St. Thomas headed to Summit League

[coolhandgopher]

How impactful has UWGB been on the Marquette and Wisconsin basketball programs over the years? That hypothetical 6th-7th-8th man walk on you speak of for the Gophers has been going to Northern Iowa, the Dakotas, UWGB, etc. for a number of years. There's only so many spots on a roster and if a kid wants to play, they're going to find a college that'll take them.

As for the hypothetical scenario of a 4-12 Gophers squad losing crowds to St. Thomas. . .well, we've been there, done that, except that time and dollars is going to the Timberwolves, where you can watch the best players in the world. The given scenario reminds me of those golden days of the Twins being discussed for contraction and the Saints drawing solid crowds and tailgates at Midway, and if I recall, even outdrawing the Twins on the occasional night. No way that it could last.

In my view, the high level of prep basketball currently in the state has been highly influenced by the T-Wolves (or, to be accurate, that we are a NBA city and access to viewing the top talent in the sport). Another D-1 team means more interest in basketball, more talent, more opportunities, more development, more awareness. How long has the state had several hockey programs at the top level, and teams such as UMD, St. Cloud State, Mankato and Bemidji competing right along side the Gophers (if not better)? I know nothing of college hockey, but I have to imagine it's been a case of higher water raising all boats. It's going to be years before the Tommies would be any type of competition for the Gophers and as Ope3 pointed out, the Gophers coach deserves to be under scrutiny if they're a better draw that a Big 10 team.

 

[Zeppelin Gopher]

As a giant Gophers fan I see 0 upside in this for the U. Do I think we will lose out on all kinds of recruits/fans? No, but there is now another option. If the Gophers are say 4-12 in Big ten play and have Ohio St coming in on a Wednesday night, meanwhile across town UST is 14-1 in conf and has NDSU coming in at 12-2, I can see some people going over to UST for a night of bball. Or the recruit who is dead set on staying in MN but is very faith based and not interested in a huge campus/school now has an option to play D1 and not go to say Marquette or Creighton.

I don't know specifics but look for example at Trey Lance at NDSU. I am sure his options were, well maybe get some run at the U or be the starting QB at a FCS powerhouse, he chose the later and took away the U as an option. Had NDSU not been there who knows, maybe he just goes to the U in a smaller role. Those guys are not the Ty Johnson's/Oturu's of the world but you miss out on 2 guys who are really good 5th/6th men on the bball team that take you from having a good year to a great year.

Good for UST but as a Gophers fan I am certainly seeing them as "objects in the rear view mirror are closer than they appear".

Id be SHOCKED if a recruit ever chose UST over the Gophers. Wouldn't happen.

 

[Zeppelin Gopher]

After reading through this thread...apparently our fanbase is even more insecure than I'd ever imagined.

If we're seriously concerned and stressing about UST providing competition to the Gophers then we might as well give up and withdraw from the Big Ten right now.

 

[Holy Man]

How impactful has UWGB been on the Marquette and Wisconsin basketball programs over the years? That hypothetical 6th-7th-8th man walk on you speak of for the Gophers has been going to Northern Iowa, the Dakotas, UWGB, etc. for a number of years. There's only so many spots on a roster and if a kid wants to play, they're going to find a college that'll take them.

As for the hypothetical scenario of a 4-12 Gophers squad losing crowds to St. Thomas. . .well, we've been there, done that, except that time and dollars is going to the Timberwolves, where you can watch the best players in the world. The given scenario reminds me of those golden days of the Twins being discussed for contraction and the Saints drawing solid crowds and tailgates at Midway, and if I recall, even outdrawing the Twins on the occasional night. No way that it could last.

In my view, the high level of prep basketball currently in the state has been highly influenced by the T-Wolves (or, to be accurate, that we are a NBA city and access to viewing the top talent in the sport). Another D-1 team means more interest in basketball, more talent, more opportunities, more development, more awareness. How long has the state had several hockey programs at the top level, and teams such as UMD, St. Cloud State, Mankato and Bemidji competing right along side the Gophers (if not better)? I know nothing of college hockey, but I have to imagine it's been a case of higher water raising all boats. It's going to be years before the Tommies would be any type of competition for the Gophers and as Ope3 pointed out, the Gophers coach deserves to be under scrutiny if they're a better draw that a Big 10 team.

Fair analysis, but the hockey analogy fails. Gopher hockey is no longer dominant and there are many reasons, one of them being it is harder to get the best players in Minnesota to be Gophers. The proliferation of D-1 hockey teams in Minnesota has contributed to it.

I must be in a bubble many of you don't live in, but I see throngs of fair weather fans losing even more interest in the Gophers if UST gets competitive in the Summit. I dread the day the Tommies are in the tournament with a NET of 225 based on a late run in the season run and upsets in the conference tournament and the Gophers are one of the last four out. Media goes crazy about how good little UST is and how terrible the Gophers are.

I don't see huge recruiting issues, but there is definitely risk in the depth category when a guy who could help the Gophers chooses UST because of playing time.

There is no upside for the Gophers. There may be an upside for fans if we can see a D-1 game up close for $10.

 

[Zeppelin Gopher]

I dread the day the Tommies are in the tournament with a NET of 225 based on a late run in the season run and upsets in the conference tournament and the Gophers are one of the last four out. Media goes crazy about how good little UST is and how terrible the Gophers are.

This is an interesting point that I hadn't thought of. Could definitely see the PPress and Strib running with that angle.

 

[GopherGod]

If they are faith based they won't go to St Thomas. [emoji57]

Nor would they if they value education. Overpriced sub par school that no one outside the state has ever heard of.


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[SelectionSunday]

Nor would they if they value education. Overpriced sub par school that no one outside the state has ever heard of.


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You must be an Ole.

 

[GopherGod]

You must be an Ole.

Far from it. I wouldn’t ever consider nor let my kids consider applying to sub par schools that have zero value outside the state of Minnesota and paying a premium for it at the same time.


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[Ski U Mah Gopher]

Far from it. I wouldn’t ever consider nor let my kids consider applying to sub par schools that have zero value outside the state of Minnesota and paying a premium for it at the same time.


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Well, if they are scholarship BB players, they aren't paying.

 

[GopherGod]

Well, if they are scholarship BB players, they aren't paying.

True but they might as well get a degree that is actually worth something beyond the Twin Cities whether they are paying or not.


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[MplsGopher]

How impactful has UWGB been on the Marquette and Wisconsin basketball programs over the years? That hypothetical 6th-7th-8th man walk on you speak of for the Gophers has been going to Northern Iowa, the Dakotas, UWGB, etc. for a number of years. There's only so many spots on a roster and if a kid wants to play, they're going to find a college that'll take them.

As for the hypothetical scenario of a 4-12 Gophers squad losing crowds to St. Thomas. . .well, we've been there, done that, except that time and dollars is going to the Timberwolves, where you can watch the best players in the world. The given scenario reminds me of those golden days of the Twins being discussed for contraction and the Saints drawing solid crowds and tailgates at Midway, and if I recall, even outdrawing the Twins on the occasional night. No way that it could last.

In my view, the high level of prep basketball currently in the state has been highly influenced by the T-Wolves (or, to be accurate, that we are a NBA city and access to viewing the top talent in the sport). Another D-1 team means more interest in basketball, more talent, more opportunities, more development, more awareness. How long has the state had several hockey programs at the top level, and teams such as UMD, St. Cloud State, Mankato and Bemidji competing right along side the Gophers (if not better)? I know nothing of college hockey, but I have to imagine it's been a case of higher water raising all boats. It's going to be years before the Tommies would be any type of competition for the Gophers and as Ope3 pointed out, the Gophers coach deserves to be under scrutiny if they're a better draw that a Big 10 team.

When you look at St Thomas as an institution and as a market, they compare favorably to Marquette.

Obviously, you can’t fabricate that level of a b-ball program, out of nothing, overnight. Not saying a Big East invite is coming soon, and even if it did, not saying Minnesota v UST will be like Wisconsin v Marquette.

But I think that is much more the long term vision, than UW-Milwaukee.

 

[SelectionSunday]

Far from it. I wouldn’t ever consider nor let my kids consider applying to sub par schools that have zero value outside the state of Minnesota and paying a premium for it at the same time.


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Where do your kids go to school? Where did you go to school?

 

[Zeppelin Gopher]

UST is wildly overpriced.

 

[Go4]

Where do your kids go to school? Where did you go to school?

80% of the kids from the united states that go to ust, are from minnesota. this is waaaaay too high. obviously ust has a good international reach and good relationships with certain regions outside the u.s., but to gopher god's point, most people in the u.s. but not from minnesota have never heard of st. thomas. it's why they include "st. thomas in minnesota" in much of their recruitment materials outside minnesota. moving to d1 in sports will help them recruit u.s. kids outside of minnesota.

 

[GopherGod]

Where do your kids go to school? Where did you go to school?

I went to Minnesota, my kids are still in elementary school but schools like st. Thomas, St bens, st Olaf, Gustavus etc.. won’t even be in consideration when the time comes. If paying that type of money you might as well consider small elite liberal arts schools out east that actually have reach, reputation,and alumni connections beyond Minneapolis. For those kids at st Thomas that couldn’t get into Minnesota(a ton of the people I have met) they should have probably saved the cash and went to St. Cloud State or Mankato, etc..

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[AO54]

I don't expect them to compete with us for top recruits or anything but even if the gophers lose so much as a potential walk-on to UST that otherwise would have came here, that will be too much for me and I will be pissed.

And it sounds like no more Tommi-Johnnie football unfortunately. I was hoping we'd be able to continue that even if St. Thomas was in the UW conference.

Bad for St. John's, bad for the U. Don't like it.

Basketball walk-ons are generally not good enough to have any D1 scholarship offers on the table. It seems to happen more in football where there is a greater chance a scholarship will open up in the future for them.

I think Tommie-Johnnie goes on as long as the Tommies play in the non-scholarship Pioneer league for football.

 

[SelectionSunday]

I went to Minnesota, my kids are still in elementary school but schools like st. Thomas, St bens, st Olaf, Gustavus etc.. won’t even be in consideration when the time comes. If paying that type of money you might as well consider small elite liberal arts schools out east that actually have reach and alumni connections beyond Minneapolis.


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Fair enough. I can't quibble with the U of M.

 

[Ope3]

I went to Minnesota, my kids are still in elementary school but schools like st. Thomas, St bens, st Olaf, Gustavus etc.. won’t even be in consideration when the time comes. If paying that type of money you might as well consider small elite liberal arts schools out east that actually have reach and alumni connections beyond Minneapolis.


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One can probably read to much into board monikers/avatars but that is probably the most obvious expected answer from someone that goes by "GopherGod". Sanctimonious maybe, but quite up front about it.

And so the Gopher-Tommie rivalry begins with SS & GG.

 

[die hard gopher]

Basketball walk-ons are generally not good enough to have any D1 scholarship offers on the table. It seems to happen more in football where there is a greater chance a scholarship will open up in the future for them.

I think Tommie-Johnnie goes on as long as the Tommies play in the non-scholarship Pioneer league for football.

Stephon Sharp had an offer from Hampton and Wisconsin and former Edina player Walt MCgory had several offers form SDSU, Maine, Brown, Drake etc.

Anyways my point was that if the gophers lose out on a single kid, even if they are are our plan B, C, D, F or Z recruit, that is enough for me to oppose this move. If it affects the gophers in the slightest of ways no matter how infinitesimally small it may seem, someone choosing to buy a single game ticket to a UST game instead of a gopher game, even watching UST on TV as opposed to the gophers, I won't like it.

I know that they likely won't affect the gophers in any significant way even insignificant way but I still don't like it.

And I would imagine UST would probably have a pretty big advantage over SJU in football if they joined the Pioneer league, even though it is still non scholarship football.

 

[Zeppelin Gopher]

Stephon Sharp had an offer from Hampton and Wisconsin and former Edina player Walt MCgory had several offers form SDSU, Maine, Brown, Drake etc.

Anyways my point was that if the gophers lose out on a single kid, even if they are are our plan B, C, D, F or Z recruit, that is enough for me to oppose this move. If it affects the gophers in the slightest of ways no matter how infinitesimally small it may seem, someone choosing to buy a single game ticket to a UST game instead of a gopher game, even watching UST on TV as opposed to the gophers, I won't like it.

I know that they likely won't affect the gophers in any significant way even insignificant way but I still don't like it.

And I would imagine UST would probably have a pretty big advantage over SJU in football if they joined the Pioneer league, even though it is still non scholarship football.

One positive from this move- we can schedule an annual game at the Barn against UST, and will save the athletic department some decent coin on account of not having to pay them travel costs.

 

[Ope3]

Stephon Sharp had an offer from Hampton and Wisconsin and former Edina player Walt MCgory had several offers form SDSU, Maine, Brown, Drake etc.

Anyways my point was that if the gophers lose out on a single kid, even if they are are our plan B, C, D, F or Z recruit, that is enough for me to oppose this move. If it affects the gophers in the slightest of ways no matter how infinitesimally small it may seem, someone choosing to buy a single game ticket to a UST game instead of a gopher game, even watching UST on TV as opposed to the gophers, I won't like it.

I know that they likely won't affect the gophers in any significant way even insignificant way but I still don't like it.

And I would imagine UST would probably have a pretty big advantage over SJU in football if they joined the Pioneer league, even though it is still non scholarship football.

Maybe the Gophers could start raiding Grad Transfers from UST. Win-Win.

 

[dpodoll68]

One can probably read to much into board monikers/avatars but that is probably the most obvious expected answer from someone that goes by "GopherGod". Sanctimonious maybe, but quite up front about it.

And so the Gopher-Tommie rivalry begins with SS & GG.

GopherGod is generally a knob, but he is 100% right on this. If someone wants to go to the best school they can at a given price point, there are dozens of schools better than St. Thomas across the country for the same or lower cost. If someone really wants to stay in-state, they'd be better off going to a Minnesota State system school, any of which are far cheaper and offer a similar level of education. St. Thomas offers the undesirable combination of mediocre education with an insane sticker price. Tuition alone runs about $45,000 per year. One could go to Harvard or Princeton for the same cost or less - not that anyone who could get into an Ivy League school is forgoing that option to go to St. Thomas.

 

[MennoSota]

When you look at St Thomas as an institution and as a market, they compare favorably to Marquette.

Obviously, you can’t fabricate that level of a b-ball program, out of nothing, overnight. Not saying a Big East invite is coming soon, and even if it did, not saying Minnesota v UST will be like Wisconsin v Marquette.

But I think that is much more the long term vision, than UW-Milwaukee.

I envision UST to be more like Drake.

 

[MennoSota]

I went to Minnesota, my kids are still in elementary school but schools like st. Thomas, St bens, st Olaf, Gustavus etc.. won’t even be in consideration when the time comes. If paying that type of money you might as well consider small elite liberal arts schools out east that actually have reach, reputation,and alumni connections beyond Minneapolis. For those kids at st Thomas that couldn’t get into Minnesota(a ton of the people I have met) they should have probably saved the cash and went to St. Cloud State or Mankato, etc..

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I have a kid at Bethel. His grades and ACT score cut tuition more than in half. It ended up being cheaper than sending him to UMN. When you actually have kids old enough for college, you'll understand how private schools can end up being cheaper than big cookie cutter Universities.
That being said, I absolutely support UMN at the D1 level above other Universities.

 

[MplsGopher]

I envision UST to be more like Drake.

Drake doesn’t stand up, institution and market wise. Look at endowment, enrollment, and market size of the three.

On the court, for the next while, sure Drake is a good goal I suppose.

 

[MplsGopher]

GopherGod is generally a knob, but he is 100% right on this. If someone wants to go to the best school they can at a given price point, there are dozens of schools better than St. Thomas across the country for the same or lower cost. If someone really wants to stay in-state, they'd be better off going to a Minnesota State system school, any of which are far cheaper and offer a similar level of education. St. Thomas offers the undesirable combination of mediocre education with an insane sticker price. Tuition alone runs about $45,000 per year. One could go to Harvard or Princeton for the same cost or less - not that anyone who could get into an Ivy League school is forgoing that option to go to St. Thomas.

No one pays full price. You obviously didn’t go to or know anyone who went to a MIAC school.

And you can’t compare the education between a more selective liberal arts college and a let-anyone-with-a-pulse-in St Cloud/Mankato type school. Apples to watermelon experiences. Can’t really quantify “how good” of an education you get, that largely depends on the student.

UST is obviously trying to be different than a MIAC liberal arts college, though.

 

[SKOOKM]

Perhaps the competition will spur on the Gophers to get better. Not just on the field but off the field as well such as marketing.

Maybe some passive Gopher fans will have a bit of a fire lit under them as well to get behind the team when St. Thomas people start talking trash.

 

[builtbadgers]

I think that a 2nd D1 program in the state would benefit Gopher basketball.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I think that a 2nd D1 program in the state would benefit Gopher basketball.

Agreed. Competition usually can help with Donations and quality of product. More pressure and less stagnation.

 

[MennoSota]

Where would UST play their games? It couldn't be in that cracker box gym of theirs.