Simon/Sanford

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Gophers1992 said:
Agreed with this, but my point wasn’t to defend the work Sanford has done (he has been bad IMO), but rather to question why so many are certain that Simon is the answer, and why he has escaped criticism when it’s possible he is playing a role in some of the struggles of the last 2 years.
For what it’s worth if it came to it I would be in favor of giving Simon the nod over Sanford, because I can’t imagine he would be much worse.
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Simon, small sample size or not, gets credit for the one game we know he was in charge for, which was very impressive. That might be fool's gold and he might not be the answer. But as you said, he could hardly be worse than Sanford.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Agreed with this, but my point wasn’t to defend the work Sanford has done (he has been bad IMO), but rather to question why so many are certain that Simon is the answer, and why he has escaped criticism when it’s possible he is playing a role in some of the struggles of the last 2 years.
For what it’s worth if it came to it I would be in favor of giving Simon the nod over Sanford, because I can’t imagine he would be much worse.
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It's my understanding that Simon doesn't call plays which absolves him of most responsibility in terms of a one-dimensional game plan.

Another factor is that Simon is the WR's coach on a team that runs the ball 70 percent of the time.
I have to imagine if the game plan was up to Simon, he would be inclined to show the position group he coaches more love.

In the one game that Simon was responsible for calling plays, the Gophs ran 45 run plays and 30 pass plays. This distribution still puts an emphasis on our bread and butter, the power run game, but keeps the pass game involved enough to keep the defense honest. Obviously this sample size is minimal, but it's enough to make Sanford critics optimistic for change.

If Simon isn't given an OC opportunity at Minnesota he will be given a shot elsewhere. Simon has produced elite talent within his position group (WR's) at both Minnesota and Western Michigan, something Sanford hasn't done.
 

howeda7 said:
In absence of any other evidence to the contrary, we must assume Sanford is calling the plays and is the lead offensive coach. As such, he gets to own the dreadful play-calling/performances we've seen way too often the last 2 years.
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Heres the way I look at it.

1) Tanner Morgan has regressed massively since Cioracca left, even with limited Bateman on the team last year and a healthy CRaB from what i recall.

2) We are not just run heavy, we basically stop passing in the 2nd half and even then in the first have we barely throw the ball (most games)

so the only thing that would happen if Simon took over, would be we pass a little more and more than likely have a passing tree that makes actual sense for each game.

no way he could do worse. If all else fails, revert back to running the ball 80% of the time (what it seems like)
 

Some guy said:
It is clear you have no idea how game planning works.


All members of the offensive staff are involved in the game planning.
You think position coaches just show up and run drills?
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And it is clear you have not faintest idea who is boss and who makes the plan. Sitting in a meeting a couple hours a week does not mean you did anything.
 

I'm waiting for co-OC Garfunkel. OK not really funny, but sort of. OK, not.
 


MGGopher said:
Your question is a good one since none of us know. Calling for the co-OC is like calling for the backup QB. Could be better, but could be worse. Sometimes it works, but sometimes it doesn't.

That said, the primary issue with the offense seems to be in-game adjustments and taking what the defense is giving rather than what the gameplan assumed would be given. In that way it's primarily on the play caller...which is Sanford obviously. You'd hope his offensive staff (including Simon) is noticing what isn't working and making suggestions of course...
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It's the thing with two heads! (Ray Milland, Rosie Grier, 1972)
 

BoatRacer said:
Why is our brilliant OC keep getting the OC job? It is more than you're part of a horrible Offense. Some OC/HC can clearly scout Simon's capacity and differentiate it from Sanford's. Not that difficult.
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Really, what parts of the plan were each responsible for last week if it isn’t that hard. Enlighten us
 

I looked closer at Sanford Jr.'s resume and he is just a better run game OC than passing game. He's not a good QB/OC coach. Fleck needs to find his next Kirk Ciarrocca.

Stanford in 2011 to 2013, when Sanford Jr. was Run Coordinator, was 34-7 and went to Fiesta/Rose/Rose bowls. He then switched to QB/OC at his next stops. He's a run first OC.

Most of his success seems to also be riding the coattails of some good offensive coaches. He coached under David Shaw who was a good OC and Bryan Harsin.


I also wonder how much input Simon has on the passing game.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I looked closer at Sanford Jr.'s resume and he is just a better run game OC than passing game. He's not a good QB/OC coach. Fleck needs to find his next Kirk Ciarrocca.

Stanford in 2011 to 2013, when Sanford Jr. was Run Coordinator, was 34-7 and went to Fiesta/Rose/Rose bowls. He then switched to QB/OC at his next stops. He's a run first OC.

Most of his success seems to also be riding the coattails of some good offensive coaches. He coached under David Shaw who was a good OC and Bryan Harsin.


I also wonder how much input Simon has on the passing game.
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You would think a guy who actually played QB in college -- as Sanford did -- would be able to help QB's play better.

But they tend to regress under him.
 



Also, doesn't Simon & Sanford's sound like an expensive steak and seafood restaurant?
 

Simon is essentially in the role of "backup QB" in the Offensive Coordinator realm.

Everyone loves the backup.
 





MaxyJR1 said:
I looked closer at Sanford Jr.'s resume and he is just a better run game OC than passing game. He's not a good QB/OC coach. Fleck needs to find his next Kirk Ciarrocca.

Stanford in 2011 to 2013, when Sanford Jr. was Run Coordinator, was 34-7 and went to Fiesta/Rose/Rose bowls. He then switched to QB/OC at his next stops. He's a run first OC.

Most of his success seems to also be riding the coattails of some good offensive coaches. He coached under David Shaw who was a good OC and Bryan Harsin.


I also wonder how much input Simon has on the passing game.
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And David Shaw and Bryan harson just rode on the coattails of Peterson and harbaugh

that’s how coaching works
 

He's running out of coattails.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I looked closer at Sanford Jr.'s resume and he is just a better run game OC than passing game. He's not a good QB/OC coach. Fleck needs to find his next Kirk Ciarrocca.

Stanford in 2011 to 2013, when Sanford Jr. was Run Coordinator, was 34-7 and went to Fiesta/Rose/Rose bowls. He then switched to QB/OC at his next stops. He's a run first OC.

Most of his success seems to also be riding the coattails of some good offensive coaches. He coached under David Shaw who was a good OC and Bryan Harsin.


I also wonder how much input Simon has on the passing game.
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I've been wondering the same thing more recently. His title is passing game coordinator. Well guess what? The passing game stinks. Would love to have the inside scoop on the actual development of each weeks game plan and play calling but it'll never happen. Still, the running game has been creative and a terrific success. Just makes you wonder...
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
Heres the way I look at it.

1) Tanner Morgan has regressed massively since Cioracca left, even with limited Bateman on the team last year and a healthy CRaB from what i recall.

2) We are not just run heavy, we basically stop passing in the 2nd half and even then in the first have we barely throw the ball (most games)

so the only thing that would happen if Simon took over, would be we pass a little more and more than likely have a passing tree that makes actual sense for each game.

no way he could do worse. If all else fails, revert back to running the ball 80% of the time (what it seems like)
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For weeks we have been around 120th of 130 teams in passing offense. That is not good. PJ used to talk about how important a "balanced offense" is; once I think he said "60-40" or so. It really seems he doesn't trust Morgan in the red zone now, which wasn't the case in 2019.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
For weeks we have been around 120th of 130 teams in passing offense. That is not good. PJ used to talk about how important a "balanced offense" is; once I think he said "60-40" or so. It really seems he doesn't trust Morgan in the red zone now, which wasn't the case in 2019.
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PJj used to list "big plays" as No. 1 key to winning. Haven't heard that lately.
 




SanDiegoGopherFan said:
For context - Leidners only other offer, Northern Iowa
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"Played in 47 career games (29-18 record) and started 41 (24-17 record as a starter) • rushed 446 times (15th all-time in school history) for 1,495 yards (third in school history for a quarterback) and 33 career touchdowns (most in school history for a quarterback, fourth for any player) • passed for 7,287 yards (third most in school history) and 36 touchdowns (fifth in school history) • ranks fifth all-time in school history in completion percentage (56.4), second in completions (580) and second in attempts (1,029) • only Minnesota quarterback ever to pass and rush for 30 career touchdowns • ranks second all-time in total offense with 8,882 yards."
 

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