SS's Buzz Clips 2010-11 Finale -- Tubby's First 4 Years vs. Monson's First 4 Years

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STADIUM VILLAGE, U.S.A. -- Folks, I've enjoyed contributing what I could to this board for the nearly completed 2010-11 college basketball campaign. Like Nadine said in her Strib blog a few days ago, I, too, always feel a twinge of sadness as the season nears its conclusion. For some reason, since I was about 15 years old, there's always been the "college basketball season" and then there's "the rest of my calendar." I love playing golf (spring to late fall), enjoy following the Twins, and love the pageantry of college football, but none of those things hold a candle to the enjoyment I get out of the college basketball season, even one in which the Gophers fell short of expectations. There's always next year, which right now is likely more than we can say for the money-grubbers involved with the NFL and NBA (not that we're exempt from slime-balls in D-I hoops).

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1378
 


DontHassleTheHoff said:
Appreciate all of the coverage this year. A bunch of good stuff!
Click to expand...

What ^^^ said. You've added so much to GopherHole, Hodger, and I think everyone here is greatly appreciative.

Really liked this piece in particular, and can't imagine how long it must have taken to break down the stats for Monson's first 4 years. When you look at them side by side, with no biases, just stats - there's really not that much of a difference, (except Tubby kicks butt at neutral courts) which is a little surprising considering Tubby's reputation, salary, tenure, and accomplishments. Hopefully we're heading in the right direction next year.

Thanks again for doing this!
 

Good stuff SS.

There's no doubt Tubby has the better of the two records. The alarming part is the fact that it is actually a legitimate discussion to be had. The two situations are not really very comparable in that Monson walked into a far bigger mess. Impending penalties and the subsequent loss of a good number of scholarships as well as recruiting visits were a pretty big handicap not to mention the national stigma the program was under at the time. Tubby walked into a lousy team but with a cleaned up program and a couple of decent incoming Monson recruits in Nolen and Hoffarber.

Like you I think Tubby will yet get the job done and we will have a good year next year. None the less he makes twice as much as Monson ever did and with that should come equally high expectations.
 

Big Ten Record at Williams Arena
Monson: 19-13 (59.4%)
Smith: 21-15 (58.3%)

Smith really has to improve on this. Not good. Thanks for all you add SS, much appreciated.
 


Nicely done my friend, a good summary. You must keep a lot of stats handy to be able to pull something like this together!
The one thing you can't put in to stats but is somehow overlaying all of this is expectations. I know you qualified your stats report with this is only the stats, but one could be viewed as OK because expectations might have been low, the other disappointing because the expectations might have been higher. With that said, in my humble opinion, I am more disappointed with Smith's run versus Monson's. Tubby came in to the program with a more powerful reputation. There were some expectations for this seasons group, not just by biased Gopher crazies, but by the national media. Oh well, there is always next year....
One stat that was particularly surprising to me was the home record, I thought it was better...for sure I think it should be better!
I'd like to see Clem's record while defending the Williams arena hardwood....might you have the stats for that?
 

Clem's first 4 seasons at The Barn

Minnesotagrizzly said:
I'd like to see Clem's record while defending the Williams arena hardwood....might you have the stats for that?
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Thanks to Eric Thrall's web site, it was easy to look up Clem's record in his first 4 seasons at The Barn. Here's how the numbers stack up vs. Monson & Smith.

Please note, there are 3 opponents Clem played that I'm not sure whether they were D-I programs at that point -- Chicago State, Florida International & Youngstown State (I know all 3 were D-I as early as the 1993-94 season) -- but for comparative purposes I am counting them as D-I. As I noted, I don't count non-Division I games in the comparative records.

Williams Arena Record
1. Smith (52-17, 75.4%)
2. Monson (51-17, 75%)
3. Haskins (40-20, 66.7%)

Big Ten Record at Williams Arena
1. Monson (19-13, 59.4%)
2. Smith (21-15, 58.3%)
3. Haskins (20-16, 55.6%)
 

SelectionSunday said:
Thanks to Eric Thrall's web site, it was easy to look up Clem's record in his first 4 seasons at The Barn. Here's how the numbers stack up vs. Monson & Smith.

Please note, there are 3 opponents Clem played that I'm not sure whether they were D-I programs at that point -- Chicago State, Florida International & Youngstown State (I know all 3 were D-I as early as the 1993-94 season) -- but for comparative purposes I am counting them as D-I. As I noted, I don't count non-Division I games in the comparative records.

Williams Arena Record
1. Smith (52-17, 75.4%)
2. Monson (51-17, 75%)
3. Haskins (40-20, 66.7%)

Big Ten Record at Williams Arena
1. Monson (19-13, 59.4%)
2. Smith (21-15, 58.3%)
3. Haskins (20-16, 55.6%)
Click to expand...

Thrall's website is a treasure. I can't understand why the gophersports.com site can't do stuff like this. As to Clem he inherited the worst squad in Gopher history his first year. If ever a coach deserved a "mulligan year" that would be it. He did get a nice recruiting class from Dutch but Newbern had to sit out the first year so only Schick and Burton were of any help that first year.

Just a quick mulligan analysis - with each coach tossing out the first year (inherited squad) reveals an amazingly close race. Obviously Monson tanked from there while Clem had some great years if you can purge NCAA violations from you memory.

Tubby
Big Ten games (24-30) (Non tourney games)
All games (60-38)
All home games (41-12)

Monson
Big Ten games (22-26) non tourney
All games (55-41)
All home games (38-11)

Clem
Big ten games (24-30) non- tourney
All games (52-39)
All home games (35-12)
 

Good piece. I think as much as it illustrates Tubby's struggles (this year badly deflated his #'s) it also shows that Monson did a pretty good job here those first four years, and was basically 2-3 wins away from two NCAA appearances in 2002 and 2003.
 





Amazing work, SS. Thank you for the stats. I would like to add what I see as intangibles. I must qualify my statements as before Tubby, I was not a Gopher fan. And accept my apology for how this sounds, but I never considered Minnesota basketball as "being on the map" except for the rare and now-blemished Haskins performance in the NCAA tourney. So consider these observations as coming from a foreigner to Gopher basketball. Before Tubby- I don't remember seeing the Gophers on CBS/ESPN TV (noting the newness of the BigTen network). I also note Tubby lending his "clean" reputation to the U team. Tubby has been the Chairman of the College Basketball Coaches association and Coaches against Cancer and therefore his contacts are significant and beyond Minneapolis. His community and foundation work are out-standing. He has given the Gophers exposure. I doubt Andy Katz would have noticed the team early-on if it were not for Tubby. And from an outsider point of view it seems as if he (and staff) has had to go it alone. I know there must be some solid supporters, but they certainly are not vocal or found in the local media. Consider the "lack of respect" we, as well as the team, have noticed from some media. That has to be overcome. The promised practice facility is still in the "maybe" status. The tradition has to be built (or re-built). Perhaps Tubby should have "bonus points" for what he is trying to accomplish.

I have been watching Gopher basketball, since Tubby arrived, as a potential "feel-good" story. Building - or resurrecting if some prefer- a top-quality team in a top-quality conference. That takes time and patience. I'm disappointed with the outcome of this season, too. A bump-in-the-road. But the story continues next year and the next chapter may just be the one we are waiting for.

Again, thanks for all your great posts and I'll look froward to them next season.
 

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