Shama: U Quarterbacks Redshirt Candidates

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GophersInIowa said:
I'd only do this if you really felt he could help the team win right now. I wouldn't do it just to get him experience, unless the game is a blowout.

My guess is the two freshman will end up redshirting (Williams & Green).
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Agree that you don't play Croft just to play him. Best case (based on where Croft and others appear to be development wise) Mitch stays healthy all year and the team plays well enough for Croft to get a decent amount of mop up duty where he can get experience in game situations with little to no pressure on him. The freshmen redshirt and Rhoda plays the role he is meant to play of scout team QB helping the team prepare each week by studying the opponents offense.

That said if Green outplays Croft in camp then you flip it and make him the backup and redshirt Croft. Either way though at this point it looks like Mitch is the best option we have yet again for better or worse (and yes Wait What, we all know you feel it is worse).
 

MNVCGUY said:
Obviously there is no way to know how things will play out with any player but for the sake of the program I hope we never find ourselves thinking Green is better suited for a different position then QB (ala Streveler). This team can't afford to miss on any more QB recruits, especially with Croft still being a major question mark in terms of ability and Mitch entering his final year of eligibility. Our QB depth is already razor thin, we need any QB recruits we bring in to pan out over the next few years. They don't have to be elite but they do have to be legit options at the QB position at the very least.
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It's possible we will miss on Green, we might not. All I was saying is that he looks like a kid with the body and the athleticism to make an impact in the B10. He might kick someone in the head tonight or make a porno and post it on Gopherhole and he's gone like a fart in the wind tomorrow.
 

I don't care at this point as long as the QB that gives us best chance to win is on the field.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


wait!what? said:
fully agree.
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Do you though? To this point Mitch has clearly looked like the best option (that is not the same as saying he looks like a great QB) yet you have been banging the drum for anyone but Mitch for a long time now.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Do you though? To this point Mitch has clearly looked like the best option (that is not the same as saying he looks like a great QB) yet you have been banging the drum for anyone but Mitch for a long time now.
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I hope Mitcheroo wins the Heisman.
 



wait!what? said:
such a goof. you're gonna get the same qb you have had for the last 3 years. avg is all you can hope for with donkey #7.
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He will have a solid year then you can eat Donkey sh!t.
 



wait!what? said:
such a goof. you're gonna get the same qb you have had for the last 3 years. avg is all you can hope for with donkey #7.
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So what is your solution? You moan and complain about Mitch but what would you do instead? Throw Croft out there? Go with Green as an untested true freshman? Play Rhoda? I'm as frustrated as anyone with the state of the QB position and the fact that we don't have a better option than Mitch on the roster, but that isn't Leidner's fault.
 

wait!what? said:
I hope Mitcheroo wins the Heisman.
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Sure you do. You infantilize him by calling him your stupid f&cking nickname, referring to him as a "donkey", and constantly insinuating that Claeys is going to pull him.

Btw, "average" Big Ten QB play would be far better than the Gophers have gotten from the position for almost all of team history.
 


wait!what? said:
Those responsible for saddling the crew with Mitcheroo are no longer employed at the U. this alone is a breath of fresh air.
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So your argument is that Claeys, Reeves, Anderson, Poore, etc. had no responsibility whatsoever for Leidner coming to the U? Really? That's your take? Kill, Limegrover, and Zebrowski just did it by themselves with no input, advice, or consent from anyone else? And what does "saddling" mean in this context? This would be a worse team if Leidner weren't on it. Face it, jerk - Leidner is far and away the best QB on the team, and it isn't close. Deal with it.
 



wait!what? said:
such a goof. you're gonna get the same qb you have had for the last 3 years. avg is all you can hope for with <b>donkey #7.</b>
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Can you please use his name! How annoying to use a nickname and jersey # instead.
 

MNVCGUY said:
The simple fact that we are having this discussion is proof of how suspect our QB situation has become over the past few years. Nothing against Rhoda but he was never destined to be more then a scout team guy at the D1 level. The fact that we are talking about him like he could be just as good or better then the two scholarship backups is sad. It is also so strange to see how many have gone from wanting anyone but Mitch under center to hoping he manages to stay healthy because the options behind him are still pretty scary at this point.

I really hope Croft or more likely Green turn out to be the real deal. This team is due for a difference maker at the most important position on the field. Mitch is what he is, he won't kill you most games and he won't carry you most games. The bar is not set real high but to this point they have not been able to find/develop anyone that can get past it. Hopefully with a new coordinator and QB coach we will see things start to shift on that front.
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Destined? Joel Stave was also a walk on and is Wisconsin's all time winningest QB. Scholarship means zip. It's not sad. If Rhoda has enough talent and has worked hard enough to be the back up qb, then he deserves it. We don't know whether that's a function of the player being good, or the other options being bad. But whether he was a walk on or scholarship player isn't a factor in the discussion. It's a very hard position to project from college to the NFL. The leap from high school to college is just as great or greater. Is it sad that NDSU's QB could go in the top 5 of the draft?
 


wait!what? said:
such a goof. you're gonna get the same qb you have had for the last 3 years. avg is all you can hope for with donkey #7.
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I hate to encourage it, but have to admit I LOL at this random 70s era tv show reference. He'll make an ass out of one of us.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Y_PdfnmuosM?start=618" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Williams definitely will RS. IMHO, this is the only thing definite.

Jay Johnson and Tracey Claeys will position players that will give them the most reasonable chance to win the most games. AND They want to win now.

My guess - long term, it will be better for Seth Green to red shirt.

We seem to do a very good job at developing DBs, but have a harder time with QBs. They have to develop what QB they have on the fly. They don't have the luxury of the upper echelon teams.

Look at what the Gophers went thru with Shortell, Manvel, Nelson, and Leidner.

Furthermore, they have had to struggle with the supporting talent around the QB. We got lucky we had David Cobb and Maxx Williams, and a few good enough O Linemen and blocking TEs. Injuries killed them last season. Mitch Leidner struggled through with barely enough protection. A second or two more time to throw the ball would have meant a couple more wins.

Mitch was much maligned, but he is a fighter and a leader for his team. He never complained, worked hard, and never quit fighting even through injury.

If we look at other teams in D1, I am sure many teams struggle likewise at QB unless you are tOSU or Alabama who get the pick of the litter as far as legit QB talent goes with higher caliber protection.

It makes it so much tougher for teams like the GOphers to make separation.

The key for the GOphers - Mitch Leidner and the O Line stay healthy. We've got some good looking linemen this year, just not good team depth when you factor in potential injuries.

Croft or Green being red shirted is a moot question in the larger scheme of things.
 

Section2 said:
Destined? Joel Stave was also a walk on and is Wisconsin's all time winningest QB. Scholarship means zip. It's not sad. If Rhoda has enough talent and has worked hard enough to be the back up qb, then he deserves it. We don't know whether that's a function of the player being good, or the other options being bad. But whether he was a walk on or scholarship player isn't a factor in the discussion. It's a very hard position to project from college to the NFL. The leap from high school to college is just as great or greater. Is it sad that NDSU's QB could go in the top 5 of the draft?
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I love when people cherry-pick a couple examples of guys that made it and act like that is somehow a reflection on all the players in that same scenario. This line of thinking was the same that led a bunch of people on this board to tab Perra for greatness if only he got the chance. Could Rhoda turn out to be a great player who was just overlooked in high school, I guess, but it is highly unlikely. Walk-ons are vital to the success of a program and they play key roles at a lot of different positions for the U and other schools but for me at least QB is one where you need your scholarship level guys to make it more often then not. Clearly you can get lucky with a walk-on QB and have them pan out but I will be shocked, and gladly admit I was wrong, if Rhoda turns out to be one of those guys.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I love when people cherry-pick a couple examples of guys that made it and act like that is somehow a reflection on all the players in that same scenario. This line of thinking was the same that led a bunch of people on this board to tab Perra for greatness if only he got the chance. Could Rhoda turn out to be a great player who was just overlooked in high school, I guess, but it is highly unlikely. Walk-ons are vital to the success of a program and they play key roles at a lot of different positions for the U and other schools but for me at least QB is one where you need your scholarship level guys to make it more often then not. Clearly you can get lucky with a walk-on QB and have them pan out but I will be shocked, and gladly admit I was wrong, if Rhoda turns out to be one of those guys.
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A 5 star recruit has a higher chance of panning out than 4 star, and on down to walk ons. I'm not saying it's likely that Rhoda will pan out. I'm saying that it won't be sad if he wins a job, and I dont' think we "need" scholarship players to be starters. We need good players, and it doesn't matter how they were ranked coming out of high school.
 

Section2 said:
A 5 star recruit has a higher chance of panning out than 4 star, and on down to walk ons. I'm not saying it's likely that Rhoda will pan out. I'm saying that it won't be sad if he wins a job, and I dont' think we "need" scholarship players to be starters. We need good players, and it doesn't matter how they were ranked coming out of high school.
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I think we are actually on the same page with a lot of this. What it really boils down to for me is how a walk-on or lower rated player wins the job. Using Rhoda as an example but could apply to pretty much any walk on:

1 - If all the guys (Rhoda, Green, Croft, Williams) are playing well and Rhoda flat out wins the backup role because he is better than the other guys then great, that is awesome for the program, having multiple capable options all competing for the job is what we all want to see.

2 - The scenario that I don't want to see play out is that guys like Green or Croft don't pan out and a walk-on like Rhoda becomes our only real option, not because of how he played but because the others guys that we were banking on being the future of the program couldn't get it done.

If at some point the first scenario plays out and Rhoda just flat out wins the job then great. Problem is over the last few years we have had far more of scenario 2 where we are going with the best option out of a group of not very good options in the grand scheme of things at the QB position.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I think we are actually on the same page with a lot of this. What it really boils down to for me is how a walk-on or lower rated player wins the job. Using Rhoda as an example but could apply to pretty much any walk on:

1 - If all the guys (Rhoda, Green, Croft, Williams) are playing well and Rhoda flat out wins the backup role because he is better than the other guys then great, that is awesome for the program, having multiple capable options all competing for the job is what we all want to see.

2 - The scenario that I don't want to see play out is that guys like Green or Croft don't pan out and a walk-on like Rhoda becomes our only real option, not because of how he played but because the others guys that we were banking on being the future of the program couldn't get it done.

If at some point the first scenario plays out and Rhoda just flat out wins the job then great. Problem is over the last few years we have had far more of scenario 2 where we are going with the best option out of a group of not very good options in the grand scheme of things at the QB position.
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Yeah, that's true, but a casual fan will never know. And the product on the field is often a lot more complicated than "qb sucks" or "qb is awesome". We all want good QB play. The best option is the best option. We're never going to have OSU depth.
 

Section2 said:
Yeah, that's true, but a casual fan will never know. And the product on the field is often a lot more complicated than "qb sucks" or "qb is awesome". We all want good QB play. The best option is the best option. We're never going to have OSU depth.
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I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for saying this, but if the Gophers had Braxton Miller, J.T. Barrett and Cardale Jones they may not have won any more games last year.

J.T. Barrett
SEASON CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT RAW QBR ADJ QBR
2015 93 147 992 63.3 6.75 50 11 4 6 139.2 66.9 75.7

Cardale Jones
SEASON CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT RAW QBR ADJ QBR
2015 110 176 1460 62.5 8.30 54 8 5 13 141.5 51.1 51.6

Mitch Leidner
SEASON CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT RAW QBR ADJ QBR
2015 242 407 2701 59.5 6.64 57 14 11 16 121.1 54.6 64.3

I'm sorry - these stats are spaced differently when I edit, but are jamming together when I post.

Those stats are with a much better O line and much better receivers. And yet, they aren't that much better. The biggest thing that jumps out is TD/INT. But how many of those were because the receiver wasn't in the right spot or missed a read?

I just think some people are trying to make Leidner worse than he is.
 

Lakeville Goldy;1198635I just think some people are trying to make Leidner worse than he is.[/QUOTE said:
Most of these Leidner bashers seem to be trolls looking for reactions not knowledgable Gopher fans.
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wait!what? said:
that anyone accepts the 3 yrs of inconsistency of #7 is beyond me.
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I'll ask again, what would you have done differently? Who on the roster would you have played instead of Leidner? You love to take your shots at Mitch every chance you get but all you do is throw out insults with no other substance of any kind.

As for accepting the inconsistency of Leidner, yeah it is frustrating we aren't getting more from the position but as I have said before that isn't Leidner's fault. He is what he is, any and all blame for the state of the QB position should be directed at the coaching staff that is in charge of recruiting/developing the players.

Leidner is clearly the best option on the roster. He isn't good enough for you but if no one can beat him out then the only option is for him to play.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for saying this, but if the Gophers had Braxton Miller, J.T. Barrett and Cardale Jones they may not have won any more games last year.

J.T. Barrett
SEASON CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT RAW QBR ADJ QBR
2015 93 147 992 63.3 6.75 50 11 4 6 139.2 66.9 75.7

Cardale Jones
SEASON CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT RAW QBR ADJ QBR
2015 110 176 1460 62.5 8.30 54 8 5 13 141.5 51.1 51.6

Mitch Leidner
SEASON CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT RAW QBR ADJ QBR
2015 242 407 2701 59.5 6.64 57 14 11 16 121.1 54.6 64.3

I'm sorry - these stats are spaced differently when I edit, but are jamming together when I post.

Those stats are with a much better O line and much better receivers. And yet, they aren't that much better. The biggest thing that jumps out is TD/INT. But how many of those were because the receiver wasn't in the right spot or missed a read?

I just think some people are trying to make Leidner worse than he is.
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'Don't know if this will work...
QB COMPARISON 2015.jpg
 


After than less a stellar performance in the Spring game by both Croft and.Green, I'm not so sure Williams will RS.You may want to look at his film again. He reminds me of Boykin at TCU.
 

wait!what? said:
that anyone accepts the 3 yrs of inconsistency of #7 is beyond me.
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Shouldn't you be bashing the guys who could not displace him?

DRM? Nelson? Croft?

He is clearly our best option. Statistically, he's been an average Big 10 QB. That actually puts him in the upper echelon of Gopher QBs. I'm not enamored with Mitch as a player and there have definitely been times I wish we had other options, however, you really do seem singularly focused on Mitch Leidner.
 

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