Shortell should be the starter

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afurry91 said:
Stop it, Shortell was awful yesterday. The only reason we had a chance was because Gray came back in.
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Stop it, Shortell was average yesterday. I hope you can improve your posting skills as much as we need Gray to improve so Shortell doesn't have to play.
 

2-7 for 20 something yards... ya, he was average. skipping passes in to his receivers. McNabb must have watched him play and decided to duplicate it on sunday.
 

Shake a what?

gopherdudepart2 said:
Coaches see it every day in practice, I will leave it to them to decide who should start. I thought some of the drops by the WR' s almost
seemed intentional by the WR's on Shortell's passes but he misfired too. Keise not even lifting his arms when the ball buzzed so close to him it almost
touched his jersey, that was a bad play by the WR. Mcknight makes that incredible catch and then drops a sure touchdown because he was already in the end zone and focused on it, eye's were a giveaway was bad. Gray needs to gain some decisiveness and stop being so panicked. His fricken O-line needs to man-up and hold there blocks longer then 2-3 seconds. Especially the two tackles need to stop whiffing so much. Olson and Gjere have been O-le'ing just to much. I think part of the whiffing is that the two guards are so ineffective at holding there blocks for any length of time, that the tackles are over compensating for them and the center is the back-up for a reason. Orton needs to get his butt healthy,
and Campion needs to shake the concussion as the guards need to be pushed. Gray must not be able to throw the bubble screens because that play was there all day
and the Gophers did not even try it. All this transition in schemes must be to much for the squads talent level to over come. They should have
been able to win yesterdays game on size alone but could not overcome poor execution by just about all units. When will we have a FG kicker that can make a kick?
Every time you come away with no points is deflating to a team.
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Are you suggesting that a concussion can be shaken off like a bruise or something? Not quite that easy to rewire the brain.
 

This is not the time to shake up the QB spot. When an offense clearly has more issues than just simply "QB play", changing the QB can be very dangerous. We can't run, we struggle to protect. Is that a spot to put a true freshman in? It's bad enough Gray, being so new to the position again has to deal with it.

And not only that, Gray was solid as a receiver, yes. But it's not like he was All-conference here. Why people think it would be so easy for him to just waltz on back over the the WR spot after not playing it for 10 months and in a new offense is beyond me. Real football ain't Madden NFL on PlayStation, you can't just stick people wherever you see fit and they'll play fine because their rating is decent enough and you can tweak a slider to make it work for you. That's not to say there won't be any packages for the two to be on the field together, but full-time? No. Gray is a QB this year for sure.
 

Oneoldgopher said:
Are you suggesting that a concussion can be shaken off like a bruise or something? Not quite that easy to rewire the brain.
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Yeah no kidding. Not taking concussions seriously is an endemic problem in sports that puts the livelihood and lives of players at risk. Just as Coach Kill's health is more important than a game so is the health of the players. Not rushing back from a concussion is not a lack of toughness, it's prudence.
 



It seems like the truth doesn't lie in the idea that either Gray or Shortell is bad. Let's face it folks this team is going to be pretty bad this year regardless. They will win some games but they are headed no where. To me
it seems like Gray is the better option for the moment. But that's for the moment. The way I see it (and I don't know that much about football):
We are not going to be a good running team- the O-line is not ready. But we might be able to run if they are afraid of the pass. It seems Shortell is the better option there.

A team lacking talent should put as many good players on the field as possible. Gray looked like an NFL receiver
last year at times. I would think him, McKnight, Lair and Moulton would be a nightmare to cover. Now the run
becomes more effective.

Why go into next year trying to rework things again? A year at QB and Shortell might be awfully good. So might
Gray, but again, why not put both on the field?

I'd play Shortell at QB and Gray at WR- their natural positions.
 

bga1 said:
It seems like the truth doesn't lie in the idea that either Gray or Shortell is bad. Let's face it folks this team is going to be pretty bad this year regardless. They will win some games but they are headed no where. To me
it seems like Gray is the better option for the moment. But that's for the moment. The way I see it (and I don't know that much about football):
We are not going to be a good running team- the O-line is not ready. But we might be able to run if they are afraid of the pass. It seems Shortell is the better option there.

A team lacking talent should put as many good players on the field as possible. Gray looked like an NFL receiver
last year at times. I would think him, McKnight, Lair and Moulton would be a nightmare to cover. Now the run
becomes more effective.

Why go into next year trying to rework things again? A year at QB and Shortell might be awfully good. So might
Gray, but again, why not put both on the field?

I'd play Shortell at QB and Gray at WR- their natural positions.
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Agreed.
 

How quickly people change their tunes. We all had to sit here and listen to everyone bitch and complain for two years Gray should be starting over Weber and it has taken all of two games for everyone to turn around throw Gray under the bus. So which is it, Gray is the program savior qb or he is two-bit hack qb who should be playing wide receiver?
 



SMU GOPHS FAN said:
How quickly people change their tunes. We all had to sit here and listen to everyone bitch and complain for two years Gray should be starting over Weber and it has taken all of two games for everyone to turn around throw Gray under the bus. So which is it, Gray is the program savior qb or he is two-bit hack qb who should be playing wide receiver?
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Pay close attention. The folks who are defending Gray most adamantly right now are, not coincidentally, the ones who were so adamant that he should have been starting over Weber. Why? It doesn't make the argument that Gray should have started over Weber very strong if it turns out that Gray is a sub-par Big Ten QB.

It's early. I'm hoping Gray gets it together because the Gophers need him desperately. Unfortunately, so far all the available evidence is to the contrary.
 

Well, while I think Gray needs more time , unless there is a big turnaround, the writing is on the wall. Shortellis a Fr. and can't be expected to look like a Jr. or Sr., but IF McKnght catches the ball and scores( like he probably would have) and VK catches his ball Shortell is 4/7 with a TD. And possibly another drive as VK ball would have been a 1st down. Gray's future in the NFLis at rec. and he would help our team at WR. We know he can catch.
 

It seems fairly clear to me that Brewster did not play Gray for his accuracy issues and field judgement.
 

Holy Knee Jerk reaction! If we are expecting an instant turnaround, it isn't going to happen, unless you want some NCAA infractions. Let's give this sometime. Kill is a good coach and I believe he can win here. Also, I believe he has an idea of who the best QB is and will play that person. I think he put Shortell in the game to light a fire under Gray and it worked somewhat.
 



Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Pay close attention. The folks who are defending Gray most adamantly right now are, not coincidentally, the ones who were so adamant that he should have been starting over Weber. Why? It doesn't make the argument that Gray should have started over Weber very strong if it turns out that Gray is a sub-par Big Ten QB.

It's early. I'm hoping Gray gets it together because the Gophers need him desperately. Unfortunately, so far all the available evidence is to the contrary.
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May be true for others Ogee, but not for me. I was comfortable with Weber starting then and I'm comfortable with Gray right now. As I said earlier in this thread, the thing that does give me some pause is an impression I have that Gray's skills and Kill's system don't match up that well.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Pay close attention. The folks who are defending Gray most adamantly right now are, not coincidentally, the ones who were so adamant that he should have been starting over Weber. Why? It doesn't make the argument that Gray should have started over Weber very strong if it turns out that Gray is a sub-par Big Ten QB.
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I was a full-throated Weber defender last year, and I think the calls for Shortell are dramatically premature, at best. Just like a new coaching staff takes time, so does a new QB. It obviously hasn't been pretty for Gray, but there's a reason Kill kept bringing up that he had a lot of learning to do, had been away from the position for years, etc, all off-season.
Everyone but the fans expected Q to struggle at first. But the fact of the matter is, he's the more gifted athlete (by leaps and bounds), he fits Kill's system better, and if he was playing (and more importantly practicing) with the WRs, we wouldn't have a single capable backup because he wouldn't get any better.
Unless Shortell starts looking dramatically better than Gray, and consistently, he'll continue being the backup/change of pace. It may not be pretty, but it's what we've got. We can only trust the coaches (who I'm fairly certain understand the situation better than anyone here, no offense) and hope that one of these guys gets a lot better, and fast.
 

littlebigboy said:
Well, while I think Gray needs more time , unless there is a big turnaround, the writing is on the wall. Shortellis a Fr. and can't be expected to look like a Jr. or Sr., but IF McKnght catches the ball and scores( like he probably would have) and VK catches his ball Shortell is 4/7 with a TD. And possibly another drive as VK ball would have been a 1st down. Gray's future in the NFLis at rec. and he would help our team at WR. We know he can catch.
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I don't know about you or anyone else here, but last year I was not overly impressed by Gray at WR. I saw a lot of passes that just bounced off his hands that most receivers would have caught. He was probably going through the same growing pains he is right now at QB, just at QB there is a lot more responsibility therefore will be more growing pains. Give the man a chance to grow into the job. And for those suggesting to put him at WR for a couple drives while Shortell is in, he's struggling enough learning the QB job, do you really think he can handle that and learning new plays at WR? Remember this is not the same system as last year so he will have to learn new plays.
 

There seems to be either some poor memory or dishonesty on display here when it comes to discussing people who wanted Weber sat last year. The argument was not that Gray would step in and immediately make the team better, it's that the season was lost and it was time to see what they had in Gray and to start developing him for this year. I don't feel strongly about it one way or the other, but the argument that it would have been better for him to get a handle on the position last year rather than getting reps at receiver does have some merit.
 

Watched Cam Newton start for the Panthers yesterday. Gray has that kind of potential and he doesn't get benched after his first two sarts in four years. Especially two ok starts with a really inexperienced O Line.

We have a great group of coaches and it's nuts to be this negative after two weeks.
 

Look, I love the Gophers! and I love coach Kill! I emailed Maturi after he finally fired Brewster and said Hoke #1 and when it was clear they couldn't get Hoke, I emailed and pushed for Kill. I am so excited about Gopher football and coach Kill! My point is that New Mexico State is one of the worst teams in college football. I can only surmise the huge letdown because of the huge focus and effort geared toward USC for so long, and I was at that game and the Gophs did awesome! I disagreed with Kill leaving Gray in there after the 2nd pick. Scoring 19 points a game (average for first 2 games) will not beat anyone in college football. Gray can still play QB, but give Shortell his chance. Like I said, maybe it will help Gray. I believe and trust in Kill and love him, but I also enjoy having an opinion and that is what this board is for. I don't think the rest of the team is that bad! The most important player on a football team is the QB! Those of you ripping Shortell on here have no basis. What did he have, 3 series? And two of them ended through no fault of his own. He should have had his shot in this game. He should have came in after Gray's second pick and shouldn't have came out unless he had 3 three and outs because of his own fault. I was amazed watching NMSU put 9 guys within 10 yards of the ball and us never throwing it more than 10 to 15 yards. Give Shortell as much of a chance as Gray has had and then let's judge. If he gets as much of an opportunity as Gray and is worse than fine. But all of you posting on here can't say what you are saying when the playing time has been what it is. Shortell has done much more in the time he has had than Gray has with his time. I like Gray, got nothin' against him, but I'm a competitor and want to win. I don't care if it's a true freshman or whatever. You play who gives you the best chance to win, and Gray just lost to NMSU. I don't care what anyone says about the team and it's a team and what about the rest of the team bla bla bla. 21 pts against NMSU. 2 critical picks. Your QB is your leader and you're going nowhere without one. Ya got nothin to lose starting Shortell. Let's have a competition. If it doesn't light a fire under Gray then he wasn't the guy anyway. I'm sick of watching Gray's indecisiveness back there. He better step up. No one on here should accept losing to New Mexico State for God sake! There is not one excuse for that, NOT ONE!!!
 

Start Shortell we lose our only threat to do any running. Just thought I'd point that out since you said there is nothing to lose.
 

ncgo4 said:
Watched Cam Newton start for the Panthers yesterday. Gray has that kind of potential and he doesn't get benched after his first two sarts in four years. Especially two ok starts with a really inexperienced O Line.

We have a great group of coaches and it's nuts to be this negative after two weeks.
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There is no way Gray will even get a look as a QB in the NFL. If he does get a shot it will be as WR so why not play where you have a legit shot? Shortell throwing to Gray & McKnight could be very productive.
 


Seriously?

How is it that not one single person on here knows that Gray started cramping at the end of the first half Saturday and they were still working on him in the third quarter, that's the only reason that Shortell came in. Both of them can be good but I say let Gray finish out this year with Shortell getting some drives and if Gray doesn't improve enough at the end of the year switch him to receiver for all of next season and start Shortell at QB. It would be tough having both of them on the field at the same time this year because if Gray gets hurt at receiver we're down to one true freshman QB. Which would then make us one hit away from being even worse at QB if he went down.
 

NoDakGopher said:
How is it that not one single person on here knows that Gray started cramping at the end of the first half Saturday and they were still working on him in the third quarter, that's the only reason that Shortell came in. Both of them can be good but I say let Gray finish out this year with Shortell getting some drives and if Gray doesn't improve enough at the end of the year switch him to receiver for all of next season and start Shortell at QB. It would be tough having both of them on the field at the same time this year because if Gray gets hurt at receiver we're down to one true freshman QB. Which would then make us one hit away from being even worse at QB if he went down.
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What happens if Gray gets hurt playing QB?
 

Then we're down to Shortell, but at least we would lose him at QB then instead of making the decision of having him play WR and letting him get hurt here. I think we should let Gray finish out the year so Shortell can learn the playbook more and become more comfortable and start him next year. We have some decent QB recruits coming in next year as well. We're short on QB's this year so we just need to keep Gray there and if he can develop by the end of the year, awesome. If not, then put him at WR next season and let him make a push for the NFL
 

bga1 said:
What happens if Gray gets hurt playing QB?
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....also, if Gray is playing WR and Shortell gets hurt, we're down to zero credible quarterbacks (since Gray would regress further as a QB while playing WR), which is the much bigger issue.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Pay close attention. The folks who are defending Gray most adamantly right now are, not coincidentally, the ones who were so adamant that he should have been starting over Weber. Why? It doesn't make the argument that Gray should have started over Weber very strong if it turns out that Gray is a sub-par Big Ten QB.

It's early. I'm hoping Gray gets it together because the Gophers need him desperately. Unfortunately, so far all the available evidence is to the contrary.
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Of course another group exists, people who didn't like Weber and who now don't like Gray as QB. I for one fit both mentioned categories.
 

Oneoldgopher said:
Of course another group exists, people who didn't like Weber and who now don't like Gray as QB. I for one fit both mentioned categories.
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Those aren't mutually exclusive. I wasn't happy with Weber's play, and I'm not happy with Gray's performance so far. But I'm not calling for Shortell to take over, and I wasn't calling for Gray last year. Regardless of whether or not they're right, the coaches, even ones as inept as Brewster, have a much better handle on the situation than I do. Let Kill do his job.
 

Are there really that many posters who believe Gray could just go back to WR? He's currently 240lbs, has not been running any routes or conditioned his body to run routes. I do not think it is possible for Gray to play WR this season for more than a few gadget plays.
 

EG#9 said:
Are there really that many posters who believe Gray could just go back to WR? He's currently 240lbs, has not been running any routes or conditioned his body to run routes. I do not think it is possible for Gray to play WR this season for more than a few gadget plays.
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I think the extent of thinking on the issue is it would work well on NCAA 2012.
 

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