Seriously How Can The Gophers Compete???

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eker0016 said:
It looks like Ben's strategy is to put together experienced rosters. Essentially recreating the scrappy 12 seed mid/low major who can knock off 5 seeds because they are all 2-3 years older than the more talented players. While sprinkling in a few local MN guys who want to be here (like a Dawson Garcia, Parker Fox).

Assuming we sign Patterson and Edmonds, the years in a college program are:

Starters:
Lu'Cye Patterson: 5th year
Mike Mitchell: 4th year
Femi Odukale: 5th year
Dawson Garcia: 5th year
Frank Mitchell: 4th year

Bench:
Brennan Rigsby: 4th year
Trey Edmonds: 4th year
Parker Fox: 8th year
Caleb Williams: 5th year
Kadyn Betts: 3rd year
Isaac Asuma: 1st year
Grayson Grove: 1st year

That is a ridiculously old group. I'm not sure how well they compete in the B10. I remember him talking about "Old Wins" earlier in his tenure, looks like he finally got it. He actually kinda had that his first year with Stephens/Loewe/Willis/Battle/Sutherlin and I think they were playing well to start the year, but he had no bigs. Sean Sutherlin was playing PF at points that year.
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I like it feel better about the players on 24/25 team, than the guys we lost. I see experience and hard nosed guys that have something to prove—That they belong in the upper half of the Big Ten, good job Ben!
 


daveozark said:
Seriously, how can the Gophers compete in the BigTen when the only players that commit rank in the sub 90 range typically with 3 stars on the 24/7 Sports Transfer Portal. Discouraging to see teams like Ohio State and Indiana add portal recruits that rank 90-96 with a 4 or 5 star rating, sounds hopeless for the Gophs I know. So just throw your hands up in the air and surrender right? Hell no!! There has got to be a way to compete.

I suggest Coach Ben make this team a defensive, pressing machine with motors that are always running. A team that is constantly irritating, causing havoc in the backcourt by 3 or 4 guys always on the ball, and unsettling the timing of the opponent’s offense. A team that that is going to make the 4 or 5 star guys on the other side have to work to get ball in the basket. The Team needs to understand that 8-10 players are going to get at least 15 minutes of playing time each game, as a non-stop pressing team needs to platoon substitute every 5-8 minutes to keep everyone fresh.

That scheme could work or maybe not so much, but my point is that the coaching staff needs to figure out a way to give this team an edge so they can be competitive. Now is the time to put a plan in place so that by October everyone knows his role.
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Play games 🤷‍♂️
 


bga1 said:
Well done- thanks for putting that together. I have added points/rebs/assists/FT%/3pt%

If this ends up being the roster you have two guys that have scored big at this level and a bunch of guys who are good rotation players. Ben's history has been that he has trouble seeing his bench during the game. He sticks with his starters. The strength of this team appears to be that there is a wealth of situational players. I think that the story of next year will be written based on Ben's ability to put 10 guys in game situations they can succeed in.

4 of these guys shoot FTs at 50% or worse. We hope they get better but that is an issue to work around.
Need a 3 point shot or are in a foul situation? Caleb Williams
Need defense or drives to the basket- Rigsby/Odukale and Patterson

How will Betts and Asuma fit in? Asuma will play for sure. How much? As far as Betts, I can't believe he would have returned if he and Ben didn't see him playing at least 10-15 minutes and being ready for that role.

IF Odukale, Patterson and Mitchell are incoming starters that's 37.4 pts/21.4rebs and 7 assists
replacing:
Payne/Christie and Hawkins who had a collective tally of 30.8pts/13.3 Rebs and 10.9 assists

The replacements match the outgoing production nicely but they didn't do it in the Big Ten.
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Good rundown of the situation!
 


daveozark said:
I like it feel better about the players on 24/25 team, than the guys we lost. I see experience and hard nosed guys that have something to prove—That they belong in the upper half of the Big Ten, good job Ben!
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Pete Yukon Podcast says our new team is gritty with intangibles.
 


Obi-Wan Okogie said:
Just saw an article that said Payne was asking for 500K just to talk to him and Texas A&M gave him that. That article then said that is more than the entire Gophers NIL budget. If that is even close to true, we are absolutely toast. If our entire budget cant match what other teams can spend on one player we have ZERO chance to compete with high level players. That's not even one hand tied behind your back, that's just a human head trying to compete in a fight.
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There's a whole thread on this. Highly doubt he got $500K.
 

upnorthkid said:
if Ben can’t get this team to the tourney, he deserves the gate. Team will be very experienced and should have the tools to get there
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Feels like a team without high end talent, but should be physical, not turn the ball over, and we absolutely need to be a Top 50 Defensive team in the country.

I like this team. NCAA tournament is reasonable. Need to make it happen.
 



eker0016 said:
It looks like Ben's strategy is to put together experienced rosters. Essentially recreating the scrappy 12 seed mid/low major who can knock off 5 seeds because they are all 2-3 years older than the more talented players. While sprinkling in a few local MN guys who want to be here (like a Dawson Garcia, Parker Fox).

Assuming we sign Patterson and Edmonds, the years in a college program are:

Starters:
Lu'Cye Patterson: 5th year
Mike Mitchell: 4th year
Femi Odukale: 5th year
Dawson Garcia: 5th year
Frank Mitchell: 4th year

Bench:
Brennan Rigsby: 4th year
Trey Edmonds: 4th year
Parker Fox: 8th year
Caleb Williams: 5th year
Kadyn Betts: 3rd year
Isaac Asuma: 1st year
Grayson Grove: 1st year

That is a ridiculously old group. I'm not sure how well they compete in the B10. I remember him talking about "Old Wins" earlier in his tenure, looks like he finally got it. He actually kinda had that his first year with Stephens/Loewe/Willis/Battle/Sutherlin and I think they were playing well to start the year, but he had no bigs. Sean Sutherlin was playing PF at points that year.
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It seems we romanticize the "old" year one group a lot. Sure they had a some nice games. They also went 4-16 in the B1G. This new team is a lot more similar to that than many here seem to realize, I'm afraid. Will they go 4-16? No probably not. But it's closer to that than an NCAA bid.
 

howeda7 said:
It seems we romanticize the "old" year one group a lot. Sure they had a some nice games. They also went 4-16 in the B1G. This new team is a lot more similar to that than many here seem to realize, I'm afraid. Will they go 4-16? No probably not. But it's closer to that than an NCAA bid.
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Dawson Garcia is the difference, but of course we aren’t probably going to have a player of his caliber very often with this model. Have to take advantage of it and hope someone else (or 3) blow up!
 

I agree but it’s a deeper and more talented version of year one
 

Drake University Gopher said:
Dawson Garcia is the difference, but of course we aren’t probably going to have a player of his caliber very often with this model. Have to take advantage of it and hope someone else (or 3) blow up!
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The 2022 team had Jamison Battle and Peyton Willis. This team is certainly deeper than that one. I'm not sure the starting 5 is much better though.
 



howeda7 said:
The 2022 team had Jamison Battle and Peyton Willis. This team is certainly deeper than that one. I'm not sure the starting 5 is much better though.
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You’re right. And we just won’t know until they actually play, will we?
 
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howeda7 said:
The 2022 team had Jamison Battle and Peyton Willis. This team is certainly deeper than that one. I'm not sure the starting 5 is much better though.
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Exactly. Those were the unknowns who played well enough. We are starting with an All-B1G player in Dawson and hoping to add guys like Battle and Peyton.
 


daveozark said:
I like it feel better about the players on 24/25 team, than the guys we lost. I see experience and hard nosed guys that have something to prove—That they belong in the upper half of the Big Ten, good job Ben!
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If you compare (via transfer portals you choose which one) who they lost to who they brought in, this team took a massive step backward. At this time, obviously things can change, I don't see this team rising off the bottom of the BIG 10 to much.
 

RockChalk said:
If you compare (via transfer portals you choose which one) who they lost to who they brought in, this team took a massive step backward. At this time, obviously things can change, I don't see this team rising off the bottom of the BIG 10 to much.
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You may not appreciate the value of defense, discipline, physicality, maturity, and toughness in college basketball.
I suggest you look at the UCONN games in the Final Four for proof.
 

Sane24 said:
You may not appreciate the value of defense, discipline, physicality, maturity, and toughness in college basketball.
I suggest you look at the UCONN games in the Final Four for proof.
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HUH? 3-4 of UConns top players were soph's and one frosh. Newton and Spencer were grad students.

Did you look at our portal incoming compared to our outgoing? That is what I'm looking at for next year. I'm not sure the Gopher are very close to being in the UConn atmosphere.
 

RockChalk said:
HUH? 3-4 of UConns top players were soph's and one frosh. Newton and Spencer were grad students.

Did you look at our portal incoming compared to our outgoing? That is what I'm looking at for next year. I'm not sure the Gopher are very close to being in the UConn atmosphere.
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I agree 100% we are NOT UCONN!
I am speaking about the toughness, physicality, discipline which I feel a dose of maturity will add to the Gophers next year. We got OLDER and TOUGHER when the three Sophomores transferred out and all the Seniors and Grad Students transferred IN!
 

Sane24 said:
I agree 100% we are NOT UCONN!
I am speaking about the toughness, physicality, discipline which I feel a dose of maturity will add to the Gophers next year. We got OLDER and TOUGHER when the three Sophomores transferred out and all the Seniors and Grad Students transferred IN!
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Good post.

My OP was about what we lost in comparison to what we are bringing in. IMO the team took a step backward talent wise. I haven't seen enough to believe that the current coaching staff can coach up a less talented team to a higher standard.
 

RockChalk said:
Good post.

My OP was about what we lost in comparison to what we are bringing in. IMO the team took a step backward talent wise. I haven't seen enough to believe that the current coaching staff can coach up a less talented team to a higher standard.
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You may be right, but losing the three sophomores; Keinys (fr); Christie (fr), and Ihnen(soft as pudding) did nothing to hurt our toughness. The whole team now has mature,tough leadership that will change their entire personality of the team.
We both have our opinions and I may be wrong, but I DOUBT IT!
 


Sane24 said:
You may be right, but losing the three sophomores; Keinys (fr); Christie (fr), and Ihnen(soft as pudding) did nothing to hurt our toughness. The whole team now has mature,tough leadership that will change their entire personality of the team.
We both have our opinions and I may be wrong, but I DOUBT IT!
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OK. I hope you are right however I doubt it.

2/3 of the players you name were non factors with regards to toughness. Now if you look at losing Payne and Carrington, who was probably their toughest one on one defender, then lets talk about what they lost for toughness. From a pure talent point of view the team took a step backwards.

What has given you optimism that this coaching staff has the ability to coach lesser talent?
 

Sane24 said:
You may be right, but losing the three sophomores; Keinys (fr); Christie (fr), and Ihnen(soft as pudding) did nothing to hurt our toughness. The whole team now has mature,tough leadership that will change their entire personality of the team.
We both have our opinions and I may be wrong, but I DOUBT IT!
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I agree that it will help to have a more veteran team, and if the new guys can show some better defense than last year's team they would have a chance to be better.

And they would also have a chance to be better if between Patterson, Asuma, Mitchell, Rigsby, Okudale, and Williams, they find a combination that works and can manufacture some scoring and better defense than last year.

This group of guards should be much more physical and should play better defense than last year's group-and they should be deeper. And those things usually lead to better results.
 

RockChalk said:
OK. I hope you are right however I doubt it.

2/3 of the players you name were non factors with regards to toughness. Now if you look at losing Payne and Carrington, who was probably their toughest one on one defender, then lets talk about what they lost for toughness. From a pure talent point of view the team took a step backwards.

What has given you optimism that this coaching staff has the ability to coach lesser talent?
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The incoming transfers have aready been coached up for 4-5 years by their previous coaches.
Most of those kids already know basic basketball fundamentals. They just have to learn the team-centric basics.
You may not believe me, but I have coached since 1960, because i am 79 years-old, so I know a little bit about immature behavior by teen-agers.
MATURITY IS A GOOD THING!
 

RockChalk said:
If you compare (via transfer portals you choose which one) who they lost to who they brought in, this team took a massive step backward. At this time, obviously things can change, I don't see this team rising off the bottom of the BIG 10 to much.
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I disagree. A basketball team is about fitting pieces together, not the most individual talent. If it was, Kentucky would have won multiple titles in the past decade. Arkansas won the portal last year after making a run the year before. They were god awful.

There is no doubt the Gophers lost two players with pro potential in Christie and Payne and a very entertaining PG in Hawkins. Most teams lose players every year and someone steps up. I wish we had kept all three.

Each of the big three we lost had some major drawbacks. I believe we were better with Fox and Garcia paired than Payne and Garcia. Payne could only be effective in the low post with the ball. He was ball dominant and if he had to pass or wander from the basket, he was very bad. Frank Mitchell and Fox are both plus passers and do not need the ball to impact the game. They are perfect offensively for Garcia. They lose a little with interior defense, but Edmonds should mitigate that somewhat.

Hawkins was brilliant with his quickness and passes that led to baskets. However he was ball dominant and did not finish well. Defensively, he was a good backcourt pressure defender, but in the half court he was a liability. The ball will move so much better with the 5 guards they have. Anyone can take it up court. Defensively, they will guard so much better replacing Christie and Hawkins with Asuma and the portal guys. Big wings are no longer a problem and we are not forced to play an offensively challenged Carrington to defend them. I do think Hawkins had a knack for making big shots and I will miss that.

Christie will be a very good pro I believe. He will also be bigger and stronger. His shot making ability and skill from the mid range and deep will be missed the most of anything they lost. However, he was not a great finisher and defender.

I think Coach Johnson knows he has to make the Tournament this year and constructed a mature team with great role players who will be better than the sum of their parts.
 

Keep in mind, they will replace Christie soon and if they do a good job with the portal,we may have another very good scorer in the lineup next year.
 

Sane24 said:
Keep in mind, they will replace Christie soon and if they do a good job with the portal,we may have another very good scorer in the lineup next year.
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A very good scorer at this stage in the game would come at a high cost. I doubt we have the budget for that player.
 

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