Shortell should be the starter

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Some Day...Maybe

Some Day...Maybe

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I think the Gophers biggest problem is their offense. Kill said you earn your playing time and the best player will play. Shortell is the best QB. He did in a couple of series at USC what took Gray almost 3 quarters, score a touchdown. I think it would help Gray if Shortell was the starter and Gray came off the bench. This would take a lot of pressure off of Gray. Also, it might light a fire under him. When great athletes and great people have their backs against the wall they often step up, he would figure he has nothing to lose when he gets in there and say what the hell and just play, and that's what he needs to do. Gray should have been pulled after the second interception yesterday. Shortell's drives stalled through no fault of his own. McKnight has to make that catch, and what's with Kiese? That ball was right to him and he doesn't even know how to position his hands. Those were two very good 3rd down throws that both should have been caught, Kiese's easily and Mcknight's is a catch a #1 receiver should make and most #1 receivers on teams make all the time. The offense has more spark under Shortell and looks much more in rhythm. It looks out of rhythm and disjointed under Gray. I'm just saying, it would take pressure off Gray, and Shortell is better. It's going to happen eventually, Kill is just allowing himself to have a soft spot in his heart for Gray, and the sooner he get's over it, the better. Kill says competition at every spot and competition is good and brings out the best, so name Shortell your starter and make Gray compete and take the pressure off of him so he can let loose! Because in the first 2 games this offense shows it's going nowhere and won't score enough to win. Mark my words, this will happen and the sooner it happens the better for both QB's, and the team. Be fair to the rest of the players and start Shortell, I'm sure they see what's going on.
 

Stop with this. Is it Gray's fault that we have no running game? That we can't run the ball on 4th and 1?
 

gall0249 said:
Stop with this. Is it Gray's fault that we have no running game? That we can't run the ball on 4th and 1?
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Exactly. Is it also Gray's fault that the defense can't stop anybody? QB play is not the problem with this team IMO. Gray was also making only his second start, he will get better, he got better as the game went along yesterday. How about some patience? Let him grow into the job.
 

I have mixed emotions but tend to agree with either starting or giving Shortell more series during the game. I think one of the biggest problems with the run game is the other teams don't respect Gray's ability to complete mid to deep passes so we are constantly facing 8 or 9 in the box. Yesterday, NMSU had everyone within 10 to 15 yards of the line of scrimmage - that's tough to run against.

We'll see. Long term, not sure either Gray or Shortell is the perfect QB for Kill's system. I think that's where Nelson may come in to play.
 

WOW...after yesterdays game I can't believe this conversation is still going. I actually wasn't hugely disappointed with Grays game...16-32 212 and another 110 rushing....how much were we expecting from him? I actually thought Shortell came down a little bit and missed at least two of his seven throws pretty badly. I can't imagine what this game would look like without Grays ability to run. This is just crazy IMHO
 


mkAz said:
Exactly. Is it also Gray's fault that the defense can't stop anybody? QB play is not the problem with this team IMO. Gray was also making only his second start, he will get better, he got better as the game went along yesterday. How about some patience? Let him grow into the job.
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What game have you been watching? Grays QB play hasn't been the sole reason we suck, but it certainly contributes. Every damn unit on this team has sucked this year except maybe the punting team. Gray has been just downright awful when throwing the ball this year. Yes he can run which is a plus, but he is just a terrible passer. He will get eaten alive when our conference games start.
 

Shortell plays the whole game and we still lose.It will still be Gray's fault.Give me a break.
 

If you didn't think that he progressed as a passer yesterday, what game were you watching? Let me guess you would take Shortells 2-7 including two short hopped passes? I would love to be a backup quarterback...you are instantly better than the starter according to some fans no matter what.
 

kuhlmanalex said:
If you didn't think that he progressed as a passer yesterday, what game were you watching? Let me guess you would take Shortells 2-7 including two short hopped passes? I would love to be a backup quarterback...you are instantly better than the starter according to some fans no matter what.
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2 of Shortell's drive were ended by embarrassing drops on good throws by Shortell. McKnight dropped a ball on a slant that would of been a touchdown and I forget which WR dropped the ball on 3rd and short on a perfectly thrown ball by Shortell into the flat. Shortell also had 1 horrendous throw that should of been intercepted and one terribly overthrown ball.

I just don't get why people think Gray was been throwing well. He looks terrible out there.
 



I like Shortell but saying he should start is a little soon.

Coaches see it every day in practice, I will leave it to them to decide who should start. I thought some of the drops by the WR' s almost
seemed intentional by the WR's on Shortell's passes but he misfired too. Keise not even lifting his arms when the ball buzzed so close to him it almost
touched his jersey, that was a bad play by the WR. Mcknight makes that incredible catch and then drops a sure touchdown because he was already in the end zone and focused on it, eye's were a giveaway was bad. Gray needs to gain some decisiveness and stop being so panicked. His fricken O-line needs to man-up and hold there blocks longer then 2-3 seconds. Especially the two tackles need to stop whiffing so much. Olson and Gjere have been O-le'ing just to much. I think part of the whiffing is that the two guards are so ineffective at holding there blocks for any length of time, that the tackles are over compensating for them and the center is the back-up for a reason. Orton needs to get his butt healthy,
and Campion needs to shake the concussion as the guards need to be pushed. Gray must not be able to throw the bubble screens because that play was there all day
and the Gophers did not even try it. All this transition in schemes must be to much for the squads talent level to over come. They should have
been able to win yesterdays game on size alone but could not overcome poor execution by just about all units. When will we have a FG kicker that can make a kick?
Every time you come away with no points is deflating to a team.
 

Gray's passing accuracy is really poor. NMSU decided to stop the run and let gray's arm beat them and He could not. 50% pass completion will not get it done. Shortell is already the more accurate passer. What was it 1/ 10 on 3rd down conversions? I did not see Gray going thru his progressions. He looked at the first option, tucked and ran. When he does run, he is no Denard Robinson. If he continues to run this much He will not make it thru the season. See M. Vick and D. Robinson last year. I really feel the pass will set up the run. Shortell is the more accurate passer.
On defense for the second straight week the pass defense played way too soft in the first half. Both weeks they tighten up coverage in the second half and played well. Why?
This is a young team. I think 50% of the roster are freshman or red shirt freshman. Yes, there will be growing pains.
I have faith that Coach Kill and his staff knows what's best for the gophers and have forgot more about football then any of us arm chair qb's. Go Gophers!
 

gall0249 said:
Stop with this. Is it Gray's fault that we have no running game? That we can't run the ball on 4th and 1?
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The OP is correct. You can't argue that the running game is what's causing Gray's play to be poor when Shortell is running the SAME offense. SAME running game. BETTER results.

Gray does not look poised. He hesitates, runs under any pressure rather then scramble outside the pocket and recheck the nearest receiver. He also stares down his WR a la Weber. He doesn't know when to throw the ball away and instead takes a sack. He doesn't know how to read defenses let alone adjust to them. He has poor clock management. Even the players say Shortell demands respect in the huddle and takes charge, while Gray does not.

Gray is talented and likely psyching himself out, but the kid also hasn't been a QB in 4 years. If he wants to help the team and help himself get to the NFL, he should be a WR. I personally would like to see both QB's share time AND have Gray occasionally line up at WR. This would create havoc for opponents watching tapes and making their game plans.
 

Stop it, Shortell was awful yesterday. The only reason we had a chance was because Gray came back in.
 



Do you want your QB to play looking over his shoulder and not feeling like the team is really behind him? That's the environment I think you create if you pull the plug on Gray so casually after he's been an absolute team player in every since of the word and put so much into the program without complaint.
 

I think this is the only thing you have to look at:

If a team as BAD as NMSU felt comfortable putting 8 men in the box all game long and taking their chances against Gray's throwing ability, just WHAT do you think the defenses in the rest of the BT are going to do?

Irony of the day. Most of the numbers Gray put up yesterday, with his arm and his feet, were during what last year's Weber bashers would call "garbage time".

It absolutely scares me to death that with Gray at QB, defenses consider the Gophers to have NO threat of a passing game. Period.

That being said, starting Shortell at QB right now is not the answer. It's early, but I see NO way that Gray is the starting QB for the remainder of this season and all of next season, but he should be starting while Shortell is groomed for the position.
 

This is nonsense. Gray is, should be, and will remain the starter. Yesterdays game was an abomination and it wasn't gray's fault.
 

Former Goofer said:
2 of Shortell's drive were ended by embarrassing drops on good throws by Shortell. McKnight dropped a ball on a slant that would of been a touchdown and I forget which WR dropped the ball on 3rd and short on a perfectly thrown ball by Shortell into the flat. Shortell also had 1 horrendous throw that should of been intercepted and one terribly overthrown ball.
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Dropped balls are part of the game. Every QB, including Q experiences them. Shortell was 2/7. Without the drops he would have been 4/7. not exactly mind blowing numbers, and he was unable to generate any spark for the offense. Not a ringing endorsement for a QB switch, especially in light of Q's 100+ rushing yards and demonstrated improvement throughout both games.

The bigger problem right now is line play on both sides of the ball. If we can't get that straightened out, it doesn't matter who is playing QB.
 

Keep in mind gray playing against a defense designed to stop his strengths in the gameplan is a whole different world than playing 2-3 series in the middle. Notice how max has been at his best the first drive he's in games before they make adjustments?


What is max's passing stats against 7 or fewer in the box?


I'll give you a hint, it's worse than his stats as a whole, and his stats as a whole are already worse than grays passing stats.


And don't give me crap about dropped balls. In the first quarter alone there were 4 incompletions that weren't on the QB. 2 bad routes, 1 drop, 1 blown protection that forced a bad throw. All qb's deal with it.

Gray hasn't been good. Gray has been better than Max and it isn't close at this point.
 

Khaliq said:
Do you want your QB to play looking over his shoulder and not feeling like the team is really behind him? That's the environment I think you create if you pull the plug on Gray so casually after he's been an absolute team player in every since of the word and put so much into the program without complaint.
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Ummmmm, I've got news for you, Charlie Brown. Everybody in the field is looking over their shoulder. Why should Gray be any different? This staff has said from Day One that nobody is guaranteed playing time.

I'm sure Gray appreciates that you're concerned about his fragile frame of mind.
 

magpie said:
The OP is correct. You can't argue that the running game is what's causing Gray's play to be poor when Shortell is running the SAME offense. SAME running game. BETTER results.
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Did I miss something? How were Shortell's results BETTER? It would help if you actually watched the game before commenting on it.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Ummmmm, I've got news for you, Charlie Brown. Everybody in the field is looking over their shoulder. Why should Gray be any different? This staff has said from Day One that nobody is guaranteed playing time.

I'm sure Gray appreciates that you're concerned about his fragile frame of mind.
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I'm not sure why there's a need to immediately resort to sarcasm, but while it is self-evident that all positions on the field are up for grabs that's based on players earning their way into the lineup. Players understand when a guy earns his way into a starting position, as would be the case if Shortell made a case with his play to get more drives, however when a move is made capriciously especially at the expense of a leader like Gray the impact on the locker room is not positive.

Shortell has yet to make a compelling case on the field that he would be a better option than Gray at this point. I am confident the staff agrees.
 

Khaliq said:
I'm not sure why there's a need to immediately resort to sarcasm, but while it is self-evident that all positions on the field are up for grabs that's based on players earning their way into the lineup. Players understand when a guy earns his way into a starting position, as would be the case if Shortell made a case with his play to get more drives, however when a move is made capriciously especially at the expense of a leader like Gray the impact on the locker room is not positive.

Shortell has yet to make a compelling case on the field that he would be a better option than Gray at this point. I am confident the staff agrees.
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I totally agree as well. Shortell should not be starting.

That doesn't change the fact that I have not seen anything to lead me to believe that Gray will be a solid BT starting QB. This team NEEDS Gray to be the starting QB and to play well in order to be successful and at this point I just don't see that happening. He looks uncomfortable, he looks confused, he has no pocket presence, and he is horribly inaccurate.

The fact that he ran for a few yards and had some success throwing the ball in the fourth quarter against a bad defense playing prevent defense doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy right now.

I've still got hope that Gray can put it together. Like I said, they need him to be the leader of this team and to play well. I'm just saying it doesn't look good.
 

"Stop it, Shortell was awful yesterday. The only reason we had a chance was because Gray came back in."

Yeah, blame it on Shortell because McKnight & Keise dropped drive ending passes which happened to hit them right in the hands.
 

Gray is having his problems, but I wasn't that impressed with Shortell yesterday. He has some tools and will probably develop into a pretty good QB, but Gray is the better option right now.

Two points, one in favor of Gray and one not:

(1) Does anyone here remember how poorly Terrelle Pryor looked throwing his freshman year? Gray, for all intents and purposes, is a freshman QB. I'm not blaming anyone for that fact and perhaps it should have gone into the calculus as to who should be the starter this season, but Gray has the better skills now.

(2) There may be a mismatch between Kill's offensive scheme and Gray's strengths. Gray looks to be at his best when he's free-wheeling, much like Pryor did for OSU, but it looks like he won't be allowed to do that. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing.
 

running the ball

When Gray is behind center there will always be 8 guys in the box on defense. They do not respect his passing.

With Shortell you will have at least on of the safeties back, so in that sense you would think there would be more running room.

This is all conjecture?
 

I can't believe (well yes I can it is a Gopherhole tradition to blame the QB- I have been on this site for a long time and I can't remember a popular QB) that Gray's leash is so short that people want him pulled after 1.5 games.

I have watched the game twice. Gray was fine. Much bigger problems abound (no running game, only one viable wr, an offensive line that can't push enough to get 1 yard on a 4th down plunge, a D-Line that gets nowhere near the QB).
 

Gray seems is fine, he just starts out slow. As he said, he's still thinking too much. I still see him a bit tentative, even when running the ball. Shortell shows even more promise. His throws seem to be more accurate than Gray's, plus Shortell knows where to throw it to so that his receiver can catch it, which Gray hasn't picked up yet, I'm sure because he hasn't played QB much since coming here. This is a good qb issue to have. I just wish they would start out Gray with some safe throws first to get him comfortable, then open it up more for him.

Even though the stats didn't look great for Shortell in the last game, there were a few drops that would have made a big difference. Especially the one to McKnight, I think he could have ended up in the end zone or at least inside the 5 on that drop. Again, I'm happy to have both Shortell and Gray!
 

I'll speak for myself- I am not blaming the losses on Gray's performance but it might not hurt to have Shortell come in at QB annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd have gray come in as a WR on the same play. at least it is a decoy.
 

Gray is definitely struggling after his first look, but Shortell didn't exactly take the game over either. Everyone looks at the Keise & McKnight drops; look at the last series of Shortell. I try not to assess judgement because I don't know if it was a bad throw/read by the QB or the receiver didn't do something that they were supposed to, but Shortell's last series wasn't exactly inspiring.

I'm guessing the call to put in Shortell was predetermined before the game....Gray's last drive before the half resulted in a 2-minute drill TD. You don't yank a QB on performance reasons after a TD drive unless it's mop up time or injury related.

Stick with the same plan; Gray's the QB, and let Max take a few drives. For his confidence & learning and to take let MQ take a breather, save his body and get a chance to take a step back and watch what's going on ou there...
 

Max played almost the whole third quarter and while he was in the Gophers went 3 and out every possession except 1... Can't blame dropped passes, its part of the game. All QB's experience them. Since there is no stat line the say WR drops- 2 then it doesn't matter because the ball didn't get caught.
 

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