Sid: at least 3 good-sized contributions have been made to get fundraising close

Donate To GopherHole
maybe he was referring to the $100 I sent in right before the new year...tax deductible to boot!
 

Maybe I’m wrong but I can’t imagine the OSU and OR fans are saying, “Hey, were just happy to be here. It doesn’t matter who wins, as long as we all have fun and get participation ribbons.” I’d hazard to guess even the likes of Rutgers and PSU fans took the pizza and pin-head bowls pretty seriously.

I think 9-4 with a bowl win and a national ranking would have looked a lot better than 8-5 and being unranked. I would not underestimate the psychological impacts on recruiting, fans attendance, etc. that result from a bowl game win or loss, national ranking, and overall record. Unless they were being sarcastic, I just heard on the radio this morning as I was flipping through the stations about 15-seconds of bitching about Kill’s record when being down at halftime and that he is not getting it done.

Most GH’s are already on the bandwagon but I think there are still quite a few people waiting on the sidelines to see if they want to jump on. Say what you want but the WI and Mizzou losses to close out the season did not help matters despite all the other good things that happened this season. Yes, I think the good outweighed the bad but it would have been nice to put an exclamation mark on the season.

Go Gophers!
 

Mulligan said:
As someone who was a marine and I suppose a real man, there might have been derision, but I can also tell you there was jealousy even back then. A hell of a lot more people like nice things instead of preferring to be masochists. It's fundamentally stupid, but if you're going to play the game against the big boys, don't handicap yourself.
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I was in the Air Force myself back in the 80's. In Korea, we used to drive past there the Korean troops were stationed. Their weight equipment was rocks. Actual rocks. They used rocks with holes drilled in them for weight lifting. It's easy to say that you don't need luxuries, but most people prefer to have them given the choice. I don't know what things are like now, they were just phasing out vacuum tubes in our equipment when I got out.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Can you explain your rationale? It counts as a win just like the other 12 games. Further, it's always against an opponent that is at least decent, and sometimes even great. So why would you not care and place little importance on winning it?
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Can you? Do you have to be a dink every day?
 



dpodoll68 said:
What do you mean? I just did. How is holding an opposing viewpoint being a "dink"? Contribute to the conversation or STFU.
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Yes contribute to the conversation or STFU. You can have an opinion without deriding others with a different opinion but you choose not to. For some reason you think you are the only one with a fact and everyone else just has misguided opinions. That makes you a dink and you do it all the time.
 

GopherHomer said:
Fine. Strike the word "exhibition" from my post...it was only used as hyperbole anyhow. My point remains that I doubt any high level donors pulled their money because we lost to Missouri. Obviously many may disagree with my assessment of bowl games, but in terms of importance I put them below all other regular season games (unless of course we are talking about the playoffs).
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You'd put a nationally televised game against an SEC division winner below a game against NMSU televised on Aggievision (I know that game was last year) in terms of importance? I guess how important games are relative to each other is a subjective viewpoint, so I really can't say you are wrong, but I can say I vehemently disagree.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Yes contribute to the conversation or STFU. You can have an opinion without deriding others with a different opinion but you choose not to. For some reason you think you are the only one with a fact and everyone else just has misguided opinions. That makes you a dink and you do it all the time.
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Seriously, untwist your panties and get your nose out of my taint. I made a very benign argument in opposition to his opinion. If it were anyone else, you wouldn't have said a word. Because it's me, you're at full turgidity and itching for a fight. Get over it and deal with my presence here.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Seriously, untwist your panties and get your nose out of my taint. I made a very benign argument in opposition to his opinion. If it were anyone else, you wouldn't have said a word. Because it's me, you're at full turgidity and itching for a fight. Get over it and deal with my presence here.
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You are right...if it isn't you everywhere on this board doing it to everyone all the time I wouldn't have said a thing. But is you and you are doing it over and over and yes, today, I don't want to deal with it and find I am itching to give you some of your BS back to you.
 



GopherHomer said:
Fine. Strike the word "exhibition" from my post...it was only used as hyperbole anyhow. My point remains that I doubt any high level donors pulled their money because we lost to Missouri. Obviously many may disagree with my assessment of bowl games, but in terms of importance I put them below all other regular season games (unless of course we are talking about the playoffs).
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I think the television audience, national media attention and prestige of the New Years Day bowl, even if it isn't what it used to be, make the bowl game a bit more important than you beleive. But as far as donors go, as long as we don't embarrass ourselves in the game, I think you are right. They are going to donate based on other factors than a single win or loss.
 


GopherinPhilly said:
I think the television audience, national media attention and prestige of the New Years Day bowl, even if it isn't what it used to be, make the bowl game a bit more important than you beleive. But as far as donors go, as long as we don't embarrass ourselves in the game, I think you are right. They are going to donate based on other factors than a single win or loss.
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Some look at the game as an exhibition, but it is far from it. It counts for record. It counts for stats for the season and career. It counts for bonuses and raises for potential coaches. It counts for getting coaches fired. (Texas Tech) It counts for the 20,000 fans that spent $ and went to the game. It counts for the fans that are critical of the coaching decisions in the game. etc. etc.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Can you explain your rationale? It counts as a win just like the other 12 games. Further, it's always against an opponent that is at least decent, and sometimes even great. So why would you not care and place little importance on winning it?
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Sure (and sorry you got blasted for asking me a legit/fair question). I just find bowl games "gimmicky." Obviously, the games matter and the stats count and all that but they don't carry much weight for me (it's fine if they do for other people).

To me, conference games are the most important because I will always judge the Gophers against their in-conference peers. I also personally hold more importance for the regular season non-conference games (maybe because they come first and I'm always super excited...I don't know)...put it this way: I would be more upset to lose to Missouri in September than January/December. When I look back on the 2013, for example, I remember the Nebraska win and all the good times, while the Syracuse loss doesn't even register. I concede, though, that not everyone shares my views and there is value in winning bowl games.
 



GopherHomer said:
Sure (and sorry you got blasted for asking me a legit/fair question). I just find bowl games "gimmicky." Obviously, the games matter and the stats count and all that but they don't carry much weight for me (it's fine if they do for other people).

To me, conference games are the most important because I will always judge the Gophers against their in-conference peers. I also personally hold more importance for the regular season non-conference games (maybe because they come first and I'm always super excited...I don't know)...put it this way: I would be more upset to lose to Missouri in September than January/December. When I look back on the 2013, for example, I remember the Nebraska win and all the good times, while the Syracuse loss doesn't even register. I concede, though, that not everyone shares my views and there is value in winning bowl games.
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Fair points all around. Thanks for the response.
 

GopherHomer said:
Sure (and sorry you got blasted for asking me a legit/fair question). I just find bowl games "gimmicky." Obviously, the games matter and the stats count and all that but they don't carry much weight for me (it's fine if they do for other people).

To me, conference games are the most important because I will always judge the Gophers against their in-conference peers. I also personally hold more importance for the regular season non-conference games (maybe because they come first and I'm always super excited...I don't know)...put it this way: I would be more upset to lose to Missouri in September than January/December. When I look back on the 2013, for example, I remember the Nebraska win and all the good times, while the Syracuse loss doesn't even register. I concede, though, that not everyone shares my views and there is value in winning bowl games.
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Bowl games are a big deal in recruiting. Especially a game like the Citrus Bowl on a national stage against a good opponent, winning those games goes a long way to improving your national perception and as we all know we don't have the recruits locally to get over the hump so we need that national recognition.
 

GopherHomer said:
Sure (and sorry you got blasted for asking me a legit/fair question). I just find bowl games "gimmicky." Obviously, the games matter and the stats count and all that but they don't carry much weight for me (it's fine if they do for other people).

To me, conference games are the most important because I will always judge the Gophers against their in-conference peers. I also personally hold more importance for the regular season non-conference games (maybe because they come first and I'm always super excited...I don't know)...put it this way: I would be more upset to lose to Missouri in September than January/December. When I look back on the 2013, for example, I remember the Nebraska win and all the good times, while the Syracuse loss doesn't even register. I concede, though, that not everyone shares my views and there is value in winning bowl games.
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I'm with you on conference games. In both basketball and football, I am a big believer in measuring ourselves against Big Ten competition who I think we should regard as our relevant measuring stick. Going back to your earlier post, can you honestly say that if we had won the game, you would be tempering your enthusiasm because it was just an "out of conference exhibition game" (hyperbole or not)? I just really feel like minimizing the importance of the game is something we do after we have lost it, not before the game or after we win it (though admittedly how we would react to winning a bowl game is something I can only speculate about as we have not done it during my time in college or after).
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I'm with you on conference games. In both basketball and football, I am a big believer in measuring ourselves against Big Ten competition who I think we should regard as our relevant measuring stick. Going back to your earlier post, can you honestly say that if we had won the game, you would be tempering your enthusiasm because it was just an "out of conference exhibition game" (hyperbole or not)? I just really feel like minimizing the importance of the game is something we do after we have lost it, not before the game or after we win it (though admittedly how we would react to winning a bowl game is something I can only speculate about as we have not done it during my time in college or after).
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Alright - I'm officially backing away from my use of the word "exhibition." Let's just blame it on the wine. As to your broader question, if we would have won I probably would NOT be on Gopherhole trying to downplay the importance of the outcome because I would be excited for the team (as I am for all their victories). I just don't think my overall opinion of the 2014/15 Gopher football team (or for where the team is headed) had the potential to be swayed in either direction depending on the Missouri game.

Also, I don't want people to think I'm minimizing the importance of the game...I'm just minimizing the importance of the outcome of the game. The first half was basically an amazing 1.5 hour commercial for Minnesota/Kill narrated by Mike Patrick (I think that's who was doing play-by-play). In the long run, I think recruits/donors (to at least somewhat stay true to the thread topic) will care more about what bowl game you participate in than if you actually win.
 

Mulligan said:
As someone who was a marine and I suppose a real man, there might have been derision, but I can also tell you there was jealousy even back then. A hell of a lot more people like nice things instead of preferring to be masochists. It's fundamentally stupid, but if you're going to play the game against the big boys, don't handicap yourself.
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I think there need to be adequate facilities but IMNSHO gold plated urinals, a barber shop (Oregon), a fighting ring (Tennessee) go under the category of nice to have.

I also think there is some value to promoting a tougher image when we don't have natural recruiting advantages. Men want to be challenged. We should own the cold image of MN, not run from it. "Where Men are made". Jerry Kill is an old drill instructor, at heart.

The real importance of facilities would be very evident the minute the NCAA goes to pay for play, as so many of you want. Facilities would rank far behind salaries and benefits.

The primary factor for most players is "can this school give me the best shot at the NFL". That's it, despite all this other garbage, including "facilities".

Administrators building monuments to themselves, over the top luxury spas for the players just seems like a waste. NC state has a 103,000 sq ft facility.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I think there need to be adequate facilities but IMNSHO gold plated urinals, a barber shop (Oregon), a fighting ring (Tennessee) go under the category of nice to have.

I also think there is some value to promoting a tougher image when we don't have natural recruiting advantages. Men want to be challenged. We should own the cold image of MN, not run from it. "Where Men are made". Jerry Kill is an old drill instructor, at heart.

The real importance of facilities would be very evident the minute the NCAA goes to pay for play, as so many of you want. Facilities would rank far behind salaries and benefits.

The primary factor for most players is "can this school give me the best shot at the NFL". That's it, despite all this other garbage, including "facilities".

Administrators building monuments to themselves, over the top luxury spas for the players just seems like a waste. NC state has a 103,000 sq ft facility.
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I was thinking the same thing the other day. We can sell the idea of "come be a real man up in the tundra", it has a nice tough guy feel to it. The trick is to make sure none of the recruits actually show up for visits when it is 20 below. We need to talk up the being a tough guy in the cold, but do it when the recruits are here in May.
 

So much for updates as to the facilities.
 

I was pretty down after the game, but not so much after a a little reflection. It was an important game for sure, but if I could change one result this season, it would definitely be one of our 4 regular season losses. The bowl loss streak doesn't bother me very much due to it's limited sample size and extenuating circumstances. Texas Tech and Missouri were better than us. Kansas was Brew and his new (15 practice) power running offense. We beat ISU if Gray doesn't fumble. Syracuse we should have pounded and is still befuddling. I don't think the Mason bowl games have any relevance at all. Still a great and very fun season. If I told you in 2010 that we'd score 30 straight in Ann Arbor and take the Jug, score 51 straight against Iowa and take Floyd, and win in Lincoln coming back from a 21-7 deficit you may have questioned my sanity.
 

GopherHomer said:
Sure (and sorry you got blasted for asking me a legit/fair question). I just find bowl games "gimmicky." Obviously, the games matter and the stats count and all that but they don't carry much weight for me (it's fine if they do for other people).

To me, conference games are the most important because I will always judge the Gophers against their in-conference peers. I also personally hold more importance for the regular season non-conference games (maybe because they come first and I'm always super excited...I don't know)...put it this way: I would be more upset to lose to Missouri in September than January/December. When I look back on the 2013, for example, I remember the Nebraska win and all the good times, while the Syracuse loss doesn't even register. I concede, though, that not everyone shares my views and there is value in winning bowl games.
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I tend to agree with you for the most part. You aren't the only one.
 

balds said:
Texas Tech and Missouri were better than us.
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I know that it makes it easier to swallow to believe that Missouri was simply better than us. But were they, really?



Missouri lost a HOME game vs 4-8 Indiana. I'd say our ROAD loss vs bowl bound Illinois was a far more understandable loss.

Missouri lost a HOME game 0-34 to Georgia. I'd say our 7-30 ROAD loss to a much superior TCU team was far more understandable.

Missouri lost by 29 points to Bama in a nuetral site game. I'd say our 7 point loss to an OSU team that beat Bama is far more impressive.


And yes, we had 4 losses and they only had 3. But they played the easiest possible SEC scedule an SEC team could possibly play. They played a total of TWO ranked teams and lost to those two teams by a combined 63 pts.

We played FIVE ranked teams, and combined went 1-4 vs them, by a negative point margin of only 52 points.

And the one additional loss of ours that hasn't been mentioned yet was a ROAD game vs Wisconsin, where we were only down by 3 points with less than 5 minutes left in the game. So with less than 5 minutes left in the last game of the conf season, we were only a TD away from winning the Div Title.


Outside of those 3 losses, Missouri didn't beat a single ranked team before playing Minnesota in the bowl game.


I'd say our win over Nebraska, a ranked team, combined with all I mentioned above about the losses, shows that if it had not been for the VERY OBVIOUS BIAS towards the SEC and against the B1G before the bowl games, Minnesota should have been ranked higher than Missouri.


Missouri played only ONE team with more than 9 wins, and lost to them on a nuetral field by 29 points. One of the two teams with 9 wins that Mizzou played went the entire AAC conf season without playing either Cincy or Memphis and lost to 2-10 Connecticut and also lost a home game vs PSU. NONE of the 3 AAC co-Conf Champs even made it into the rankings, and Cincy lost to a 6-6 VT team in their bowl game. The other 9 win team that Mizzou played beat them 34-0.


In contrast, UMn played FOUR teams with 12, 11, 10 and 10 wins. And beat a 9 win Nebraska team that is still, to this point, a ranked team.



So before you go consoling yourself by thinking that we simply got beat by a better team, look at each team's season prior to the bowl game, objectively and with the knowledge of what OSU, TCU, MSU, Wisc, PSU and Rutgers all did in their bowl games and what the SEC did in their bowl games, and then tell me that you still believe Missouri was the better team going into that bowl game.


And don't let the results of the bowl game skew your view of each team's season. Minnesota had THE BETTER SEASON compared to Missouri. I watched the game and I believe we gave Missouri that game. I don't believe that they were simply better and outplayed us.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
I know that it makes it easier to swallow to believe that Missouri was simply better than us. But were they, really?



Missouri lost a HOME game vs 4-8 Indiana. I'd say our ROAD loss vs bowl bound Illinois was a far more understandable loss.

Missouri lost a HOME game 0-34 to Georgia. I'd say our 7-30 ROAD loss to a much superior TCU team was far more understandable.

Missouri lost by 29 points to Bama in a nuetral site game. I'd say our 7 point loss to an OSU team that beat Bama is far more impressive.


And yes, we had 4 losses and they only had 3. But they played the easiest possible SEC scedule an SEC team could possibly play. They played a total of TWO ranked teams and lost to those two teams by a combined 63 pts.

We played FIVE ranked teams, and combined went 1-4 vs them, by a negative point margin of only 52 points.

And the one additional loss of ours that hasn't been mentioned yet was a ROAD game vs Wisconsin, where we were only down by 3 points with less than 5 minutes left in the game. So with less than 5 minutes left in the last game of the conf season, we were only a TD away from winning the Div Title.


Outside of those 3 losses, Missouri didn't beat a single ranked team before playing Minnesota in the bowl game.


I'd say our win over Nebraska, a ranked team, combined with all I mentioned above about the losses, shows that if it had not been for the VERY OBVIOUS BIAS towards the SEC and against the B1G before the bowl games, Minnesota should have been ranked higher than Missouri.


Missouri played only ONE team with more than 9 wins, and lost to them on a nuetral field by 29 points. One of the two teams with 9 wins that Mizzou played went the entire AAC conf season without playing either Cincy or Memphis and lost to 2-10 Connecticut and also lost a home game vs PSU. NONE of the 3 AAC co-Conf Champs even made it into the rankings, and Cincy lost to a 6-6 VT team in their bowl game. The other 9 win team that Mizzou played beat them 34-0.


In contrast, UMn played FOUR teams with 12, 11, 10 and 10 wins. And beat a 9 win Nebraska team that is still, to this point, a ranked team.



So before you go consoling yourself by thinking that we simply got beat by a better team, look at each team's season prior to the bowl game, objectively and with the knowledge of what OSU, TCU, MSU, Wisc, PSU and Rutgers all did in their bowl games and what the SEC did in their bowl games, and then tell me that you still believe Missouri was the better team going into that bowl game.


And don't let the results of the bowl game skew your view of each team's season. Minnesota had THE BETTER SEASON compared to Missouri. I watched the game and I believe we gave Missouri that game. I don't believe that they were simply better and outplayed us.
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I did not miss these novels.
 


Not sure about you guys, but I have more friends than I know what to do with. So I'm actually quite relieved that you don't want to be my friend. lol
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
I know that it makes it easier to swallow to believe that Missouri was simply better than us. But were they, really?



Missouri lost a HOME game vs 4-8 Indiana. I'd say our ROAD loss vs bowl bound Illinois was a far more understandable loss.

Missouri lost a HOME game 0-34 to Georgia. I'd say our 7-30 ROAD loss to a much superior TCU team was far more understandable.

Missouri lost by 29 points to Bama in a nuetral site game. I'd say our 7 point loss to an OSU team that beat Bama is far more impressive.


And yes, we had 4 losses and they only had 3. But they played the easiest possible SEC scedule an SEC team could possibly play. They played a total of TWO ranked teams and lost to those two teams by a combined 63 pts.

We played FIVE ranked teams, and combined went 1-4 vs them, by a negative point margin of only 52 points.

And the one additional loss of ours that hasn't been mentioned yet was a ROAD game vs Wisconsin, where we were only down by 3 points with less than 5 minutes left in the game. So with less than 5 minutes left in the last game of the conf season, we were only a TD away from winning the Div Title.


Outside of those 3 losses, Missouri didn't beat a single ranked team before playing Minnesota in the bowl game.


I'd say our win over Nebraska, a ranked team, combined with all I mentioned above about the losses, shows that if it had not been for the VERY OBVIOUS BIAS towards the SEC and against the B1G before the bowl games, Minnesota should have been ranked higher than Missouri.


Missouri played only ONE team with more than 9 wins, and lost to them on a nuetral field by 29 points. One of the two teams with 9 wins that Mizzou played went the entire AAC conf season without playing either Cincy or Memphis and lost to 2-10 Connecticut and also lost a home game vs PSU. NONE of the 3 AAC co-Conf Champs even made it into the rankings, and Cincy lost to a 6-6 VT team in their bowl game. The other 9 win team that Mizzou played beat them 34-0.


In contrast, UMn played FOUR teams with 12, 11, 10 and 10 wins. And beat a 9 win Nebraska team that is still, to this point, a ranked team.



So before you go consoling yourself by thinking that we simply got beat by a better team, look at each team's season prior to the bowl game, objectively and with the knowledge of what OSU, TCU, MSU, Wisc, PSU and Rutgers all did in their bowl games and what the SEC did in their bowl games, and then tell me that you still believe Missouri was the better team going into that bowl game.


And don't let the results of the bowl game skew your view of each team's season. Minnesota had THE BETTER SEASON compared to Missouri. I watched the game and I believe we gave Missouri that game. I don't believe that they were simply better and outplayed us.
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BINGO, Pinkel and his staff took our staff to school. :(
 

Getting back to the original point of the thread:

As far as fund raising (and recruiting, as well) - the die-hard fans may be able to look at the entire season in evaluating the Gophers - but for the casual fans, recruits from other regions of the country - and yes, for potential donors to the facilities project - the last image of Gopher FB this season is a team losing the last game of the season. Winning that final game sends everyone into the off-season - AND the final recruiting push - on a high note. Losing the game leaves everyone with a sour taste.

I would be willing to bet that Lou Nanne and his fund-raising crew were NOT happy with the bowl loss. Winning 9 games and beating an SEC team in a New Year's Day bowl would have been a nice selling point for donors and recruits. Lose the game, and the selling point becomes a lot trickier, because you're back to selling a promise, not a reality.

Unfortunately, until Kill wins a bowl game, his failure to win a bowl is going to be the narrative.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Getting back to the original point of the thread:

As far as fund raising (and recruiting, as well) - the die-hard fans may be able to look at the entire season in evaluating the Gophers - but for the casual fans, recruits from other regions of the country - and yes, for potential donors to the facilities project - the last image of Gopher FB this season is a team losing the last game of the season. Winning that final game sends everyone into the off-season - AND the final recruiting push - on a high note. Losing the game leaves everyone with a sour taste.

I would be willing to bet that Lou Nanne and his fund-raising crew were NOT happy with the bowl loss. Winning 9 games and beating an SEC team in a New Year's Day bowl would have been a nice selling point for donors and recruits. Lose the game, and the selling point becomes a lot trickier, because you're back to selling a promise, not a reality.

Unfortunately, until Kill wins a bowl game, his failure to win a bowl is going to be the narrative.
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Ornery norwegian is "spot on". I was a little apprehensive when we were matched up against the runner up of the SEC but I have enough confidence in Jerry Kill and his staff that I felt if we were on our "A" game we could pull this one out. Unfortunately, Jerry and his staff are now 0-5 in bowl games and you can only sell the program so long without finishing the season out right. This is probably an unpopular point of view but I would have preferred a match up with a team ranked more closely to what we were ranked and pull out a win than play on New Year's day and lose another bowl game. This loss was a missed opportunity to sell the program to donors and recruits alike.
 

Friend of the U said:
Ornery norwegian is "spot on". I was a little apprehensive when we were matched up against the runner up of the SEC but I have enough confidence in Jerry Kill and his staff that I felt if we were on our "A" game we could pull this one out. Unfortunately, Jerry and his staff are now 0-5 in bowl games and you can only sell the program so long without finishing the season out right. This is probably an unpopular point of view but I would have preferred a match up with a team ranked more closely to what we were ranked and pull out a win than play on New Year's day and lose another bowl game. This loss was a missed opportunity to sell the program to donors and recruits alike.
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I think I agree that it would have been better to draw a lesser ranked opponent and beat them in a lesser bowl than lose on New Years Day, but the thing is, I think Missouri was beatable and the chance to beat an SEC team ranked in the Top 20 on New Year's Day would have been HUGE!!! It would have added several bricks to the building project Kill has going here. It would have gotten the attention of alot of the casual Minnesota sports fans who are not diehard Gopher fans but who will follow them once they think they are for real.


Beating the Illini, honestly, probably wouldn't have changed much perception wise, other than maybe we would have been ranked a few spots better, but beating any one of these 3, OSU, Wisconsin or Missouri, all games we had opportunities to win, would have really made an impression on those on the fence Minnesota sports fans.

But we are getting closer.


In Mason's 2nd year here, and in Kill's 2nd year here, we had several games where we got blown out and were no where near winning the games.


Only the TCU game was like that this year. And OSU and Wisconsin are both Top Ten teams. That's progress. We're just going to have to trust that Kill will continue to build this program up and that eventually we will win more of those games. We beat Nebraska in back to back seasons, that is huge. The pummeling of Iowa is also a sign of progress. And we'll have to hope that he figures out how to win a bowl game.
 

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