Simon/Sanford

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Gophers1992

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Question for those more in the know than me. Sanford gets a lot of flack for the Illinois and BG performances (which absolutely were inexcusable). A lot of fans are set on the idea of firing Sanford and promoting Simon (which may or may not be a good idea, I wouldn't know). With them being Co-OC's, should Simon receive no criticism of the poor game planning and execution? I know Sanford calls plays, and quite poorly at times IMO, but what makes everyone so certain that Simon is ready to take over that role, when he arguably is partially at fault for some of the offensive shortcomings we've seen?

I expect some will point to Simon's one-game audition against Auburn, which was a fantastic game, but also Simon had the benefit of 2 NFL WR, a couple talented backs, and an overall very good team paired with longer preparation time. To be clear, I like Simon and I want him to be the answer for a long time, I just am not sure I'm willing to look at one game and call him the next big thing.

Again I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong about anything, I just find it odd that Simon has been shielded from all criticism while people are ready to burn Sanford at the stake, despite the two of them presumably splitting the role of OC.
 

Really depends on who else PJ could get to be OC. I like Simon because he is "one of us" and helped us win a bowl game, but there definitely could be some more qualified candidates whenever that time comes.
 

Your question is a good one since none of us know. Calling for the co-OC is like calling for the backup QB. Could be better, but could be worse. Sometimes it works, but sometimes it doesn't.

That said, the primary issue with the offense seems to be in-game adjustments and taking what the defense is giving rather than what the gameplan assumed would be given. In that way it's primarily on the play caller...which is Sanford obviously. You'd hope his offensive staff (including Simon) is noticing what isn't working and making suggestions of course...
 

MGGopher said:
Your question is a good one since none of us know....
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This is spot on for gopherhole

We don’t know the breakdown of who comes up with the gameplan. We don’t know how much Simon has his ear
 

Some guy said:
This is spot on for gopherhole

We don’t know the breakdown of who comes up with the gameplan. We don’t know how much Simon has his ear
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Yeah I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, it is more just interesting to me the way the fan base views each of them.
 


You would think they are co-OC's.

Since, after all, Simon's title is: co-OC.


But no. No ... that is not correct.

Because, Sanford's title is: OC.


Yes, you read that right. One guy is a co- .... but of what, and with whom, he's a co- of ... no one really knows. Because there is still just a singular main guy, who is not co- at all.
 

MplsGopher said:
You would think they are co-OC's.

Since, after all, Simon's title is: co-OC.


But no. No ... that is not correct.

Because, Sanford's title is: OC.


Yes, you read that right. One guy is a co- .... but what he's co- of ... no one really knows. Because there is still a singular main guy, who is not co- at all.
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I didn't realize that. I suppose that makes some sense. Thank you.
 





Not 100% sure, but I think the title of co-OC was done in order to give Simon a salary bump. Like a promotion in name only.

I expect that Simon does have input during the week into game-planning, but without having a feed of the coaches' headsets, it's impossible to know what happens on game day. Who is saying what and who is making decisions. ------And, that includes what Fleck's input may be.

if Sanford calls for "98-X heavy flex right power," does Fleck say "No, don't run that." Only the coaches really know. And I don't think they'll be sharing those secrets anytime soon.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Not 100% sure, but I think the title of co-OC was done in order to give Simon a salary bump. Like a promotion in name only.

I expect that Simon does have input during the week into game-planning, but without having a feed of the coaches' headsets, it's impossible to know what happens on game day. Who is saying what and who is making decisions. ------And, that includes what Fleck's input may be.

if Sanford calls for "98-X heavy flex right power," does Fleck say "No, don't run that." Only the coaches really know. And I don't think they'll be sharing those secrets anytime soon.
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I personally don't think Fleck is really involved in any of those decisions on 95% of play calling. I think he moreso steps in when a potential 4th down opportunity comes up and he'll decide whether to go, punt, kick.

I remember he always used to talk about how he completely stayed out of Ciarocca's way with playcalling. It may be different with Sanford but that would also be a red flag.
 

Simon was passing game coordinator in 2019 for sure (maybe earlier).

I assume he has a similar role now, with just a "nicer title" for the look and/or for more money as SON speculates.
 

MplsGopher said:
You would think they are co-OC's.

Since, after all, Simon's title is: co-OC.


But no. No ... that is not correct.

Because, Sanford's title is: OC.


Yes, you read that right. One guy is a co- .... but of what, and with whom, he's a co- of ... no one really knows. Because there is still just a singular main guy, who is not co- at all.
Click to expand...
You're right on the money, Citi. If Simon were really Co-Coordinator then Sanford would be too. We all know that is not the case. There is only one Offensive Coordinator. Sanford runs the show.

Simon wanted the job permanently after the Auburn game. Fleck went outside and to soften the blow he gave Simon a phony title which enabled a pay raise. In reality Simon remains the wide receivers coach.

Sure, he meets with Sanford during the week and gives his input. Some of it might even be accepted and implemented in the plan. But that's up to Sanford. I would be very surprised if Sanford was taking comments during the game from Simon about the play call.
 



Simon leaves the end of the season to be OC at another Power 5 program.

he ends up doing a great job and becomes a HC in 3-5 years.

meanwhile we start seeing our QB talent diminish since we have gone away from the pre-sanford playbook and are so run heavy that we go back to Mitch Leidner rated QBs

That would be classic MN sports right there
 


Dakota2 said:
You're right on the money, Citi. If Simon were really Co-Coordinator then Sanford would be too. We all know that is not the case. There is only one Offensive Coordinator. Sanford runs the show.

Simon wanted the job permanently after the Auburn game. Fleck went outside and to soften the blow he gave Simon a phony title which enabled a pay raise. In reality Simon remains the wide receivers coach.

Sure, he meets with Sanford during the week and gives his input. Some of it might even be accepted and implemented in the plan. But that's up to Sanford. I would be very surprised if Sanford was taking comments during the game from Simon about the play call.
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It is clear you have no idea how game planning works.


All members of the offensive staff are involved in the game planning.
You think position coaches just show up and run drills?
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
Simon leaves the end of the season to be OC at another Power 5 program.

he ends up doing a great job and becomes a HC in 3-5 years.

meanwhile we start seeing our QB talent diminish since we have gone away from the pre-sanford playbook and are so run heavy that we go back to Mitch Leidner rated QBs

That would be classic MN sports right there
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The offense is so bad that the assistant OC gets a job upgrade at an equal or greater prestige program?
 

Some guy said:
All members of the offensive staff are involved in the game planning.
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Hence why he said "Sure, he meets with Sanford during the week and gives his input. Some of it might even be accepted and implemented in the plan."
 



MplsGopher said:
Hence why he said "Sure, he meets with Sanford during the week and gives his input. Some of it might even be accepted and implemented in the plan."
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Ladder this up one level to Sanford -> Fleck

This is just sort of how work works. I've been "in charge" of things that still require a heck of a lot of groupthink, navigating through vetos from more senior leaders, others who don't know half of what I do about the subject changing my direction, etc.
 

So again.

Simon was passing game coordinator in 2019, under Ciarrocca, when we ran more quick slants.


Sanford comes in, and we run less quick slants. Is that just a coincidence, or is Sanford making decisions about how the passing game will run?
 



Could not resist...great theme song. Quincy Jones did pretty much everything musically, brilliant guy.

 


Gophers1992 said:
Question for those more in the know than me. Sanford gets a lot of flack for the Illinois and BG performances (which absolutely were inexcusable). A lot of fans are set on the idea of firing Sanford and promoting Simon (which may or may not be a good idea, I wouldn't know). With them being Co-OC's, should Simon receive no criticism of the poor game planning and execution? I know Sanford calls plays, and quite poorly at times IMO, but what makes everyone so certain that Simon is ready to take over that role, when he arguably is partially at fault for some of the offensive shortcomings we've seen?

I expect some will point to Simon's one-game audition against Auburn, which was a fantastic game, but also Simon had the benefit of 2 NFL WR, a couple talented backs, and an overall very good team paired with longer preparation time. To be clear, I like Simon and I want him to be the answer for a long time, I just am not sure I'm willing to look at one game and call him the next big thing.

Again I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong about anything, I just find it odd that Simon has been shielded from all criticism while people are ready to burn Sanford at the stake, despite the two of them presumably splitting the role of OC.
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In absence of any other evidence to the contrary, we must assume Sanford is calling the plays and is the lead offensive coach. As such, he gets to own the dreadful play-calling/performances we've seen way too often the last 2 years.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
Simon leaves the end of the season to be OC at another Power 5 program.

he ends up doing a great job and becomes a HC in 3-5 years.

meanwhile we start seeing our QB talent diminish since we have gone away from the pre-sanford playbook and are so run heavy that we go back to Mitch Leidner rated QBs

That would be classic MN sports right there
Click to expand...
I am afraid you might be right.
 

howeda7 said:
In absence of any other evidence to the contrary, we must assume Sanford is calling the plays and is the lead offensive coach. As such, he gets to own the dreadful play-calling/performances we've seen way too often the last 2 years.
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Agreed with this, but my point wasn’t to defend the work Sanford has done (he has been bad IMO), but rather to question why so many are certain that Simon is the answer, and why he has escaped criticism when it’s possible he is playing a role in some of the struggles of the last 2 years.
For what it’s worth if it came to it I would be in favor of giving Simon the nod over Sanford, because I can’t imagine he would be much worse.
 

Some guy said:
The offense is so bad that the assistant OC gets a job upgrade at an equal or greater prestige program?
Click to expand...
Why is our brilliant OC keep getting the OC job? It is more than you're part of a horrible Offense. Some OC/HC can clearly scout Simon's capacity and differentiate it from Sanford's. Not that difficult.
 

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