Souhan on MN not making tourney: "is not only embarrassing, it's revealing"

BleedGopher · Mar 12, 2012

Not worth clicking, but for those that care:

Stars come out once they get out

You might have thought it was a rough weekend for local basketball, what with Ricky Rubio hurting his knee and the Gophers again stubbing their toes, but on Sunday we were reminded that Minnesota is, indeed, as the Wild's marketing team always argues, "The State of Basketball."

The NCAA tournament bracket proves it. Whether you prefer a Mayor or killer Jackrabbits, those who fled or he who was dismissed, every Minnesotan who loves the game can find someone to care about in a 68-team bracket that treated the Gophers the way Randy Moss treats caterers.

How would you like to watch a Minnesota team coached by Fred Hoiberg and featuring Justin Cobbs at the point, Nate Wolters at shooting guard and Royce White at forward?

You'll get to see them all in the NCAA tournament, if not together on the same court or wearing the same school colors.

Sunday afternoon, the NCAA selection committee revealed its field, turning college basketball into the only sport that argues about who's No. 69. The committee's seedings led to CBS' Greg Anthony raving about Wolters and ESPN's Digger Phelps praising White.

In our provincial state, this means the NCAA tournament is all about us, even if our only Division I basketball program has trouble making the NIT.

On Wednesday, California will face South Florida in a play-in game. Cal features Cobbs, the former Gopher, whose season highlight might have been his high-scoring duel with Oregon's Devoe Joseph, another former Gopher who might have been useful to Tubby Smith this season.

On Thursday, Hoiberg, the classy former Timberwolves player and executive, will coach Iowa State against defending champion Connecticut in Louisville, Ky. Hoiberg took a chance on another former Gopher, White, who has thrived in Ames this season.

Also on Thursday in Louisville, Colorado State will play Murray State. Colorado State is where Colton Iverson, the former Gophers center, landed after he left Minnesota. And even though he sat out the season because of the transfer rule and has one year of eligibility remaining, he told the Star Tribune last week: "I just felt I had more to offer a program."

In Albuquerque, N.M., on Thursday, the Jackrabbits of South Dakota State will face Baylor. The Jackrabbits are a No. 14 seed, but Baylor, despite its size, is erratic, and Wolters, the Jackrabbits guard, has faced long odds before. He handled the ball in St. Cloud Tech's stalling offense in the Class 4A semifinals in 2009 against White's remarkably talented Hopkins team. He finished with a game-high 17 points and had Tech within one point at halftime before Hopkins, the eventual champion, ran away in the second half.

Wolters leads the Jackrabbits in scoring (21.3), rebounding (5.2), assists (6.0) and free-throw percentage (78.6). The kid is a star, and it would be redundant and perhaps cruel at this point to note that he is a Minnesotan who could have helped the Gophers.

On Thursday in Portland, former Gophers coach Dan Monson will coach Long Beach State against New Mexico and Lobos coach Steve Alford, another Big Ten alum. Monson won big at Gonzaga. He never seemed comfortable at Minnesota but did run a clean program in the wake of Clem Haskins' embarrassing gaffes, and took a limited team to the NCAA tournament in 2005. He has built a winner from nothing in Long Beach.

Minnesota's inability to become one of the best 68 teams in the country for a second consecutive season is not only embarrassing, it's revealing. The committee downgraded a 30-win team from Missouri from a potential No. 1 seed to the eighth overall seed in the tournament because of Missouri's weak nonconference schedule.

The Gophers this season played Bucknell, Fairfield, Mount St. Mary's, Appalachian State and St. Peter's. Smith tried to schedule either Cretin or Derham Hall but did not want to take on both at the same time.

The NCAA tournament proves Minnesota produces great basketball. You just need to leave Minnesota, or purchase an excellent satellite dish, to see it.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/142276375.html

Go Gophers!!

CentralGopher · Mar 13, 2012

Soupcan's lack of basketball knowledge and writing skills is not only embarrassing, it's revealing.

savagerube · Mar 13, 2012

BleedGopher said:
Not worth clicking, but for those that care:

Stars come out once they get out

You might have thought it was a rough weekend for local basketball, what with Ricky Rubio hurting his knee and the Gophers again stubbing their toes, but on Sunday we were reminded that Minnesota is, indeed, as the Wild's marketing team always argues, "The State of Basketball."

The NCAA tournament bracket proves it. Whether you prefer a Mayor or killer Jackrabbits, those who fled or he who was dismissed, every Minnesotan who loves the game can find someone to care about in a 68-team bracket that treated the Gophers the way Randy Moss treats caterers.

How would you like to watch a Minnesota team coached by Fred Hoiberg and featuring Justin Cobbs at the point, Nate Wolters at shooting guard and Royce White at forward?

You'll get to see them all in the NCAA tournament, if not together on the same court or wearing the same school colors.

Sunday afternoon, the NCAA selection committee revealed its field, turning college basketball into the only sport that argues about who's No. 69. The committee's seedings led to CBS' Greg Anthony raving about Wolters and ESPN's Digger Phelps praising White.

In our provincial state, this means the NCAA tournament is all about us, even if our only Division I basketball program has trouble making the NIT.

On Wednesday, California will face South Florida in a play-in game. Cal features Cobbs, the former Gopher, whose season highlight might have been his high-scoring duel with Oregon's Devoe Joseph, another former Gopher who might have been useful to Tubby Smith this season.

On Thursday, Hoiberg, the classy former Timberwolves player and executive, will coach Iowa State against defending champion Connecticut in Louisville, Ky. Hoiberg took a chance on another former Gopher, White, who has thrived in Ames this season.

Also on Thursday in Louisville, Colorado State will play Murray State. Colorado State is where Colton Iverson, the former Gophers center, landed after he left Minnesota. And even though he sat out the season because of the transfer rule and has one year of eligibility remaining, he told the Star Tribune last week: "I just felt I had more to offer a program."

In Albuquerque, N.M., on Thursday, the Jackrabbits of South Dakota State will face Baylor. The Jackrabbits are a No. 14 seed, but Baylor, despite its size, is erratic, and Wolters, the Jackrabbits guard, has faced long odds before. He handled the ball in St. Cloud Tech's stalling offense in the Class 4A semifinals in 2009 against White's remarkably talented Hopkins team. He finished with a game-high 17 points and had Tech within one point at halftime before Hopkins, the eventual champion, ran away in the second half.

Wolters leads the Jackrabbits in scoring (21.3), rebounding (5.2), assists (6.0) and free-throw percentage (78.6). The kid is a star, and it would be redundant and perhaps cruel at this point to note that he is a Minnesotan who could have helped the Gophers.

On Thursday in Portland, former Gophers coach Dan Monson will coach Long Beach State against New Mexico and Lobos coach Steve Alford, another Big Ten alum. Monson won big at Gonzaga. He never seemed comfortable at Minnesota but did run a clean program in the wake of Clem Haskins' embarrassing gaffes, and took a limited team to the NCAA tournament in 2005. He has built a winner from nothing in Long Beach.

Minnesota's inability to become one of the best 68 teams in the country for a second consecutive season is not only embarrassing, it's revealing. The committee downgraded a 30-win team from Missouri from a potential No. 1 seed to the eighth overall seed in the tournament because of Missouri's weak nonconference schedule.

The Gophers this season played Bucknell, Fairfield, Mount St. Mary's, Appalachian State and St. Peter's. Smith tried to schedule either Cretin or Derham Hall but did not want to take on both at the same time.

The NCAA tournament proves Minnesota produces great basketball. You just need to leave Minnesota, or purchase an excellent satellite dish, to see it.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/142276375.html

Go Gophers!!

Didn't Long Beach State go the dance the year before Monson arrived on campus?

minngg · Mar 13, 2012

CentralGopher said:
Soupcan's lack of basketball knowledge and writing skills is not only embarrassing, it's revealing.

What points are inaccurate? Seems to me he hit the nail on the head. The truth is a hard pill to swallow sometimes.

Deleted_User · Mar 13, 2012

Whether or not Souhan can write is immaterial to what he clearly argues -- that the team would have been better if all these players remained: Colton Iverson, Royce White, Devoe Joseph, and Justin Cobbs. They are all upper upperclassmen and highly experienced players. What we lacked this year are upperclassmen, and for some reason, many want to give Tubby Smith a pass for losing all these players. People do not leave places where they are treated with respect, that is a well known and well researched fact in so many areas of life, it is not worth arguing against. There are mountains of data. Obviously, with White, there were legal issues. But, somebody took him under his wing and is getting some results from him. Could we not have approached all these players as individuals and found ways to address them as men with mercy and justice? If we did, how would that effect the team and would the season be different as a result. I think it would have been considerably different.

My primary problem with Coach Smith is that there was a lack of reconciliation with all these students. Great coaches know that discipline is a virtue not to be taken lightly. Yet, they also know that being merciful, having compassion, and trying to move the student to reconcile with the team and coaching staff are part of becoming a man of character. Somehow, our school could not meet the needs of these students and that is concerning to me as it puts the U in a bad light. This is one of the cudgels other recruiters will use against the U in a conversation -- see all the players who have left Tubby. They will point to the fact that these kids are doing just fine at their current schools and they are succeeding in basketball without coach Smith.

I don't care what personal opinion of Souhan others suggest as being true. Souhan asserts that we had great players on the team that have resigned and moved on to places that welcomed them and allowed them to flourish. I don't think it is helpful to speak derisively of these players or Souhan. For the sake of argument, it is okay to question the performance of a coach who lost these players and could not find it possible to retain them. Why? I think it is likely that they found their personal relationship to with the coach to be strained and unresolved. We are not looking for saints on the team. We look for students who can do well as students, play the game well enough to win, and can develop good character as men. Apparently, many on GH find that some of these players could never fit in here. That seems too convenient of a justification as to why 5 good players left the program. 5 is a large number on a team to leave in such a short period of time. What is certain is that Tubby Smith was the coach at the helm at the time they left.

dpodoll68 · Mar 13, 2012

minngg said:
What points are inaccurate?

As already stated, he never "built a winner from nothing" at LBSU. They went to the tournament the year before he was hired as the #1 seed in the conference, and were the #3 seed in the conference the year before that. Basically, he has them back to where they were before he was hired. How is that "building a winner from nothing"?

I'm also quite certain that Tubby didn't try to schedule any high school teams for this season.

CentralGopher · Mar 13, 2012

minngg said:
What points are inaccurate? Seems to me he hit the nail on the head. The truth is a hard pill to swallow sometimes.

The headline in particular was inaccurate since he exposed nothing that was embarassing or revealing. Also inaccurate was that he stated smith tried to schedule cretin or durham hall but didn't want to play both. He spend the majority of the artical talking about other basketball teams and has shown in the past to have absolutely zero basketball knowledge and I would venture to say that's why he spent so little time actually writing about the gophers in this article. The article seemed to miss the nail all together to me.

Bad Gopher · Mar 13, 2012

Dean S said:
Whether or not Souhan can write is immaterial to what he clearly argues -- that the team would have been better if all these players remained: Colton Iverson, Royce White, Devoe Joseph, and Justin Cobbs. They are all upper upperclassmen and highly experienced players. What we lacked this year are upperclassmen, and for some reason, many want to give Tubby Smith a pass for losing all these players. People do not leave places where they are treated with respect, that is a well known and well researched fact in so many areas of life, it is not worth arguing against. There are mountains of data. Obviously, with White, there were legal issues. But, somebody took him under his wing and is getting some results from him. Could we not have approached all these players as individuals and found ways to address them as men with mercy and justice? If we did, how would that effect the team and would the season be different as a result. I think it would have been considerably different.

My primary problem with Coach Smith is that there was a lack of reconciliation with all these students. Great coaches know that discipline is a virtue not to be taken lightly. Yet, they also know that being merciful, having compassion, and trying to move the student to reconcile with the team and coaching staff are part of becoming a man of character. Somehow, our school could not meet the needs of these students and that is concerning to me as it puts the U in a bad light. This is one of the cudgels other recruiters will use against the U in a conversation -- see all the players who have left Tubby. They will point to the fact that these kids are doing just fine at their current schools and they are succeeding in basketball without coach Smith.

I don't care what personal opinion of Souhan others suggest as being true. Souhan asserts that we had great players on the team that have resigned and moved on to places that welcomed them and allowed them to flourish. I don't think it is helpful to speak derisively of these players or Souhan. For the sake of argument, it is okay to question the performance of a coach who lost these players and could not find it possible to retain them. Why? I think it is likely that they found their personal relationship to with the coach to be strained and unresolved. We are not looking for saints on the team. We look for students who can do well as students, play the game well enough to win, and can develop good character as men. Apparently, many on GH find that some of these players could never fit in here. That seems too convenient of a justification as to why 5 good players left the program. 5 is a large number on a team to leave in such a short period of time. What is certain is that Tubby Smith was the coach at the helm at the time they left.

Great post. The concerns Dean raises are things that continue to make me uneasy as well. There's losing five players, and then there's losing players that go on to flourish elsewhere. One or two players suggests issues of "fit;" five suggests an environment that's not conducive to growth and success.

The other thing that continues to nag me is the idea that disgruntled former players begins with disgruntled current players. I hope we don't lose any other good players, but I'll believe that when I see it.

GopherinPhilly · Mar 13, 2012

I love how Cobb was Mav before Mav came here...and now he is the new Steve Nash, Royce never played for MN...he was suspended the entire time he was here and he left after embarrassing himself with stupid videos and ill-timed press conferences. Colton was the second best center on this team until Mo showed up...then he was third and he knew it. In the three years he did play here...how much did he grow his game, add an offensive move, learn how to defend without fouling? Devoe was suspended, benched and great during his time here...and the left because he didn't like the team rules and being held accountable.

Ogee Ogilthorpe · Mar 13, 2012

Looks like Souhan finally got his copy of the SI Swim Suit Edition in the mail and was reminded it was time to write an article about the Gophers and the NCAA Tournament. I wonder if he would even know the Tourney was about to start otherwise?

jmag21 · Mar 13, 2012

Ah, Jim Souhan. No talent, no insight, no humility, no likeability. It makes you wonder what it takes to get a job at a sports page in town. Somebody must like him, but for what reason? The imagination boggles.

Dr.Don · Mar 13, 2012

I would like to buy Souhan for what he is worth, sell him for what he thinks he is worth, and I will enjoy retirement as a wealthy man.

WilliamsArenaGuy · Mar 13, 2012

CentralGopher said:
Soupcan's lack of basketball knowledge and writing skills is not only embarrassing, it's revealing.

These comments are great. Souhan would be completely worthless if he didn't provide such good material for jokes.

THE SCOUT! · Mar 13, 2012

Souhan and patty are reasons why the star had to lay off so many employees

Moonlight · Mar 13, 2012

Bad Gopher said:
Great post. The concerns Dean raises are things that continue to make me uneasy as well. There's losing five players, and then there's losing players that go on to flourish elsewhere. One or two players suggests issues of "fit;" five suggests an environment that's not conducive to growth and success.

The other thing that continues to nag me is the idea that disgruntled former players begins with disgruntled current players. I hope we don't lose any other good players, but I'll believe that when I see it.

Dean & Bad - great posts.
What is irritating to me is the snarky tone that apparently is required to write for a rag. Many will discount Souhan because he is irritating and makes his point in a way that doesn't pay much respect to those involved - but hey that's the tone everywhere these days.
On the other hand - Dean took the same set of facts and wrote a post that was clear and fair - nicely done!

tap · Mar 13, 2012

GopherinPhilly said:
I love how Cobb was Mav before Mav came here...and now he is the new Steve Nash, Royce never played for MN...he was suspended the entire time he was here and he left after embarrassing himself with stupid videos and ill-timed press conferences. Colton was the second best center on this team until Mo showed up...then he was third and he knew it. In the three years he did play here...how much did he grow his game, add an offensive move, learn how to defend without fouling? Devoe was suspended, benched and great during his time here...and the left because he didn't like the team rules and being held accountable.

Totally agree.

I only saw Wolters play in the last game to get into the NCAA, but was not impresed. He didn't seem to have an outside shot and drove to the basket all the time and threw up some pretty wild shots. I'm sure he is better than that, but if that is his game I don't see how he could have put up those numbers in the BIG.

howieramone · Mar 13, 2012

GopherinPhilly said:
I love how Cobb was Mav before Mav came here...and now he is the new Steve Nash, Royce never played for MN...he was suspended the entire time he was here and he left after embarrassing himself with stupid videos and ill-timed press conferences. Colton was the second best center on this team until Mo showed up...then he was third and he knew it. In the three years he did play here...how much did he grow his game, add an offensive move, learn how to defend without fouling? Devoe was suspended, benched and great during his time here...and the left because he didn't like the team rules and being held accountable.

+1

Least no one suggested we retire their jerseys and hang them on the wall.

Bad Gopher · Mar 13, 2012

Moonlight said:
Dean & Bad - great posts.
What is irritating to me is the snarky tone that apparently is required to write for a rag. Many will discount Souhan because he is irritating and makes his point in a way that doesn't pay much respect to those involved - but hey that's the tone everywhere these days.
On the other hand - Dean took the same set of facts and wrote a post that was clear and fair - nicely done!

As I read Dean's post, I wondered why we can't get newspaper columns of this caliber.

zambam · Mar 13, 2012

Bad Gopher said:
As I read Dean's post, I wondered why we can't get newspaper columns of this caliber.

Because writers with actual skill don't write for newspapers.

minngg · Mar 13, 2012

tap said:
Totally agree.

I only saw Wolters play in the last game to get into the NCAA, but was not impresed. He didn't seem to have an outside shot and drove to the basket all the time and threw up some pretty wild shots. I'm sure he is better than that, but if that is his game I don't see how he could have put up those numbers in the BIG.

If you only saw one game, just disqualify yourself. There are plenty of fans that have watched him all season with better analysis.

Parski1 · Mar 13, 2012

minngg said:
If you only saw one game, just disqualify yourself. There are plenty of fans that have watched him all season with better analysis.

Blah Blah Blah...I hate Tubby....Blah Blah

minngg · Mar 13, 2012

Parski1 said:
Blah Blah Blah...I hate Tubby....Blah Blah

See no evil, hear no evil...Go Tubby!!!

bemidjigopher · Mar 13, 2012

If Wolters was so good and the gophers are so bad one would think they would've beaten the gophers in one of his four years. Cobbs was third string when he was here, he'd be starting now since Devoe left, but if both were still here Cobbs would probably be coming off the bench, slso know Welch and Mav which at that point I could live with. I'm not sure what Devoe did, but if you break team rules than you should be held accountable, I don't know why people think it should be any different. It's too bad, would've fun to see him and Dre in the backcourt. Iverson know that EE was emerging and left, I remember Tubby saying it would solve a problem dividing minutes that EE was starting to earn. Royce White, well not much needs to be said there. I feel like rince, cycle and repeat when it comes to this subject it is what it is. People transfer, people get hurt, we've just been hammered with those two things the last three years, but I think we have a group that will stick it out. Time will tell, hopfully were not having this convo next year

FanSinceTheFifties · Mar 13, 2012

Yeah, how could Wolters possibly be any good -- coming from an outstate Minnesota high school and all?

Minnesconsin fan · Mar 13, 2012

minngg said:
If you only saw one game, just disqualify yourself. There are plenty of fans that have watched him all season with better analysis.

I saw two of his games this year and I was not impressed either- so I am disqualified also.

THE SCOUT! · Mar 13, 2012

Lets see a a player averages 21pts,5 boards, 6 assissts, 1.7 steals,2.8 to one turnover ratio. His team as a RPI of 49 so it take a complete moron to figure he would not be a excellent player or a 6-12 team with a RPI of 90

zambam · Mar 13, 2012

THE SCOUT! said:
Lets see a a player averages 21pts,5 boards, 6 assissts, 1.7 steals,2.8 to one turnover ratio. His team as a RPI of 49 so it take a complete moron to figure he would not be a excellent player or a 6-12 team with a RPI of 90

This isn't the argument though. If he were on the team for just this year he would've been great. The argument is that if he had played for the Gophers originally he would not have experienced the same development for the obvious reason of not playing nearly as much.

bemidjigopher · Mar 13, 2012

Wolters is a good player, but he would not have gotten the minutes he got at SDSU at the U, espacilly his frosh year, he would've solidly been in the rotation , possibly been a starter by now, but I think the Hollins' are better players and Coleman has a higher upside, put Dre on the Jack Rabbits and you would be hearing all about him on espn on selection sunday and he's only a frosh

THE SCOUT! · Mar 13, 2012

rpi factors in competition played. The gophs dont play roads games at NDSU and SDSU for more than just financial reasons. Factoring 6pt home court advantage the gophs pick up 12 pts playing these teams exclusively at Williams. if dre was so good right now he would have played more and put up numbers for a 90 rpi team. Nate put up the numbers under intense defensive scrutiny. Dre was not focal point of defenses like Nate is.

Bob_Loblaw · Mar 13, 2012

bemidjigopher said:
If Wolters was so good and the gophers are so bad one would think they would've beaten the gophers in one of his four years. Cobbs was third string when he was here, he'd be starting now since Devoe left, but if both were still here Cobbs would probably be coming off the bench, slso know Welch and Mav which at that point I could live with. I'm not sure what Devoe did, but if you break team rules than you should be held accountable, I don't know why people think it should be any different. It's too bad, would've fun to see him and Dre in the backcourt. Iverson know that EE was emerging and left, I remember Tubby saying it would solve a problem dividing minutes that EE was starting to earn. Royce White, well not much needs to be said there. I feel like rince, cycle and repeat when it comes to this subject it is what it is. People transfer, people get hurt, we've just been hammered with those two things the last three years, but I think we have a group that will stick it out. Time will tell, hopfully were not having this convo next year

Cobb and Joseph would have been our starting backcourt.

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