So I see honest debate isn't an option

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Whathavewedone

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I made a post yesterday. It was savaged by personal attacks, with no reasoned
rebuttals to my points. And now it has been closed. I donlt know if it was because
of the vulgar language contained in some of the replies or because of my point.
If for the language in the replies, couldn't they have just deleted those? If
for my point, are we not allowed to question the great Tubby Smith?

My thread contained no foul language. It contained no personal attacks.
It made what I feel are VERY VALID criticisms of what he has done here.
Or more accurately what he has NOT done. So I guess I'm stuck here.
Is there any point in trying to discuss Gopher basketball if we're not
allowed to question the coach, or if no one can engage in a real debate,
but only post attacks, and not even try to answer?

P.S. for OSUfan, when Sullinger has his way all season, then
gets pushed around like a 7th grader, and when Buford, Lighty and
Co. can't even get a shot, YEP I'd say you got MANHANDLED.
Score might have been 2 points, but YOU were the overall#1 seed
and you got physically whipped.
 


It is amazing to me that more than one person wants you banned.

Why is profanity and abuse of a poster tolerated in this thread? The moderators locked the thread but allowed that one to stay? Strange decision.
 

Whathavewedone said:
I made a post yesterday. It was savaged by personal attacks, with no reasoned
rebuttals to my points. And now it has been closed. I donlt know if it was because
of the vulgar language contained in some of the replies or because of my point.
If for the language in the replies, couldn't they have just deleted those? If
for my point, are we not allowed to question the great Tubby Smith?

My thread contained no foul language. It contained no personal attacks.
It made what I feel are VERY VALID criticisms of what he has done here.
Or more accurately what he has NOT done. So I guess I'm stuck here.
Is there any point in trying to discuss Gopher basketball if we're not
allowed to question the coach, or if no one can engage in a real debate,
but only post attacks, and not even try to answer?

P.S. for OSUfan, when Sullinger has his way all season, then
gets pushed around like a 7th grader, and when Buford, Lighty and
Co. can't even get a shot, YEP I'd say you got MANHANDLED.
Score might have been 2 points, but YOU were the overall#1 seed
and you got physically whipped.
Click to expand...

I used to be a Uk fan also.

Four years ago when Tubby left, UK became the laugh of the country not Tubby. You got a drunk coach who thought coaching a basketball team like Uk's was easy. He was over his head as you and all of your friends would know in reDDDDneckville.

Then, you had no choice but hiring a crook. The best team in the country 2 years ago failed to deliver. Then, yes, Uk became laugh of the country again. last year, you had a lucky break in March and went a bit deeper than any person would have thought. This year again, you will have the best team in the country. As we know you will be the laugh of the country again.

As you may have known, Tubby almost missed that UK game in March because so many people wanted to have a picture or hand-shake with him. That doesn't seem like somebody who would be hated so much. It is only you and your likes who cannot let it go. It is sick. Get some help.

Yes, we have had problems here during the last 4 seasons. The blame is on everybody. Last year, around Christmas, we were predicted to be in FF. Where were you then?

Go Gophers
 

Whathavewedone said:
I made a post yesterday. It was savaged by personal attacks, with no reasoned
rebuttals to my points. And now it has been closed. I donlt know if it was because
of the vulgar language contained in some of the replies or because of my point.
If for the language in the replies, couldn't they have just deleted those? If
for my point, are we not allowed to question the great Tubby Smith?

My thread contained no foul language. It contained no personal attacks.
It made what I feel are VERY VALID criticisms of what he has done here.
Or more accurately what he has NOT done. So I guess I'm stuck here.
Is there any point in trying to discuss Gopher basketball if we're not
allowed to question the coach, or if no one can engage in a real debate,
but only post attacks, and not even try to answer?

P.S. for OSUfan, when Sullinger has his way all season, then
gets pushed around like a 7th grader, and when Buford, Lighty and
Co. can't even get a shot, YEP I'd say you got MANHANDLED.
Score might have been 2 points, but YOU were the overall#1 seed
and you got physically whipped.
Click to expand...

While Im not going to comment on that rambling wreck of a post you made yesterday...I will say that this board tends to attack anyone that they see as being a non-fan or an imposter posing as a fan just to start controversy. Your opinion becomes more valid as you earn trust and respect...this is a small community of fans and we have been hounded by Ky posers, Wiscy fans and so on many times...we don't much like it. That said, personal attacks are never OK.

My suggestion in the future if you intend to remain a part of this board is to shorten your posts, stick to one topic and if your suggesting something controversial, expect strong responses...just like if you were fighting with your brother over something at the dinner table...you might get a pea upside your head.
 


Winnipegopher said:
It is amazing to me that more than one person wants you banned.

Why is profanity and abuse of a poster tolerated in this thread? The moderators locked the thread but allowed that one to stay? Strange decision.
Click to expand...

I can't say I'm amazed, just disappointed. Not one attempt to refute
anything I posted. Just nasty attacks. Oh well.
 

Whathavewedone said:
I can't say I'm amazed, just disappointed. Not one attempt to refute
anything I posted. Just nasty attacks. Oh well.
Click to expand...

It's been talked about, refuted and/or agreed upon ad nauseum for 4 years with new, 1 post UK fans saying more or less "I told you so". Read the board and contribute before you post a new novel of a thread telling us we've been hoodwinked. Otherwise, you knew exactly the type of responses you were going to get, and you'll be gone within a week.
 

Whathavewedone said:
I can't say I'm amazed, just disappointed. Not one attempt to refute
anything I posted. Just nasty attacks. Oh well.
Click to expand...

How about this, you annoying tool? Tubby has not been perfect, but he's taken a program that hadn't done anything in decades and took them to two straight NCAA bids (something that had been done once in the history of the program, 20 years ago). He took the exact same team that had 9 wins the previous season and turned them into a 20-win NIT team in one season. Some people (present company included) don't take into account the history of this team and act like we have some divine birthright to be Big Ten and national contenders on an annual basis. In fact, we have never gone further than the Elite Eight, and haven't won a conference championship in almost 30 years. So some of us can live in reality and be thankful that we're not a Monsonesque laughingstock, and some of us can piss and moan and wonder why we can't jump from never-wases to national title contenders in the span of 4 years. I choose to be in the former group, while you are trying your best to be the ringleader of the latter. You are free to do so, but don't act so surprised when you are "victimized" and treated like the tool that you are.

Also, you can type without pressing the carriage key. You only need to press it if you want to create space between paragraphs. Hope this helps!
 

So there you have it whathavewedone! Welcome to GH!

You stated your opinion. Everyone has one. And I happen to agree with some of your skepticism regarding Tubby.

Lets hope that the coming seasons will be void of crippling injuries, off court issues and transfers so we can fairly judge Tubby. In the meantime, I have my concerns whether Tubby can get us to the top tier of the BT.
 



Okay here is my honest opinion:

Tubby's teams seem to play with more energy and effort than Monson's teams.
Tubby plays better defense.
Tubby appears to do better recruiting wise.
Monson's teams seemed to develop more offensively and played better on that side of the ball.

Results have been similiar. Monson was stradled with sanctions and had a lot more to overcome than Tubby has. At this point I would say Tubby isn't much better than Monson. Hopefully that will change.

I will be pleasantly surprised if they make the NCAA tournament next year, I would expect them to the following year.
 

Whathavewedone said:
I made a post yesterday. It was savaged by personal attacks, with no reasoned
rebuttals to my points. And now it has been closed. I donlt know if it was because
of the vulgar language contained in some of the replies or because of my point.
If for the language in the replies, couldn't they have just deleted those? If
for my point, are we not allowed to question the great Tubby Smith?

My thread contained no foul language. It contained no personal attacks.
It made what I feel are VERY VALID criticisms of what he has done here.
Or more accurately what he has NOT done. So I guess I'm stuck here.
Is there any point in trying to discuss Gopher basketball if we're not
allowed to question the coach, or if no one can engage in a real debate,
but only post attacks, and not even try to answer?

P.S. for OSUfan, when Sullinger has his way all season, then
gets pushed around like a 7th grader, and when Buford, Lighty and
Co. can't even get a shot, YEP I'd say you got MANHANDLED.
Score might have been 2 points, but YOU were the overall#1 seed
and you got physically whipped.
Click to expand...

If you want to see how other people read your post, wait a week and go back and read what you actually wrote, maybe it will be clearer then. It is possible to say something controversial, without being really annoying and overbearing. In fact, what you wrote was not that controversial at this point, because there are lots of folks on every gopher web site who have serious questions and doubts about what Tubby has done the last two years. I still support him, but his management of his roster the last two years has not impressed me. But basically declaring him a complete failure in your first post with no hope of a turn around, and doing it in an overbearing manner was not impressive to me, nor did it seem intended to generate discussion, just arguments.
By the way, your response to OSU fan was not a "discussion encouraging" response either, it was basically "your Momma sucks!"
Just choose whether you want to rant and declare yourself the smartest guy in the room, or encourage discussion. What you actually write does not encourage discussion, just epithets.
 


GopherinPhilly said:
While Im not going to comment on that rambling wreck of a post you made yesterday...I will say that this board tends to attack anyone that they see as being a non-fan or an imposter posing as a fan just to start controversy. Your opinion becomes more valid as you earn trust and respect...this is a small community of fans and we have been hounded by Ky posers, Wiscy fans and so on many times...we don't much like it. That said, personal attacks are never OK.

My suggestion in the future if you intend to remain a part of this board is to shorten your posts, stick to one topic and if your suggesting something controversial, expect strong responses...just like if you were fighting with your brother over something at the dinner table...you might get a pea upside your head.
Click to expand...

It WAS one topic: Smith's performance here.
 



Bayfieldgopher said:
So there you have it whathavewedone! Welcome to GH!

You stated your opinion. Everyone has one. And I happen to agree with some of your skepticism regarding Tubby.

Lets hope that the coming seasons will be void of crippling injuries, off court issues and transfers so we can fairly judge Tubby. In the meantime, I have my concerns whether Tubby can get us to the top tier of the BT.
Click to expand...

Isn't that why we hired him? To make us competitive in the BT?
Can't deny that losing players this season hurt, but also can't
deny that another middle of the pack finish was all but guaranteed
had they remained healthy. To me next season should be a
ciritical season for Tubby, but most people are still making comments
about how he will "turn things around in a couple of seasons."
Isn't any one else tired of waiting for things to get turned around,
and ready for them to actually BE turned around(not just from the Tubby
era, but the preceeding eras too)?
 

.
By the way, your response to OSU fan was not a "discussion encouraging" response either, it was basically "your Momma sucks!"
Just choose whether you want to rant and declare yourself the smartest guy in the room, or encourage discussion. What you actually write does not encourage discussion, just epithets.[/QUOTE]

Hey, just calling it like I saw it in the NCAA, in the original post.
If a Buckeye wants to come on here, shouldn't he have to take
the heat? And how is it declaring myself the smartest guy in the
room to point out that the mighty #1 Buckeyes got beaten up?
Didn't anyone else watch the tournament?
 


dpodoll68 said:
How about this, you annoying tool? Tubby has not been perfect, but he's taken a program that hadn't done anything in decades and took them to two straight NCAA bids (something that had been done once in the history of the program, 20 years ago).
++++
Yeah... not sure we shold have had that 2nd bid.

He took the exact same team that had 9 wins the previous season and turned them into a 20-win NIT team in one season.
++++
That was impressive, and instilled hope. And I'll admit, maybe raise my expecations too quickly.

Some people (present company included) don't take into account the history of this team and act like we have some divine birthright to be Big Ten and national contenders on an annual basis. In fact, we have never gone further than the Elite Eight, and haven't won a conference championship in almost 30 years.
++++
Yes, but we have been competitive in the past. And I THOUGHT the reason we hired
him was because he was going to MAKE us competitive. He hasn't yet, and prospects
aren't very good for next season either. And I'm talking BT here, not nationally. Heck
yeah I'd love to see us go to a Final Four, but first and foremost, I'd like to see us have
a team that had an outside shot to win the BT.
Click to expand...
 

Gold Vision said:
It's been talked about, refuted and/or agreed upon ad nauseum for 4 years with new, 1 post UK fans saying more or less "I told you so". Read the board and contribute before you post a new novel of a thread telling us we've been hoodwinked. Otherwise, you knew exactly the type of responses you were going to get, and you'll be gone within a week.
Click to expand...

I have read the forum, quite a lot for the last couple of years. And I hoped MAYBE people
were finally ready to have realistic discussion. I don't think any of it's been "talked about/refuted/etc" ad nuaseum. I think it's basically been just what I see here.
Mindless worship, or instant flaming attacks if anyone dares question the most high worshipful Coach Smith(in their eyes, not his). I can recall very few (any?) replies to criticism of
Smith that were met with honest rebuttal, just the typical "you moron,how dare you".
and had someone been saying these things 2-3 years ago, I would have been one of the flamers. But now after four years, we have no realistic hope to be anywhere beyond where we were after his fist season, a mid-pack BT team hoping to get off the bubble. And along with what I consider
his questionalble performance, a whole lot of excuse making and responsibility ducking.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I used to be a Uk fan also.

Four years ago when Tubby left, UK became the laugh of the country not Tubby. You got a drunk coach who thought coaching a basketball team like Uk's was easy. He was over his head as you and all of your friends would know in reDDDDneckville.
++++
So as Gopher fan I'm not allowed to have my own opinion. If I dare question holy father Smith, I HAVE to be a UK fan? And we may have been laughing at the rednecks then, but I'd have to say they would be doing the laughing now. I seem to recall plenty of comments about how soon we'd be going to a Final Four back in the summer of 2007.


Yes, we have had problems here during the last 4 seasons. The blame is on everybody. Last year, around Christmas, we were predicted to be in FF. Where were you then?
++++
And all this time I thought the head man was ultimately responsible in any endeavor.
Just out of curiosity, who outside of the state was predicting us in the FF? No one
on ESPN/CBS/SI/TSN was. I was thrilled by a #12 ranking too, but realized it was
DECEMBER. Who had we played other than UNC. ANd did you notice that Harrison
Barnes in February was a completley different player than in November?
Click to expand...
 

Whathavewedone said:
I have read the forum, quite a lot for the last couple of years. And I hoped MAYBE people
were finally ready to have realistic discussion. I don't think any of it's been "talked about/refuted/etc" ad nuaseum. I think it's basically been just what I see here.
Mindless worship, or instant flaming attacks if anyone dares question the most high worshipful Coach Smith(in their eyes, not his). I can recall very few (any?) replies to criticism of
Smith that were met with honest rebuttal, just the typical "you moron,how dare you".
and had someone been saying these things 2-3 years ago, I would have been one of the flamers. But now after four years, we have no realistic hope to be anywhere beyond where we were after his fist season, a mid-pack BT team hoping to get off the bubble. And along with what I consider
his questionalble performance, a whole lot of excuse making and responsibility ducking.
Click to expand...

Allow me to take this down a little bit and ask this question: Do you want Tubby gone? If you do, just say so and it will clarify things a bit. That really is the heart of this argument isn't it?
 

Winnipegopher said:
It is amazing to me that more than one person wants you banned.

Why is profanity and abuse of a poster tolerated in this thread? The moderators locked the thread but allowed that one to stay? Strange decision.
Click to expand...

I think that having Dr. Don request that you be banned is a badge of honor. Even better when he posts it when he is three sheets to the wind!!
 

Whathavewedone said:
.
By the way, your response to OSU fan was not a "discussion encouraging" response either, it was basically "your Momma sucks!"
Just choose whether you want to rant and declare yourself the smartest guy in the room, or encourage discussion. What you actually write does not encourage discussion, just epithets.
Click to expand...

Hey, just calling it like I saw it in the NCAA, in the original post.
If a Buckeye wants to come on here, shouldn't he have to take
the heat? And how is it declaring myself the smartest guy in the
room to point out that the mighty #1 Buckeyes got beaten up?
Didn't anyone else watch the tournament?[/QUOTE]

R u trying to write a haiku?
Stop using
the return key
all the time like some dip
*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#!

And your attack on OSU getting pushed around by Ky had nothing to do with your dislike for Tubby.
 

Whathavewedone said:
The-Real-Truth said:
I used to be a Uk fan also.

Four years ago when Tubby left, UK became the laugh of the country not Tubby. You got a drunk coach who thought coaching a basketball team like Uk's was easy. He was over his head as you and all of your friends would know in reDDDDneckville.
++++
So as Gopher fan I'm not allowed to have my own opinion. If I dare question holy father Smith, I HAVE to be a UK fan? And we may have been laughing at the rednecks then, but I'd have to say they would be doing the laughing now. I seem to recall plenty of comments about how soon we'd be going to a Final Four back in the summer of 2007.


Yes, we have had problems here during the last 4 seasons. The blame is on everybody. Last year, around Christmas, we were predicted to be in FF. Where were you then?
++++
And all this time I thought the head man was ultimately responsible in any endeavor.
Just out of curiosity, who outside of the state was predicting us in the FF? No one
on ESPN/CBS/SI/TSN was. I was thrilled by a #12 ranking too, but realized it was
DECEMBER. Who had we played other than UNC. ANd did you notice that Harrison
Barnes in February was a completley different player than in November?
Click to expand...

Tubby did make many mistakes last year and the year before. I have said that many times and I say it again, he is a great coach but a bad team manager. For example, it was during a home game when RW's friends stole that Laptop. If I were the coach, I would sat RW on the bench the whole time. I kept looking for him in that game but had no idea that he was with his firends not his team.

I blame that one on Tubby. However, I don't wake up in the morning trying to find any possible way to bash him. We know what he can do. He is a human and makes mistakes like the rest of us. Now, if your fan loyalty stoped 3 years ago, maybe you should find another team to cheer for. There are teams in the country that win at any cost. Maybe, you can cheer for them. Heck, UK may win it all next year, that would be an option.

Go Gophers
Click to expand...
 

My suggestion in the future if you intend to remain a part of this board is to shorten your posts, stick to one topic and if your suggesting something controversial, expect strong responses...just like if you were fighting with your brother over something at the dinner table...you might get a pea upside your head.[/QUOTE]

How about this for one short topic: couldn't a no-name coach make us
a 9-9 BT, NCAA bubble team for about a third the money?
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Hey, just calling it like I saw it in the NCAA, in the original post.
If a Buckeye wants to come on here, shouldn't he have to take
the heat? And how is it declaring myself the smartest guy in the
room to point out that the mighty #1 Buckeyes got beaten up?
Didn't anyone else watch the tournament?
Click to expand...

R u trying to write a haiku?
Stop using
the return key
all the time like some dip
*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#!

And your attack on OSU getting pushed around by Ky had nothing to do with your dislike for Tubby.[/QUOTE]

True, it has to do with my dislike for Buckeyes. But it STILL was illustrative that our conference was not as strong as we wnated to believe.
 

I blame that one on Tubby. However, I don't wake up in the morning trying to find any possible way to bash him. We know what he can do. He is a human and makes mistakes like the rest of us.
+++
True as far as it goes. But how about the issues that aren't mistakes, but
simply a lack of ability to get the job done?

Now, if your fan loyalty stoped 3 years ago, maybe you should find another team to cheer for. There are teams in the country that win at any cost. Maybe, you can cheer for them. Heck, UK may win it all next year, that would be an option.
++++
If my loyalty had stopped/changed, why would I care about the coach's underperformance? I could just go to another forum or make fun on here like the trolls.
 



GopherinPhilly said:
Hey, just calling it like I saw it in the NCAA, in the original post.
If a Buckeye wants to come on here, shouldn't he have to take
the heat? And how is it declaring myself the smartest guy in the
room to point out that the mighty #1 Buckeyes got beaten up?
Didn't anyone else watch the tournament?
Click to expand...

R u trying to write a haiku?
Stop using
the return key
all the time like some dip
*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#!

And your attack on OSU getting pushed around by Ky had nothing to do with your dislike for Tubby.[/QUOTE

I thought u weren't into personal attacks.
 

Weisbrod said:
R u trying to write a haiku?
Stop using
the return key
all the time like some dip
*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#!

And your attack on OSU getting pushed around by Ky had nothing to do with your dislike for Tubby.[/QUOTE

I thought u weren't into personal attacks.
Click to expand...

Apparently we have different definitions. I don't consider it a personal attack to point out a TEAM being somewhat overrated. Most people would consider something like "Sullinger is a fat tub of goo", or "go f*%$self" to paraphrase some of my replies; to be a personal attack. Not my opinion that they got pushed around in the NCAA. Even saying I don't like OSU doesn't alter that.
 

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