Sally's Property Redevelopment

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SamSquatch

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Hi all -

I just want to make this group aware of a likely redevelopment of the current site of Sally's. The space would be bulldozed to build high-end student apartments. The outside space would no longer exist:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/public/@cped/documents/webcontent/wcms1p-104917.pdf
http://finance-commerce.com/2013/03/more-student-units-proposed-near-u-of-m-campus/


Sally's is a classic establishment and a place that really adds to Stadium Village's soul. While Sally's is likely to be a tenant in the first floor retail space created, it would lack the patio area and the original charm. The University is really defining it's character currently with the massive changes such as the Central Corridor and the updating of Dinkytown (House of Hanson, Duffy's Pizza, Podium Guitar shop, etc., are all being lost for additional apartments).

I wouldn't consider myself one to "stand in the way of progress", but I think there are tangential benefits to keeping anchors that help define University areas - primarily alumni relations. I was hoping something like a Sally's or a Town Hall would move into the Station 19 space. Instead we got BWW. As it stands, I think this current proposal is a poor move and an unfortunate one for alumni.

I thought this might be of interest to other season ticket holders. It goes before the Minneapolis City Planning Commission tonight, and I have written an email expressing my thoughts. I would encourage you to write as well. If there are others that feel differently, I completely understand that. Just sharing.
 

SamSquatch said:
Hi all -

I just want to make this group aware of a likely redevelopment of the current site of Sally's. The space would be bulldozed to build high-end student apartments. The outside space would no longer exist:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/public/@cped/documents/webcontent/wcms1p-104917.pdf
http://finance-commerce.com/2013/03/more-student-units-proposed-near-u-of-m-campus/


Sally's is a classic establishment and a place that really adds to Stadium Village's soul. While Sally's is likely to be a tenant in the first floor retail space created, it would lack the patio area and the original charm. The University is really defining it's character currently with the massive changes such as the Central Corridor and the updating of Dinkytown (House of Hanson, Duffy's Pizza, Podium Guitar shop, etc., are all being lost for additional apartments).

I wouldn't consider myself one to "stand in the way of progress", but I think there are tangential benefits to keeping anchors that help define University areas - primarily alumni relations. I was hoping something like a Sally's or a Town Hall would move into the Station 19 space. Instead we got BWW. As it stands, I think this current proposal is a poor move and an unfortunate one for alumni.

I thought this might be of interest to other season ticket holders. It goes before the Minneapolis City Planning Commission tonight, and I have written an email expressing my thoughts. I would encourage you to write as well. If there are others that feel differently, I completely understand that. Just sharing.
Click to expand...

The progress planned is bad, really bad. Say goodbye to the Big Ten while we are at it if things go as planned. More student housing is not needed...at least there.
 

I admit, I am absolutely bummed that the Sally's as I know it won't be there anymore. It probably has something to do with it making me feel old, it's like they are bulldozing all of my 1/2 memories and biggest regrets.

I feel you about the University losing some of its charm. It's hard for me to have an opinion because I'm sure the class of 2020 will look at the new things with the same nostalgia as I looked at Sally's, but still.
 

tikited said:
The progress planned is bad, really bad. Say goodbye to the Big Ten while we are at it if things go as planned. More student housing is not needed...at least there.
Click to expand...

The U wants to get some money from the off campus housing. Instead of the money going to the people who own the rental properties, more and more of that money is going to be funneled into the U.
 

Hmm. Well the gentrification of campus is marching forward. It would suck to lose Sally's since we really have few if any places on campus to go pre-game.
 


As long as Sally's gets to be the first floor tenant in the new building, I don't have a problem with it at all. More students living in Stadium Village is a good thing, Sally's getting a fresh building is a good thing, and if outdoor space is what we're upset about losing, go to Stub and Herbs.
 

The worst part about some of these luxury housing developments, is a lot of them are getting trashed by the students that live there. Some of them are an eyesore from an architecture standpoint. But the worst part about it, is students will feel the need to live in these places, and banks will have no problem handing out student loans if their parents can't afford to pay for their housing. That will only increase the student loan bubble this country already has. I suppose progress is inevitable, but altering/eliminating foundations of the campus culture so a few real estate companies can rake in money from a bunch of students is unfortunate.
 

Man. I'm not sure what to think. I am torn. I have a lot of memories from college at Sally's and other places in that area. But, getting more student housing in that area isn't all that bad either, meaning more student apartments. Like others, Sally's is an institution as it currently is, at least for myself. So, as long as they are still a 1st floor tenant, I guess I would probably be ok with it.

I really have no idea what to think. I'll have to think about this for a while.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The U wants to get some money from the off campus housing. Instead of the money going to the people who own the rental properties, more and more of that money is going to be funneled into the U.
Click to expand...

Like the whopping $16 k from the beer sales? I get the U wanting more money, but they should not be trusted to successfully pull this off. Wait for Surely to get their wonderland completed and build there. Leave the business owners alone.
 



e.bigelow said:
Man. I'm not sure what to think. I am torn. I have a lot of memories from college at Sally's and other places in that area. But, getting more student housing in that area isn't all that bad either, meaning more student apartments. Like others, Sally's is an institution as it currently is, at least for myself. So, as long as they are still a 1st floor tenant, I guess I would probably be ok with it.

I really have no idea what to think. I'll have to think about this for a while.
Click to expand...

There is already plenty of additional housing going in/has been built in Stadium Village. The risk here is that with all of these changes the U of M campus loses any character that it had to begin with whether it is Stadium Village or Dinkytown. Every new building just seems to be making campus feel that much more generic.
 

The preliminary floor plans at least include a courtyard/patio for one of the restaurant tenants (I'm would hope Sally's would get first crack at it). However, it's surrounded on three sides by a 6-level structure, and is open only on the north side. It will be a dark, cold, depressing place to sit and have a beer.

The last thing campus needs is more "high end" student apartments. They are sprouting up everywhere. I have no idea how students can afford these (yes, I understand they just throw more debt on the students loans, but c'mon).

Sally's as-is is an institution, and I will be very sad to see it replicated into a new, generic space. It was by far our favorite hang out during and after my time at the U. Guess I'm now officially an old-timer, where I can say, "back in my day..."
 

I am sure the younger students would make new memories at Sally's. Perhaps it is the right way to go. That said, when I think about top establishment's at other campuses, their is usually some history behind them. Stub & Herbs is still an option for us, but there is a saturation point and I think more outdoor space is better. There is also a glut of other apartment housing going up at the University right now. Just for some additional context (I know the F&C article requires a password):

"Finance & Commerce is tracking a total 1,587 that are either proposed or under construction near the campus.

The site is directly across the street from the Station on Washington, a 97-unit project under construction at 630 Washington Ave SE...CPM is also building the Elysian a 57-unit project at 401 8th Ave SE."

The proposed Sally's building is a 6-story structure.
 

If they want to bulldoze Al's they'll have to take me with it.
 



Al's Breakfast, Vescios, Stub & Herbs, and McDonalds are institutions in Dinkytown and Stadium Village. Sally's is a Johnny-come-lately that will be easily replaced.
 

Go4Broke said:
Al's Breakfast, Vescios, Stub & Herbs, and McDonalds are institutions in Dinkytown and Stadium Village. Sally's is a Johnny-come-lately that will be easily replaced.
Click to expand...

Yes, nothing says campus institution and irreplaceable like McDonald's. :pig:
 

Stan said:
Yes, nothing says campus institution and irreplaceable like McDonald's. :pig:
Click to expand...

Hey, McDonald's has been in Dinkytown for almost 50 years. EVERY student who has attended the U during that period has eaten there at one time or another. It won't be long before it is eligible for listing on the National Register of Historic Places. Just try to get rid of it then.
 

Sally's will be replaced by another college bar somewhere with inexperienced but attractive waitresses and the smell of stale beer on the air.
 

Ski U Master said:
Sally's will be replaced by another college bar somewhere with inexperienced but attractive waitresses and the smell of stale beer on the air.
Click to expand...

So you are saying the college bar that replaces Sally's will provide exactly the same experience for U students that has been provided at every other college in the world since they invented colleges and beer?
 

Go4Broke said:
So you are saying the college bar that replaces Sally's will provide exactly the same experience for U students that has been provided at every other college in the world since they invented colleges and beer?
Click to expand...

Yep, it won't provide that unique experience that can only be found at the McDonald's.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yep, it won't provide that unique experience that can only be found at the McDonald's.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't describe eating at the Dinkytown McDonald's as being the same as eating at any other McDonald's in the world.

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Gopherdrummer said:
There is already plenty of additional housing going in/has been built in Stadium Village. The risk here is that with all of these changes the U of M campus loses any character that it had to begin with whether it is Stadium Village or Dinkytown. Every new building just seems to be making campus feel that much more generic.
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Yes, you are right. I had to think about it a little. It has been almost 5 years since I graduated from the U so I tend to forget things a little. :)

I try to take some time to see how they are 'developing' Stadium Village or Dinkytown when I am down at games, but I don't get to take as much time as I would like. Living in West Central MN now, I have to rely on people like yourself Gopherdrummer for valued opinions on those areas of campus now as I don't get down as much as I would like.
 

Go4Broke said:
So you are saying the college bar that replaces Sally's will provide exactly the same experience for U students that has been provided at every other college in the world since they invented colleges and beer?
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Yep. Sally's is nothing special, just a typical college campus bar. Pretty solid waffle fries too.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The U wants to get some money from the off campus housing. Instead of the money going to the people who own the rental properties, more and more of that money is going to be funneled into the U.
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This is a private development. This will not be owned by the U
 

As much as I hate to see Sally's go, this is much needed. The buildings they are tearing down are really not that old, and of no historic value. It appears Sally's will have the main space on the 1st floor which is much bigger than their current space. The patio will be about the same size as their current one. (they only use the parking lot a handful of times a year) We have to remember that the U is in the middle of a very large metro. Density is a necessity. The location right near a LRT line makes this a prime spot for greater density.

And to the comment regarding House of Hanson, Podium and Duffy's. Their owners SOLD that land. And those structures are only a few decades old and bring nothing historic to Dinkytown. That complex will also be a great addition. The old store fronts on 4th and 14th will remain the same. Al's will not be touched.

And regards to complaints about high-end apartments. The more of these they build, they more competition that is brought on those complexes that are 5,10,15 years old. That will make them charge a more reasonable price. So it all works out. Supply and demand at play here. And again, we need more density in the core. Even surrounding our campus.
 

A friend of mine and I were discussing all these new developments. Since I started at the U in '09, I think at least 16 of these new apartments (within 1/2 mile of campus) have been either built or are currently under construction. That is a large influx of beds, could be up to a few thousand new people close to campus. At some point, the market will dry up, but it doesn't seem to be losing momentum.

I help teach a course at the U, and the instructor went to Ohio State for undergrad and is a big football guy. One of the main differences he pointed out between the U and Ohio State is the amount of dorms. OSU has tons while the U lacks. Of these 16 new developments, only 1 of them is a dorm.
 

DLguy said:
As much as I hate to see Sally's go, this is much needed. The buildings they are tearing down are really not that old, and of no historic value. It appears Sally's will have the main space on the 1st floor which is much bigger than their current space. The patio will be about the same size as their current one. (they only use the parking lot a handful of times a year) We have to remember that the U is in the middle of a very large metro. Density is a necessity. The location right near a LRT line makes this a prime spot for greater density.

And to the comment regarding House of Hanson, Podium and Duffy's. Their owners SOLD that land. And those structures are only a few decades old and bring nothing historic to Dinkytown. That complex will also be a great addition. The old store fronts on 4th and 14th will remain the same. Al's will not be touched.

And regards to complaints about high-end apartments. The more of these they build, they more competition that is brought on those complexes that are 5,10,15 years old. That will make them charge a more reasonable price. So it all works out. Supply and demand at play here. And again, we need more density in the core. Even surrounding our campus.
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The idea is to get rid of just about everything near Sally's. All new all the time. The whole line of businesses surrounding the Big Ten would be lost as well. It never just stops here in Mpls. Must build more condos (or whatever they are calling them) all of the time. Must get rid of anything that doesn't look just like everything else.. Not a fan of this line of thinking at all.
 

tikited said:
The idea is to get rid of just about everything near Sally's. All new all the time. The whole line of businesses surrounding the Big Ten would be lost as well. It never just stops here in Mpls. Must build more condos (or whatever they are calling them) all of the time. Must get rid of anything that doesn't look just like everything else.. Not a fan of this line of thinking at all.
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There are no current plans to get rid of everything near Sally's. Just the building that houses Sally's and Gold Country. The entire rest of the block will remain. There will be plenty of charm and character in Stadium Village and Dinkytown. The historic stuff will remain. The run down and crappy buildings that would cost more to repair, and the surface parking will be the ones where projects will be developed.
 

Historic is a relative term. Old is not historic. Run down is not historic.
 

Agree with the posters who aren't too concerned about this. I hope at some point in the future I'll be pining for the outdoor pregame space, but as it stands now there's plenty of room at Stub and Herbs (unfortunately) and Sally's never did it for me as a bar. I spent 5+ years living around campus and I think I only went there once before I started coming back to campus for football games. And that one time was for lunch with my parents. I've got no problem with Sally's, but it's pretty much the definition of a generic college bar.
 

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