Shooter: 3 Gopher walk-ons have received a scholarship UPDATED 2/24: Bak/Christenson

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Again, I think we're taking for granted that one or two of these aren't renewed walk-on scholarships. A scholarship granted to a walk-on is generally a one-year renewable as I understand it, so 2 of them could easily be Hill and Botticelli, which we're just taking for granted.
 

AShreve20 said:
One option that I don't know has been brought up, but what if these scholarships were made available for the spring semester by someone who already used up all of their eligibility and graduated in December (allowing for walk on be added as mid-year replacement). And no one who still had eligibility remaining or credits left to graduate was forced out, or had scholly pulled. It seems that could be most logical explanation for where these 3 current walk on scholarships came from.

That being said, there very well may be some guys who have eligibility left and won't be back in the fall with their scholly not being renewed or "pulled". But that may just be to make the 2013-2014 counter numbers (85) work, not necessarily explain where these current walk on scholarships came from (assuming they are for current semester).
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This could be the case but scholarships were taken/not renewed from players who had eligibility left. The rational given by coach Kill was it was for their own protection.

Really? First let me reiterate that I'm on the programs side (coach Kills side) if this is to free up scholarships from players who don't play but have graduated (of course this is the reason). If coach did say this, the huge problem I would have is this would be coming from a coach who has his own health issues. How would he respond/feel if someone took his dream/job away for similar reasons?

If true this is were Kill loses me. Dude just tell the truth...quit BS'n all the damn time.

This is how the conversation should have went "Bobby Joe, I know you have persevered and want to remain part of the program but it is time for you to move on. I wish things could have worked out differently for you here and you would have gotten an opportunity to play more but for whatever reason it just wasn't meant to be. Building a program requires some tough decisions, decisions I wish i didn't have to make. Unfortunately however I do, son I can't renew your scholarship (and/or you can remain on scholarship with a medical) I'm sorry.
 

It seems the biggest question aside from which walk ons were awarded scholarships, is the time period. It sounds like said players are on scholarship for the Spring. That would likely mean these 3 open spots have no relation to someone who left the program with eligibility remaining.

For example, if there was a player that left, voluntarily or not, they would still count to the max 85 for the current academic year and would not provide an open scholarship until the upcoming fall semester.

I'm pretty sure we used the max of 85 (since it was discussed earlier they had 1 scholarship available for the fall and it was given to Wettstein over among others, Barker). I believe the only way for a scholarship to open up for the Spring is if someone graduated and moved on, allowing for mid-year replacement. We had 11 scholarship Srs on the roster this past fall who used up their eligibility . So if 3 of them had graduated and didn't continue to take spring classes, that would lead me to believe that is where the 3 scholarships came from for the Spring term.

I suppose the scholarships could have come from someone who graduated and still had eligility left (as Sportsfan was eluding); but if that/those person(s) are still enrolled for spring semester (graduate courses) it would be pretty safe to assume they still have their scholarship for at least this current semester, and NOT explain where these 3 walk on scholarships came from.

So these 3 scholarships awarded after the bowl game, very well may end after spring term and not have any affect on the fall numbers with incoming 2013 recruiting class.

But, if the award actually period goes beyond spring, into summer or fall, those players would then at that point count toward the 85 for the next academic year, at which point we'd be left to wonder who isn't coming back for next season (and even beyond that wonder if they left voluntarily, or had scholarship not-renewed or "pulled" per Sportsfan's comments), or wonder if they intend to grayshirt or expect a recruit not to qualify and make it in for the fall.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
This could be the case but scholarships were taken/not renewed from players who had eligibility left. The rational given by coach Kill was it was for their own protection.

Really? First let me reiterate that I'm on the programs side (coach Kills side) if this is to free up scholarships from players who don't play but have graduated (of course this is the reason). If coach did say this, the huge problem I would have is this would be coming from a coach who has his own health issues. How would he respond/feel if someone took his dream/job away for similar reasons?

If true this is were Kill loses me. Dude just tell the truth...quit BS'n all the damn time.

This is how the conversation should have went "Bobby Joe, I know you have persevered and want to remain part of the program but it is time for you to move on. I wish things could have worked out differently for you here and you would have gotten an opportunity to play more but for whatever reason it just wasn't meant to be. Building a program requires some tough decisions, decisions I wish i didn't have to make. Unfortunately however I do, son I can't renew your scholarship (and/or you can remain on scholarship with a medical) I'm sorry.
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How do you even know that IF a graduating player with 1yr eligilibility left was in fact not getting their scholarship renewed, that isn't the type of conversation that occured? I would like to think that Kill isn't being being an a-hole if that sort of thing actually did occur, and that if he was "encouraging" someone to move on (or letting them know they couldn't keep them on scholarship), that there would be an upfront discusion with that player and things were handled the "right way".

It seems that Kill has been pretty honorable guy (as he should) with renewing scholarships each year for players whom he didn't bring in and haven't contributed or will contribute in the future. Others have already mentioned the names of players who have been kept on scholarship each year despite getting any or much PT.

If any of the players graduate and leave with 1 year left of eligitility, has there really been any indication if moving on was or wasn't the players original choice or desire? It's very well possible Kill could have had a conversation with these kids in that situation and it is coaches staff's decision to not renew the scholarship for next season, but it's also very well possible that the student-athlete made that desicion on their own. Unless you or someone knows for sure, it is pure speculation on the public's part what was discussed between coaches and players, and what the original desire/preference for the student athlete really was in regard to using/foreoging their 5th yr of eligility.

Some of the things you have mentioned very well may take place in athletic programs, ours as well as others. But there isn't any indication, that I'm aware of anyway, that Kill & staff has handled things the "wrong" way.
 

My math FWIW:

There are 69 players showing on the current Gophersports roster, that were recruited and/or entered the program as a scholarship player and have eligibility remaining.

+19 for class of 2013 = 88

It has been reported or rumored that about 5 of the players with eligibility remaining will be leaving the program (or left already) and won't be back for the fall.

if all these reports are accurate, no other attrition takes place, and all our recruits qualify and make it in for the fall, that would put our numbers at 83. That would leave 2 spots open for former walk ons. Hill and Botticelli are upperclassmen starters and have received annual scholarship awards in the past, so you would think they'd be the front runners for the remaining 2 scholarship spots.

*if the 3 walk ons that got scholarships as per this thread-topic are indeed for spring only, there may not be available scholarships for them this upcoming fall, unless others leave or recruits don't make it to campus.
 


The Number of Scholarships vs. Star Ranking Systems

I to believe that anytime things got a little slow here all you had to do to get a discussion going was to post something about the star ranking system. It does appear to me though that it is now easier to do that by posting something about the number of scholarships available. This is perfect because there is so many theories out there and it appears that none of us really have that good of a handle on how it really works.

The guy that really impresses me the most is Sportsfan24. His flexibility on his various positions is a sight to behold. Usually he is stead fast on the players' side but when it comes comes to scholarships for players who have graduated he states "First let me reiterate that I'm on the programs side (coach Kills side) if this is to free up scholarships from players who don't play but have graduated (of course this is the reason). If coach did say this, the huge problem I would have is this would be coming from a coach who has his own health issues. How would he respond/feel if someone took his dream/job away for similar reasons?"

"If true this is were Kill loses me. Dude just tell the truth...quit BS'n all the damn time."

"This is how the conversation should have went "Bobby Joe, I know you have persevered and want to remain part of the program but it is time for you to move on. I wish things could have worked out differently for you here and you would have gotten an opportunity to play more but for whatever reason it just wasn't meant to be. Building a program requires some tough decisions, decisions I wish i didn't have to make. Unfortunately however I do, son I can't renew your scholarship (and/or you can remain on scholarship with a medical) I'm sorry."

Now that is a very interesting statement on several levels and it has nothing to do with the star ranking system. Thanks you Sportsfan24 for bringing something new to the discussion here.
 

Killjoy said:
I to believe that anytime things got a little slow here all you had to do to get a discussion going was to post something about the star ranking system. It does appear to me though that it is now easier to do that by posting something about the number of scholarships available. This is perfect because there is so many theories out there and it appears that none of us really have that good of a handle on how it really works.

The guy that really impresses me the most is Sportsfan24. His flexibility on his various positions is a sight to behold. Usually he is stead fast on the players' side but when it comes comes to scholarships for players who have graduated he states "First let me reiterate that I'm on the programs side (coach Kills side) if this is to free up scholarships from players who don't play but have graduated (of course this is the reason). If coach did say this, the huge problem I would have is this would be coming from a coach who has his own health issues. How would he respond/feel if someone took his dream/job away for similar reasons?"


"If true this is were Kill loses me. Dude just tell the truth...quit BS'n all the damn time."

"This is how the conversation should have went "Bobby Joe, I know you have persevered and want to remain part of the program but it is time for you to move on. I wish things could have worked out differently for you here and you would have
gotten an opportunity to play more but for whatever reason it just wasn't meant to be. Building a program requires some tough decisions, decisions I wish i didn't have to make. Unfortunately however I do, son I can't renew your scholarship (and/or you can remain on scholarship with a medical) I'm sorry."

Now that is a very interesting statement on several levels and it has nothing to do with the star ranking system. Thanks you Sportsfan24 for bringing something new to the discussion here.
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You're welcome...I think? (Smile)

It's easy to be on the side of the program. They would be well within their right to not renew the scholarship after year one. What more can a unproductive player expect if they allow him to graduate before removing the scholarship? This isn't "house" football where every kid makes the team.
 

AShreve20 said:
How do you even know that IF a graduating player with 1yr eligilibility left was in fact not getting their scholarship renewed, that isn't the type of conversation that occured? I would like to think that Kill isn't being being an a-hole if that sort of thing actually did occur, and that if he was "encouraging" someone to move on (or letting them know they couldn't keep them on scholarship), that there would be an upfront discusion with that player and things were handled the "right way".

It seems that Kill has been pretty honorable guy (as he should) with renewing scholarships each year for players whom he didn't bring in and haven't contributed or will contribute in the future. Others have already mentioned the names of players who have been kept on scholarship each year despite getting any or much PT.

If any of the players graduate and leave with 1 year left of eligitility, has there really been any indication if moving on was or wasn't the players original choice or desire?
It's very well possible Kill could have had a conversation with these kids in that situation and it is coaches staff's decision to not renew the scholarship for next season, but it's also very well possible that the student-athlete made that desicion on their own. Unless you or someone knows for sure, it is pure speculation on the public's part what was discussed between coaches and players, and what the original desire/preference for the student athlete really was in regard to using/foreoging their 5th yr of eligility.

Some of the things you have mentioned very well may take place in athletic programs, ours as well as others. But there isn't any indication, that I'm aware of anyway, that Kill & staff has handled things the "wrong" way.
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Because two of their parents who read gopherhole called me and stated that's what happened.

Also, please don't confuse or attribute EVERYTHING in the thread I have said to the gopher program. When talking about the gophers I specifically say the gophers or coach Kill.

Here's the deal, even if what I was told is 100 percent correct (which I believe it to be), with one exception I'm on the gophers/Kill's side on this one (yes I told the parents this).

Football is about competition, if that competition leaves you at number 86 guess what? They only have 85 scholarships.

The one exception? Dude (Jer), just be honest. Don't tell folks you're thinking of their health that's why you're taking their scholarship. Nobodies gonna believe that and it makes you come across as.....dishonest.

In Kill's defense maybe it was the ugly baby thing. You know, when your ugly co-worker who's married to a ugly spouse shows you a picture of their new.....you guessed it...ugly baby. You say "ohhhh she's sooo cute."
 

Sportsfan24 said:
You're welcome...I think? (Smile)

It's easy to be on the side of the program. They would be well within their right to not renew the scholarship after year one. What more can a unproductive player expect if they allow him to graduate before removing the scholarship? This isn't "house" football where every kid makes the team.
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I don't always agree agree with you but I do enjoy reading some your unique perspectives. Thanks.
 



SF24 I also enjoy reading your comments and perspective. I also look at it like a contract where if you get your degree and you may have eligibility left. The U has held up its part by paying for your degree so the extra year would be a bonus.
 

From an interview with Chad Fahning......

Gopher Hole: Obviously, they have several lineman like Caleb Bak and Jon Christenson, who were preferred walk-ons who saw significant playing time this past season. Does that give you even more hope that if you do the right things and work hard, that that could be you down the road.

Chad Fahning: Oh, yes very much so. It was slightly coincidental that the day that I took that from Coach Limegrover and Coach Kill and I committed as a walk-on, I didn’t know about it, but it was the same day that they gave a scholarship to Caleb Bak and Jon Christenson

That is two of the three....
 

pharmacygopher said:
From an interview with Chad Fahning......

Gopher Hole: Obviously, they have several lineman like Caleb Bak and Jon Christenson, who were preferred walk-ons who saw significant playing time this past season. Does that give you even more hope that if you do the right things and work hard, that that could be you down the road.

Chad Fahning: Oh, yes very much so. It was slightly coincidental that the day that I took that from Coach Limegrover and Coach Kill and I committed as a walk-on, I didn’t know about it, but it was the same day that they gave a scholarship to Caleb Bak and Jon Christenson

That is two of the three....
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Here is a link to the full interview: http://www.gopherhole.com/news_article/show/231378?referrer_id=388419
 

I'm happy for the Bak and Christenson. Bak walked on without much fanfare and truly earned it. You gotta love kids that have a "bring it on" attitude and make it happen for themselves against some difficult odds.

Go Gophers!
 



that fills in some holes, but not everything. The question still would remain, is if these awarded scholarships for Bak and Christensen are for the spring semester as mid-year replacements for graduated players. Or if they are for the upcoming fall 2013 - 2014 year. Or both.

it is possible they are only on scholarship for spring only (if for example someone like Gray, Stoudamire, Carter, etc. graduated and is not enrolled in the spring- *i'm not sure of the specific status of those names mentioned* - which would potentially open a spot for a walk on mid-year replacement to be added.)

It is possible that they are 2 of the 3 people Shooter mentioned in earlier column (that Kill didn't name)

It's not too likely, but it is also possible that 3 other walk ons have scholarships for the spring as mid-year replacements, and that these scholarships for Bak and Christensen are for the fall, and un-related to Shooters earlier column mentioning 3 walk ons given scholarships.


There have been rumors that Watkins, Moulton, Garin, Jacques, and Beal will not be returning next year. If rumors are true and you deduct those 5 scholarships, that would leave us with exactly 85 for the fall when adding the incoming recruiting class. Note that is assuming every other scholarship player (including former walk ons who were awarded, Hill and Botticelli) have their's renewed for the fall. That means IF Bak, Christensen, or any other walk on are going to be given sholarships for the 2013-2014 academic year starting this fall, that the staff would have to expect a couple others not to be back next year, or a couple incoming recruits not making it in, or to grayshirt.

another interesting tidbit is for someone like Christensen (walk on who hasn't been on campus for 2 full academic years), if his scholly is for current spring semester, I believe he would have to count toward annual 25 (for current year or next), which wouldn't really be an issue since we only signed 19 + 1 extra spot taken by Bobek, maybe (he could have been counted toward previous year if spot was open, as could any of the early enrolees as well).
 

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