Shortell's Grade vs Iowa

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

There is literally nothing, NOTHING, to confirm this other than your quite obvious bias against Gray. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, favors Gray, whether you look at wins and losses, stats, experience, leadership, overall team performance, etc., etc. Stop trying to pretend like you're unbiased and that almost everyone except you is treating Gray with kid gloves. He's the better football player, and the better QB. To argue otherwise is to come from a position with no basis. I don't know why you treat Gray with an attitude that could best be described as contempt.

Yikes. Nerve struck.

To each his own. I'm fine with that. I'm completely fine with how this whole thing plays out and how the coaches decide to dole out the playing time. I would imagine, like anything else, that this will sort itself as the season progresses and after the next 7 games (hopefully 8), things will be a lot more clear to everyone, myself included I'm sure.

My college coach always said "the cream rises to the top", and I wholeheartedly agree and it almost always does. This issue won't be decided in this forum, that much I know.

 

[play hard]

Lets give Max some experience. If we would have lost to UNLV you would have had Gray's head as he missed so many receivers. Iowa is much better team than UNLV and we caught Iowa in a bad time. Homecoming after gettting embarrased the week before. We got beat up front on both sides of the ball ! We couldn't stop the run and we didn't run the ball. Lets not blame the loss on the QB.

 

[dpodoll68]

Things are perfectly clear. Gray is the better football player, and the better QB. Might Shortell be better next year, in 2014, or even later this year? Possibly. Right now, it isn't close. There is literally not a single piece of evidence to suggest otherwise. I don't understand why some like to pretend that there's even a debate to be had.

 

[play hard]

Didn't Gray have a healthy offense line ? Max played with 2 starters out of five out !! Lets get real here. Teams will be 9 in the box and stop his running so not even close who has the best arm. Gray strength is a runner and not a passer. Max strength is passing so I would think both would be used in games forthcoming. Hopefully we will get Tommy Olson and Zach Mottola healthy for Northwestern which will be much needed

 

[Stan The Caddy]

I agree with you DPO. Shortell rarely, if ever, stepped into a throw on Saturday against Iowa. His mechanics were very poor and led to several under and overthrows. In addition, we cannot ignore what has happened in the BT game Max has started. Michigan, Purdue and Iowa. Each game was essentially over by halftime and as poor as the defense played, the offense did NOTHING to help them out.

 

[dpodoll68]

Didn't Gray have a healthy offense line ? Max played with 2 starters out of five out !! Lets get real here. Teams will be 9 in the box and stop his running so not even close who has the best arm. Gray strength is a runner and not a passer. Max strength is passing so I would think both would be used in games forthcoming. Hopefully we will get Tommy Olson and Zach Mottola healthy for Northwestern which will be much needed

If Shortell's such a better passer, why are Gray's passing numbers all much, much better?

 

[John Galt]

The problem is this: both quarterbacks have warts and neither could be a starter on a Big Ten team that wins 8 games this year. Shortell is given more rope because he has 31 college football games left in his career in which to improve, while Gray has 7.

 

[play hard]

He played a Big Ten team on the Road that was very hungry. You have to give them credit. Did Gray win a big ten game last year on the road ? Not that easy! Lets see how Max does with two weeks to prepare for a HOME Big Ten game.

 

[John Galt]

If Shortell's such a better passer, why are Gray's passing numbers all much, much better?

Stupid question. Gray played against UNLV, UNH, and 1 quarter against Western Michigan. Shortell played against Syracuse and Iowa. And I think Gray should be the starter.

 

[play hard]

Could be a few weeks until he can run so I guess its a mute point. Lets support Shortell and the team against Northwestern. Hopefully he plays like Western Michigan and the team rallies for a big win !

 

[Parski1]

------------ End of Thread ------------------------

 

[GophersInIowa]

Didn't Gray have a healthy offense line ? Max played with 2 starters out of five out !! Lets get real here. Teams will be 9 in the box and stop his running so not even close who has the best arm. Gray strength is a runner and not a passer. Max strength is passing so I would think both would be used in games forthcoming. Hopefully we will get Tommy Olson and Zach Mottola healthy for Northwestern which will be much needed

In what way have teams been able to stop his running in the past? He had nearly 1,000 yards last year which included a 4.8 yds/carry average in the Big Ten. Even if they have been loading the box, he's still been pretty good at running the ball.

 

[SonOfTheVarsity]

Did Gray win a big ten game last year on the road?

No, but he played many times better in B1G road games than Max. Gray almost led us to an upset over a good MSU team in East Lansing, and played fairly well (at least compared to Shortell) @NU last year.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

My point was in no way made as a shot at Marquies Gray.

BS. He's not on scholarship because the staff has low expectations for him. He played the game, he had multiple weeks to prepare to be the starter going in, and he'll get a grade like everyone else.

If Gray's game at UNLV was "horrible", then Shortell's Iowa game was "abominably flambéed roadkill on I-35 putrescent".

Also, to counter those who suggest that Shortell starting "opens up the run game", MV pointed out that we have rushed for 200 yards as a team 5 times over the past 2 seasons. Gray was the starter in each.

I guess I wasn't very clear in my point or thinking. I look at Max Shortell as the back up QB, who is filling in right now, not the starter hence my relunctance to give him a full grade or an Incomplete. You made your point Shortell played a horrible game but I'm not going to totally diss the kid because of it he was making his fourth start. The whole team had a lousy game against Iowa for the most part everyone can agree about that.
Could he Shortell have played better yes, would it have likely resulted in us winning the game I am relunctant to say that. We could not stop Weisman or the run and it didn't look like that was going to change on Saturday.
Iowa had everything going for them, and they were clearly more physical and whipped the Gophers butts. Should I call out #91 Alex Keith for having a horrible game at left defensive end a true undersized freshman? Or Mike Rallis ir Keanon Cooper for vacating there gaps to often, and running to the same spots, no it is not necessary. We are a better team, with Marquies Gray at QB and I would not argue that point with anyone. I wasn't trying to absolve Max from playing bad he at best deserves a C- to D for Saturday.
For me it is easier to have higher expectations for Marquies Gray instead of the back up QB because he has been here, and is the Starter at QB. That and he is a leader on the team. gray is the better player at this point in time, even the coaches have said that he is the starter and we need him to win football games. Gray has more than earned the spot and we need him healthy to win Big 10 games. Heck Gray was as responsible as anyone as to why we beat Iowa the last two years. Either way yes Max played bad Saturday and Gray we need him back.

 

[Killjoy]

This issue won't be decided in this forum, that much I know.

Damm! Do you mean I won't get the answer from this blog? What a disappointment!

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Stupid question. Gray played against UNLV, UNH, and 1 quarter against Western Michigan. Shortell played against Syracuse and Iowa. And I think Gray should be the starter.

Actually it's not a stupid question.

Syracuse and Iowa were both defenses that weren't very good (prior to playing against the Gophers). Iowa was torched by Central Michigan and Northern Iowa. Syracuse's defense is also NOT good.

The comparison is closer than you might think.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Wow. Impressive apples to apples analysis.

Sooooo, two games this year, with a largely healthy starting O-Line, against UNLV and UNH no less, along with 3 games last year when they at least had a few Seniors on the offensive line is comparable to the starts for Shortell? Okay, what the heck, I can buy that.

Shortell played poorly. I gave him a D. For the same effort, I would have given Gray around a B or B+, because the effort produced on Saturday was much closer to Gray's ceiling than it was for what we should expect from Shortell.

Gray should start this year when healthy, for this reason. There's no sense in battering Shortell's confidence behind a young and inexperienced Offensive Line, not to mention a young and inexperienced receiving corp. It doesn't make sense. Put Gray back there with Freshmen and Sophs on the O-Line and let him see what he can do. He'll run around, occasionally make something happen, and we'll all say what a good runner he is and when he completes a handful of dumpoff passes out of the backfield or to the TE a few yards across the LOS, we'll say how improved he is as a passer. Everyone will be happy.

You picked your side to this issue when the season started. There was nothing Gray or Shortell could have done in their playing time to make you think that Gray is a better QB than Shortell (right now). It was obvious after the UNH when you found a way to criticisize Gray's near perfect game and this just cemented that opinion. There has to be something going on here, because your opinion is completely and utterly void of all common sense. You picked your team and you're sticking with it, no matter what.

What's funny is that your reasoning for your opinion has suddenly changed. JUST LAST WEEK, you said that this year our team is more built for Shortell. His throwing would open up the running game, etc, etc. Now, you're essentially saying that Shortell can't be counted on to make a play on his own and therefore Gray should start, even though he isn't as good.

Second, you are now arguing that Gray will "run around" and trick people into thinking he's a good runner, and dump off some passes and trick people into thinking he's a better thrower. How does that jive with your asanine argument last week that all that mattered was who moved the ball and scored more efficiently? (It was asanine because after the numbers didn't come out to your favor you backed off that statement). You now seem to be staying that despite Gray running for more yardage and passing to TE's and dump off routes, that because those yards are kinda icky...it's not as good.

Oh, and people don't think Gray is a good runner because he runs around on pass plays. We just happen to be Gopher fans and we saw him destroy Illinois last year. We saw him run for that TD against Iowa last year and close the game out by dragging defenders for a first down. It wasn't some mirage that led us to that conclusion, it was him winning Big 10 games with his legs.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Holy crap. The venom on this thread has reached a frightening level.

I'm not sure I understand. Soooo, I'm a mean hating SOB because I haven't put all my faith and trust in a Senior who almost lost to UNLV (Wow) and was well on his way to losing to Western Michigan?

There seems to be a major assumption that the Gophers would have beaten WMU (and the Cuse, for that matter) if Gray would not have gotten hurt. At the time Shortell took over for Gray, WMU had outgained the Gophers 135 yards to 96; WMU was ahead 10-7, the Gophers had mounted one scoring drive of NINE yards, and Gray had put the ball on the ground 2-3 times. The momentum was NOT exactly in the favor of the Rodents.

Assuming the Gophers would be 4-1 right now if Gray had never gotten hurt is a quite an assumption for that matter.

I don't understand the venom. The situation is what it is. We'll all watch the rest of the season unfold, and learn more about the team and both quarterbacks as we go along. If Gray retakes control of the helm and starts looking like a quarterback, producing and winning some games against Big Ten competition, I'll be the FIRST to admit I was wrong and be DELIGHTED to do so.

In all reality, this debate is mostly a moot point. The going will be incredibly tough the rest of the way for either QB with the youth and inexperience on the Offensive Line. I SINCERELY hope that WHOEVER starts the next game or two at least has the regular starters back on the O-Line to help solidify things.

Bob, about a "changing of tune", to that I would reply, ABSOLUTELY I did. When the Iowa game started and I looked down to see two Freshmen and two Sophomores starting on the O-Line against Iowa's three Seniors and one Junior, YES, I had a major change of heart about the success of the offense. Without a doubt. Under those circumstances, there was going to be NO opening up of the running game, successful passing or not.

Let's hope for everyone's sake that the O-Line gets healthy and can start to gain some momentum of their own as the season goes on. This team will ONLY go as far as those five guys take them. Of that, there is little doubt.

 

[John Galt]

Actually it's not a stupid question.

Syracuse and Iowa were both defenses that weren't very good (prior to playing against the Gophers). Iowa was torched by Central Michigan and Northern Iowa. Syracuse's defense is also NOT good.

The comparison is closer than you might think.

Iowa's defense gave up 6 points to Iowa St., and 16 to Northern Iowa. I wouldn't call that getting torched. Yes, they gave up some big yards and points to Central Michigan, but I think that was Iowa's trap game. They were looking ahead to getting revenge on us for the last 2 years, and didn't take that game seriously.

 

[Dr.Don]

------------ End of Thread ------------------------

Nice try, Parski. That attempt was like saying "-----------End of Beer---------" and another buddy comes in says "Let's have a beer." The conversation and the beer drinking continues.

 

[Parski1]

Nice try, Parski. That attempt was like saying "-----------End of Beer---------" and another buddy comes in says "Let's have a beer." The conversation and the beer drinking continues.

I gave it a shot Doc - Some threads just need to end.

 

[station19]

I gave it a shot Doc - Some threads just need to end.

Or you could just quit reading them.

Just saying.

 

[tikited]

In what way have teams been able to stop his running in the past? He had nearly 1,000 yards last year which included a 4.8 yds/carry average in the Big Ten. Even if they have been loading the box, he's still been pretty good at running the ball.

Exactly. Loading the box makes it easier on Gray to complete passes.