Rivals Class of 2008 Centers:Ralph Sampson III rated #12, #2 statistically=outperform

[NCAAGophers]

.

THE SCOUT! should change his name to THE LIAR!. First of all the argument is who had the better four year career. Let me write this again for FOUR YEAR CAREER. I didn't ask who would you rather have this year. I gave you total career stats and yearly averages. Ralph has put up better number over the last four years than anyone other than Zeller. I have seen you continually post negative, BS comments about Sampson. Just say you don't like him, but there is still no denying he outpeformed his ranking. You can't cherry pick a season or game stats. So by your logic Kevin Durant has been better than Kobe for the last four years? This isn't a who's hot right now thread, it's a comparison of four year college careers. Like I stated previously, I used avg to show comparisons as well which totally takes into account redshirting,etc. Sampson has been the most consistent. I am tired of responding. If you find someone who has better numbers than Sampson since 2008 other than Zeller let me know.

 

[NCAAGophers]

[/QUOTE]Ralph:

6.0 pts - 7.0 rebs - 2.5 blks - 0 assists - 3.0 TOs : (27% shooting)
Berggren:
7.0 pts - 5.5 rebs - 1.5 blks - .5 assists - 2.0 TOs: (30 % shooting)

Those are pretty similar stats. Right now, i'd rather have Berggren,

I forgot to respond to this ridiculousness as well. Taking your numbers as true, Berggren scored one more point, but RSIII grabbed 1.5 more rebounds and blocked 1 more shot and you'd rather have Berggren?? Not me. Did you watch the last game? Berggren made zero offense moves against Ralph and isn't nearly the defensive post presence. Plus, Berg has the benefit of playing alongside Jordan Taylor who is a NBA caliber PG which somehow you want to ignore as being a major factor in a post players/ production. So you rather have two or three years of non production from Berggren to then have him at best play Sampson to a stand still? Please.

 

[THE SCOUT!]

Ralph lived up to his recruiting rating. He was not s super get. He did not improve that much since his freshman year.

 

[Winnipegopher]

I don't think many players are happy with their careers when they go 6-12 in their junior and senior year.

Anyway good luck to Ralph, I have a feeling he may get a shot at the next level.

 

[goldengophers]

You can also add Greg Monroe to the list, was listed as a PF/C out of High School but became a center immediately. In addition Nik Vucevic had a better college career at USC.

 

[Moses87]

Interesting post...Would be more interesting to see some of the centers in the 21-100 range and see how many gems were out there that everybody missed.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Wouldn't a better comparison be points/minute especially in those early years? While Sampson has more points/blocks/rebounds etc. for a career, how much of that is due to having played more minutes? While you can say "those players weren't good enough to play their freshmen years," would RSIII been given the other players on that team? I commend Ralph for coming in and playing right away, but to say someone who averaged 8ppg in 24 minutes a game is indisputably better than someone who average 2 ppg in 6 minutes is ridiculous. Chances are many other players would have had better careers here than Ralph, but they had to wait their turn getting fewer minutes in the early years. In all likelihood RSIII would have done the same at Kansas/Wisconsin/UNC. Just because he had less competition doesn't mean he was better.

So, in other words: trying to compare players based solely off stats, without taking into account the situations they came into, is idiotic.

Equally idiotic is the bolded statement. There is no way of knowing. I agree that its hard to know how some of these guys would have played early on if they had gotten the chance. The only thing we do know is that Sampson did play a lot early in his career and was pretty successful while many other didn't play much their first few years.

Either way, even if there are five or six guys in that original list that had better careers than Sampson, that still means he did better than a good percentage of the top C recruits that year.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I forgot to respond to this ridiculousness as well. Taking your numbers as true, Berggren scored one more point, but RSIII grabbed 1.5 more rebounds and blocked 1 more shot and you'd rather have Berggren?? Not me. Did you watch the last game? Berggren made zero offense moves against Ralph and isn't nearly the defensive post presence. Plus, Berg has the benefit of playing alongside Jordan Taylor who is a NBA caliber PG which somehow you want to ignore as being a major factor in a post players/ production. So you rather have two or three years of non production from Berggren to then have him at best play Sampson to a stand still? Please.

If you don't think those stats are similar, then you are unable to rationally talk about Ralph. My whole point of showing them is that Ralph did not outplay Berggren this season. They played to a stand still Berggren was part of 4 more points, 1 less TO, and 3 less rebounds than Ralph. Like I said in my last post, before your most recent conniption, those are pretty similar stats.

As far as who I would rather have, like I said, it's close. It all depends on who Berggren plays next season. If Berggren does not improve at all, Ralph has been the better the college basketball player. If Berggren shows slight improvement and averages...12 pts and 6 rebs a game, than i'd prefer Berggren. Like I said, I judge players on their peaks.

I don't think it's fair to judge career stats of a player who was getting a ton of PT as a FR with a player who wasn't. Most people's gripe with Ralph is that he was handed all of these minutes and he never really improved or got much better (hell, his FR season was better than his SR season).

Ralph's lack of improvement made it so that he was a slightly less than average post starter from the day he arrived on campus until the day he left. Berggren and Withey played behind good players.

It's kind of like Mbakwe, who would you rather have next season...Trevor or Ralph? Ralph has more career points and rebounds?

 

[Hammer]

He didn't help us win, that's all the statistics I need. A winner is a winner is a winner.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

You can also add Greg Monroe to the list, was listed as a PF/C out of High School but became a center immediately. In addition Nik Vucevic had a better college career at USC.

What?

Greg Monroe didn't have 1000 points? Ralph had 100 more career rebounds? How could you possibly rank Greg Monroe as a better player?

 

[HOOP DREAMS]

And a big thanks to RS3 for sticking it out all four years.

Maybe you should thank his dad. RSII was quoted saying something like... Ralph wanted to transfer after every season but he wouldn't let him.

Ralph also said he was going to be more vocal and a leader this season. I haven't seen it.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Maybe you should thank his dad. RSII was quoted saying something like... Ralph wanted to transfer after every season but he wouldn't let him.

Ralph also said he was going to be more vocal and a leader this season. I haven't seen it.

Do you have proof of this? You may be right, but I've never heard anything about Ralph wanting to transfer every year.

 

[goldengophers]

What?

Greg Monroe didn't have 1000 points? Ralph had 100 more career rebounds? How could you possibly rank Greg Monroe as a better player?

Haha

 

[BMEnGopher]

Equally idiotic is the bolded statement. There is no way of knowing. I agree that its hard to know how some of these guys would have played early on if they had gotten the chance. The only thing we do know is that Sampson did play a lot early in his career and was pretty successful while many other didn't play much their first few years.

Either way, even if there are five or six guys in that original list that had better careers than Sampson, that still means he did better than a good percentage of the top C recruits that year.

Hence the phrasing "chances are." We have no idea how any single one of these players would turn out in the others' position. So if I am idiotic for saying others may have had a better career, wouldn't that make you an idiot for saying with absolute certainty that he is better than a lot of players who played in different situations? Then why does this thread even exist if saying others may have had a better career here is "idiotic," but you saying he is better because he played more than others in different situations isn't? Or are you and NCAAGophers just looking for a rubber stamp on your personal opinion with any dissenting opinion being "idiotic"?

 

[akoch6767]

Good read. I would say that Byron Mullins would have continuously outperformed Sampson. The fact he is in the NBA, and only stuck around at OSU for a year averaging 8.8 ppg his freshman year, while playing on an outstanding team, shows that Mullins was able to utilize his god given talents early unlike Ralph, where we see the good and the bad on game to game basis. I like to compare these guys because their games are similar. Mullins was just able to make the jump into the NBA right away, Sampson may never get his shot. Mullins also accumulated all of these stats with limited play. Ralph's playtime has varied from 10 mins- 35 mins a game. Mullins averaged 20 mins per game as a freshman.

 

[minngg]

Do you have proof of this? You may be right, but I've never heard anything about Ralph wanting to transfer every year.

It's true. Interview with Ralph's dad he said some things about how his son wanted to transfer and he told him no.

 

[NCAAGophers]

For the fifth time. The bottom line is this :As far as centers from the HS class of 2008 , Ralph Sampson has put up better numbers over the last four years than everyone other than Zeller. That is not an opinion. It is a fact. Where are the numbers that suggest otherwise? I need 11 centers from the class of 2008 that have outperformed him over the last four years to prove he didn't outperform his 12th ranking coming out of HS. You guys can't even come up with 4 or 5 without extrapolating or making up numbers about performance next year. There are all sorts of variables that come into play, injury etc. and besides none of that changes or refutes the statement that Ralph has outperformed his ranking coming out of HS for the last four years. That's the idiotic piece of the argument.

As far as who would be better at this school or that school or next year or two years from now, it is purely speculative. I will agree to disagree, if you stop trying to erase facts. I did not start this thread to get into that discussion. I felt compelled to post the list that I got directly from Rivals.com in response to all the undeserved bashing that he was receiving leading up to Senior day which I felt were classless and baseless. When I did my research, which most of you refuse to do, I didn't cherrypick. You can't cherry pick by looking at an entire career. Some of you, like some in the media, want to find justification for your bias towards Sampson.

You cannot refute the fact that he has put up better numbers than Withey or Beggren over the course of his career by using imaginary scenarios about next year. Alot can happen in a year as we all know as Gopher fans. Someone mentioned that some players put up 2, 4, 6, 18. Withey and Berg are both currently scoring below double digits and averaged less than 3 points per game during their first two years while Sampson was putting up 8, 6 and 2. I never said that his numbers were the best all time, but they are what they are. And based on the numbers accumulated over the last four years, Sampson is the number #2 center from the HS class of 2008, and we were lucky to have him.

It really disgusts me that some you have so much thinly veiled hatred for one of our players who by all accounts has been a fine addition to both the basketball team and the alumni. Based on the reality of the past four seasons and the numbers that the players have amassed, RSIII outperformed his 12th ranking. You guys are trying to move players over from different positions and countries desperately trying to discredit his accomplishments. Why is that? Even with all the conjecturing and assumptions about next year, you still can't come up with more than a few players that have achieved or are on pace to achieve what he has. Ralph produced over the last four years. Maybe Berggren, Withey would have come close, maybe not but they have not and we'll never know.

RSIII has amassed over 1,000, 600 rebs and 200 blocks in his college career. None of the guys that you mentioned have done that are on pace to do that. There's no argument.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Hence the phrasing "chances are."

When someone says "chances are", it means "highly likely". So yes it is idiotic because we have no idea.

We have no idea how any single one of these players would turn out in the others' position.

That's why I base my opinion of these players solely by what actually happened.

So if I am idiotic for saying others may have had a better career, wouldn't that make you an idiot for saying with absolute certainty that he is better than a lot of players who played in different situations?

Please point to where I said Sampson was better than anyone. I've only talked about how successful his career has been, and there's a difference in my opinion.

Then why does this thread even exist if saying others may have had a better career here is "idiotic,"

First of all, the only reason I even used the word idiotic to begin with was because you used it. I also never said saying "others may have had a better career here" is idiotic. It's the fact that you said "Chances are many other players would have had better careers here than Ralph". Certainly some would have, but "many" usually means a lot. I don't know how you can make that assumption that many of these guys would have had a better career at the U than Ralph. Maybe I misinterpreted what you were trying to say. If that's the case, then I apologize.

but you saying he is better because he played more than others in different situations isn't?

Again, I was talking about his career being better, because, in my mind, someone who helps their team for four years is more successful than someone who helps your team for only two years, unless they are considerably better in those two years. If Berggren has a All-Conference type performance next year, then I might change my mind.

 

[BMEnGopher]

Alright because I don't want to study for my 2 tests this week I put this together quickly. I chose Jeff Withey just because he was one of the players that RSIII was being compared to. I honestly didn't look at any other players' stats. On a per minute basis (With Freshman year on top and only 3 years for Withey who is a RS Junior):

Points/min
Withey:
.4333
.371
.387

RSIII:
.303
.320
.351
.338

Reb/min
Withey:
.46667
.2903
.2647

RSIII:
.2019
.2266
.1862
.1966

Blks/min
Withey:
.1333
.1167
.1345

RSIII:
.07212
.0625
.06897
.05556

So statistically, RSIII never reached, in his best year, the efficiency in any of the 3 major categories of Withey in his WORST year. So this can easily boil down to what constitutes a "better career". Is it pure numbers or efficiency in their role? I believe a more successful career, at least in terms of being beneficial to the team, would be about efficiency. Maybe others disagree, and that's fine.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

You guys can't even come up with 4 or 5 without extrapolating or making up numbers about performance next year.

No one is extrapolating any numbers. The guys on the list have better numbers than Ralph THIS season. Ralph might have been better 3 years ago, but they are better than him now. You can simply look at their stats.

As far as who would be better at this school or that school or next year or two years from now, it is purely speculative.

Yet, you've done it all the time throughout this thread when it serves your purpose. If bringing up that Berggren got to play Jordan Taylor is relevant, than it is certainly relevant to bring up that Ralph put up better numbers as a FR because he was spoon-fed minutes for the failed hopes that he'd turn into a really good center. Both of those arguments are speculative.

I didn't cherrypick. You can't cherry pick by looking at an entire career.

Yeah, like bringing up that Ralph Sampson marginally outplayed Berggrenn in JUST their latest head-to-head? That isn't cherry picking?

You cannot refute the fact that he has put up better numbers than Withey or Beggren over the course of his career by using imaginary scenarios about next year.

No one is refuting that Ralph has scored more career points. We are refuting that he is a better basketball player today than those guys. No one is bringing up imaginary scenarios, Withey is having a better year this year than ANY season by Ralph. No need to get into imaginary scenarios. Berggren, as I said in my original post, it's close. If he slightly improves next years (like most players do), he is better than Ralph. If he stays the same, he'll be about the same as Ralph.

Withey and Berg are both currently scoring below double digits and averaged less than 3 points per game during their first two years while Sampson was putting up 8, 6 and 2.

...and Ralph hasn't improved, while those guys have both improved to be better than Ralph (absolutely with Withey and debatable with Berggren).

RSIII has amassed over 1,000, 600 rebs and 200 blocks in his college career. None of the guys that you mentioned have done that are on pace to do that. There's no argument. [/B]

Nope, and Ralph will never have a season as good as Withey's season is right now.

We get it, Ralph played a ton when he was young and he has been pretty much the same player from the moment he came to the U as he is today. He is set to graduate and he's been a model citizen, and he should be commended for that. However, to argue that the only way to value a player is to look at the total points they've amassed over the course of their career is laughable.

 

[HOOP DREAMS]

Sampson said his son thought about transferring from Minnesota to another school. “Every year, like everybody else,” Ralph II said. “First year to this year. I wouldn’t let him leave. We started it, we’re gonna finish it.” -Per Shama

If his dad wouldn't have stopped him and he would have transferred too...? Would anyone disagree with firing Tubby?

 

[NCAAGophers]

RSIII has amassed over 1,000, 600 rebs and 200 blocks in his college career. None of the guys that you mentioned have done that are on pace to do that. There's no argument. You can say whatever you want but that fact remains. Look at gophersports.com, Einstein.

On second thought from gophersports.com (not me or my opinion):

Sampson III Reaches Milestone:
Trevor Mbakwe had been the talk of the Gophers entering the season but the other senior co-captain, Ralph Sampson III, will finish his Minnesota career as one of the best big men in program history.
He also become just the fifth player to finish his Gopher career with 1,000 points, 500 rebounds and 150 blocks (Kevin McHale, Randy Breuer, Mychal Thompson and Michael Bauer). He currently sits with 201 career blocks, just the third Gopher player to reach 200 in a career.

So go have an argument with the Gopher history books and the athletic department. See how far that gets you since you love arguing against reality.All of this is just your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions-opinions are like ___ everyone has one.

I never said that Sampson was the greatest player of all time or that total career stats are the only way to evaluate a player. There is no arguing his production since he got here and no arguing that he has outproduced all of the guys that you mentioned by the way that most people look at basketball stats. They don't make adjustments for career stats and he has the better career stats. As Kobe climbs the scoring ladder, they aren't taking any of that into account. Kareem played longer than most, but you don't hear people say that he wasn't any good. You can argue that someone was better but you can't totally toss career numbers out of the window due to your own personal bias.That's what it so great because no one can ever take that away from Ralph who endured far too much undue criticism.

I'm happy because it does not matter how much you or anyone else want to bitch and moan and try to discredit him (Why the heck would you want to do that????). Seriously, you don't have anything better to do than to try to belittle someone who gave four years to the Gophers and was a starter on back to back tourney teams. That's just sick to me.

His stats and place in Gopher history are set. It could have been better, but they were alot of factors beyond his control which any reasonable and rational person would acknowledge. His career numbers are what they are. You have no idea how what other guys could've, would've done.

I give up trying to explain this to you. Some people are just too dense. You even agreed that in terms of production, Ralph has been more productive. All of the rest of the back in forth is just your opinion. I shared mine about factors outside of the numbers just like you did, but none of that changes the facts.

Ralph outperformed his ranking of the 12th center coming out of HS even if I buy your argument for one or two of the guys (which i don't and the career numbers don't show thus far.) Why can't you just admit that? Why do you hate him so badly? It makes you look like a jackass to say he did not outperform his HS ranking.

I don't care who you think is better right now. It's just your opinion. This was a thread out career performance from the centers of the Class of 2008. Even if i gave you Withey and Berggren (who is no more than a tie at best) that still put Sampson above his initial ranking and in the top 5.

Give me some guys that have over 1,000 pts, 600 rebs and 200 blocks from the HS class of 2008 centers or go drink a nice tall class of shut the Hell up!

 

[cclaufer]

Would anyone disagree with firing Tubby?

I would disagree

 

[scher215]

Sampson said his son thought about transferring from Minnesota to another school. “Every year, like everybody else,” Ralph II said. “First year to this year. I wouldn’t let him leave. We started it, we’re gonna finish it.” -Per Shama

If his dad wouldn't have stopped him and he would have transferred too...? Would anyone disagree with firing Tubby?

They asked Ralph about this and he said, at least his freshman year, it was about it being a new thing. Being in MN. Away from his family, etc. and his dad told him to stick it out.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I never said that Sampson was the greatest player of all time or that total career stats are the only way to evaluate a player. There is no arguing his production since he got here and no arguing that he has outproduced all of the guys that you mentioned by the way that most people look at basketball stats.

No one is arguing with you that Ralph did more as a FR....(read that line again, now, read it again, now, take a breath breath and read it again). People are saying that some other players turned out to be better players, in their opinion. You can disagree, it's not a big deal. But showing that Ralph scored more career points is not going to change people's opinions when those players are putting up better numbers now.

You can argue that someone was better but you can't totally toss career numbers out of the window due to your own personal bias.

If I am bias towards anyone it's a Gopher. I'm a Gopher rube. We can't throw out career numbers and you can't throw out their numbers this season. The question that started your conniption fit is "who would you rather have?"...i'd rather have the guy who is better today, right now. Than the guy who was further along in 2009.

I'm happy because it does not matter how much you or anyone else want to bitch and moan and try to discredit him (Why the heck would you want to do that????). Seriously, you don't have anything better to do than to try to belittle someone who gave four years to the Gophers and was a starter on back to back tourney teams. That's just sick to me.

No one is discrediting or belittling him, just saying that there are a handful of C's we'd rather have than him. It's a respectful and honest sports discussion.

His stats and place in Gopher history are set. It could have been better, but they were alot of factors beyond his control which any reasonable and rational person would acknowledge. His career numbers are what they are. You have no idea how what other guys could've, would've done.

Didn't you just get done crying about other people speculating about other C's? Now you demand everyone to speculate on what coulda-been for Ralph if not for those factors outside of his control?

No one is saying anything about what other guys could have done, we are saying that Withey IS having a better season than any of Ralph's, right now. No, "coulda" / "woulda", that's a firm "is".

Ralph outperformed his ranking of the 12th center coming out of HS even if I buy your argument for one or two of the guys (which i don't and the career numbers don't show thus far.) Why can't you just admit that? Why do you hate him so badly? It makes you look like a jackass to say he did not outperform his HS ranking.

I certainly don't hate Ralph, I've said it multiple times that I root for every Gopher. You're just not able to have a rational conversation without resorting to crying and hysteria.

Give me some guys that have over 1,000 pts, 600 rebs and 200 blocks from the HS class of 2008 centers or go drink a nice tall class of shut the Hell up!

Ha...read it again.......no one is arguing that all of the other players have those career numbers. We are arguing that those players are better right now! Read it again.

Here is a list of guys averaging more than 8 pts and 5 rebs / game THIS YEAR.
Kenny Frease
Jared Berggrenn
Jeff Withey
Henry Sims
Gregory Echinique (he's another guy who has obviously had a better career than RS3)
Jason Washburn
Tyler Zeller

--Also, BJ Mullens is putting up 9 and 4 in the NBA

- - - So yep, I agree that Ralph has amassed more career points/rebs/blocks than any of these guys. However, Ralph is STATISTICALLY (no opinion), worse than every one of these players this year, right now.

 

[BMEnGopher]

Give me some guys that have over 1,000 pts, 600 rebs and 200 blocks from the HS class of 2008 centers or go drink a nice tall class of shut the Hell up!

We agree that RSIII stood on the court much more than a lot of other centers in the class, which allowed him to amass some impressive raw numbers. However he was not an efficient player by comparison to a lot players. After doing some more calculations, in terms of efficiency, he was pretty similar to Henry Sims of Georgetown. For instance, if RSIII had the same efficiency for each of his first 3 years playing as Whitey, along with the lowest of each of those 3 totals as a 4th year, he would be walking out of the U with 1,258 points; 1,042 rebounds; and 403 blocks. Bolded, because you seem to enjoy bolding so much.

It's essentially the Favre vs. Marino debate. Favre put up more Gaudy career numbers, but it took more time/attempts/games/whatever to reach the same numbers as Marino. People debate over who had the better career there, and it is similar here, although RSIII's bball career is nowhere near analogous to the type of careers that Marino/Favre had in football, obviously.

 

[NCAAGophers]

Sick, sad, individuals. One of the top centers to ever wear a Gopher uniform and a class act, and you guys try to trash him with fictional stats and half truths. Can't argue with his career stats. Nothing that you can do to change that.

You continually contradict yourself. You said that Berggren numbers are almost identical to Ralph's this year but you prefer Berggren. Now, he is unquestionably better. Please.

I don't care what they are doing now. Most are playing more minutes and ONE YEAR DOES NOT MAKE A CAREER. If it did, Jordan Taylor would be big ten POY and he's not. You have no idea what these guys are going to do in the future. ZERO idea

if RSIII had the same efficiency for each of his first 3 years playing as Whitey, along with the lowest of each of those 3 totals as a 4th year, he would be walking out of the U with 1,258 points; 1,042 rebounds; and 403 blocks.

That is what I mean by BS extrapolating. Withey averaged 1.3pts, 1.4 reb in 3 min as a FR and 2.4 pts and 1.7 rebs as a SO in 6.2 min, so obviously his per minute numbers are skewed, and it is no way an accurate reflection to simply multiply. You said that you were writing instead of studying. I hope that it's not a math or stats class. I suggest you stop making up stats and study.

You guys are trying to massage data to benefit a guy who didn't play for the Gophers. Don't tell me all the rest of the BS. Coulda, shoulda, woulda.

Over 1,200 pts, 600 rebs, 200 blocks, only Zeller is in that club. No massaging. No cherry picking. Would any of these guys join that club? NO. end of argument.

 

[BMEnGopher]

Sick, sad, individuals. One of the top centers to ever wear a Gopher uniform and a class act, and you guys try to trash him with fictional stats and half truths. Can't argue with his career stats. Nothing that you can do to change that.

I don't care what they are doing now. Most are playing more minutes and ONE YEAR DOES NOT MAKE A CAREER. If it did, Jordan Taylor would be big ten POY and he's not. You have no idea what these guys are going to do in the future. ZERO idea


That is what I mean by BS extrapolating. Withey averaged 1.3pts, 1.4 reb in 3 min as a FR and 2.4 pts and 1.7 rebs as a SO in 6.2 min, so obviously s his per minute numbers are skewed, and it is no way an accurate reflection to simply multiply. You said that you were writing instead of studying. I hope that it's not a math or stats class. I suggest you stop making up stats and study.

You guys are trying to massage data to benefit a guy who didn't play for the Gophers. Don't tell me all the rest of the BS. Coulda, shoulda, woulda.

Over 1,200 pts, 600 rebs, 200 blocks, only Zeller is in that club. No massaging. No cherry picking. Would any of these guys join that club? NO. end of argument.

I haven't seen anyone argue that his raw stats aren't good over his full career, however, I, along with others, merely are pointing out that it is, in part, a product of playing a lot more minutes than the other centers. And it wasn't that he beat out someone for the minutes, he just never had much competition. I respect RSIII for staying around all 4 years, and from the couple nights I've crossed paths with him I've gotten the impression that he's a really nice guy (laid back, if you can believe it ). It's not a personal shot at him at all.

"Would any of these guys join that club? NO. end of argument." Hasn't your entire argument been that we don't know how others can perform in other situations? If so, how can you say with definitiveness that no one would have reached that level with minutes like what RSIII got? I never said that Whitney would have had those numbers in RSIII's situation, it's just fun with numbers to add to the conversation, since we obviously don't know how anyone would have adapted to different situations. I would agree that the the small numbers skew the average, although mainly only the 3 minute freshmen year, 6 minutes is enough to get a sense of how he adapted to the games, even if not a perfect measurement. The point is when it comes to the best players from the class, you cannot compare solely the total stats when some had to back up NBA players for a year or two while RSIII stepped in and got minutes immediately. You are claiming he was the 2nd best player in the class. I just don't think that's true, others did more with the opportunities they were given than RSIII did with his.

And my tests are in Biomedical Systems Analysis and Biomedical Transport Processes, thank you.

 

[NCAAGophers]

'You are claiming he was the 2nd best player in the class. I just don't think that's true, others did more with the opportunities they were given than RSIII did with his."

I am not claiming anything. These are his actual numbers since 2008 and no one has presented me with anyone else other than Zeller who has better career numbers. Others did not do more, if they did, you could give me examples.

We had good teams when Ralph was a FR, SO, and JR year before the injuries and transfers. They were guys including Joseph and Cobbs that went to other conferences and did well. They were plenty of good players on those teams. We beat most of the teams that you guys are discussing with the exception of Kansas who we didn't play. We even beat UNC. Don't trot out this year numbers from guys that are playing in lesser conferences like the MVC, Pac 10, A-10 or Big South and try to pretend that it is an apples to apples comparison. Ralph's numbers this year are far more impressive than someone who put up slightly better numbers at a mid major school or in a conference that is devoid of post talent, e.g. the Pac 10.

I think that it is garbage that people heap so much unnecessary criticism on Ralph, and then try to hide behind lies, half truths and bogus stats. I posted earlier that Ralph missed all or part of 6 games due to an ankle injury and that hurt his numbers. No response. Why? Because some of you are allergic to he truth and want to spew negative, biased BS all day.

I posted that it would have helped if he played with a above avg PG. Anyone who knows anything about basketball understands that a post player depends on PG play. People want to ignore that and pretend that it is an opinion. Fine.

You what isn't my opinion? RSIII has had a superior career to all of the guys you keep bringing up and has better numbers. You can't even make the championship argument because none of them have won anything. You just want to throw away his total career stats and use one off analyses to psh your point. Everyone knows that a large sample size is more accurate, and the largest in this case is the last four years.

Well, that's the good thing about stats. They are what they are and there is nothing that you can do about it. When you are all dead and gone, his name will still be in the record books. Sucks to be you.

I would rather have a player who is solid for all four years than a guy that gives me nothing for three years.

FACTS ARE FACTS. According to the stats Ralph has had the second best college career of any of HS center in the class of 2008.

 

[zambam]

NCAAGophers, you put way too much stock into career numbers. That is an archaic way to look at it. If one person plays 40 minutes a game and another plays 20 minutes a game and they both average 15 ppg, which player would you rather have? Yes Ralph was a solid player during his career and put up some nice numbers. But the argument is would a more efficient player, as some of the players you are comparing Ralph to have been shown to be, have had even better numbers with Ralph's minutes? Seriously if you only use career numbers to analyze this you are missing BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG part of the picture.