"Simulating brandishing a weapon" penalty

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dbmn said:
So, if you were a coach of any athletic team, pewee's thru college, you'd jump up-and-down, yell at the referees, players and other coaches and your spouse, kids, parents, et all. would think "I'm good" with that display.
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Peewees no...college sure why not. Are you new to college football?
 

Allshade said:
I could honestly read PJ's lips when he was yelling at the ref. I'm pretty sure he said "everyone in the country is doing it". I've seen several instances of it where no penalty was called. I really thought they were just revealing their abs to show how ripped they were. Now that I've learned it's brandishing a weapon, I'm glad it's a penalty, and Walley deserves a serious talking to by PJ. I always hoped our athletes were fine upstanding kids. Naive, I know. I detest thug, gangster, culture. It depresses me. I wish it was cool to reject all that shit.
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This is really tricky for me and has me considering all sorts of philosophical questions. None of what I say is directed at you individually, but at the hypocrisy I see in the conversation around gangster culture.

On the one hand, I agree that venerating gangsters is a folly, and bad for our national health, culture, and development of youth. On the other, I perceive a pretty big double standard in America on which gangsters are considered ok to be venerated.

On the whole, America makes it clear that we like gangsters - the old west and prohibition are glorified. Films like the Godfather trilogy, all the spaghetti westerns, or even boys in the hood show that we at the very least are sympathetic to gangsters. Tony Soprano, Walter White, maybe even Omar from the Wire....all characters that we've deified. We celebrate Jessie James still - a bank robber!

In regard to Walley, I really just think that there is a certain segment of the watching audience that is going to be offended because the type of gangster he is emulating. Because from where I sit, I feel like I live in a country that LOVES gangsters and fetishizes guns. Both are weird to me.
 

Dave H said:
Peewees no...college sure why not. Are you new to college football?
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What does being new to college football have to do with the commenting on simulating brandishing a weapon penalty?

PJF is an adult, "earns" multi-million dollars and acts like a child jumping up-and-down on the sidelines. Same applies to former BB coach R. Pitino who also was overly emotional/jumping up-and-down courtside when he disagreed with a call.
 

dbmn said:
What does being new to college football have to do with the commenting on simulating brandishing a weapon penalty?

PJF is an adult, "earns" multi-million dollars and acts like a child jumping up-and-down on the sidelines. Same applies to former BB coach R. Pitino who also was overly emotional/jumping up-and-down courtside when he disagreed with a call.
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Because it seems like you must watch next to no college football if you think pj is anywhere near the higher end of the spectrum of childishness in how he acts on the sideline
 



upnorthkid said:
Because it seems like you must watch next to no college football if you think pj is anywhere near the higher end of the spectrum of childishness in how he acts on the sideline
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So, in your opinion, PJF's behavior on the sidelines is within what you think is the average behavior of the other coaches. If PJF is within what you think is the average behavior of a college FB coach, we'll have to disagree what's an average fan thinks is acceptable.

FYI, my original comment, which was lost in your over-the-top opinion about PJF"s sideline behavior, was that Justin Walley shouldn't be penalized for lifting his jersey if the intention had nothing to do with a firearm and if it was related to a firearm, the penalty should be applied to display of any weapon, e.g. sword, knife, gun ect... If lifting his jersey was associated with display of a firearm, he or any gopher athlete/student shouldn't do that on the field or off the field.
 

btowngopher said:
I saw a Colorado player do the sword sheathing move, no flag. Must only be for brandishing modern weapons.
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Apparently that is not a sword thing ..it's a seat belt gesture for "locking up" the receiver.
I agree it looks like a sword though since who uses 2 hands to buckle their seat belt.
 

Word said:
Apparently that is not a sword thing ..it's a seat belt gesture for "locking up" the receiver.
I agree it looks like a sword though since who uses 2 hands to buckle their seat belt.
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When I first saw it, that is what I thought as well. Better now then in a key moment in a higher stakes game.

Hope the players have learned to just celebrate with their teammates on the sidelines.
 




dbmn said:
So, in your opinion, PJF's behavior on the sidelines is within what you think is the average behavior of the other coaches. If PJF is within what you think is the average behavior of a college FB coach, we'll have to disagree what's an average fan thinks is acceptable.

FYI, my original comment, which was lost in your over-the-top opinion about PJF"s sideline behavior, was that Justin Walley shouldn't be penalized for lifting his jersey if the intention had nothing to do with a firearm and if it was related to a firearm, the penalty should be applied to display of any weapon, e.g. sword, knife, gun ect... If lifting his jersey was associated with display of a firearm, he or any gopher athlete/student shouldn't do that on the field or off the field.
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What does Fleck do that you deem inappropriate? Jumps around a little and does his sprint thing? Just shows off his spryness. Seems plenty respectful to refs.
 


btowngopher said:
What does Fleck do that you deem inappropriate? Jumps around a little and does his sprint thing? Just shows off his spryness. Seems plenty respectful to refs.
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LOL..."jumps around a little", that's an understatement.

Maybe you and your cohorts should watch other than Gopher games to see how other coaches react to calls they disagree with. Actually, PJF acts surprisingly like a teenager when running onto the field, reacting to calls, during celebrations and interviews. Similar to R Pitino. PJF is NOT Nick Saban and doesn't deserve the kudos and deference for his behavior of a top-tier coach. Has he even won both the IA and WI games in the same year...Not! Hasn't been done since 1990. His Ski-u-ma row-the-boat schtick is getting old, and he knows it.
 

dbmn said:
LOL..."jumps around a little", that's an understatement.

Maybe you and your cohorts should watch other than Gopher games to see how other coaches react to calls they disagree with. Actually, PJF acts surprisingly like a teenager when running onto the field, reacting to calls, during celebrations and interviews. Similar to R Pitino. PJF is NOT Nick Saban and doesn't deserve the kudos and deference for his behavior of a top-tier coach. Has he even won both the IA and WI games in the same year...Not! Hasn't been done since 1990. His Ski-u-ma row-the-boat schtick is getting old, and he knows it.
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That is all true.... so is the size of his paycheck.
 



dbmn said:
So, in your opinion, PJF's behavior on the sidelines is within what you think is the average behavior of the other coaches. If PJF is within what you think is the average behavior of a college FB coach, we'll have to disagree what's an average fan thinks is acceptable.

FYI, my original comment, which was lost in your over-the-top opinion about PJF"s sideline behavior, was that Justin Walley shouldn't be penalized for lifting his jersey if the intention had nothing to do with a firearm and if it was related to a firearm, the penalty should be applied to display of any weapon, e.g. sword, knife, gun ect... If lifting his jersey was associated with display of a firearm, he or any gopher athlete/student shouldn't do that on the field or off the field.
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What about when they pull the arrow back for a first down?
What about holding their hands with arms flexed and a clenched fist?

I know I don't want any pretend display of a weapon, when I am watching 245 lbs super humans violently run around and hit each other so hard that they literally inducing dementia.


As to your point about PJ, you seem to be conflating what is acceptable with what is common. It's not super common for a football coach to where a cowboy hat, you rarely see it anymore, but it's totally acceptable to me. Mike Gundy is the only coach I can think of with a mullet. Do I like it? No. Is it acceptable, of course.

For me, if you are not hurting anyone or showing anyone up, there are few things that are not acceptable for a coach to do. Even things that I might not personally enjoy are still acceptable.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
What about when they pull the arrow back for a first down?
What about holding their hands with arms flexed and a clenched fist?

I know I don't want any pretend display of a weapon, when I am watching 245 lbs super humans violently run around and hit each other so hard that they literally inducing dementia.


As to your point about PJ, you seem to be conflating what is acceptable with what is common. It's not super common for a football coach to where a cowboy hat, you rarely see it anymore, but it's totally acceptable to me. Mike Gundy is the only coach I can think of with a mullet. Do I like it? No. Is it acceptable, of course.

For me, if you are not hurting anyone or showing anyone up, there are few things that are not acceptable for a coach to do. Even things that I might not personally enjoy are still acceptable.
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Anyone know how that cow that was involved with the headbutting incident is doing?
 

dbmn said:
LOL..."jumps around a little", that's an understatement.

Maybe you and your cohorts should watch other than Gopher games to see how other coaches react to calls they disagree with. Actually, PJF acts surprisingly like a teenager when running onto the field, reacting to calls, during celebrations and interviews. Similar to R Pitino. PJF is NOT Nick Saban and doesn't deserve the kudos and deference for his behavior of a top-tier coach. Has he even won both the IA and WI games in the same year...Not! Hasn't been done since 1990. His Ski-u-ma row-the-boat schtick is getting old, and he knows it.
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I’m not sure Fleck is even above average as far as big reactions to calls. Most coaches lose it to some degree when they think a call is bad.
 

dbmn said:
What does being new to college football have to do with the commenting on simulating brandishing a weapon penalty?

PJF is an adult, "earns" multi-million dollars and acts like a child jumping up-and-down on the sidelines. Same applies to former BB coach R. Pitino who also was overly emotional/jumping up-and-down courtside when he disagreed with a call.
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Because most coaches do exactly what you are complaining about.

I would say you are the one acting like a child.
 

dbmn said:
LOL..."jumps around a little", that's an understatement.

Maybe you and your cohorts should watch other than Gopher games to see how other coaches react to calls they disagree with. Actually, PJF acts surprisingly like a teenager when running onto the field, reacting to calls, during celebrations and interviews. Similar to R Pitino. PJF is NOT Nick Saban and doesn't deserve the kudos and deference for his behavior of a top-tier coach. Has he even won both the IA and WI games in the same year...Not! Hasn't been done since 1990. His Ski-u-ma row-the-boat schtick is getting old, and he knows it.
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Motzko lays into the refs pretty good.... Where's your hate for him?
 


dbmn said:
LOL..."jumps around a little", that's an understatement.

Maybe you and your cohorts should watch other than Gopher games to see how other coaches react to calls they disagree with. Actually, PJF acts surprisingly like a teenager when running onto the field, reacting to calls, during celebrations and interviews. Similar to R Pitino. PJF is NOT Nick Saban and doesn't deserve the kudos and deference for his behavior of a top-tier coach. Has he even won both the IA and WI games in the same year...Not! Hasn't been done since 1990. His Ski-u-ma row-the-boat schtick is getting old, and he knows it.
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i watch maybe 5-10 games every weekend and then games during the week. PJ is very within the norm of coaches now for better or worse. personally, id rather they all do less yelling and remonstrating, but they do it because it works (there have been multiple studies about this and we've all seen the makeup calls). coaches shouldn't get to go off on refs because they've won (that is ridiculous and would just then allow them even more slanted calls). Gundy is known for it. Dabo does it all the time. Schiano has spiked his headset multiple times. Kirk Ferentz lays into the refs constantly. Kill would tee off on refs until he was even more beet red than usual. Hell Kirby Smart pushed a player on the other team so he could get to the ref faster to scream at him. They're all doing it. It's clear you don't like PJ. That's ok. But to act like he's outside the norm of how CFB coaches act now is incorrect.
 

dbmn said:
LOL..."jumps around a little", that's an understatement.

Maybe you and your cohorts should watch other than Gopher games to see how other coaches react to calls they disagree with. Actually, PJF acts surprisingly like a teenager when running onto the field, reacting to calls, during celebrations and interviews. Similar to R Pitino. PJF is NOT Nick Saban and doesn't deserve the kudos and deference for his behavior of a top-tier coach. Has he even won both the IA and WI games in the same year...Not! Hasn't been done since 1990. His Ski-u-ma row-the-boat schtick is getting old, and he knows it.
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Just be a man and say you don't like PJ rather than fabricate some ridiculous narrative to justify your feelings about him.

I've never seen an entire team, right down to every man, more respectful to officials than the Golden Gophers are under Coach Fleck. As a fan, I'm very proud of that.
 

Slim Tubby said:
Just be a man and say you don't like PJ rather than fabricate some ridiculous narrative to justify your feelings about him.

I've never seen an entire team, right down to every man, more respectful to officials than the Golden Gophers are under Coach Fleck. As a fan, I'm very proud of that.
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People can hate on him for his between quarter jogs, and maybe his rtb personal mantra, but there is not one person who can refute what you just said. I love every bit of how he represents the U and the team and his players follow suit.
 


Mr. 131 said:
This is really tricky for me and has me considering all sorts of philosophical questions. None of what I say is directed at you individually, but at the hypocrisy I see in the conversation around gangster culture.

On the one hand, I agree that venerating gangsters is a folly, and bad for our national health, culture, and development of youth. On the other, I perceive a pretty big double standard in America on which gangsters are considered ok to be venerated.

On the whole, America makes it clear that we like gangsters - the old west and prohibition are glorified. Films like the Godfather trilogy, all the spaghetti westerns, or even boys in the hood show that we at the very least are sympathetic to gangsters. Tony Soprano, Walter White, maybe even Omar from the Wire....all characters that we've deified. We celebrate Jessie James still - a bank robber!

In regard to Walley, I really just think that there is a certain segment of the watching audience that is going to be offended because the type of gangster he is emulating. Because from where I sit, I feel like I live in a country that LOVES gangsters and fetishizes guns. Both are weird to me.
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Made me think of Robert Smith of the vikes who made a comment about how some gangsters are revered and wear suits and stuff (mob) while others who aren't as revered where baggy clothes, backwards hats, etc.

PS. As a huge fan of The Wire, I'm not sure I'd call Omar a gangster - although I'll agree with the deified part. Bunk lecturing him about kids in the street pretending to be Omar - good scene!
 

upnorthkid said:
i watch maybe 5-10 games every weekend and then games during the week. PJ is very within the norm of coaches now for better or worse. personally, id rather they all do less yelling and remonstrating, but they do it because it works (there have been multiple studies about this and we've all seen the makeup calls). coaches shouldn't get to go off on refs because they've won (that is ridiculous and would just then allow them even more slanted calls). Gundy is known for it. Dabo does it all the time. Schiano has spiked his headset multiple times. Kirk Ferentz lays into the refs constantly. Kill would tee off on refs until he was even more beet red than usual. Hell Kirby Smart pushed a player on the other team so he could get to the ref faster to scream at him. They're all doing it. It's clear you don't like PJ. That's ok. But to act like he's outside the norm of how CFB coaches act now is incorrect.
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Yeah, I'm no Fleckster and totally agree he's pretty calm on the sidelines like 90% of the time. He mostly paced the sidelines, crouching at the line of scrimmage for snaps. He gets more animated at the end of the quarters with his little run, and when there's an obvious bad call, but still under a lot of control.
 

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