Seriously How Can The Gophers Compete???

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daveozark

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Seriously, how can the Gophers compete in the BigTen when the only players that commit rank in the sub 90 range typically with 3 stars on the 24/7 Sports Transfer Portal. Discouraging to see teams like Ohio State and Indiana add portal recruits that rank 90-96 with a 4 or 5 star rating, sounds hopeless for the Gophs I know. So just throw your hands up in the air and surrender right? Hell no!! There has got to be a way to compete.

I suggest Coach Ben make this team a defensive, pressing machine with motors that are always running. A team that is constantly irritating, causing havoc in the backcourt by 3 or 4 guys always on the ball, and unsettling the timing of the opponent’s offense. A team that that is going to make the 4 or 5 star guys on the other side have to work to get ball in the basket. The Team needs to understand that 8-10 players are going to get at least 15 minutes of playing time each game, as a non-stop pressing team needs to platoon substitute every 5-8 minutes to keep everyone fresh.

That scheme could work or maybe not so much, but my point is that the coaching staff needs to figure out a way to give this team an edge so they can be competitive. Now is the time to put a plan in place so that by October everyone knows his role.
 

The NIL money talks or the players walk. Any team, not just the Gophers, that can't get competitive in NIL has no chance. The highest bidder wins almost every time. So the rich will get richer, and for everyone else it’s the Hunger Games.
 

He needs to walk over to the football coach and ask how he is killing the portal with comparable issues. The portal might require a more charasmatic coach.
 
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per sportico bball budgets:
Illinois $14M
Indiana $17M
Iowa $10M
Maryland $12M
Michigan $12M
MSU $17M
Nebraska $10M
OSU $14M
Oregon $12M
PSU $12M
Purdue $10M
Rutgers $14M
UCLA $14M
Washington $11M
Wisconsin $12M

Minnesota $8.6M

USC and NW are private and don't release financials

So, we are the oakland A's of bigtem bball, and need to go all billy beane

craftily, the U has built a bball budget so that when schools can pay athletes, the U is well positioned to throw a few extra $millions at players
 


GopherOhana said:
per sportico bball budgets:
Illinois $14M
Indiana $17M
Iowa $10M
Maryland $12M
Michigan $12M
MSU $17M
Nebraska $10M
OSU $14M
Oregon $12M
PSU $12M
Purdue $10M
Rutgers $14M
UCLA $14M
Washington $11M
Wisconsin $12M

Minnesota $8.6M

USC and NW are private and don't release financials

So, we are the oakland A's of bigtem bball, and need to go all billy beane

craftily, the U has built a bball budget so that when schools can pay athletes, the U is well positioned to throw a few extra $millions at players
Click to expand...
Even though our coach is the lowest paid....

How much sense does it make to pay the coach $2M...but lose 3 starters because you can't pay the extra $300K they each got...?

Does this make sense?
 

Just saw an article that said Payne was asking for 500K just to talk to him and Texas A&M gave him that. That article then said that is more than the entire Gophers NIL budget. If that is even close to true, we are absolutely toast. If our entire budget cant match what other teams can spend on one player we have ZERO chance to compete with high level players. That's not even one hand tied behind your back, that's just a human head trying to compete in a fight.
 


daveozark said:
Seriously, how can the Gophers compete in the BigTen when the only players that commit rank in the sub 90 range typically with 3 stars on the 24/7 Sports Transfer Portal. Discouraging to see teams like Ohio State and Indiana add portal recruits that rank 90-96 with a 4 or 5 star rating, sounds hopeless for the Gophs I know. So just throw your hands up in the air and surrender right? Hell no!! There has got to be a way to compete.

I suggest Coach Ben make this team a defensive, pressing machine with motors that are always running. A team that is constantly irritating, causing havoc in the backcourt by 3 or 4 guys always on the ball, and unsettling the timing of the opponent’s offense. A team that that is going to make the 4 or 5 star guys on the other side have to work to get ball in the basket. The Team needs to understand that 8-10 players are going to get at least 15 minutes of playing time each game, as a non-stop pressing team needs to platoon substitute every 5-8 minutes to keep everyone fresh.

That scheme could work or maybe not so much, but my point is that the coaching staff needs to figure out a way to give this team an edge so they can be competitive. Now is the time to put a plan in place so that by October everyone knows his role.
Click to expand...
Your suggestion to focus on defense was Pitino's mantra during his first couple years at MN. Full court press most of the game and a lot of zone defense. They won the NIT Pitino's first season but it wasn't a winner in the b10. Don't think the players were a fan either. After a couple seasons the press was done. Possibly when CBJ was hired.

The full court press reminded me of Iowa Hawkeyes during many seasons. It's annoying to watch, but if it works that'd be ok. Very exhausting on the pressing team's players.

Most successful coaches will admit they win with good players, not a roster full of 2/3 * (star) players. Coyle and CBJ are aware of the fact and need to secure the better players or it's back to the basement of the b10 for the gophers. Unfortunately, the b10's adding 4 teams and that means the basement is another level lower.
 



Yeah best bet is to recruit to some unique scheme. Go full zone defense like Syracuse or press entire game and sub out in full lines to guarantee 10 guys get significant minutes
 


GopherOhana said:
per sportico bball budgets:
Illinois $14M
Indiana $17M
Iowa $10M
Maryland $12M
Michigan $12M
MSU $17M
Nebraska $10M
OSU $14M
Oregon $12M
PSU $12M
Purdue $10M
Rutgers $14M
UCLA $14M
Washington $11M
Wisconsin $12M

Minnesota $8.6M

USC and NW are private and don't release financials

So, we are the oakland A's of bigtem bball, and need to go all billy beane

craftily, the U has built a bball budget so that when schools can pay athletes, the U is well positioned to throw a few extra $millions at players
Click to expand...
The Oakland A's comparison isn't really apt. We are at 50% of the top programs and within 70% of 10 other programs. The teams in baseball have like 1/5 the payroll of the biggest spenders. The difference is considerably more drastic. We're closer to the NFL.

There is also a chicken and the egg thing going on here. Ben has generated absolutely zero buzz into this program. We came off the disappointing tenure of Pitino and we hired a guy who was rejected by Montana State and Northern Illinois. Winning changes a lot and if we have a good season, maybe that can sell some hope (and there is a pretty decent market exchanging hope for NIL $$).

PJ sells the hell out of hope, not only to the team but Gopher football fans.
 





What the hell is "chasmatic"?
Do we need to be immunized.
 



Obi-Wan Okogie said:
Just saw an article that said Payne was asking for 500K just to talk to him and Texas A&M gave him that. That article then said that is more than the entire Gophers NIL budget. If that is even close to true, we are absolutely toast. If our entire budget cant match what other teams can spend on one player we have ZERO chance to compete with high level players. That's not even one hand tied behind your back, that's just a human head trying to compete in a fight.
Click to expand...
That was Doogie and Doogie is frequently, well, Doogie.

He has no idea what we or anyone else has for funds. Nobody does.
 

GopherOhana said:
per sportico bball budgets:
Illinois $14M
Indiana $17M
Iowa $10M
Maryland $12M
Michigan $12M
MSU $17M
Nebraska $10M
OSU $14M
Oregon $12M
PSU $12M
Purdue $10M
Rutgers $14M
UCLA $14M
Washington $11M
Wisconsin $12M

Minnesota $8.6M

USC and NW are private and don't release financials

So, we are the oakland A's of bigtem bball, and need to go all billy beane

craftily, the U has built a bball budget so that when schools can pay athletes, the U is well positioned to throw a few extra $millions at players
Click to expand...
This is the public bball budget, required by U of M. This tells us stuff about resources provided probably for buy games, equipment, extra tools, private planes vs commercial scheduling. These are probably the challenges before NIL.

Also, probably a good clue why Dutcher’s Dad said Brian would never have accepted the job.
 

It doesn’t matter anymore. College basketball has just turned into AA minor league for basketball. Snooze fest
 


Angry said:
It doesn’t matter anymore. College basketball has just turned into AA minor league for basketball. Snooze fest
Click to expand...
No it doesn't unless you participate in a non revenue sport then it might have huge impacts. Just like the recruiting thread. It really doesn't matter much anymore. High school recruits are really not going to impact outcomes for the most part unless you get the 5* kids.
 

It looks like Ben's strategy is to put together experienced rosters. Essentially recreating the scrappy 12 seed mid/low major who can knock off 5 seeds because they are all 2-3 years older than the more talented players. While sprinkling in a few local MN guys who want to be here (like a Dawson Garcia, Parker Fox).

Assuming we sign Patterson and Edmonds, the years in a college program are:

Starters:
Lu'Cye Patterson: 5th year
Mike Mitchell: 4th year
Femi Odukale: 5th year
Dawson Garcia: 5th year
Frank Mitchell: 4th year

Bench:
Brennan Rigsby: 4th year
Trey Edmonds: 4th year
Parker Fox: 8th year
Caleb Williams: 5th year
Kadyn Betts: 3rd year
Isaac Asuma: 1st year
Grayson Grove: 1st year

That is a ridiculously old group. I'm not sure how well they compete in the B10. I remember him talking about "Old Wins" earlier in his tenure, looks like he finally got it. He actually kinda had that his first year with Stephens/Loewe/Willis/Battle/Sutherlin and I think they were playing well to start the year, but he had no bigs. Sean Sutherlin was playing PF at points that year.
 

eker0016 said:
It looks like Ben's strategy is to put together experienced rosters. Essentially recreating the scrappy 12 seed mid/low major who can knock off 5 seeds because they are all 2-3 years older than the more talented players. While sprinkling in a few local MN guys who want to be here (like a Dawson Garcia, Parker Fox).

Assuming we sign Patterson and Edmonds, the years in a college program are:

Starters:
Lu'Cye Patterson: 5th year
Mike Mitchell: 4th year
Femi Odukale: 5th year
Dawson Garcia: 5th year
Frank Mitchell: 4th year

Bench:
Brennan Rigsby: 4th year
Trey Edmonds: 4th year
Parker Fox: 8th year
Caleb Williams: 5th year
Kadyn Betts: 3rd year
Isaac Asuma: 1st year
Grayson Grove: 1st year

That is a ridiculously old group. I'm not sure how well they compete in the B10. I remember him talking about "Old Wins" earlier in his tenure, looks like he finally got it. He actually kinda had that his first year with Stephens/Loewe/Willis/Battle/Sutherlin and I think they were playing well to start the year, but he had no bigs. Sean Sutherlin was playing PF at points that year.
Click to expand...
That's just the way it's going to be in the future. You are going to have to look at the mid majors for the younger players. The top 4* and 5* guys are still going to be on the power 6 rosters but after that kids out of high school are going to have to go to the mid majors and play their way up.
 



It looks like Ben's strategy is to put together experienced rosters.
 



eker0016 said:
It looks like Ben's strategy is to put together experienced rosters. Essentially recreating the scrappy 12 seed mid/low major who can knock off 5 seeds because they are all 2-3 years older than the more talented players. While sprinkling in a few local MN guys who want to be here (like a Dawson Garcia, Parker Fox).

Assuming we sign Patterson and Edmonds, the years in a college program are:

Starters:
Lu'Cye Patterson: 5th year. - 14.6/3.4/2.5/76%/35%
Mike Mitchell: 4th year -10.2/2.7/2.6/80%/40%
Femi Odukale: 5th year - 10.7/6.4/3.0/50%/31%
Dawson Garcia: 5th year - 17.6/6.7/1.6/80%/31%
Frank Mitchell: 4th year -12.1/11.6/1.5/43%/-

Bench:
Brennan Rigsby: 4th year - 6.1/2.7/1.1/69%/35%
Trey Edmonds: 4th year. - 7.0/5.8/.3/46%/-
Parker Fox: 8th year - 5.1/2.9/.7/46%/-
Caleb Williams: 5th year - 20.0/4/2.5/84%/34%
Kadyn Betts: 3rd year
Isaac Asuma: 1st year
Grayson Grove: 1st year

That is a ridiculously old group. I'm not sure how well they compete in the B10. I remember him talking about "Old Wins" earlier in his tenure, looks like he finally got it. He actually kinda had that his first year with Stephens/Loewe/Willis/Battle/Sutherlin and I think they were playing well to start the year, but he had no bigs. Sean Sutherlin was playing PF at points that year.
Click to expand...
Well done- thanks for putting that together. I have added points/rebs/assists/FT%/3pt%

If this ends up being the roster you have two guys that have scored big at this level and a bunch of guys who are good rotation players. Ben's history has been that he has trouble seeing his bench during the game. He sticks with his starters. The strength of this team appears to be that there is a wealth of situational players. I think that the story of next year will be written based on Ben's ability to put 10 guys in game situations they can succeed in.

4 of these guys shoot FTs at 50% or worse. We hope they get better but that is an issue to work around.
Need a 3 point shot or are in a foul situation? Caleb Williams
Need defense or drives to the basket- Rigsby/Odukale and Patterson

How will Betts and Asuma fit in? Asuma will play for sure. How much? As far as Betts, I can't believe he would have returned if he and Ben didn't see him playing at least 10-15 minutes and being ready for that role.

IF Odukale, Patterson and Mitchell are incoming starters that's 37.4 pts/21.4rebs and 7 assists
replacing:
Payne/Christie and Hawkins who had a collective tally of 30.8pts/13.3 Rebs and 10.9 assists

The replacements match the outgoing production nicely but they didn't do it in the Big Ten.
 

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