So I see honest debate isn't an option

[Dr.Don]

Personally, I wasn't looking for a debate. I was simply looking for you to answer the question that I asked on the first page of this thread. As of now, I have not seen an answer.

MRJ: From my life experiences, of which there are numerous, it is damned difficult for a person to answer a question when that person who is asked to answer does not know what the hell he is talking about.

 

[Whathavewedone]

Although, I do think this is a far better manner to state your point than your first post. I still think the point is moot.

I could try to refute, but it does not seem to be warranted as objectives of our program and their program are far apart. I guess I really don’t care what they think. I like Tubby’s approach and if it costs loosing and some disappointing years I will bear that cost. I see Tubby process as the way I would like the Gopher program to be built. I view Kentucky as a program that only reveres the end result.



I guess I don’t see a problem with the turnover. I like that Tubby isn’t pushed around by individual’s goals and continues to implement his schemes the way he sees fit. If guys don’t want to be here then that’s fine. The only departures I don’t like are Devoe and Colton. Colton could play a major depth role for us. Devoe could have had a solid career and been given a chance to be very good last year for this team. He left before the opportunity presented itself. Too bad for him; Maybe Tubby could get better at communicating his standards to recruits, but I’m unsure whether that’s the case. I don’t have enough inside knowledge to do anything but speculate.



I think this is typical that one who is a defensive minded coach will present a low risk defensive minded offense. His philosophy is to dictate the game and play to our strengths. When we are rolling it seems this approach can really help the team. I think it keeps us in big games. However, I agree there is a limiting aspect to this approach. I wish we had a little more balance and the ability to change the tempo to exploit weaker teams and put them under by controlling the game with a demoralizing offense at times. However, that is not the case and I accept that.



I think he has improved quite a bit. He has a tendency to revert to old habits, but I don’t blame a coach for that. RSIII should look inward; I feel his struggles depend on his mindset going in to each game and less on his physical tools…Maybe that part is what Tubby needs to focus on with RSIII…or then again maybe he has been trying to communicate that to RSIII for three years.



Agreed, I think one thing Tubby lacks is the ability to adjust to certain styles. Sometimes it feels like we do that pregame too as we try to force the other team to conform. However, that could also be player dependent. I think we have too little data to really get to the bottom right now and I’m not about to go watch ten years of UK Bball. However, that is really the name of the game in any sport. I criticize most coaches for the same problem.



I guess we disagree on what a coach can and cannot do. A coach builds a system and helps the players learn that system. A coach also inspires and motivates. Players execute and when execution is the issue the coach should blame the players. One could harp on Tubby’s inspiration and motivation last year and I think that may be valid. I expect him to reflect, learn and move on to next year.


No then you blame yourself for not doing your due diligence (by that I mean either the Insurance salesman or the collective you).

I feel like most people here knew what they were getting: A hard working coach with high personal standards that will both reverse the scandal ridden trends while still putting a reasonably competitive team on the floor. Remember Clem was the latest, not the first or only scandal.

I for one do not expect a National Championship in Basketball. That’s highly unlikely for most schools. I expect MN to heal itself, then start laying the foundation for long term success. Long term success is a consistently competitive program that plays in the top half of the big ten then makes a decent run in the tournament every couple of years.

Maybe, the next coach can be a Calhoun, but he is about as rare as rare gets when it comes to program building.

+++++
I guess we do just have a different idea of what a coach should be held accountable for. And while I didn't expect national titles to fall out of the sky, I thought most people were seeing Tubby as a top level coach who could establish us as a factor in the Big 10. If that wasn't the
expectation, how do you justify his salary? There are planty of other established coaches that I would expect to be able to keep us in the middle of the pack, at a lower price tag.

 

[MRJ]

I wouldn't want us to get rid of Tubby to get Joe Schmo from Outer Mongolia. But I do think we need a different coach if we're ever going to become competitive in the BT. Catch-22 though, you can't find out who you can get, while you've got a coach.

Fair enough. My only response is that, based on what you just said, we're stuck in coaching limbo. I for one happen to disagree that we need a new coach. I'll still give Tubby the benefit of the doubt for now. The statute of limitations on my patience in these cases is not infinite, but I find it hard to believe that we'll have the same amount of off-court problems that we've had to endure the past two years for an ongoing period. Of course, I have no inside information or basis for this; it's more of a gut feeling than anything.

If things continue as they are, then yes, he probably will need to be let go. But I like the new class coming in and I think we can put together a good product next year. If not, then I may rethink things a bit.

 

[Whathavewedone]

whathave.. don't feel bad.. i was banned ( this is my first post since then ) when i suggested we will finish last in the big10 next year...

i too have never said anything vulgar.. or dropped 4 letter words..

i've thrown out some ideas.. some were accurate, some were a miss.. but many of the GHers take too much stuff too seriously...

and dont dare go into a chat room during a game and suggest the Gophers try to run.. you'll incite an f-bomb riot..

okay.. i'll hit <post quick reply> now and see if my ban is lifted..

Dboy, I don't think we'll finish last, I expect us to be back in the middle of the pack. Iowa is still in disarray, IU has a lot to prove. NW isn't likely to be as good 2 years in a row. So we can slot in anywhere from 8 to 5.

As for running, I guess like most people I prefer to see a little more action, but I don't care if he tries to run since that will seldom be in our favor. And I see other posters have misinterpreted my comment on his offensive flow. Who cares if they work the ball and the shot clock if it plays to our strength, and leads to a good shot. My problem is the too numerous possessions when we pass aimlessly around the perimeter without progressing toward a shot, then end up having to force something as the clock winds down.

 

[MRJ]

MRJ: From my life experiences, of which there are numerous, it is damned difficult for a person to answer a question when that person who is asked to answer does not know what the hell he is talking about.

This is a lesson I have learned in my life as well. Not sure if it applies in this case or not, but I guess we'll find out.

 

[Whathavewedone]

If things continue as they are, then yes, he probably will need to be let go. But I like the new class coming in and I think we can put together a good product next year. If not, then I may rethink things a bit.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly why I think this coming season should be a decisive point. Matching last year's
talent (without injuries) should return us to the middle of the pack shouldn't it? So if this group does increase our talent level, shouldn't we expect a little better than a .500-ish finish? Not even a title or runner-up, but maybe 3rd-4th range? And if we do see another 10-8, 9-9 year in the BT, will it be time for serious re-evalution? Most other people STILL saying it should take another 2 or 3 years.

 

[jamalo]

Jamalo, thank you for the compliment in your first statement. Then your following sentence was an insult, so I hereby nominate you, amongst others, as a member of Jimmy Buftett's I-95 song: BTW, welcome to, and meet, the new President of this group, Whathavewedone. You guys deserve each other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i6OrOZwtmA

Dr. Don: I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on the "three sheets to the wind" statement. If that was not PUI, then the rage in your post is frankly a bit spooky.

As to Jimmy Buffett I-95 (BTW, I've never gotten the whole Jimmy Buffett thing, especially when someone said it wasn't a bud-loving kind of thing), I would look into the mirror given that now you are beyond the 2000 or so consecutive beer posts, your theme seems to be sermonizing, which is frankly a bit tedious. I am able to ascertain who I think is a buffoon without your assistance, thank you. Also, if someone is posting something that is ridiculous in your view, respond to it factually (e.g., Tubby is the greatest thing since sliced bread despite 40% roster turnover because _____) rather than the blind, profanity laden personal attacks.

I suspect that you are a good chap from the information that I can glean from your posts, and the information that you provided on the Gary Williams thread was exactly why I come to this board. I'm not clear, however, how you became the board hall monitor or shadow moderator, although, given the lack of transparency on the latter, you could well be one of them!!

Look at how much better the thread has moved now that people are actually discussing the facts rather than trashing the messenger. I'm glad that you believe that Tubby is god; in case you are not aware, some people have a healthy dose of skeptism on that front.

 

[Dr.Don]

jamalo:


or in the words of the great Bob Dylan... IDIOT WIND