Specifically, what is your minimum threshold to call 2017 season a success?

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Deja vu. Why do I feel like I've been here before?
 

John Galt said:
exactly. Maybe some GHers think this way:

1. We won 9 games last year
2. Fleck told the seniors we aren't in rebuilding mold
3. Realistic expectations are 10 wins and the Rose Bowl
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Given the schedule perceived as tougher than 2016, and that 5 B1G games are here, 8 regular season wins in 2017 is building on last year's record.
 

You can judge how pro-PJF someone is by their expectations for '17. The most pro-Fleck posters expect the least from him. Hell, some of his biggest fans only expect 7-8 wins over the next 4 years. It really is the Twilight Zone in here sometimes.


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KillerGopherFan said:
Deja vu. Why do I feel like I've been here before?
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It's always the same Claeys diehards that start/bump these threads. They need to continue to complain and feel better about themselves if/when Fleck doesn't meet the 9 win threshold of their favorite coach in season one.

They refuse to believe that recruiting was awful under Claeys this year and that the program was going to trend downward quickly because of it. There are FCS offenses with more talent than the Gophers will have next year. They also can't fathom that even if Fleck takes a step back in season one, there will be a higher ceiling 3-4 years down the road because he can actually recruit and coach.
 


If we had any clarity on the Quarterback situation, it would be a hell of a lot easier to provide a tighter range of wins... Because the extra practice time is so important, not making a bowl would be devastating, so I'm going to say 6 wins and a good bowl performance is a floor for not being disappointed. If the quarterback play is even worse, then if we show progression, beat the Badgers (and do it from the sunny-side of the Bank to show you're not an idiot) for win 6 and win the bowl game, I'd bet most GHers would be satiated.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Given the schedule perceived as tougher than 2016, and that 5 B1G games are here, 8 regular season wins in 2017 is building on last year's record.
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Given that the difference of winning and losing can come down to one play in a game, and that could happen in multiple games, predicting a win total is best left for Vegas and avid fans. It is a hazardous game when your job is on the line.
A fan's prediction isn't worth the internet space it's written on, so we all can have at it. But the difference between 5-7 and 8-4 can be as few as 3 plays in a season. Not to say it will be, but just that it can be. It's a fool's errand to take it too seriously.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
No it doesn't. Like I just said that he follows that up with how many young players are going to play the next few years and how they need to build his culture off the field. He hasn't said one thing about what he expects on the field.
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Yes he did. It's been quoted and posted in this thread and not only by me.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
Given that the difference of winning and losing can come down to one play in a game, and that could happen in multiple games, predicting a win total is best left for Vegas and avid fans. It is a hazardous game when your job is on the line.
A fan's prediction isn't worth the internet space it's written on, so we all can have at it. But the difference between 5-7 and 8-4 can be as few as 3 plays in a season. Not to say it will be, but just that it can be. It's a fool's errand to take it too seriously.
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We were 3 plays from having 10-11 regular season wins last season, just as an example.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's always the same Claeys diehards that start/bump these threads. They need to continue to complain and feel better about themselves if/when Fleck doesn't meet the 9 win threshold of their favorite coach in season one.

They refuse to believe that recruiting was awful under Claeys this year and that the program was going to trend downward quickly because of it. There are FCS offenses with more talent than the Gophers will have next year. They also can't fathom that even if Fleck takes a step back in season one, there will be a higher ceiling 3-4 years down the road because he can actually recruit and coach.
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That's because we had 1 data point (2016). Anyone who can spot a trend with 1 data point is lying to themselves.
 

Leaving the fact he was right aside, predicting a win total is likely not the smartest thing for a coach to do. Pretending it is actually a big deal or is amongst the worst things a coach could do is more ridiculous.


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Spoofin said:
Leaving the fact he was right aside, predicting a win total is likely not the smartest thing for a coach to do. Pretending it is actually a big deal or is amongst the worst things a coach could do is more ridiculous.
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If I didn't prefer to see the Gophers win, I would've loved to hear his prediction for 2017 had he returned as HC.
 




Bob_Loblaw said:
That's because we had 1 data point (2016). Anyone who can spot a trend with 1 data point is lying to themselves.
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1 data point? What about impressions of leadership, decision-making, recruiting, charisma, offensive production, etc.? No, there were lots of data points.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
1 data point? What about impressions of leadership, decision-making, recruiting, charisma, offensive production, etc.? No, there were lots of data points.
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Yes one data point for recruiting. He had one recruiting class. Some like to argue it wasn't even his so maybe... zero?
 

IMG_0429.jpg

equals

Flounder
IMG_0428.JPG

Just my opinion.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Exactly and he just said on KFAN a few days ago he's not going to predict a win total. He's also said before that 'building' in season one can mean more off the field than on.
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Yup. Wins are just a symptom of larger questions. If they don't win 6 regular season I'll be deeply disappointed, but what I'm looking for has less to do with W's and L's than it has to do with a thousand other things.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
1 data point? What about impressions of leadership, decision-making, recruiting, charisma, offensive production, etc.? No, there were lots of data points.
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There was 1 data point - 9 wins.

What trend are you hoping to find with leadership and charisma? You want us to be more charismatic? Just think of how big your crush for PJ will be in 2019? It's trending upward!

I do appreciate you proving my point though. You are parading your opinion for statistical data. I have a funny feeling that you wouldn't say "I know we're only winning 5 games a year, but our leadership is way better!".
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
That's because we had 1 data point (2016). Anyone who can spot a trend with 1 data point is lying to themselves.
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KillerGopherFan said:
1 data point? What about impressions of leadership, decision-making, recruiting, charisma, offensive production, etc.? No, there were lots of data points.
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'cause we live in a video game world, Killer. If NCAA '18 were coming out, I could make us NC.
 





Bob_Loblaw said:
Some honesty, good for you!

There is no way you would fantasize about being his wife. His wife would never have "struck gold".
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Oh come on Bob, you should be better than that. There's a reason I typed the name Flounder in. It's b/c that's where I saw TC's program going.
Stop with the juvenile personal insults.
Fun is one thing. Personal insults are another. I went along with it when Spoofin made the jab, but that's enough.
For someone that complains about the level of decorum on this forum, you have just lowered it.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
Oh come on Bob, you should be better than that. There's a reason I typed the name Flounder in. It's b/c that's where I saw TC's program going.
Stop with the juvenile personal insults.
Fun is one thing. Personal insults are another. I went along with it when Spoofin made the job, but that's enough.
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If you want to talk about trends and where the program was going why don't you look at the record. I believe you will see an upward trend.
 

bottlebass said:
If you want to talk about trends and where the program was going why don't you look at the record. I believe you will see an upward trend.
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Who said I wouldn't take that into account. But as others have pointed out that Fleck said, there are other things besides the W-L record that matter as much as the record.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
Who said I wouldn't take that into account. But as others have pointed out that Fleck said, there are other things besides the W-L record that matter as much as the record.
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that. We'll never be a relevant program again with a mentality like yours. Some of us want to see the gophers win the B1G and go to a rose bowl again. Others, like you, enjoy the mediocrity of the last 50 years. Hopefully Fleck disappoints you by actually winning.
 

bottlebass said:
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. We'll never be a relevant program again with a mentality like yours. Some of us want to see the gophers win the B1G and go to a rose bowl again. Others, like you, enjoy the mediocrity of the last 50 years. Hopefully Fleck disappoints you by actually winning.
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I think you're missing my point. Wins are the ultimate goal, the question is how you get there.
 


KillerGopherFan said:
Who said I wouldn't take that into account. But as others have pointed out that Fleck said, there are other things besides the W-L record that matter as much as the record.
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I heard PJ say B1G title, Rosebowl, Natty...
 

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