seriously, wtf has happened to Rodney Williams?

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BarnBurner said:
Rodney still cant dribble or shoot well - at all. Fundamentals of the game.

Rodney hasnt developed well - how much of his development is tied to coaching is up for some debate.
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There has been very little complaint about Rodney's play for about 20 of our last 25 games. We were all praising how wonderfully he developed in the NIT and continued dominating for most of this season, in fact he is our 2nd leading scorer. I'd say he has developed just fine, if a bit late, he may just be in a temporary slump, or maybe that slip on the floor at Indiana affected him more greatly than most of us had first thought.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
If guys are quitting on Tubby because they are calling him out, that is one thing I will not fault Tubby for here. I hate his in game management, and if he is recruiting players who are too soft to deal with the coach being mean when they play well, then he needs to recruit tougher players. However, Herb Brooks and Bobby Knight are two coaches who were not bashful about letting their players know when they were upset (we can get into a debate about whether Bobby took it too far), but they managed to accomplish some pretty great years despite yelling at their players.
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Letting players know when they are not playing well is fine. Doing it in the press is completely a different thing. Nobody, including Rodney has called out Tubby for throwing them under the bus in practice. It is press conferences that pisses off the players. No need for that.
 

Minnesotagg said:
Letting players know when they are not playing well is fine. Doing it in the press is completely a different thing. Nobody, including Rodney has called out Tubby for throwing them under the bus in practice. It is press conferences that pisses off the players. No need for that.
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Name one press conference where the players were pissed at Tubby for telling it like it is. You can't, you just made another piece of babble.
 

BarnBurner said:
Rodney still cant dribble or shoot well - at all. Fundamentals of the game.

Rodney hasnt developed well - how much of his development is tied to coaching is up for some debate.
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I would say that a lot of the lack of development is tied to coaching.

I've asked this before on the GH. Name a player at MN under Tubby Smith that has become significantly better from his freshman year to his senior year. Usually I can hear a pin drop when I ask the question.
 

tinyarch said:
I would say that a lot of the lack of development is tied to coaching.

I've asked this before on the GH. Name a player at MN under Tubby Smith that has become significantly better from his freshman year to his senior year. Usually I can hear a pin drop when I ask the question.
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Then why the hell are you here on the lecture circuit, free of charge, instead of selling your services where you can do some good?
 


tinyarch said:
I would say that a lot of the lack of development is tied to coaching.

I've asked this before on the GH. Name a player at MN under Tubby Smith that has become significantly better from his freshman year to his senior year. Usually I can hear a pin drop when I ask the question.
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A relatively short string of bad games and now Rodney hasn't developed. Rodney Williams has absolutely developed, he is our 2nd leading scorer. Damian Johnson improved under Tubby, even if his freshman season was not with Tubby. Austin Hollins isn't a senior yet, but he has certainly improved. I would say Chip Armelin improved from his freshman year to his sophomore year. Maverick Ahanmisi, at least in some people's eyes, has gone from "Why on earth do we let this guy touch the ball?" to being the best guard off the bench, and he is one of our better 3-point shooters. Devoe Joseph became the star player on the team in the latter half of his sophomore season, but admittedly didn't look as good in the handful games he played in his junior year between suspensions.
 

MNGreatest said:
Like I have said in previous threads, my theory is that this team will go as far as Rodney Williams play dictates. When he plays bad he absolutely kills us. His attitude is horrible for one, but his play also is horrible which really affects the team in a negative way. Chucking up 3's on first pass of possession on offense, not finishing lay ups and following the defensive rebounder 80 feet away from the basket, missing free throws, whining and arguing with the refs, etc. I hate to be harsh on him, but he is one of the 2 elder statesmen of the team that the other players follow and take after. Trevors play is always consistent so there is no blame there. The 2 pieces that were fundamental in that great NIT run were Rodney somehow figuring out how to play consistently and actually score on offense and Dre. Dre has still been solid this year, but he's not a natural PG so turnovers have been his Achilles heel. If this team wants to step up, and eventually run a few games off in a row in the NCAA, they need Rodney to be that 3rd constant with Dre, and Trevor. When he plays great it takes all the pressure off the other players to stop pressing themselves and forcing the issue, and to just play loose and fill their normal roles. We need Rodney.
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if he 'whines and argues' he gets ripped for whining and arguing.. if he doesn't, he gets ripped for having no passion.

'rodney somehow figured out how to play in the NIT'.. do you even watch these games? do you even understand the difference between playing against a physical wisky team at kohl vs a soft Washington team in the NIT?

maybe there were no driving lanes... maybe wisky boxed out a bit on the glass... maybe rodney stopped shooting after 0-6 deferring to his teammates.. why is everyone ripping on the guy?? halfcout O against wisky is absolutely the wrong game for him.. why question his heart? why say he quit? quit???
 


And to think, there were GopherHolers that were worried Rodney was going pro after his Sophomore or Junior years.....
 



Austin's improved, Al Nolen and Damien Johnson became very good big ten players under Tubby. Austin's shooting is much better compared to his freshman year. I would say Dre has improved as a PG, but is still learning and will be a complete force his senior year. Rodney Williams defense has improved leaps and bounds from his freshman year Mbakwe's offense is much better compared two years ago when he couldn't hit a shot beyond five feet.
 

Cayman said:
There has been very little complaint about Rodney's play for about 20 of our last 25 games. We were all praising how wonderfully he developed in the NIT and continued dominating for most of this season, in fact he is our 2nd leading scorer. I'd say he has developed just fine, if a bit late, he may just be in a temporary slump, or maybe that slip on the floor at Indiana affected him more greatly than most of us had first thought.
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I have not complained, just been amazed at the lack of improvement relative to potential.

Dominating? Exactly whom has RW dominated?

Fundamentals are sorely lacking in his game. Shooting is hit and miss, unless it is a dunk.

Just imo.....
 

Dr.Don said:
Name one press conference where the players were pissed at Tubby for telling it like it is. You can't, you just made another piece of babble.
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After the Northwestern game Rodney tweeted that the coach "threw them under the buy, way under the bus". He later apologized. Is this just babble? This was when Tubby called out Rodney and Austin by name. There. I just did.

He does it all the time. Pay attention.
 

Minnesotagg said:
After the Northwestern game Rodney tweeted that the coach "threw them under the buy, way under the bus". He later apologized. Is this just babble? This was when Tubby called out Rodney and Austin by name. There. I just did.

He does it all the time. Pay attention.
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I think Rodney needs to toughen up, worry less about what the coach is saying, and focus on his game. Based on the last few performances, that should be plenty to keep him occupied.
 



bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I think Rodney needs to toughen up, worry less about what the coach is saying, and focus on his game. Based on the last few performances, that should be plenty to keep him occupied.
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I don't disagree at all. However, Tubby needs to stop calling out players in public. There is fault on both sides.
 


Minnesotagg said:
After the Northwestern game Rodney tweeted that the coach "threw them under the buy, way under the bus". He later apologized. Is this just babble? This was when Tubby called out Rodney and Austin by name. There. I just did.

He does it all the time. Pay attention.
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I said name a press conference, not a damned tweet. Pay attention.

These are big boys playing on a huge public stage. And what Tubby said is nothing compared to GH commentors.
 

Dr.Don said:
I said name a press conference, not a damned tweet. Pay attention.

These are big boys playing on a huge public stage. And what Tubby said is nothing compared to GH commentors.
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No, you misunderstood. I pointed out that coaches like Knight and Brooks did not routinely rip players at press conferences. They did it at practice or in locker room. Tubby ripping players in press conferences has been a point of contention with his players.

Big boy league or not, coaches that throw players under the bus, usually do so to deflect responsibility. If it is meant to motivate, it is a poor choice to do so. GH commentators threads are not on TV or on the Big Ten network.

This isn't all Tubby's fault as I say above. Rodney needs to toughen up, but just stop with the public ripping. It isn't needed and it doesn't help.
 

bemidjigopher said:
Austin's improved, Al Nolen and Damien Johnson became very good big ten players under Tubby. Austin's shooting is much better compared to his freshman year. I would say Dre has improved as a PG, but is still learning and will be a complete force his senior year. Rodney Williams defense has improved leaps and bounds from his freshman year Mbakwe's offense is much better compared two years ago when he couldn't hit a shot beyond five feet.
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It could be argued that Al Nolen's best season was his first or 2nd year. The year we beat Louisville in Anaheim. I remember Pitino praising him and calling out his own guards. After that, Nolen got suspended, had injuries and was never the same.

Damian Johnson showed some gradual improvments but also had some frustrating lapses.

I wonder how much of Austin's improvements come from having a former All-Star Guard as a father? I doubt Tubby has taught him anything other than how to snicker at press conferences.
 

Minnesotagg said:
I don't disagree at all. However, Tubby needs to stop calling out players in public. There is fault on both sides.
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I think that's fair. Tubby should stop the blame deflecting in the press (and let them know who is to blame at practice). It always bothers me when Tom Coughlin is doing his big "wtf?" face and the demonstrative "wtf?" gesture with his arms on the sideline, and I think I would prefer that happen in the locker room.
 

Tubby's press conference after a loss should always start with: "I didn't do a good enough job getting this team ready." Or "I've got to do a better job of getting this team to value the basketball." Or "We're going to institute a new policy...Before players can hit the showers after practice, they all have to hit 10 consecutive FT's...Miss 1 and they start over....I don't care if we're there all night and Saul has a late start on his clubbing."
 

I think blaming Tubby for Rodney and other players not producing is pointless. These guys should be tough enough (especially a senior) to handle Tubby's coaching style. Tubby has heaped plenty of praise on Rodney as well. I just think like others have mentioned, his style and strengths are not suited for slow paced half court game. In transition he can get baskets. Against a player that is not guarding him like most big ten players guard him, he can get free for boards and put backs.
 

Moses87 said:
Tubby's press conference after a loss should always start with: "I didn't do a good enough job getting this team ready." Or "I've got to do a better job of getting this team to value the basketball." Or "We're going to institute a new policy...Before players can hit the showers after practice, they all have to hit 10 consecutive FT's...Miss 1 and they start over....I don't care if we're there all night and Saul has a late start on his clubbing."
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I would be happy if he just said WE didn't do this, WE didn't do that, WE need to get better at this etc.. ........instead of naming players. TEAM members don't call out other TEAM members in public. Got that Tubby, are you part of the TEAM or just trying to distance yourself when things go wrong?
 

I would love to see Tubby bench a few starters for the start of the Nebraska game. I hoped for 4 years he would do it to Sampson when he didn't play hard. I also would love to see what another 3pt shooter would look like in the lineup. No the bench guys are not better players, but maybe it will light a fire under them.
 

march madness said:
I would love to see Tubby bench a few starters for the start of the Nebraska game. I hoped for 4 years he would do it to Sampson when he didn't play hard. I also would love to see what another 3pt shooter would look like in the lineup. No the bench guys are not better players, but maybe it will light a fire under them.
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I agree with this. Nebraska is a perfect chance to do this.
 

tinyarch said:
I would say that a lot of the lack of development is tied to coaching.

I've asked this before on the GH. Name a player at MN under Tubby Smith that has become significantly better from his freshman year to his senior year. Usually I can hear a pin drop when I ask the question.
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Well, there aren't a lot to choose from. There are only four players who have played four years under Tubby.
Al Nolen
Blake Hoffarber
Ralph Sampson
Rodney Williams

I think you can say three of the four improved without a doubt. Nolen and Hoffarber were both good/very good players. Rodney Williams improved but hasn't lived up to the hype.
 

march madness said:
I would love to see Tubby bench a few starters for the start of the Nebraska game. I hoped for 4 years he would do it to Sampson when he didn't play hard. I also would love to see what another 3pt shooter would look like in the lineup. No the bench guys are not better players, but maybe it will light a fire under them.
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I agree.

Many have speculated Tubby has publicly called out players because he has tried everything else. I don't believe he has tried this.

Having said that I would probably still start Austin(has been the most consistent until the last two games), but I would sit Rodney and Joe...they seem lost.

Edit: I would probably start EE for Rodney and move Trevor to the 4(his natural position).

I would probably start Mav(my knees are shaking for saying this) in place of Joe. Mav could play the 2 on offense(he's hitting the 3) and could play defense on the pg.
 

Moses87 said:
I wonder how much of Austin's improvements come from having a former All-Star Guard as a father? I doubt Tubby has taught him anything other than how to snicker at press conferences.
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But then shouldn't having a former All-Star guard as a father have made Austin a great player as a freshman? I'm sure his dad has helped a lot but to say he's the only reason Austin has improved is ridiculous.
 

GophersInIowa said:
But then shouldn't having a former All-Star guard as a father have made Austin a great player as a freshman? I'm sure his dad has helped a lot but to say he's the only reason Austin has improved is ridiculous.
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Based on the other players who have stayed in the program for 3 years, I don't think it's ridiculous at all. It makes more sense.
 


Moses87 said:
Based on the other players who have stayed in the program for 3 years, I don't think it's ridiculous at all. It makes more sense.
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So when players improve like Austin, it's because of the player himself or his father, but when a player doesn't improve like Sampson, it's because of Tubby.

It's kinda like in games. When the team wins it's because of certain players, but when the team loses, it's all on Tubby.
 

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