Star WR at Washington St alleges "abuse" from Leach, coaching staff

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MaxyJR1 said:
I don't hear former and current Gophers complaining about the mindset changes and how Kill and staff go about it. Leach has character issues and will be out of a job again.
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Forgot about JewJew already, eh?
 

GophersInIowa said:
Drama seems to find him, that's all I meant. You don't hear a whole of this happening at other programs. Now you've heard something like this several times with Leach as the coach.
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There was one other time.. and it was Craig Jame's kid. You don't think this star WR at WSU is ignorant to Leach's history and is now embellishing the facts a bit? It's certainly possible and something to consider when factoring in one's opinion.

Again, let this play out some more. There have been a plethora of former TTech players who have backed Leach up. Far more than those who have dogged him. I tend to listen to the masses in these cases.
 

MNGoldenGophers1 said:
I'd add: All in the mind of the parent. There is nothing worse than the positive affirmation parent (I love you, you're special, you're the best, bff, etc.) who creates in the mind of the child a "victim" mentality any time the kid doesn't get their way. I'm not supporting Leach and his actions or suggesting past/present players don't have legitimate gripes against Leach. This post is a bit off thread but I do think a lot of parents have created a culture of I'm a victim resulting in a lot of today's kids being pathetic pussies. Sad.
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No, it is people refusing to be victims. It's the wretch who just rolls over and submits, as you demand, who is the "pussy".
 


Something like 30 guys quit the UW program when Alvarez took over. I knew one of them. He was a good guy and it was simply a case of "This is not for me". Stadium steps in CR until nearly everyone pukes was one of the anecdotes I heard.

This story about WSU sounds like a guy who wasn't interested in the program Leech is putting in place, but felt entitled, and this was unwilling to simply walk away on Leech's terms. I'll bet Leech is glad he's gone.
 



RodentRampage said:
No, it is people refusing to be victims. It's the wretch who just rolls over and submits, as you demand, who is the "pussy".
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I think we need more facts. I don't think we know exactly what Leach is doing. If these kids are whining from a little criticism, like that cowardly golfer who got the D-3 coach fired last week, then I think this is a problem with athletes being too coddles. On the other hand, if Leach is beating them with a tire iron, kudos to the receiver for standing up and doing something about it.
 

Formo said:
Forgot about JewJew already, eh?
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JewJew is a complete idiot who posts photos on social media of himself with piles of weed and purple drank who quit school and football to promote z-grade hip hop parties. That Kill had no patience for that speaks highly of Jerry and his staff. Has anyone said anything similar about the kid from WSU? Assuming that the kid wrote the letter himself, he's obviously not a idiot - it's very well written.
 





highwayman said:
Won't happen. Three and gone to some other desperately stupid BCS program. Dennis Erickson, Gene Chizik, Skip Holtz, Rich Rodriguez...the list goes on and on.
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Lubbock isn't that nice and he stayed there so I am not so sure. Plus I don't think he gets a better offer until he wins.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I don't hear former and current Gophers complaining about the mindset changes and how Kill and staff go about it. Leach has character issues and will be out of a job again.
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We had kids quit on Coach Kill or don't you remember that? I'm not saying Leach isn't a difficult coach because I believe he is. However I do believe he has been given some freedom to assemble the program how he wants to. With all the hoopla that has been going on I have heard zero from school admins about firing or reprimanding him. They knew fully what was coming with Leach when they hired him.
 

panolo said:
The only difference from Saban and Leach in this aspect is Saban has a few more wins this year. Why would a good coach ever let himself be 2nd guessed in this spot? WSU has sucked for a long time. It wasn't going to be easy for Leach to turn the program and the mindset around in Pullman.
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There may not be a difference in substance (as I think pretty much every college head coach is totally full of sh*t), but there certainly is in style. There's an old saying, "Keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you're a jackass instead of opening your mouth and removing all doubt." There is an arrogance to Saban (but again, I can't think of a college football head coach who isn't a bit arrogant), but Leach actually thinks he's re-invented the game, and he hasn't. There's nothing he did at Kentucky as offensive coordinator or head coach at Texas Tech and is doing as head coach at Washington State that hasn't been tried before. Just because Michael Lewis writes an article about you in The New York Times Magazine doesn't make you a genius.

Saban may be an arrogant pr*ck with ants in his pants, but he doesn't go around claiming that he's re-invented football.
 



panolo said:
We had kids quit on Coach Kill or don't you remember that? I'm not saying Leach isn't a difficult coach because I believe he is. However I do believe he has been given some freedom to assemble the program how he wants to. With all the hoopla that has been going on I have heard zero from school admins about firing or reprimanding him. They knew fully what was coming with Leach when they hired him.
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I remember kids quitting, but did they publicly claim abuse? School announced they are investigating.
 


50PoundHead said:
There may not be a difference in substance (as I think pretty much every college head coach is totally full of sh*t), but there certainly is in style. There's an old saying, "Keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you're a jackass instead of opening your mouth and removing all doubt." There is an arrogance to Saban (but again, I can't think of a college football head coach who isn't a bit arrogant), but Leach actually thinks he's re-invented the game, and he hasn't. There's nothing he did at Kentucky as offensive coordinator or head coach at Texas Tech and is doing as head coach at Washington State that hasn't been tried before. Just because Michael Lewis writes an article about you in The New York Times Magazine doesn't make you a genius.

Saban may be an arrogant pr*ck with ants in his pants, but he doesn't go around claiming that he's re-invented football.
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I don't disagree with you're points for the most part. I do however disagree about the offensive side of what Leach has done. The Air Raid is basically his baby. I don't think he re-invented the wheel or anything but his offensive success can't be denied.
 

A lot of this has to be taken with a grain of salt. You have a "star" player from last year not happy with the new regime who isn't worshiping him like he thinks they should. I'm sure it is not easy for a new coach to change a culture and build for the future without offending some of the upperclassmen.

I found this article from mid-October to be interesting, which provides some of Leach's perspective.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...-leach-compares-seniors-empty-corpses-zombies

You could probably go back 1yr ago and find a similar statement from Kill.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I remember kids quitting, but did they publicly claim abuse? School announced they are investigating.
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That is because they didn't have the balls to stay long enough to go through Kill's practices and off seasons.

I would be surprised if he is not found to be compliant when the investigation is done. From everything I have heard there were set parameters for Leach made by WSU. It sounds like he was within these when the player quit.

I'm not trying to be a Leach apologist. I enjoy watching his teams but feel we got the better hire. However Craig James is a idiot. His kid is an idiot. They were a couple of dolts looking for the spotlight and now Leach has to live with the scrutiny.
 


dpodoll68 said:
Non-story. Leach did nothing wrong at Texas Tech ....
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Well, that is sort of like it depends on the what the meaning of is is. First, he attempts browbeat a kid with a concussion into practicing. Once upon a time, SOP. Not so much anymore. Second, school tells him to apologize to the kid. He refuses and is suspended. Third, he goes to court to get an injunction to overturn his suspension. While he may not have done anything "wrong", it is not terribly surprising that he was fired.
 

harrys ghost said:
First, he attempts browbeat a kid with a concussion into practicing. Once upon a time, SOP. Not so much anymore. Second, school tells him to apologize to the kid. He refuses and is suspended. Third, he goes to court to get an injunction to overturn his suspension. While he may not have done anything "wrong", it is not terribly surprising that he was fired.
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Link? This isn't the version of events I've heard. What I heard is that Adam James had a "concussion", was told to find a cool, dark place to take it easy, and instead was dicking around on the sidelines with student football staff. When Leach made him get out of the sun, because of his "concussion" "symptoms", lil' James didn't appreciate being put in his place. He and his daddy then made a concerted effort to get Leach fired because their poor widdle feewings got hurt.
 

There are varying reports. The only constant is that James was kicked out of practice because the lights irritated his concussion. He was under a no contact order from Dr's. Let me add that this wasn't the first time James was kicked out of practice.
 

http://sportsbybrooks.com/how-craig-james-faked-adams-football-career-29974

Read this.

So, basically what we have is a dad who:

- got his untalented son a modicum of PT on a low-level (2A) Texas HS football team

- got said untalented and unproductive son an invite to the Army All-American Bowl (only 2A Texas player EVER to receive the honor) despite said untalented and unproductive son having a total of 14 career receptions at the time of selection

- got said untalented, unproductive, undeserving son a scholarship he didn't earn by somehow talking Leach into it, despite having NO other offers, not even one from James' alma mater

And then, on the other side, Leach:

- worked himself up from nothing to the pinnacle of his profession, with no connections and no playing experience

- had a fairly long coaching career prior to crossing paths with the James boys, and had no history of disciplinary action or other behavior issues

It's pretty obvious, to me at least, what really happened. Despite not earning a single thing he'd ever gotten in his life, lil' James thought himself entitled to VIP treatment. When someone finally had the cojones to stand up to he and his immoral, duplicitous, greedy father, they didn't appreciate it, and got the guy fired for his trouble. I doubt any of us will ever know the real, whole truth, but I'm quite comfortable in thinking that Leach didn't do anything even remotely untoward or inappropriate.
 

And none of the above even going into the fact that Leach was due a huge bonus on 12/31, and was fired on 12/30. How very convenient.
 

USA Today: Kid was suspended from the team Nov 5th and quits alleging abuse 5 days later. Note, the Athletic Director's strong defense of Leach. Does anyone really see the AD putting his neck out there like this if there is anything to this story? In my opinion there is nothing to see here besides a kid who refuses to take accountability for his actions.


From the USA Today article (my emphasis added):

3:14PM EST November 12. 2012 - DENVER – Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott said Monday the league has been asked to help conduct an independent inquiry into allegations by former Washington State receiver Marquess Wilson of mistreatment by the coaching staff.

In a letter released to news media outlets Saturday, Wilson claimed first-year coach Mike Leach and his staff "preferred to belittle, intimidate and humiliate us" and referred to "physical, emotional and verbal abuse."

RELATED: Receiver makes allegations

Wilson, the Cougars' leading receiver, was suspended indefinitely by Leach Nov. 5 for breaking unspecified team rules. He announced he was leaving the team Saturday.
Scott, who is in Denver for a meeting with BCS conference commissioners, said Washington State president Elson Floyd asked for the Pac-12's assistance, but added he wasn't sure yet what form the aid would take. In a statement released Sunday, Floyd called for a review to "get to the bottom of the matter."

Leach's 10-year tenure at Texas Tech ended in 2009 after a player claimed mistreatment. He was hired a year ago after two years away from coaching. After a 44-36 loss Saturday to UCLA, Washington State is 2-8 overall and 0-7 in Pac-12 play.

"I'm not going to talk about anyone that isn't here," Leach told reporters after the game.

According to the Washington State-focused web site cougcenter.com, athletic director Bill Moos on Monday defended and supported Leach in Moos' weekly call-in show.

"I think young people today crave discipline," Moos said, according to the web site. "They just don't know it. There's gonna be discipline in Cougar athletics."

Moos added, "I have members of my staff that are in all aspects of practice, locker rooms. Student-athlete welfare is always at the top of my list of my priority. Football is a tough game. Tough players are the result of tough coaches."
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panolo said:
I don't disagree with you're points for the most part. I do however disagree about the offensive side of what Leach has done. The Air Raid is basically his baby. I don't think he re-invented the wheel or anything but his offensive success can't be denied.
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Perhaps only in a terminology sense. Leach does nothing remarkably different than what Mouse Davis developed at Portland State, which was originally developed by a high school coach from Ohio. I'm old and the new pass-heavy offenses have nothing on old pre-merger AFL football.

And dpo, all the favorable things you said about Leach may be true. That doesn't prevent him from being a d*ck.

As for kids leaving the U program after Kill was hired, that's not rare in the wake of a coaching change regardless of who got fired and who get hired. A lot of marginal guys see the writing on the wall. I doubt it had much to do with Kill's conditioning program or his expectations. Maybe in the case of Juwann Edwards, but from what I have read, he might have been done anyway as an academic casualty.
 

50PoundHead said:
And dpo, all the favorable things you said about Leach may be true. That doesn't prevent him from being a d*ck.
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I don't doubt, at all, that he is a d*ck. Most football coaches, especially at the major college and NFL level, are. But that doesn't mean he did anything wrong. I think we'd all laugh if we find out what this kid's definition of "abuse" is. My 6-year-old says that I'm "abusing" him when I make him do his homework.
 

50PoundHead said:
Perhaps only in a terminology sense. Leach does nothing remarkably different than what Mouse Davis developed at Portland State, which was originally developed by a high school coach from Ohio. I'm old and the new pass-heavy offenses have nothing on old pre-merger AFL football.

And dpo, all the favorable things you said about Leach may be true. That doesn't prevent him from being a d*ck.

As for kids leaving the U program after Kill was hired, that's not rare in the wake of a coaching change regardless of who got fired and who get hired. A lot of marginal guys see the writing on the wall. I doubt it had much to do with Kill's conditioning program or his expectations. Maybe in the case of Juwann Edwards, but from what I have read, he might have been done anyway as an academic casualty.
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Maybe??? Might have??? You are too kind with your discriptions of JugHead Jew Jew.
 

Dr.Don said:
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Maybe??? Might have??? You are too kind with your discriptions of JugHead Jew Jew.
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I know enough about college athletics to know that it takes a complete Jughead almost trying to become ineligible to become ineligible. That may be Edwards.
 

50PoundHead said:
I know enough about college athletics to know that it takes a complete Jughead almost trying to become ineligible to become ineligible. That may be Edwards.
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It is like my late Father told me when I was in High School... "Do what ya want, Son, ya don't haffta work very hard to get an F."
 

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