8 games played on campus this weekend.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

In regards to parking, the U can physically accomodate the cars however moving large numbers of people on and off campus at the same time leads to headaches.

And downtown is honestly any different?

Downtown is more equiped to deal with volume issues between sessions.

I thought everyone stayed at the games between sessions!? This is precisely the reason that both sites are the same from a traffic perspective. People come and go to the different events throughout the day (as they already do), eat at one of the MANY restaurants/bars close to the stadium in DT/SV, and either go back to another game or head home.

Seems like the dome has the upper hand on the light rail issue for the next couple of years.

1 year. The LRT will be complete in 2013, with passenger service starting in 2014. The 2012 Prep Bowl is already being played at the Dome. I was never advocating to switch before the Dome becomes inoperable. Keep in mind that

In terms of weather it is a different crowd that goes to high school games vs. college and pro games.

More high school kids and college kids attend regular season football games outside than inside than pro football in Minnesota. This should make for a natural transition.

That being said from the high school league perespective why wouldn't you want to play indoors where you can control the climate as opposed to risking getting caught in bad conditions?

For the same reason the U wanted to play outdoor football. All weather is football weather, fans have proven time and again that for big games or events (late season college games, outdoor hockey, NHL hockey classics played outdoors, etc) that weather is not an issue for attendance. I will give another reason. Cost. The U could extend the offer to do this for free (as it is a marketing/advertising/fan building experience for themselves), splitting concessions and parking revenue with MSHSL, which is what I'd do.

This is not about the U it is about the MSHL an organization that could care less about what is best for the U of M football program and their recruiting.

The MSHSL absolutely would benefit from a strong collegiate, D1-level football program for the same reason that high school hockey in this state is strong in part as a result of strong hockey teams at the U of M and UND. A better relationship between the MSHSL and the U makes for a stronger commitment from athletes to the sport of football, fans being involved, and money for ticket sales at events like this. I guarantee you that football participation in states where the D1 program is big (think Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc) is better than states where there is a lack of or or under-performing D1-school. Therefore, the MSHSL has more incentive to partner with a flagship D1 football program than a sports commission/pro sports team combination. Beyond that, this is an opportunity to embrace our state's weather as a defining characteristic for football the same way we do for Hockey Day with outdoor hockey. Football is meant to be played outdoors (one of the major marketing campaigns surrounding the building of TCF). If the Prep Bowl was in middle January, I might be siding with you.

 

[lakesgopher]

I still don't agree tcf will be a better venue for state football then the dome. however you make some good arguments. Agree to disagree, I'm not going to sit in the plastic seats outside for high school football when its cold. I would for the gophers just not for 10 hrs of prep bowl. I guess I would be in the minority thinking I would prefer to be in climate controlled dome at the end of November watching the prep bowl. Hopefully when it goes to tcf you actually go to it

 

[FireDaveLee]

Is it something that U has even offered? I thought I heard that the basketball tournament is at Target Center because the U asks for a pretty ridiculous fee from the MSHSL when it comes to the tournament.