Souhan column: Just ask Kill to run a program that steers clear of the NCAA

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Sorry, I can't do it. I refuse to give that troll clicks.
 

Formo said:
Sorry, I can't do it. I refuse to give that troll clicks.
Click to expand...

Wise decision. I regret reading that stupid article! 5 minutes of my life I will never get back. Basically, we should adjust our expectations of success for Kill to the Mason era of mid-tier bowl games. Otherwise, Kill and his coaches must be cheating like many other programs in the country. He ends his article by saying that the closest the Gophs will get to the Rose Bowl is this weekend when they play USC! What a freakin' butthead!!! :mad:

I will now follow suit with you, Formo, and do what my gut told me to do before I clicked on that link...never read another article by that fool again!
 

F Souhan, the definition of success is obvious: competing for Big Ten titles and winning them occasionally. Unless he is alleging that their is widespread cheating at Iowa and Wisconsin, then I won't bother actually reading his crap.
 

One more point, if hendo59's summary of the article is accurate, in what other state would this type of BS be allowed in the paper? This would NEVER be published in the Des Moines Register, NEVER. I can't believe some of the stuff that is said, written, etc about almost all Minnesota sports teams (not just the Gophers) by the local media. I used to read the Strib and the Pioneer Press sports sections online almost every morning (or late night), but now might check out one or the other once a week or so. We don't even get unbiased, detached reporting/commentating on the Gophers, we get sarcastic, snarky, cheapshots at the university. It would be nice to have at least one columnist in town who you honestly felt would be happy to see the Gophers succeed.

The great thing about the GopherHole is that we really don't have to rely on the standard media sources to provide information.
 


Really a class act by Souhan; on the eve of the opener and pretty much gutting Phil Miller's recap
 

Is someone willing to hold their breath and cut and paste it on here?
 

Souhan was a good twins beat writer. He's a terrible columnist. It's one of those promotional situations where success doesn't necessarily translate as they are different skill sets. On top of that, sadly, sports columnists in the metro area seem to think it's their job only to bash local teams (other than the Twins).
 

That article is one of the reasons Gopher football has not had a lot of success over the decades. Some of the media is a little full of themselves and better than thou. Good media will be critical and not afraid to point out problems. That article was uncalled for on so many levels. Kind of sad.
 



It's difficult to run into a Twin Cities sports fan these days without hearing the following sentiment repeated as if read off a cue card: "I like that Jerry Kill. I think we got the right guy."

The fans with whom I've spoken believe Kill will win at the University of Minnesota.

I beg fans to do Kill a big favor and not give him too much credit.

If he returns the Gophers to the glory days when Glen Mason was bringing home gift guitars from the Music City Bowl, Kill will have done fine work.

In fact, predicting that a coach can win big in big-time college football is almost the same as accusing him of cheating.

Look at the college football landscape these days. It's hard to read a story without seeing mention of illicit tattoos and prostitutes. Many of the Top 25 teams put the "win" in "swindle."

According to USA Today, only four of the 65 programs in BCS conferences, plus Notre Dame, can say that they have never been sanctioned by the NCAA: Boston College, Northwestern, Penn State and Stanford. And Northwestern and Boston College have dealt with point-shaving scandals.

Stanford is ranked sixth in the preseason NCAA polls, but the Cardinal can't be considered a realistic role model for the Gophers. Stanford is the best combination of elite academics, competitive athletics and beautiful setting in America. The Stanford football team is enjoying a run of success now because Andrew Luck, the best quarterback in the land, wanted to get a degree in Palo Alto.

Even those of us who value the University of Minnesota as a fine school in a dynamic setting know that the Gophers will never have a chance to land someone like Luck, a top recruit and valedictorian at a Texas high school.

Neither is Penn State a realistic model. Penn State is the dominant program in a state known as a football hotbed, one with a legendary coach, exceptional facilities and the ability to dominate an entire region for decades at a time.

If you want to believe the Gophers can win big without cheating, you must compare them, then, to Boston College and Northwestern. BC and Northwestern, like Minnesota, are good schools in urban settings that compete for the discretionary sports dollar with professional teams. Northwestern and Boston College dream of cracking the Top 25, not rising to the top of it. So should the Gophers.

If you really like Kill, ask him to run a competitive program that stays clear of NCAA investigators. If you expect Minnesota to become a fixture in the top 10, you should also expect to find at some future date that a Minnesota version of Nevin Shapiro has been restaging "Caligula" with a bunch of Gophers players on Lake Minnetonka.

Consider the two NCAA revenue sports that are constantly marred by scandal: men's basketball and football.

The Gophers have been competing in men's basketball since 1895. They have reached one Final Four, in 1997. The NCAA wiped away that appearance because of academic fraud at the U.

The Gophers have won six national titles in football, most recently in 1960, when Murray Warmath took advantage of a largely segregated sport by recruiting elite black players to Minnesota. Lacking that advantage, Minnesota has not won even a Big Ten football title since 1967.

While Gophers fans dream of potentially unobtainable titles, they would be wiser to fear the worst. Two ambitious college football programs based in urban settings provide cautionary tales. Arizona State, just outside of Phoenix, leads all BCS schools with nine NCAA penalties, and SMU, based in Dallas, remains the only college football program to receive the NCAA's death penalty.

So if you want Kill to succeed, choose carefully your definition of success. If you want him to play by the rules, you shouldn't expect to see him coming any closer to the Rose Bowl than he will on Saturday, when his Gophers play USC at Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

I now must go wash the hand I used to click on that link. The point that really gets me fired up is when he links the 1960 teams success with going outside the lines and bringing black players onto the team and compares that with the cheating that is going on today. What a POS.
 

My favorite part is how, in the comments, someone says that winning a Big Ten championship is now harder because of the conference championship game. Again, a lot of people don't understand basic math.
 

Not reading his article. Agree with the posts about him. Somehow the writer think its cool to be negative.
 

I'm typically not one of those who call for the tarring and feathering of the local columnists, but this was a rather dumb article.

I don't think anybody expects us to become Ohio State and rattle off long streaks. But the fact is that in the last 20 years, Northwestern, Iowa, Wisconsin, Purdue and Illinois have all made the rose bowl, and they don't have reputations as "dirty" programs. Imagine how far it would have gone to alleviate some of this program's image problems if we could have gone to the Rose Bowl once in the last 20 years. It's not like it was impossible.

The worst part about this article is that you could have written a column like this from an angle that wasn't hostile, hopeless and asinine.
 




Sorry, I just had to reiterate my point from my first post above in case any of you were confused by it. Souhan is a fool! I'm still irritated that I read that article. SMH...
 

From the sounds of it, it's a typical Souhan 'story'.
 



Just ask Kill to run a program that steers clear of Souhan.

Kaler gets what he has to do to help… and he could have been doing a lot of other things…

http://www.minnpost.com/politicalag...y_third_parade_for_new_u_of_m_president_kaler

It is easy to be negative or cynical, but the combo of Killer and Kaler is different than in years past. Embracing Minnesota and getting some of the best kids to stay here to play for the U of M is a great start. Kill says football is football … he knows what to do if history is any indication.

Funny how some cannot let Kill have a full season:horse:
 

He sets himself up nicely to play both sides of the fence. If Kill indeed does "returns the Gophers to the glory days when Glen Mason..." [facepalm] he can rip on the team, the players, and Kill for not getting to the Rose Bowl. If they do get to the Rose Bowl, he can insinuate that there must be cheating going on, otherwise how could he get there?

It's a totally asinine stance to say that because team "X" had faced NCAA sanctions at any point in the past, that any current success must be due to cheating.

At any rate, I truly don't believe that Sh!tcan even cares about what he writes, just as long as he generates clicks. And that is specifically why I don't give him any clicks.
 

Verdict is in

Souhan is a little turdlette. Not even big enough to be a full sized s#!t.
 

Great piece by Souhan!

And, may I add:

1. Graduate ever increasing numbers of student athletes.
2. Run a completely clean and honest program.
3. Every Big Ten win is worth it's weight in gold and is the
only prize that matters.

; 0 )


Now, on to the piece by Mr. Souhan that some of you want to bash...

Souhan is right on the money about college football and college basketball.

It is MORE difficult to win the Big Ten Championship in 2011 than it ever has been.

Appreciate any and EVERY Big Ten win that Coach Kill can achieve. He needs at least ONE Big Ten win in this first season. It would be disasterous for him to go 0-8 in Big Ten play in 2011 or any year. I am thinking that it MAY be possible for him to achieve 2 or even 3 Big Ten wins in 2011 if the team has really bought into his system. That would be an incredible job of coaching by Coach Kill and his staff.

Beating NDSU handily is also essential in 2011.

Haven't you people been reading about the top-dog programs and all their problems with the NCAA? USC... Ohio State...Oregon...Auburn...Miama Fl...
It is really UGLY people. Souhan is right on the money.

ps: I don't think Souhan was implying that the 1960 NC came about by cheating. However, the circumstances that brought iowa, wisky and Minnesota to the topor very near the top of the Big Ten in 1956, 1957, 1958,1959, 1960, 1961 and 1962 had a LOT to do with the fact that southern college football tended to not offer scholarships to great African-American athletes who resided in their states. iowas, wisky and Minnesota recruited some of these players and all three programs did very well in the Big Ten as a result. Those circumstances, fortunately no longer exist.

You people can try to dis Souhan, but, he has MANY excellent points in this piece and has in previous pieces as well. Just go ahead and try to pig-pile on him but, his work has much more credibility than the mob-jobs some of you try to paint this site with.

Differing opinions are good for this site. Contrasting opinions are always good and healthy on a site such as GOPHER HOLE.

Strong work Souhan! Well done. You have lanced a boil that needs lancing from time to time. Mob-speak does NOT rule on this site as long as contrast is presented within the discussions here. I look forward to reading Mr. Souhan's next piece on Gopher Football... College football is troubled. The NCAA is the organization of the college prexys...run by the college prexys and directed by the college prexys. They have turned blind eyes for entirely too long because the money trickled down from the top dogs to the have-nots. Finally, they are bringing down the hammer on their golden, sacred cow, top-money producing and popularity driving winner top dog programs. It is either that or totally lose control and watch the sacred cow programs form their own super organization and exclude the more mortal programs and institutions. Then the "haves" will really leave all the "have nots" behind. To the victors go the spoils...unless the NCAA gets control of the stiuation. The NCAA may be doing too little entirely too late anyway...but...they are finally trying to bring the hammer down...

So Souhan IS correct: the big winners HAVE been cheating and are as guilty as sin. That's just the way it has been. And some of you people try to dis Souhan just because he has the fortitude to speak the truth? Shame on you...

; 0 )
 

Winning games in college football while breaking the rules, even minor ones, is not winning. I would not trade any of our low tier bowls for a BCS game if it included getting sanctioned for that season later on, if you have no integrity you have nothing.
 

imthewalrus said:
And, may I add:

1. Graduate ever increasing numbers of student athletes.
2. Run a completely clean and honest program.
3. Every Big Ten win is worth it's weight in gold and is the
only prize that matters.

; 0 )


Now, on to the piece by Mr. Souhan that some of you want to bash...

Souhan is right on the money about college football and college basketball.

It is MORE difficult to win the Big Ten Championship in 2011 than it ever has been.

Appreciate any and EVERY Big Ten win that Coach Kill can achieve. He needs at least ONE Big Ten win in this first season. It would be disasterous for him to go 0-8 in Big Ten play in 2011 or any year. I am thinking that it MAY be possible for him to achieve 2 or even 3 Big Ten wins in 2011 if the team has really bought into his system. That would be an incredible job of coaching by Coach Kill and his staff.

Beating NDSU handily is also essential in 2011.

Haven't you people been reading about the top-dog programs and all their problems with the NCAA? USC... Ohio State...Oregon...Auburn...Miama Fl...
It is really UGLY people. Souhan is right on the money.

ps: I don't think Souhan was implying that the 1960 NC came about by cheating. However, the circumstances that brought iowa, wisky and Minnesota to the topor very near the top of the Big Ten in 1956, 1957, 1958,1959, 1960, 1961 and 1962 had a LOT to do with the fact that southern college football tended to not offer scholarships to great African-American athletes who resided in their states. iowas, wisky and Minnesota recruited some of these players and all three programs did very well in the Big Ten as a result. Those circumstances, fortunately no longer exist.

You people can try to dis Souhan, but, he has MANY excellent points in this piece and has in previous pieces as well. Just go ahead and try to pig-pile on him but, his work has much more credibility than the mob-jobs some of you try to paint this site with.

Differing opinions are good for this site. Contrasting opinions are always good and healthy on a site such as GOPHER HOLE.

Strong work Souhan! Well done. You have lanced a boil that needs lancing from time to time. Mob-speak does NOT rule on this site as long as contrast is presented within the discussions here. I look forward to reading Mr. Souhan's next piece on Gopher Football... College football is troubled. The NCAA is the organization of the college prexys...run by the college prexys and directed by the college prexys. They have turned blind eyes for entirely too long because the money trickled down from the top dogs to the have-nots. Finally, they are bringing down the hammer on their golden, sacred cow, top-money producing and popularity driving winner top dog programs. It is either that or totally lose control and watch the sacred cow programs form their own super organization and exclude the more mortal programs and institutions. Then the "haves" will really leave all the "have nots" behind. To the victors go the spoils...unless the NCAA gets control of the stiuation. The NCAA may be doing too little entirely too late anyway...but...they are finally trying to bring the hammer down...

So Souhan IS correct: the big winners HAVE been cheating and are as guilty as sin. That's just the way it has been. And some of you people try to dis Souhan just because he has the fortitude to speak the truth? Shame on you...

; 0 )
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No offense meant here walrus, but I believe you are missing the point of what at least some of us are upset about. No one on this site would disagree (I believe) with Souhan on the fact that cheating is rampant in college football, and that many of the successful programs have achieved their success through less than reputable dealings. Further, few would disagree with you that the ncaa has often turned a blind eye due to $$$. However, to imply that fans should feel like Kill and Co are a success by staying clean and attaining mediocrity, and especially to assert that the closest the Gophs will ever get to the Rose Bowl is this week playing USC, is ridiculous. I doubt many on this board believe that the Gophs will ever be perrenially in the Top 10, but we do expect, and I believe realisitically, that if Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa, Purdue, Illinois, and Michigan St. can go to the Rose Bowl occasionally, then we should be able to as well. Being continually competitive is certainly attainable, as you suggest, but there is no reason not to believe that if non-BCS schools like Boise, Utah (before joining the Pac), and TCU can get to BCS games, the Gophs can do it, at least occasionally, as well.

Personally, I believe Kill and Co will surpass the moderate success of the Mason tenure if they are supported properly by the university's administration, and I see no reason to believe that we can't achieve the type of success our two most hated rivals have had over the past two decades, who didn't build their programs on the backs of big-time recruits and face many recruiting disadvantages themselves. Further, to ask passionate fans to desire 4-4 and 5-3 B1G so we can go to Phoenix or Chicago during the Bowl season every year is asking us to take our dreams for our team and replace them with dreams of a clean program that will never win a meaningful title again. This, my friend, is the type of attitude that keeps programs mired in mediocrity. The biggest hindrance to achieving dreams is the belief that they cannot be attained. Personally, I find it hard to believe that is what you are asking us to do. We have a right to dream, as well as a right to believe that this, or any other quality coaching staff, can raise us to new heights. I for one believe this staff can get us to the Rose Bowl, and shame on anyone who tells me to stop dreaming and believing that it is possible. Go Gophs!!!
 


Mason insured that every coach that followed him would be supported...

better than he was by getting the naming rights deal for the stadium and forcing prexy b and bjm to extend his contract at the end of the 2005 season after prexy b and bjm let his contract go unextended for the previous three seasons. So, make NO mistake about it...Coach Kill has the stadium on campus and he should be able to coast on home because of the on campus stadium.

Coach kill will also benefit from the eventual ditching of badger joel macturi. That will be HUGE advantage.

However IFyou don't realize, hendo59 that the addition of Nebraska into the conference more than negates the new on campus stadium and the eventual ditching of badger joel macturi when it comes to the degree of difficulty for winning the Big Ten Championship, you will most likely be sadly disappointed with the outcome.

Nothing is EVER impossible. However, winning a championship in football in the Big Ten with the addition of Nebraska has certainly made things more difficult. It used to be that an iowa or wisky or Northwestern or Illinois could finish with a 6-2 Big Ten record tied with Michigan and Ohio State and another team or two and get to call themselves the Big Ten champion and because they hadn't been to the Rosebowl as recently as the other teams, they could make the trip. With a Big Ten Championship game, the possibiliity of that happening has disappeared. A lower-tiered team can no longer "tie" their way to the Rosebowl Game. And, the addition of Nebraska complicates the whole thing.

However, the addition of Nebraska does make every single Big Ten win even MORE meaningful. Three...four....and especially five Big Ten wins in an 8 Big Ten game schedule need to be at least appreciated for the competetivness that winning that many Big Ten games in a season means.

Always strive for the most Big Ten wins...but...keep things in perspective. I've been cheering for the Gophers for over half a century. I have seen the Gophers achieve two trips to the Rosebowl and a couple ties for the Big Ten Championship during that half century. I always want the Gophers to win the Big Ten Championship...but...IF I could not have seen the value of the years in which the Gophers were competetive within the Big Ten Conference I really don't know IF there would have been a point in remaining a fan. Obviously there is value...worth...meaning and significance in just competing in the Big Ten Conference.

I don't know IF Coach Kill will ever win a Big Ten Championship. I hope he does lead the Gopher Football Program and it's players to at least one championship during his time here at Minnesota. However, I also want to see him restore this program to a competetive position within the Big Ten Conference. Strive for championships...always be competetive. Always be the best that you can be. Realize that each Big Ten win has merit, value and worth. Realize the value of the rivalry. Look at the history. Value rising to the occasion on a given Game Day Saturday.

Souhan poiinted out the fact that most of the current "great" college football programs have been cheating their butts off. That is a fact of life. You can't control opinions that other people may post. All football sites such as GOPHERHOLE need to be filled with contrasting points of view. You said what you think: that's GREAT! Souhan wrote what he wrote: that's GREAT. I said what I think: That's not good? What's not to like when people state their minds, contrast each other and present differing points of view?

Let the good times roll and let diverse opinions be stated. Life is good!

; 0 )
 

imthewalrus said:
better than he was by getting the naming rights deal for the stadium and forcing prexy b and bjm to extend his contract at the end of the 2005 season after prexy b and bjm let his contract go unextended for the previous three seasons. So, make NO mistake about it...Coach Kill has the stadium on campus and he should be able to coast on home because of the on campus stadium.

Coach kill will also benefit from the eventual ditching of badger joel macturi. That will be HUGE advantage.

However IFyou don't realize, hendo59 that the addition of Nebraska into the conference more than negates the new on campus stadium and the eventual ditching of badger joel macturi when it comes to the degree of difficulty for winning the Big Ten Championship, you will most likely be sadly disappointed with the outcome.

Nothing is EVER impossible. However, winning a championship in football in the Big Ten with the addition of Nebraska has certainly made things more difficult. It used to be that an iowa or wisky or Northwestern or Illinois could finish with a 6-2 Big Ten record tied with Michigan and Ohio State and another team or two and get to call themselves the Big Ten champion and because they hadn't been to the Rosebowl as recently as the other teams, they could make the trip. With a Big Ten Championship game, the possibiliity of that happening has disappeared. A lower-tiered team can no longer "tie" their way to the Rosebowl Game. And, the addition of Nebraska complicates the whole thing.

However, the addition of Nebraska does make every single Big Ten win even MORE meaningful. Three...four....and especially five Big Ten wins in an 8 Big Ten game schedule need to be at least appreciated for the competetivness that winning that many Big Ten games in a season means.

Always strive for the most Big Ten wins...but...keep things in perspective. I've been cheering for the Gophers for over half a century. I have seen the Gophers achieve two trips to the Rosebowl and a couple ties for the Big Ten Championship during that half century. I always want the Gophers to win the Big Ten Championship...but...IF I could not have seen the value of the years in which the Gophers were competetive within the Big Ten Conference I really don't know IF there would have been a point in remaining a fan. Obviously there is value...worth...meaning and significance in just competing in the Big Ten Conference.

I don't know IF Coach Kill will ever win a Big Ten Championship. I hope he does lead the Gopher Football Program and it's players to at least one championship during his time here at Minnesota. However, I also want to see him restore this program to a competetive position within the Big Ten Conference. Strive for championships...always be competetive. Always be the best that you can be. Realize that each Big Ten win has merit, value and worth. Realize the value of the rivalry. Look at the history. Value rising to the occasion on a given Game Day Saturday.

Souhan poiinted out the fact that most of the current "great" college football programs have been cheating their butts off. That is a fact of life. You can't control opinions that other people may post. All football sites such as GOPHERHOLE need to be filled with contrasting points of view. You said what you think: that's GREAT! Souhan wrote what he wrote: that's GREAT. I said what I think: That's not good? What's not to like when people state their minds, contrast each other and present differing points of view?

Let the good times roll and let diverse opinions be stated. Life is good!

; 0 )
Click to expand...

So non conference wins trump Big Ten wins? That doesn't make any sense.
 

dixie: You will have to take your plea elsewhere: "...Jesus loves me..." Just remember that "...Casey did waltz with the strawberry blonde...and the BANNED played on..."

Have a little sense of humor once in a while dixie dude or dudette, which ever your case may be...

; 0 )
 

Since I do not have time for a long post, walrus, I will just say that I have been on, played against, and seen too many teams who were not supposed to win or achieve success do so against seemingly better competition to buy in to the fact that the Gophs can't ever win a B1G championship. Certainly the addition of Nebraska makes the B1G tougher, but every conference is difficult to win. That is quite frankly a lame excuse that holds no merit. Certainly every B1G win is important. I never said they weren't. But I refuse to make winning a few B1G games each year the standard of excellence to which the Gophs should strive for. ANd I certainly think our own head coach would vomit at that thought with his competitive streak. The only thing that can prevent us from getting a B1G championship at some point is not getting the necessary support from the university administration. I will simply agree to disagree with you on this and enjoy reading your posts when we win our first B1G title in a few years! That opinion from my meager 25 years as a Gopher fan.
 

Hendo is the ONLY person on GH.com that enjoys reading Wren's posts.

Ban them both.
 

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