Sid: Kaler looking into turning the Pavilion into "first class" practice facility

[BleedGopher]

Sid: Kaler looking into turning the Pavilion into "first class" practice facility

"Revamping Pavilion?

University of Minnesota President Eric Kaler has talked to some of the school's regents about changes in the athletic facilities, including the possibility of turning the Sports Pavilion -- the building adjacent to Williams Arena -- into a first-class building for the men's and women's basketball program.

As part of that conversation, there has been talk of some remodeling of Williams Arena, and about constructing a new building for teams that use the Pavilion where the present indoor sports building, on University Avenue adjacent to Cooke Hall, is being torn down.

Meanwhile, some money has been raised for a basketball practice facility that men's coach Tubby Smith feels is important to be able to compete, and use as a recruiting tool when bringing in some of the country's better high school players.

All of this is just conversation at the present."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/144736615.html

Go Gophers!!

 

[MadtownGopher]

I like it. Kaler seems to be doing his best to improve athletics as much as possible.

 

[CrocShots]

I don't think this is a bad idea at all, use what ya got and the pavillion is big enough to have multiple floors in it potentially.

 

[Gold Vision]

Were there already plans to build the other indoor sports facility?

Seems like a nice solution, but it is also seems like a fairly long term commitment to Williams Arena.

 

[Prado89]

Were there already plans to build the other indoor sports facility?

Seems like a nice solution, but it is also seems like a fairly long term commitment to Williams Arena.

Why can't they use Ridder Arena for other indoor sports. It will be more meaningful than freaking robot fighting thing at that place.

 

[westcoastgopher11]

I think if we were to knock down Williams it would be regretted one day. Remodel the place, raise the whole interior of the structure if reshaping the seating bowl is necessary, but keep it. Those rafters have what history this program has, and I don't want some cookie cutter generic arena replacing one of the most unique environments in college basketball. Nebraska's new arena cost ~$180 million, we could spend less than half and have a first rate playing facility AND practice facility. Obviously fundraising is going to be the new hurdle, I hope the new AD has got some friends with deep pockets...

 

[Maximus]

I think if we were to knock down Williams it would be regretted one day. Remodel the place, raise the whole interior of the structure if reshaping the seating bowl is necessary, but keep it. Those rafters have what history this program has, and I don't want some cookie cutter generic arena replacing one of the most unique environments in college basketball. Nebraska's new arena cost ~$180 million, we could spend less than half and have a first rate playing facility AND practice facility. Obviously fundraising is going to be the new hurdle, I hope the new AD has got some friends with deep pockets...

There's no such thing as cookie cutter generic arenas anymore.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

I think if we were to knock down Williams it would be regretted one day. Remodel the place, raise the whole interior of the structure if reshaping the seating bowl is necessary, but keep it. Those rafters have what history this program has, and I don't want some cookie cutter generic arena replacing one of the most unique environments in college basketball. Nebraska's new arena cost ~$180 million, we could spend less than half and have a first rate playing facility AND practice facility. Obviously fundraising is going to be the new hurdle, I hope the new AD has got some friends with deep pockets...

Great post! You're right, for 1/2 of what Nebraska spent we could do an extreme makeover on Williams, blending the best of old & new + put together a sweet practice facility.

 

[GopherJake]

Can someone list some of Williams Arena's best features?

 

[jovs]

the present indoor sports building, on University Avenue adjacent to Cooke Hall, is being torn down

I was wondering when that was going to be torn down, kind of a waist of space. What teams use the pavillion, wrestling, gymnastics???

 

[westcoastgopher11]

There's no such thing as cookie cutter generic arenas anymore.

Disagree. If logos and colors from random arenas around the country were photoshopped out how much easier do you think the Barn would be to identify than any other arena? After Williams was made they broke the mold.

Great post! You're right, for 1/2 of what Nebraska spent we could do an extreme makeover on Williams, blending the best of old & new + put together a sweet practice facility.

If the U could scrape together $90 million people would be floored what they could do with the place...

 

[westcoastgopher11]

Can someone list some of Williams Arena's best features?

Right now? Its got cramped concourses, poor lighting, subpar premium seating and worn out fixtures/concessions. Thankfully all these things can be remedied by the almighty dollar.

The one thing money can't buy? Character.

 

[station19]

Can someone list some of Williams Arena's best features?

The front of the building, which was added about 20 years ago.

 

[GopherJake]

Right now? Its got cramped concourses, poor lighting, subpar premium seating and worn out fixtures/concessions. Thankfully all these things can be remedied by the almighty dollar.

The one thing money can't buy? Character.

Ok, what is the "character" specifically? How are they going to keep the character without tearing the entire thing down (except maybe the facade, which, as mentioned, is lovely - and fairly new).

 

[westcoastgopher11]

Keep character? Well for one remove obstructed view seats, you can reinforce the upper/lower levels so that we don't need beams in the middle of seating. Stairways to higher levels need major work, open up the inside too for ramps etc.

Another thing that people I'm surprised hasn't been brought up is the possibility of a rotunda/atrium area that could be used for a number of things. Tunnel or walkway from locker rooms or practice facility to the court, more space for vendors, band playing the rouser and marching around a la Mariucci. These could all be built outwards from the facility if the necessary work is done in updating the insides. Make the lofts legitimately look nice, and seatbacks everywhere.

Basically everything short of the ceiling and the raised floor needs to be evaluated. If you gave some firms a $90million budget (hypothetical still) you would be amazed at what was possible.

 

[SelectionSunday]

Turning the Pavilion into the practice facility makes perfect sense. Surprised that hasn't been brought up before (if it was I missed it). Plenty of space, women no longer use it for games, it's right next to Williams Arena. And Tubby's players won't have to go out in the cold or cross the street in the winter!

This makes so much sense it probably won't happen.

 

[bga1]

Turning the Pavilion into the practice facility makes perfect sense. Surprised that hasn't been brought up before (if it was I missed it). Plenty of space, women no longer use it for games, it's right next to Williams Arena. And Tubby's players won't have to go out in the cold or cross the street in the winter!

This makes so much sense it probably won't happen.

There was a discussion about this a couple of months back. I think it's a great idea. See this thread:
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...-a-new-arena-and-practice-facility-quot/page2
The bright idea I see is by HHHGopher in post #37 and then wait until you read what the knothead in post #39 says.
Prior to HHH Gopher's suggestion I had been thinking the only option was to replace the Barn- he convinced me otherwise.

I think Kahler reads the GHole.

As far as Williams Arena - the way it is built all the seats feel close to the court. In fact some of my favorite seats are upper deck -long side of the court.

 

[Maximus]

Basically everything short of the ceiling and the raised floor needs to be evaluated. If you gave some firms a $90million budget (hypothetical still) you would be amazed at what was possible.

So why not build a new arena that has a ceiling and raised floor?

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Can someone list some of Williams Arena's best features?

I have seen my share of games at Williams Arena, and never once thought "I wish this stadium were newer". I have a great time, I love the brick building, I love the raised floor. Maybe I am getting lost and going to a different Arena than you guys, but I am perfectly happy sitting in the Barn.

 

[brucekaupa]

I want credit for this idea. Mine. Mine. I suggested it when Tubby first started pushing for a facility.

Makes too much sense.

But hold on. They are tearing down the field house?!? Dang.

 

[Schnauzer]

A visit to Europe reveals such a deep divide in the thinking that goes into the construction of buildings compared to the US. For example, in cities all over Germany there are classic structures that were heavily damaged by WWII bombing, and later painstakingly put back together, brick by brick. One of my favorites is the Munich Frauenkirche, which was almost entirely destroyed during the war but looks awesome today. This line of thinking continues today as cities all over Europe often spend MORE to refurbish and rebuild aging structures instead of level them to start over. Meanwhile, I have a book titled "Lost Twin Cities" which is an entire publication of incredible buildings here that have been demolished over the years. If it costs $1.99 to build something new and $2.00 to refurbish something old, it is an American tradition to save that $.01 nearly every time.

So, I understand there are people more than ready to line up William's Arena get imploded. I doubt these minds could be changed. However, for me... I really like the idea of a remodel/refresh with the other third of the building turned into a first class practice facility. I love William's Arena... right down to the smell when I am there. I realize there are obstructed seats, narrow concourses, etc. I would love to see most of these items worked on in a remodel with the goal to preserve Williams overall. I see people now blaming Williams for the overall state of the program. I think Williams Arena has far less to do with the state of the program than things like academic scandals, ACL injuries, Mall of America shoplifting sprees, and head scratching player transfers.

I would just be sick to find Williams Arena in "Lost Twin Cities, Volume II" someday.

 

[GopherJake]

Keep character? Well for one remove obstructed view seats, you can reinforce the upper/lower levels so that we don't need beams in the middle of seating. Stairways to higher levels need major work, open up the inside too for ramps etc.

Another thing that people I'm surprised hasn't been brought up is the possibility of a rotunda/atrium area that could be used for a number of things. Tunnel or walkway from locker rooms or practice facility to the court, more space for vendors, band playing the rouser and marching around a la Mariucci. These could all be built outwards from the facility if the necessary work is done in updating the insides. Make the lofts legitimately look nice, and seatbacks everywhere.

Basically everything short of the ceiling and the raised floor needs to be evaluated. If you gave some firms a $90million budget (hypothetical still) you would be amazed at what was possible.

Sounds to me like you want to tear everything down except for the roof and outside walls. So what is left of the character? (I'm not trying to be a Richard.) Below bleedsmaroonandgold says don't change a thing - that's a fair view. BGA says he loves the intimate feel (me too and I agree, my favorite seats are second deck, front row, center court).

You are saying change some (a lot of) things, but keep the character. What is the character you want to keep? And is it logistically possible to change the things you want changed without gutting the place?

 

[dlw4gophers]

I was wondering when that was going to be torn down, kind of a waist of space. What teams use the pavillion, wrestling, gymnastics???

Add volleyball to that list.

 

[tikited]

A visit to Europe reveals such a deep divide in the thinking that goes into the construction of buildings compared to the US. For example, in cities all over Germany there are classic structures that were heavily damaged by WWII bombing, and later painstakingly put back together, brick by brick. One of my favorites is the Munich Frauenkirche, which was almost entirely destroyed during the war but looks awesome today. This line of thinking continues today as cities all over Europe often spend MORE to refurbish and rebuild aging structures instead of level them to start over. Meanwhile, I have a book titled "Lost Twin Cities" which is an entire publication of incredible buildings here that have been demolished over the years. If it costs $1.99 to build something new and $2.00 to refurbish something old, it is an American tradition to save that $.01 nearly every time.

So, I understand there are people more than ready to line up William's Arena get imploded. I doubt these minds could be changed. However, for me... I really like the idea of a remodel/refresh with the other third of the building turned into a first class practice facility. I love William's Arena... right down to the smell when I am there. I realize there are obstructed seats, narrow concourses, etc. I would love to see most of these items worked on in a remodel with the goal to preserve Williams overall. I see people now blaming Williams for the overall state of the program. I think Williams Arena has far less to do with the state of the program than things like academic scandals, ACL injuries, Mall of America shoplifting sprees, and head scratching player transfers.

I would just be sick to find Williams Arena in "Lost Twin Cities, Volume II" someday.

Good post.

 

[DLguy]

In response to what I would change. In the actual seating area of the arena, I would use modern engineering to support the upper decks with minimal beams to reduce obstructed view seats. New scoreboard and sound system, and new signage on the 2nd deck facade. Other than those minor changes, i would not change a damn thing. Love all the seats. The views in there unless obstructed are the best anywhere. You can be last row of the upper deck end and feel closer to the court than last row of the lower deck at Target Center.

Outside of the seating area. Expand on the University Ave side to include a larger concourse, more bathrooms and concessions. And then renovate the current restrooms.

I really dont think anything else is needed. I guess a new roof is needed, but that is standard maintanence.

Pav into a practice facility would be awesome. But then you have to make a new arena for volleyball and gymnastics. MIght was well just spend the money on a new practice facility connected via tunnel to the Pav.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I'm not a structural engineer (even though I took structural engineering classes in school), so take this for what it's worth. It strikes me as a major piece of work - and may not even be feasible - to take those columns out that support the upper deck. In order for that upper deck to become a cantilever, it may have to be completely disassembled or replaced. In any case, a completely new structural support system and/or foundation would become necessary. Doing so might require very fancy engineering and construction, especially if you want to keep the rest of the building. Again, it may not be feasible or, at the very least, questionable when you consider the benefit. Maybe Gopher Rock would like to weigh in. I think he's a structural guy.

In the bigger picture, the idea of expanding concourses is confined by the outside walls and ultimately by 4th Street. On the University Ave. side, you could keep the old outside wall as an interior wall, but I'm not sure about the 4th Street side. Perhaps the street could be shifted enough to make a difference. In any case, this shapes up as an even more difficult make-it-fit situation than Target Field was.

I feel that, to a certain extent, there are things we'll have to live with to keep the old building, and those are things like space, amenities, mobility, etc. We may or may not be able to ever have 2nd deck concourses, concessions and restrooms. Or maybe there is a brilliant way to make those types of things happen. I have to admit that the sight lines and closeness to the court are things that I would miss if we went to a spacious new building.

 

[bga1]

I'm not a structural engineer (even though I took structural engineering classes in school), so take this for what it's worth. It strikes me as a major piece of work - and may not even be feasible - to take those columns out that support the upper deck. In order for that upper deck to become a cantilever, it may have to be completely disassembled or replaced. In any case, a completely new structural support system and/or foundation would become necessary. Doing so might require very fancy engineering and construction, especially if you want to keep the rest of the building. Again, it may not be feasible or, at the very least, questionable when you consider the benefit. Maybe Gopher Rock would like to weigh in. I think he's a structural guy.

In the bigger picture, the idea of expanding concourses is confined by the outside walls and ultimately by 4th Street. On the University Ave. side, you could keep the old outside wall as an interior wall, but I'm not sure about the 4th Street side. Perhaps the street could be shifted enough to make a difference. In any case, this shapes up as an even more difficult make-it-fit situation than Target Field was.

I feel that, to a certain extent, there are things we'll have to live with to keep the old building, and those are things like space, amenities, mobility, etc. We may or may not be able to ever have 2nd deck concourses, concessions and restrooms. Or maybe there is a brilliant way to make those types of things happen. I have to admit that the sight lines and closeness to the court are things that I would miss if we went to a spacious new building.

Bad- You are right the 4th street side is probably stuck that way. However, you could gain space from the Pavillion side on the west and a lot of space toward University on the south. You gut out the current interior and build out toward the street you could even have concessions and bathrooms on the 2nd floor. So by widening the concourses on the two sides you would to some degree loosen up the space in the whole building by giving people more places to go

 

[howieramone]

Sounds to me like you want to tear everything down except for the roof and outside walls. So what is left of the character? (I'm not trying to be a Richard.) Below bleedsmaroonandgold says don't change a thing - that's a fair view. BGA says he loves the intimate feel (me too and I agree, my favorite seats are second deck, front row, center court).

You are saying change some (a lot of) things, but keep the character. What is the character you want to keep? And is it logistically possible to change the things you want changed without gutting the place?

+1

I had seats behind Ray C. for years. He would pass out stats at halftime!

 

[rrjackIII]

I'm not a structural engineer (even though I took structural engineering classes in school), so take this for what it's worth. It strikes me as a major piece of work - and may not even be feasible - to take those columns out that support the upper deck. In order for that upper deck to become a cantilever, it may have to be completely disassembled or replaced. In any case, a completely new structural support system and/or foundation would become necessary. Doing so might require very fancy engineering and construction, especially if you want to keep the rest of the building. Again, it may not be feasible or, at the very least, questionable when you consider the benefit. Maybe Gopher Rock would like to weigh in. I think he's a structural guy.

In the bigger picture, the idea of expanding concourses is confined by the outside walls and ultimately by 4th Street. On the University Ave. side, you could keep the old outside wall as an interior wall, but I'm not sure about the 4th Street side. Perhaps the street could be shifted enough to make a difference. In any case, this shapes up as an even more difficult make-it-fit situation than Target Field was.

I feel that, to a certain extent, there are things we'll have to live with to keep the old building, and those are things like space, amenities, mobility, etc. We may or may not be able to ever have 2nd deck concourses, concessions and restrooms. Or maybe there is a brilliant way to make those types of things happen. I have to admit that the sight lines and closeness to the court are things that I would miss if we went to a spacious new building.

I think I remember this discussion about 40 or 50 years ago - and probably from no less of a structural genius than SIR SID. If memory serves there were earlier discussions to improve sight lines but the 'experts' said there was no way to remove the beams that support the 2nd deck. Somehow, the whole barn would collapse if those beams were removed.

 

[goldengophers]

A visit to Europe reveals such a deep divide in the thinking that goes into the construction of buildings compared to the US. For example, in cities all over Germany there are classic structures that were heavily damaged by WWII bombing, and later painstakingly put back together, brick by brick. One of my favorites is the Munich Frauenkirche, which was almost entirely destroyed during the war but looks awesome today. This line of thinking continues today as cities all over Europe often spend MORE to refurbish and rebuild aging structures instead of level them to start over. Meanwhile, I have a book titled "Lost Twin Cities" which is an entire publication of incredible buildings here that have been demolished over the years. If it costs $1.99 to build something new and $2.00 to refurbish something old, it is an American tradition to save that $.01 nearly every time.

So, I understand there are people more than ready to line up William's Arena get imploded. I doubt these minds could be changed. However, for me... I really like the idea of a remodel/refresh with the other third of the building turned into a first class practice facility. I love William's Arena... right down to the smell when I am there. I realize there are obstructed seats, narrow concourses, etc. I would love to see most of these items worked on in a remodel with the goal to preserve Williams overall. I see people now blaming Williams for the overall state of the program. I think Williams Arena has far less to do with the state of the program than things like academic scandals, ACL injuries, Mall of America shoplifting sprees, and head scratching player transfers.

I would just be sick to find Williams Arena in "Lost Twin Cities, Volume II" someday.

100% agree, it we be incredibly stupid to see Williams imploded as a BWW's operates in a fire station from 1893 across the street.