So much for that!

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savagerube said:
Wow! I didn't realize that playing for a B1G championship is considered "nothing to play for."
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Nothing to play for in terms of making the tnmt. doofus. Sure the kids want to win the tourney, but you don't really believe that they feel the same urgency knowing they're already in the NCAA?
 

Badger2010 said:
I especially agree with your last paragraph.

I picked the aforementioned teams of OSU MSU and Wisconsin because they are the top 3 teams in the league. I'm sure there are a ton of senior-laden teams at the bottom of the conference as well.

Quick glance at the Big Ten in order of ranking:

OSU: 2 upperclassmen
MSU: 6 upperclassmen
Wisconsin: 7 upperclassmen
Michigan: 6 upperclassmen
Indiana: 9 upperclassmen
Illinois: 5 upperclassmen
Northwestern: 7 upperclassmen
Purdue: 7 upperclassmen
Minnesota: 4 upperclassmen
Iowa: 6 upperclassmen
Nebraska: 11 upperclassmen
PSU: 3 upperclassmen

I don't see much of a connection.

In fact, if you run a correlational analysis between Big Ten wins and number of upperclassmen for each team, you end up with a correlation coefficient of -.15022. For those a bit removed from their last statistics course, correlation coefficients can range between -1 and 1, with numbers greater than 0 indicating a positive correlation and negative number indicating a negative correlation. The closer the coefficient is to 1 or -1, the stronger the connection; a 0 coefficient indicates that there is no correlation at all.

Basically a -.15022 shows that in fact, right now, the more seniors there are on a team in the Big Ten, the less wins the team has. Now, a .15 or a -.15 indicates a very low level of correlation, and with the small sample size there is sure to be a lot of variance, plus some teams have played a game or two more than others, and some teams have had easier schedules, so this certainly isn't without flaw. However, looking at the hastily put together data shown, there is very little correlation at all between a team's experience and a team's wins/success. If anything, you are more likely to lose if you have more upperclassmen.
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At a certain point talent and ability trump experience. And the best coaches win with youth or experience because they have the best ability to coach.
 



SelectionSunday said:
In fairness to Goober (Whathavewedone), the Gophers' nonconference schedule this season is turning out to be more like Tubby's first two seasons (not strong). Currently our nonconference SOS (according to CollegeRPI.com) has fallen to #196 in the country, a big dip from where it was prior to the start of the B1G season. Several opponents have pretty much taken a nosedive. It's killer when the opponents counted on most to provide some SOS pop (Virginia Tech & USC) go into a freefall, and another one expected to be solid (Fairfield) ends up being OK but nothing special.

Tubby's nonconference schedules his first two years were poor (#284 in his 1st season, #187 in his 2nd), however, in his 3rd and 4th seasons they ended up being respectable (#77 and #86). This season's NC sked, unfortunately, appears headed more toward his 2nd season (2008-09).

All that said, Goober chose to deflect attention away from his original point (that the Gophers only have beaten nobodies in November/December) since Tubby took over. That is simply not true. In fact, in his short tenure -- for whatever it's worth -- I'd argue Tubby already easily has won more "meaningful" nonconference games than Clem Haskins and Dan Monson, perhaps even combined. Goober, always check your facts before you use hyperbole.
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I hope this becomes commonplace. No offense, Goober.
 




Whathavewedone said:
Nothing to play for in terms of making the tnmt. doofus. Sure the kids want to win the tourney, but you don't really believe that they feel the same urgency knowing they're already in the NCAA?
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Oh boy.. Goober is getting emotional.
 




Whathavewedone said:
Anyone else see the intellectual bankruptcy in Tubby apologists automatically calling Tubby critics
Kentucky fans. And vice versa in Tubby critics automatically calling defenders Donna?
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It does appear that Tubby is not to be criticized no matter what for his recruiting, play calling, player development,teaching,
etc. After all he is only the Head Coach and in charge of all of those things.
When the Gophers do well, that's a different story of course. Then it is all because of him.

Does that seem fair? Not to me.

Tubby came to Minnesota and was able to bring the Gophers out of the bottom.
He should get credit for that. He deserves it.
However, you can't have it both ways. If he is going to get credit when things go well then
he must be able to take some blame when things go bad.

Of course he has had some bad luck. All teams and coaches suffer with transfers, injuries and players
that just don't seem to play up to their pre college hype.
Its what leaders of teams do when faced with adversity that make them great or not so great.

As for the comment about Kentucky fans.

Just because someone points out a weakness Tubby may have doesn't automatically mean they are a Kentucky fan.
So what if they are? Is something wrong with a Kentucky fan watching Minn.

As fans of the Gophers are you telling me that you NEVER watch another team play?
You NEVER make a comment about Coach K, Tom Crean, Bill Self, etc.?
Should I assume NOBODY on this board watched the Super Bowl nor made A SINGLE comment
about Brady, Manning, the Giants or the Patriots?
Why? After all, the Vikings were not in the game. Why did you bother to watch the game if you did?
You have your own team in the Vikings.

This is my opinion of Tubby.

I really do truly believe that Tubby is a very fine person. Not to sound like FOT, but I have met him and
can tell you from personal experience he is one of the nicest people you could ever hope to meet.
He does good for his community and runs a clean program. He will NOT cheat to get ahead and he
is full of morals and integrity. If you have a son or daughter you would hope to have a man like Tubby
in their life as a mentor.
I really believe that is a fair assessment of Tubby the person.

As a coach. Tubby has been a good coach during his career and has had some great years in the past.
I also thinks it's very fair to say that at this point in his career it appears that his better coaching days
have come and gone. I don't think any fan of the Gophers can honestly say that where the Gophers
are now, especially after last year, is where they expected the Gophers to be when Tubby arrived at
Minn.
 

Dr.Don said:
Don't worry goober, I've been called a lot worse things by a lot better people.
Click to expand...
Come on Doc Don you have admit that being called a "little female orifice" is kind of humorous.
 


nuggett said:
It does appear that Tubby is not to be criticized no matter what for his recruiting, play calling, player development,teaching,
etc. After all he is only the Head Coach and in charge of all of those things.
When the Gophers do well, that's a different story of course. Then it is all because of him.
Click to expand...

I stopped reading after this because its completely false. Virtually everyone here has criticized Tubby and is disappointed in the results we've seen.
 



GophersInIowa said:
I stopped reading after this because its completely false. Virtually everyone here has criticized Tubby and is disappointed in the results we've seen.
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Not me. Good coach with kids making bad decisions and others getting injured.
 

Good coach with kids making bad decisions
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John Calipari has kids playing for him every year, but they are always a top team. It comes down to recruiting top end players and Tubby has recruited one since he has been here and that kid plays for Iowa State.
 

We understand you don't like Tubby. Any way you can stop your whining and go away? Come back when you're old enough to shave.
 


gopherinpain said:
John Calipari has kids playing for him every year, but they are always a top team. It comes down to recruiting top end players and Tubby has recruited one since he has been here and that kid plays for Iowa State.
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Now it all makes sense. You legitimately expect Tubby to recruit like Calipari at Kentucky at Minnesota. News flash, Calipari wouldn't recruit at Minnesota like Calipari does at Kentucky!

You realize UK is one of the most historical programs in CBB, Is a blue blood program with more tradition than most religions? Let me guess, you expected Tubby to sign Austin Rivers too, right?
 


gopherinpain said:
John Calipari has kids playing for him every year, but they are always a top team. It comes down to recruiting top end players and Tubby has recruited one since he has been here and that kid plays for Iowa State.
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You can't even make this stuff up. Preposterous post of the year. Comparing Minnesota and Kentucky recruiting is just ridiculous. On a side note Harrison Barnes was considering Minnesota only because of Tubby Smith. I'm sorry to break to you but there is NO other coach that the U of M could lure in here that would even be able to have a legitimate conversation with the likes of a Harrison Barnes.
 

savagerube said:
What non-conference schedule would you like to see whathavewedone? If I remember right, the Gopher's RPI before B1G games started was #2 or #3 in the conference?
>>>
Looking at RPI before late January is a waste of time. It contains ABSURD
results at first, I guess because the sampling is too small for the computer
formula. Not that the B1G is a world beater this year, but you MUST see
that it's aggregate strength is FAR superior to the non-conference schedule?





I want to know because so far you should be: 1) part of the NCAA selection committee.
>>>>
That would certainly be a plus for teh selection committee



2)Constructing the non-conference schedule yourself.
>>>
rather be part of a search committee for a new coach


3) The next AD so you can hire a "better" coach than Tubby.
>>>
see above


4) Be hated by most on this board. One of these is true. Now it's your turn to ponder this question and figure out which one is factual and which scenarios are preposterous.
Click to expand...
>>>
couldn't care less, but pretty obviously am only hated by the Egyptians on the forum.
AKA you folks hanging out in DeNile( since you seem a little slow maybe I should explain
DeNile/denial, a play on words)
 

savagerube said:
You can't even make this stuff up. Preposterous post of the year. Comparing Minnesota and Kentucky recruiting is just ridiculous. On a side note Harrison Barnes was considering Minnesota only because of Tubby Smith. I'm sorry to break to you but there is NO other coach that the U of M could lure in here that would even be able to have a legitimate conversation with the likes of a Harrison Barnes.
Click to expand...

What alternate universe do you inhabit? Barnes was never considering becoming a Gopher. A school name appearing in a throwaway line about schools under consideration doesn't mean much. And
much as we might hate the way the recruiting game is played nationally, the insiders have steered
top recruits away from Tubby going back to his Kentucky days, precisely because he's viewed as
an OBSTACLE to developing, and to a shot at an early draft pick.
 

Whathavewedone said:
>>>
couldn't care less, but pretty obviously am only hated by the Egyptians on the forum.
AKA you folks hanging out in DeNile( since you seem a little slow maybe I should explain
DeNile/denial, a play on words)
Click to expand...

Man you are hilarious, must be a hit at parties!
 


Reading this thread got me to wondering - how many times have the Gophs finished with a Winning Record in the Big 10 season?

So, I checked:

Tubby - 0 winning records

Dan Munson - 2 winning records

Clem Haskins - 5 seasons with winning B1G records. (yeah, I know - only 1 was official, and the other 4 don't officially count. Well, they count for me. I watched them. I liked them. )

Jim Dutcher - 3 seasons with winning B1G records. (thought it was more - when you consider he had Mychal Thompson, Mc Hale, etc on those teams. FWIW, the team that was ineligible due to violations under Musselman may have been the best team in Gophs history. )

My bottom line - under Tubby, the Gophs have not been terrible, but they have been maddeningly inconsistent - big wins followed by inexplicable losses. And I second the notion that players just don't seem to develop under Tubby. If you compare Tubby's talent to Clem's, I think Clem did more with talent that was equal to (or less than) what Tubby has had. Clem's teams played with fire - Tubby's team's play lukewarm.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I stopped reading after this because its completely false. Virtually everyone here has criticized Tubby and is disappointed in the results we've seen.
Click to expand...

It's by no means completely false. It just leaves out one part. Only those that want Tubby to remain
are allowed to critcize him. Those that see he can't take the program anywhere and want him replaced are routinely SAVAGED.
 

gopherinpain said:
John Calipari has kids playing for him every year, but they are always a top team. It comes down to recruiting top end players and Tubby has recruited one since he has been here and that kid plays for Iowa State.
Click to expand...

No point in going there. Only Kentucky, Carolina and Kansas can get that amount of talent. The point should be that a truly good coach will get good results, and improve players, be they young or veteran.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Reading this thread got me to wondering - how many times have the Gophs finished with a Winning Record in the Big 10 season?

So, I checked:

Tubby - 0 winning records

Dan Munson - 2 winning records

Clem Haskins - 5 seasons with winning B1G records. (yeah, I know - only 1 was official, and the other 4 don't officially count. Well, they count for me. I watched them. I liked them. )

Jim Dutcher - 3 seasons with winning B1G records. (thought it was more - when you consider he had Mychal Thompson, Mc Hale, etc on those teams. FWIW, the team that was ineligible due to violations under Musselman may have been the best team in Gophs history. )

My bottom line - under Tubby, the Gophs have not been terrible, but they have been maddeningly inconsistent - big wins followed by inexplicable losses. And I second the notion that players just don't seem to develop under Tubby. If you compare Tubby's talent to Clem's, I think Clem did more with talent that was equal to (or less than) what Tubby has had. Clem's teams played with fire - Tubby's team's play lukewarm.
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So as long as tubby wins you'd be okay with him cheating? Got it. And yet people bash Calipari on here for the same thing. Whatever works I guess.
 

Dutcher actually had 4 winning seasons in the big ten. But I agree with you that the 24-3 team from 1977 was probably the best the gophers have had.
 

Whathavewedone said:
I've got one line that always slays'em:

Tubby Smith, Hall of Fame coach.
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I don't mind people who come on with criticism for tubby and the development of the team, etc. The purpose of the board is to blog your thoughts. But some come on with comments like the one above just to be a jerk. That is the stuff that gets old. People don't mind honest open debate or discussion....but coming on a team website just to bash and troll is annoying. You know what you are doing....everyone does.
 

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