Split national title

Some guy

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Cinci is number 2
If Georgia wins the SEC it knocks Bama out of contention to jump them.
So if Georgia wins the SEC and some lower team wins the playoff where cinci is left out by the committee….

It opens the door to a split national title. Which I’m jazzed about. It’s what makes college football great.
 


short ornery norwegian

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like it or not, the "National Title" is the Playoff winner.

the whole point of expanding the playoffs is to avoid scenarios such as the OP laid out.

If the top 8 or top 12 teams are in the playoff, no one can claim that they were denied a chance to win a Title, because it's almost impossible to come up with a scenario where the #9 team or the #13 team is legitimately good enough to win it all.

and- having said that - most years, there are not going to be 8 or 12 teams that have a legitimate chance to win it. but, I still support expanding the playoffs simply because it eliminates those arguments where the #5 team in the country claims they were denied a chance at a Title.
 

IceBoxGopher

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like it or not, the "National Title" is the Playoff winner.

the whole point of expanding the playoffs is to avoid scenarios such as the OP laid out.

If the top 8 or top 12 teams are in the playoff, no one can claim that they were denied a chance to win a Title, because it's almost impossible to come up with a scenario where the #9 team or the #13 team is legitimately good enough to win it all.

and- having said that - most years, there are not going to be 8 or 12 teams that have a legitimate chance to win it. but, I still support expanding the playoffs simply because it eliminates those arguments where the #5 team in the country claims they were denied a chance at a Title.
Yep, this is pretty much the case. Scenarios that hace had split titles and even those that didn't wouldn't happen these days.
  • 1994 had undefeated Nebraska and Penn State
  • 1997 had undefeated Nebraska and Michigan
  • 2004 had undefeated Auburn and USC
If the CFP exists, those scenarios don't happen. The only feasible way for a split national championship to happen these days is if all Power 5 conference champions were undefeated and one of them won the CFP and the other won another NY6 Bowl.

I think the fact that that's a possiblity, though, means the playoff needs to be expanded. I've thought eight teams would work out the best. Get the top eight teams in the country. Conference championship doens't have to be automatic since an upset could happen in a title game, but winning the conference can improve chances at a better seeding.

I'd also want a slot open for a high ranked Group of Five team. The following all went undefeated and never had a shot at a title. (*Didn't win the bowl game)
  • 1998 Tulane
  • 1999 Marshall
  • 2004 Utah
  • 2006 Boise State
  • 2007 Hawaii*
  • 2008 Utah
  • 2009 Boise State
  • 2010 TCU
  • 2016 Western Michigan*
  • 2017 UCF
  • 2018 UCF*
Yes the strength of schedule is weaker, but something about telling a team they automatically won't even get the opportunity to compete for a title doesn't sit right with me. I know some said Houston could have made it had they gone undefeated in 2016, but I still doubt they could have leapfrogged Ohio State or Penn State.

If the Group of 5 can't be included, it's basically another division of college football, except it's one that can't play for a championship.
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0

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Cinci is number 2
If Georgia wins the SEC it knocks Bama out of contention to jump them.
So if Georgia wins the SEC and some lower team wins the playoff where cinci is left out by the committee….

It opens the door to a split national title. Which I’m jazzed about. It’s what makes college football great.
You mean like the UCF situation a few years ago!
 




Some guy

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like it or not, the "National Title" is the Playoff winner.

the whole point of expanding the playoffs is to avoid scenarios such as the OP laid out.

If the top 8 or top 12 teams are in the playoff, no one can claim that they were denied a chance to win a Title, because it's almost impossible to come up with a scenario where the #9 team or the #13 team is legitimately good enough to win it all.

and- having said that - most years, there are not going to be 8 or 12 teams that have a legitimate chance to win it. but, I still support expanding the playoffs simply because it eliminates those arguments where the #5 team in the country claims they were denied a chance at a Title.
Not if the AP names someone else
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0

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Yea but AP is much more legit than whatever named UCF
I just find it hard to believe that if Cincinnati is outside of the top 4 in the final regular season CFP ranking they have any chance of being voted as split NC by the AP or Coaches!
 




Some guy

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If cinci wins out they will win AP national title provided the CFP champ has a loss.
The possibility of a split national title like 2003 and 1997 just went up by a lot
 

stocker08

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If cinci wins out they will win AP national title provided the CFP champ has a loss.
The possibility of a split national title like 2003 and 1997 just went up by a lot

Cincy could always go the the UCF route and claim a national title if they go undefeated and get blocked out of the playoff.
 

noamfromm

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If cinci wins out they will win AP national title provided the CFP champ has a loss.
The possibility of a split national title like 2003 and 1997 just went up by a lot
What's the rationale behind Cincinnati at 13-0 definitively being the AP number 1 if the CFP champ is 14-1 / 13-1?
 



noamfromm

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Cincy could always go the the UCF route and claim a national title if they go undefeated and get blocked out of the playoff.
Yes, if an official selector selects them as the champion a la the Colley Matrix selecting UCF in '17.
 

Some guy

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What's the rationale behind Cincinnati at 13-0 definitively being the AP number 1 if the CFP champ is 14-1 / 13-1?
Because they’re already number 2 and that’s the way the AP poll usually behaves
 


noamfromm

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Because they’re already number 2 and that’s the way the AP poll usually behaves
Are there examples of what you are talking about? To be clear you are saying that if Alabama wins out they wouldn't likely take over the number 1 ranking?
 

GoForGold

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They're going to have to make the playoff only for power 5 conference teams and add another playoff for the others. Or they are going to have to expand the current playoff. I think this year with Cincy will prove what should already be obvious.
 

Some guy

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Cincy could always go the the UCF route and claim a national title if they go undefeated and get blocked out of the playoff.
Might not need to. If someone other than Georgia, Oklahoma, Michigan state, and wake forest wins the national title and cinci is 13-0 I think they have a really good shot at AP Title

historically is works really simply. Win and move up if those in front Lose.
Jumping in the AP is hard if you have more losses than someone. Historically doesn’t happen much.
 

Some guy

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Are there examples of what you are talking about? To be clear you are saying that if Alabama wins out they wouldn't likely take over the number 1 ranking?
Examples of what? Split titles?
Yes.
2003 LSU won BCS and USC won AP
1997 Nebraska won coaches poll and Michigan won AP poll

I don’t understand what you’re asking for an example of
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Yep, this is pretty much the case. Scenarios that hace had split titles and even those that didn't wouldn't happen these days.
  • 1994 had undefeated Nebraska and Penn State
  • 1997 had undefeated Nebraska and Michigan
  • 2004 had undefeated Auburn and USC
If the CFP exists, those scenarios don't happen. The only feasible way for a split national championship to happen these days is if all Power 5 conference champions were undefeated and one of them won the CFP and the other won another NY6 Bowl.

I think the fact that that's a possiblity, though, means the playoff needs to be expanded. I've thought eight teams would work out the best. Get the top eight teams in the country. Conference championship doens't have to be automatic since an upset could happen in a title game, but winning the conference can improve chances at a better seeding.

I'd also want a slot open for a high ranked Group of Five team. The following all went undefeated and never had a shot at a title. (*Didn't win the bowl game)
  • 1998 Tulane
  • 1999 Marshall
  • 2004 Utah
  • 2006 Boise State
  • 2007 Hawaii*
  • 2008 Utah
  • 2009 Boise State
  • 2010 TCU
  • 2016 Western Michigan*
  • 2017 UCF
  • 2018 UCF*
Yes the strength of schedule is weaker, but something about telling a team they automatically won't even get the opportunity to compete for a title doesn't sit right with me. I know some said Houston could have made it had they gone undefeated in 2016, but I still doubt they could have leapfrogged Ohio State or Penn State.

If the Group of 5 can't be included, it's basically another division of college football, except it's one that can't play for a championship.
Nice work!
 

noamfromm

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Examples of what? Split titles?
Yes.
2003 LSU won BCS and USC won AP
1997 Nebraska won coaches poll and Michigan won AP poll

I don’t understand what you’re asking for an example of
An example of the scenario you laid out. You said that a one loss team usually does not over take an undefeated team if they are number 2 (this late in the season).
 

Some guy

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like it or not, the "National Title" is the Playoff winner.

the whole point of expanding the playoffs is to avoid scenarios such as the OP laid out.

If the top 8 or top 12 teams are in the playoff, no one can claim that they were denied a chance to win a Title, because it's almost impossible to come up with a scenario where the #9 team or the #13 team is legitimately good enough to win it all.

and- having said that - most years, there are not going to be 8 or 12 teams that have a legitimate chance to win it. but, I still support expanding the playoffs simply because it eliminates those arguments where the #5 team in the country claims they were denied a chance at a Title.
Like it or not the AP awards a national title based on their poll. Not the playoff

Right now the situation is as such as a split national title is a possibility…and I would argue a likelihood if Georgia loses a game
 

Some guy

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An example of the scenario you laid out. You said that a one loss team usually does not over take an undefeated team if they are number 2 (this late in the season).
I am not going to go through and try to prove a negative by examining every week 8+ poll since 1939

someone else can go ahead and disprove my statement if they want by giving enough examples of it happening to my make claim that it is rare wrong
 

noamfromm

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I am not going to go through and try to prove a negative by examining every week 8+ poll since 1939

someone else can go ahead and disprove my statement if they want by giving enough examples of it happening to my make claim that it is rare wrong
I just assumed that because you said "that's the way that the AP poll usually works" that you would have an example of that being the usual way that the poll worked. When I asked what your rationale was you could of just said "I have no evidence for my statement, it's just what I think".
 

Some guy

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I just assumed that because you said "that's the way that the AP poll usually works" that you would have an example of that being the usual way that the poll worked. When I asked what your rationale was you could of just said "I have no evidence for my statement, it's just what I think".
Look at every poll in the history of the AP

that’s the way the poll usually works.
There is my evidence
 

discochris

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If the Group of 5 can't be included, it's basically another division of college football, except it's one that can't play for a championship.
Thank you. That's what I've been saying as well.
 

Some guy

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Look at every poll in the history of the AP

that’s the way the poll usually works.
There is my evidence
Would be really easy to disprove me. Find 3+ examples of one loss teams jumping 0 loss teams in the poll in November/December in the last 20 years
 

Some guy

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Found 1
In 2017 the November 6 poll Penn state had two losses and jumped UCF.

neither team lost a game and UCF jumped back over Penn state by the end of the year.
 





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