Rivals Class of 2008 Centers:Ralph Sampson III rated #12, #2 statistically=outperform

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Rivals 2008 C Class Rankings

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/rankings/rank-1623

I decided to post this in response to the numerous negative and inaccurate articles and statements that I have seen leading up to senior day today (classless in my opinion especially from "journalists" including Chip Scoggins, Amelia Rayno, and Marcus Fuller) There is a huge misconception that Ralph Sampson III, despite the fact that his statistics place him among the top 3 centers in Gophers' history, is a "bust." No one who knows the first thing about college basketball or has watched college basketball over the last four years could argue that he has not been one of the top 3 centers from his recruiting class, and, to most observers, clearly #2 in terms of performance.

Let's take a look at top 20 centers from the Class of 2008:

#1 B.J. Mullens, 5 stars, Ohio St.

#2 Ty Walker, 5 stars, Wake Forest

#3Tony Woods, 5 stars, Wake Forest

#4 J'Mison Morgan, 5 stars, UCLA

#5 Kenny Kadji, 4 stars, Florida

#6 Michael Dunigan, 4 stars, Oregon

#7 Tyler Zeller, 4 stars, North Carolina

#8 Jeff Withey, 4 stars, list

#9 Kenny Frease, 4 stars, Xavier

#10 Henry Sims, 4 stars, Georgetown

#11 Greg Echenique, 4 stars, Rutgers

#12 Ralph Sampson III, 4 stars, Minnesota

#13 John Riek, 4 stars, Mississippi St.

#14 Philip Jurick, 4 stars, Tennessee

#15 Jared Berggren, 4 stars, Wisconsin

#16John Brandenburg, 4 stars, Virginia

#17 Jason Washburn, 4 stars, Utah

#18 Catalin Baciu, 3 stars, Clemson

#19 Brett Thompson, 3 stars, Saint Louis

#20 Andy Poling, 3 stars, Gonzaga

Which center other than Zeller, who has played with far superior surrounding talent, has outperformed Sampson? Imagine the numbers Sampson would have put up in an offense like UNC runs and with a pro caliber point guard-instead of the below average point guards that he's played alongside. Ralph Sampson III has represented this university tremendously both on and off the court, and I hope that we Gophers fan give him the type of send off that he deserves.

L
 

You would think a professional writer would at least look at stuff like this. Well done. If Sampson wasn't the son of Ralph II, he wouldn't get nearly the scrutiny he gets. I'm not saying he doesn't frustrate the crap out of me sometimes. But overall, he's been a solid player for us.
 

GophersInIowa said:
You would think a professional writer would at least look at stuff like this. Well done. If Sampson wasn't the son of Ralph II, he wouldn't get nearly the scrutiny he gets. I'm not saying he doesn't frustrate the crap out of me sometimes. But overall, he's been a solid player for us.
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+1
 

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

And a big thanks to RS3 for sticking it out all four years.
 

He did try his best and probably played his best as a freshman. Sorry but I just thought he would be better...and not because of his dad.
 


Today he displayed flashed of what he could have done for the offense. . He moved the ball by passing it back out more quickly than I have ever seen him. He was decisive. The result was that we had some real good possessions against the zone.
 

Are you serious? I say Ralph is probably #5 or worst. I take 4-5 Centers on that list before Ralph
 

Gopher10 said:
Are you serious? I say Ralph is probably #5 or worst. I take 4-5 Centers on that list before Ralph
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Please name the 4 or 5 centers on this list that you would take before Ralph Sampson III and show everyone your ignorance. I already stated that "no one who knows the first thing about college basketball or has watched college basketball over the last four years could argue that he has not been one of the top 3 centers from his recruiting class, and, to most observers, clearly #2 in terms of performance." Clearly you fall into the misinformed category as did the journalists who wrote negative pieces this week. You want to dispute what I said? Show me the FACTS. Even if you could find 4 or 5 centers that have outperformed Ralph, which you can't, he was originally ranked 12th so that would make him 5th or 6th which means he still outperformed his initial ranking. Glad to know that you agree with me. Thanks for the laugh and have a nice day.
 

Excellent original post. Please post more. Also, send the info to the Gopher basketball beat writers so they get an idea of how a little research can inform.
 




I don't hate Ralph like some people do, but I think a ton of the negativity comes from his style of play. When he is bad, he looks like he doesn't care. I don't think that is at all accurate, but it's just the way his game looks at times. I also do think he is considerably underrated by the people that blast the kid.

However, I do think there are 4-5 guys who I would rather have than Ralph.

#1: Obviously Zeller
#2: BJ Mullens - He didn't do much in college, but it's because he left right away. This guy is playing pretty well in the NBA and is a pretty high level talent. He is averaging 9.2 points and 4.2 rebs / game in the NBA. I'm not ripping on Ralph, but I don't think that is in his future (hope i'm wrong).
#3: Jared Berggren is outplaying Ralph this season. I realize that Ralph did more in his early seasons that Jared, but when it's all said and done, Jared has been a bit better this season and he has another year of eligibility left. He is averaging more points (more efficiently), more rebounds, and more blocks than Ralph.
#4: Kenny Frease has had a similar career to Ralph. You could easily make an argument that Ralph or Frease were better than one another, it's up to interpretation. But they are similar players now.

Lastly, I don't think this is really the best way to look at Ralph's career. I like Ralph and I really don't think that he deserves as much criticism as he receives. That said, his career is not better or worse because some players who happened to be in his class were atrocious. Would Ralph's accomplishments been lessened if Tony Woods would have turned out to be a dominating ACC force? Of course not. They really have nothing to do with eachother.
 

^^^ Thank You. You beat me to it. I may even take Jeff Withey over Ralph.
 

Gopher10 said:
^^^ Thank You. You beat me to it. I may even take Jeff Withey over Ralph.
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Yep, missed Withey, i'd prefer Withey to Ralph. He is another guy who didn't do a ton early in his career, but I believe he is significantly better than Ralph right now.
 



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Bob_Loblaw said:
Yep, missed Withey, i'd prefer Withey to Ralph. He is another guy who didn't do a ton early in his career, but I believe he is significantly better than Ralph right now.
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Jeff Withey? Do you realize that before this season he averaged less than 2 ppg? Did you even look this up before you decided to post?

This is the type of misinformed garbage that prompted me to post in the first place. With the exception of Zeller, over the course of their college careers Ralph has outplayed all of the guys that you mentioned, and it's not even close. Let's look at Ralph Sampson III's career numbers versus Jeff Withey's:

RSIII career numbers: 8.1 ppg, 1.5 apg, 5.0 rpg, 1.6 bpg, 0.4 spg

Jeff Withey career numbers: 5.1 ppg, 0.4apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.7 bpg, 0.6 spg

RSIII wins in landside and that's not even taking into account that Withey plays next to arguably the best PF in the country, Thomas Robinson, and the Big 12 is not as physical as the Big Ten. Also, if we had recruited Withey instead of Ralph there is no way that we would have made back to back appearances in the NCAA tournament during RSIII's freshman and sophomore years due to Withey's averaging 1.0 ppg and 2.0 ppg in the previous two seasons. Withey's highest scoring average before this season's 9.0 ppg was 2.3 ppg last year. Please.

RSIII vs Jared Berggren (let's just toss out the fact that they just played last week and that Ralph thoroughly outplayed him, even more so than the numbers suggest but since I believe in presenting FACTS)

Last game: RSIII: 30 min, 8pts, 7rebs, 5blks
Berggren: 37 min, 5pts, 7rebs, 1ast

Clearly, Ralph had a better game and a more impressive stat line. If you watched the game, the difference between them is even greater than the stat line suggests but from the nature of Bob Law's and Gopher10's post, I doubt that either you have ever watched a basketball game. Based on the inaccurate BS that is sometimes written about Sampson in the local press, I can see why you were misinformed and might rather have some of the lesser talented centers that you seem to prefer. Either that or you don't understand what you are watching or basic math, e.g., 8>5 etc. I am trying to be kind, really I am, but it drives me crazy when people try to pass off their own personal bias as fact. That is partially what upset me about the articles. Let's look at Sampson's career stats versus Berggren's:

RSIII career numbers: 8.1 ppg, 1.5 apg, 5.0 rpg, 1.6 bpg, 0.4 spg
Berggren career numbers: 5.2 ppg, 0.4 apg, 2.4 rpg, 0.8 bpg, 0.4 spg

What a joke?!! I knew that the numbers weren't close but this made me laugh. Plus, similarly to Zeller, Berg plays with a pro caliber PG which is a huge bonus for a college post player. And he's a Badger-you must be a Badger fan. Just say you like him better, but the numbers don't support your opinion.

Finally, I would rather have four years of Ralph than one year of BJ Mullens, it's not like Mullens put up great numbers or that he won a ring for OSU. His statistics during his one year at OSU are very similar to Sampson, 8.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.1 bpg (actually Ralph's are better) I think that the majority of college coaches would rather have four years of solid production. Sure, Mullens is averaging 9.2 points a game this season. You can't count this as a full NBA season. It's not even over; it's only slightly over two months old. Before this season Mullens was averaging 2.4 pts and 2 rebs a game.

Finally, the fact is that over his college career Ralph overperformed his ranking coming out of high school. He was ranked #12 and clearly outperformed his ranking. That is not an opinion, it is based on facts. None of the guys that you mentioned with the exception of Zeller, have come close to posting over 1,000 pts, 600 rebs, and 200 blocks in their careers.
 

I am trying to be kind, really I am
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Really, you are? At what point in your condescending, vitriolic response were you trying to be kind? I enjoy Gopher Hole a great deal when civil conversation occurs between Gopher fans, which Bob Loblaw engaged in-since he didn't bend to your will, you respond with accusations that he:
* can't do basic math
* doesn't understand what he watches
* he's a Badger fan
* that he's ever watched a basketball game

Hardly seems nice to me at all.

I agree with the sentiment that RSIII should be commended for sticking through four trying years during his Gopher career, particularly when several teammates defected from the team during that time span. Coupled with the fact that RSIII was seemingly a very good citizen during his time as a Gopher and RSIII should be recognized as representing the U of M program very well while he was here.

But let's not try to turn RSIII into something he is not. Yes, the fact is that his career numbers trail only Zeller's on the above list; if we go to the numbers, we'll also see that during RSIII's senior year he declined across the board in all major statistical categories (save for a very slight uptick in assists). Yes, he suffered without having Trevor M. playing next to him or consistent point guard play, but nonetheless, he did not elevate his game when this young team needed him the most.

You claim that anyone that disagrees on your assessment of Ralph must not watch games, but I actually wonder if you watched any games this year, because what I saw was a player lacking confidence and poise when I was able to tune into Gopher games. I saw him pushed off the block, hoisting fade away jump shots over smaller defenders in the Purdue game; I saw one of the worst halves of college basketball by a player when the Gophers played at Michigan State. I read comments from his head coach saying that he needed more leadership and rebounding from RSIII and Rodney Williams. The statistics tell me that he played the fewest minutes per game in his career since his freshman year, despite the fact that the Gophers were coping with injuries (Mbawke and Mo Walker) and defection (Iverson) along the front line.

I also find the logic of your statistical argument lacking (you might want to google the famous Mark Twain line). RSIII was able to compile these career numbers because he's been playing for four years-credit goes to him for earning minutes as a freshman and sophomore, but he also didn't have the type of talent in front of him that Withey and Berrgren had either. NBA talent, particularly in Withey's case, was blocking the pathway for them to earn minutes early in their career. You keep trotting out career stats, but you shy away from stats for this season. You give us Berggren's stats against the Gophers, but don't share the stats the game previous when he had 18 points in a big win against Ohio State. Plus, you don't even acknowledge that both of these players are juniors in eligibility due to being redshirted, so you're comparing career statistics for a player who played four years for mediocre teams versus players who have played for three years on perennial tourney teams. And to save your immature response, no I am not a Badger fan, I'm a Gopher fan through and through.

Finally, the numbers that RSIII have compiled lend itself to a few things, one of which I already mentioned (immediate playing time as a freshman due in large part to few other options), but due to the expanded number of games played in this era versus previous eras of Gopher basketball. When you mention that he's in the top 3 statistically all-time of Gopher centers, I certainly hope you're not trying to advance the notion that he actually is a top three Golden Gopher center.

I tried to be kind-really I did.
 

I see your all about Stats. And you did mention that those other players play with better PG and PF. Wouldn't that also hinder their stat so their number won't look so much better, then let's say Ralph Sampson. Ralph should be dominating the stat line then if he didn't have any good players on his team. You mentioned about Thomas Robinson, Even with Trevor Mbwake last year, Ralph didn't do much damaged, and even after he got hurt this year, I didn't see his numbers jump that much higher. But obviously your all about stat and what he has done his 4 years here, which is great of him to stick here for 4 years. In my opinion he should be at least be mention as All-Conferences by his Senior year, instead he's getting outplay by underclassman. I rather take BJ Mullen for 1 year and use his scholarship for a another big guy like let's say Jared Sullinger, then take Ralph for 4 years.
 

@Gopher 10, @coolhandgopher. Where are the numbers to support your argument? I am fine with having a logical debate, but I took time to research this before I posted, and no amount of personal attacks on me or your rambling on about Sampson is going to change the facts. You both should get jobs at the Pioneer Pres or Star Tribune since you just want to share unsubstantiated opinions and tell half the story. This is exactly the type of ignorant, misinformed jibberish that I tried to dispel. One year does not make a career. We were discussing the overall impact that a player has had on a program. None of the centers on the list except for Zeller and Sampson have amassed over 1,000 pts, 600 rebs, and 200 blocks. PERIOD. Sullinger wasn't a member of the Class of 2008. What I said and what is absolutely true is that Sampson has had at least the second best college career of any center from the HS Class of 2008. Withey had two full seasons below 2.5 ppg. What NBA talent outside of Leuer was in front of Bergrenn? What NBA center was in front of Withey? (don't say Aldrich, he was already gone, and he could have played alongside the Morris twins-they were F's). I presented you with numbers and facts. You presented me with bias and misguided hatred towards one of our players.

@Gopher10-I never said that Ralph didn't play with good players. We have good players. We don't have an NBA caliber point guard which is essential for a big man to produce at an elite level. Ralph put up good numbers despite not having even an above average distributor.

Finally, If you have watched every game, you obviously remember that Sampson injured his ankle before the tournament in Orlando and due to this injury missed several games and played reduced minutes in others. In fact, last week Tubby stated that Ralph's ankle is still bothering him, and he has been missing practices as recently as right before the last MSU game so that's why his minutes and stats are down. But since you follow the Gophers so closely, you already know that. I just don't get why you feel the need to attack Sampson when he has been a bright spot on and off the court for the Gophers. Everyone is disappointed that injuries and transfers hurt the team's performance, but I, for one, am glad that Ralph stuck it out and achieved what he did. Some of you won't realize the impact that Ralph has had until after he's gone and seem to have forgotten the back to back tournament teams that he played on. He got immediate playing time and we IMMEDIATELY went from not making the tournament to being there twice in a row.

Like I said, no center from the Class of 2008 other than Zeller has been as productive over the four years since graduating from HS in 2008. Sorry that it pains you to hear that. Actually, I'm not.
 

I agree that Ralph Sampson, "Statistically" is the 2nd best center of that class. "Statistically". But I still take 4-5 Centers on that list over him.
 

I also find the logic of your statistical argument lacking (you might want to google the famous Mark Twain line). RSIII was able to compile these career numbers because he's been playing for four years
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I didn't compare Sampson's total career stats with Bergrenn's and Withey's, just the averages. The argument that they are more impactful given their totals is even more ridiculous so i already accounted for their lack of playing time by comparing averages. Though I think it is relevant to this discussion that they didn't see the floor much during their first two years, and I don't see any NBA starters that were taking minutes away from them. Google how averages are calculated and hopefully, that will clear up the comparison for you.
 

* Please point out where I personally attacked you. From my vantage point, you're the one resorting to personal jabs when someone doesn't align with your line of thinking.
* I recognized that Sampson's numbers are only surpassed by Zeller on the above list. I also believe stats only tell part of the story.
* You purport to deal only in facts and rely heavily on statistics. However, when the statistics don't match your argument, you ignored them and then when they were presented with stats that didn't match your argument, you resorted to opinion (Sampson's stats went down because of his ankle; is that fact? proven how?)
* You also advance this flawed correlation that once RSIII joined the Gophers, they went to two straight tournaments. True, but not the entire story. Colton Iverson, Paul Carter, and Devoe Joseph were also additions to those teams, along with holdovers Damien Johnson, Al Nolen, Lawrence Westbrook, and Blake Hoffarber. RSIII was a contributor, but he did not put the team on his back and lead them to the tournament.
* In addition to the Morris twins, Thomas Robinson was also ahead of Withey on the depth charts; no doubt all three of those players are more talented than Withey, as they all are more talented than RSIII. I didn't clarify enough, but when I mentioned NBA talent, I was speaking primarily about Kansas; Wisconsin is a system team that might not produce NBA bigs, but does produce veteran bigs who stick around for four years-besides Leuer, the likes of Keaton Nankivil, Marcus Landry, Joe Krabbenhoft were with the Badgers since Berrgren's been on campus.

It's fine to have maroon-colored glasses towards RSIII, but you're trying to have it both ways-you're all about the facts when looking at career numbers against his fellow '08 prep centers, but when the numbers don't agree with you, excuses come into play. I'm not hating on RSIII, I'm merely stating my opinion-the promise of his freshman and sophomore seasons, when I saw a skilled big man with solid fundamentals who I projected to be a All Big Ten first or second team player by his senior year was not realized. Some of that was not of his own design (again, the acknowledged transfers, injuries, and lack of a steady point guard), but ultimately during his junior and senior seasons as a Gopher the program regressed and he regressed this season. It's been a very disappointing couple years. I am also glad that RSIII stuck it out; I think the character he's exhibited in the face of these tumultuous years will serve him well in his future and as stated by me already, he's been a fine representative of the program. I can separate that from what occurred on the court however and I will look back at his Gopher career like I do Dan Coleman's-that a lot of potential went unrealized, no matter what the numbers may say.
 

Gopher10 said:
I see your all about Stats. And you did mention that those other players play with better PG and PF. Wouldn't that also hinder their stat so their number won't look so much better, then let's say Ralph Sampson. Ralph should be dominating the stat line then if he didn't have any good players on his team. You mentioned about Thomas Robinson, Even with Trevor Mbwake last year, Ralph didn't do much damaged, and even after he got hurt this year, I didn't see his numbers jump that much higher. But obviously your all about stat and what he has done his 4 years here, which is great of him to stick here for 4 years. In my opinion he should be at least be mention as All-Conferences by his Senior year, instead he's getting outplay by underclassman. I rather take BJ Mullen for 1 year and use his scholarship for a another big guy like let's say Jared Sullinger, then take Ralph for 4 years.
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That comment doesn't even makes sense. The Gophers would never have a chance of getting Sullinger.

There's a few things to consider. Many of the other guys mentioned were redshirted. Sampson was not.

Also, it just depends how you look at it or what you value more. Do you value a guy more who is pretty solid for four years or a guy who doesn't really contribute for two years, but ends up being better for their last two years? In a perfect world where your classes are always balanced, you don't have players leave or get hurt, and players develop like they are supposed to, I think most people would prefer the latter. But that certainly wasn't the case when Sampson was recruited. We needed a guy that could come in and contribute a lot right away. Sampson was able to do that. Would Berggren have been able to do that? Withey? Maybe, maybe not.

Either way, right now Sampson's freshman and sophomore seasons were better than Berggren's. And just comparing their junior seasons, they are about the same. Of course Berggren has one more season and will probably end up having a better season than Sampson's senior season, but unless he blows up and has an incredible season, I don't see how anyone can say his career was better than Sampson's based on one season.
 

I like Ralph. He has been a good student athlete here and a model citizen. But, look at these stats. They are mediocre at best as he was as a player here. To look at those kids labeled as "centers" is misleading. Most teams don't have true centers as much as "big men". Ralph averaged 8 pts a game for his career. 5 rebs a game (some guards average that).
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/minnesota/ralph-sampson-iii
Ralph was an ok player here and a true gentleman. I am glad he played here, but let's not make something of him that he wasn't. He never made all big ten so he wasn't a top 2 or 3 player in the country ever.
 

Sampson's stats went down because of his ankle; is that fact? proven how?)
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Seriously? Did you not watch any of the Orlando tournament when he was clearly hobbled and played less 12 min/avg a game? How about the VT and USC games when he had to sit out due to his ankle? That's not enough proof for you, huh? You didn't hear the numerous interviews, read the articles and statements discussing Ralph's ankle injury from earlier this year.

This was never an opinion piece. Look at the title of the thread. All I stated was that Ralph outperformed every center in the class of 2008 other than Zeller. A few people suggested other centers had better numbers, but they did not have better career averages than Sampson. All of the rest of this argument is your opinion which you are entitled to no matter how ill-informed it is. I didn't switch any statistics or massage the numbers. The facts are the facts. This wasn't a thread about how I feel about Ralph Sampson's career. I started this thread because I was upset with the baseless, classless articles that were written by some "journalists" including Chip Scoggins and Marcus Fuller leading up to his senior day which I thought were out of line. He is far from a "bust", and I personally think that he has put up good numbers despite the turmoil surrounding the team. It's crazy how people dismiss facts, like for example, not playing with a good PG due to injury, transfer etc to try to heap blame unto the kid. A post player is reliant on someone to feed him the ball and in the right situation. Look at the impact Lin is having on the Knicks.

Point is this: The Gophers were lucky to have Ralph Sampson III. If Tubby would have signed any of the other centers from the class of 2008, they would not have matched his performance and consistency over four years with the exception of Zeller. Long after you and I are gone, your and other opinions of what he shouldve done or didnt do wont matter. His numbers are solid and place him as a valued contributor, will be remembered as a class act, and no one can take that away from him.
 

minngg said:
I like Ralph. He has been a good student athlete here and a model citizen. But, look at these stats. They are mediocre at best as he was as a player here. To look at those kids labeled as "centers" is misleading. Most teams don't have true centers as much as "big men". Ralph averaged 8 pts a game for his career. 5 rebs a game (some guards average that).
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/minnesota/ralph-sampson-iii
Ralph was an ok player here and a true gentleman. I am glad he played here, but let's not make something of him that he wasn't. He never made all big ten so he wasn't a top 2 or 3 player in the country ever.
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Mostly agree, except that I would say that he was a solid-good player as opposed to an ok one. Before this year I would have said good, but this year toned it down closer to solid. Semantics.
 

NCAAGophers said:
l

Jeff Withey? Do you realize that before this season he averaged less than 2 ppg? Did you even look this up before you decided to post?

This is the type of misinformed garbage that prompted me to post in the first place. With the exception of Zeller, over the course of their college careers Ralph has outplayed all of the guys that you mentioned, and it's not even close. Let's look at Ralph Sampson III's career numbers versus Jeff Withey's:

RSIII career numbers: 8.1 ppg, 1.5 apg, 5.0 rpg, 1.6 bpg, 0.4 spg

Jeff Withey career numbers: 5.1 ppg, 0.4apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.7 bpg, 0.6 spg

RSIII wins in landside and that's not even taking into account that Withey plays next to arguably the best PF in the country, Thomas Robinson, and the Big 12 is not as physical as the Big Ten. Also, if we had recruited Withey instead of Ralph there is no way that we would have made back to back appearances in the NCAA tournament during RSIII's freshman and sophomore years due to Withey's averaging 1.0 ppg and 2.0 ppg in the previous two seasons. Withey's highest scoring average before this season's 9.0 ppg was 2.3 ppg last year. Please.

RSIII vs Jared Berggren (let's just toss out the fact that they just played last week and that Ralph thoroughly outplayed him, even more so than the numbers suggest but since I believe in presenting FACTS)

Last game: RSIII: 30 min, 8pts, 7rebs, 5blks
Berggren: 37 min, 5pts, 7rebs, 1ast

Clearly, Ralph had a better game and a more impressive stat line. If you watched the game, the difference between them is even greater than the stat line suggests but from the nature of Bob Law's and Gopher10's post, I doubt that either you have ever watched a basketball game. Based on the inaccurate BS that is sometimes written about Sampson in the local press, I can see why you were misinformed and might rather have some of the lesser talented centers that you seem to prefer. Either that or you don't understand what you are watching or basic math, e.g., 8>5 etc. I am trying to be kind, really I am, but it drives me crazy when people try to pass off their own personal bias as fact. That is partially what upset me about the articles. Let's look at Sampson's career stats versus Berggren's:

RSIII career numbers: 8.1 ppg, 1.5 apg, 5.0 rpg, 1.6 bpg, 0.4 spg
Berggren career numbers: 5.2 ppg, 0.4 apg, 2.4 rpg, 0.8 bpg, 0.4 spg

What a joke?!! I knew that the numbers weren't close but this made me laugh. Plus, similarly to Zeller, Berg plays with a pro caliber PG which is a huge bonus for a college post player. And he's a Badger-you must be a Badger fan. Just say you like him better, but the numbers don't support your opinion.

Finally, I would rather have four years of Ralph than one year of BJ Mullens, it's not like Mullens put up great numbers or that he won a ring for OSU. His statistics during his one year at OSU are very similar to Sampson, 8.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.1 bpg (actually Ralph's are better) I think that the majority of college coaches would rather have four years of solid production. Sure, Mullens is averaging 9.2 points a game this season. You can't count this as a full NBA season. It's not even over; it's only slightly over two months old. Before this season Mullens was averaging 2.4 pts and 2 rebs a game.

Finally, the fact is that over his college career Ralph overperformed his ranking coming out of high school. He was ranked #12 and clearly outperformed his ranking. That is not an opinion, it is based on facts. None of the guys that you mentioned with the exception of Zeller, have come close to posting over 1,000 pts, 600 rebs, and 200 blocks in their careers.
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Wow....you really handle people disagreeing with you really well. I am sure this discussion will send you into an outright conniption fit, but lets try to talk about this like adults.

First, I agree with you that if you add up the career stats of Ralph they are are larger than some of the guys, but we both know that you realize there is more to judging a player. I noticed your cherry picked every possible stat to support your conclusion but both of us could do that and i'll be doing some of that to "prove" my point as well.

As for Jeff Withey, yep, he rode the pine for two years on some good Kansas teams. I don't think Ralph Sampson carves out a lot of time with the Morris twins at Kansas, but that can never really be proven. So this is why I would prefer Withey on my team to Ralph Sampson.

This season:
9.2 points - 6.2 rebs - 3.2 blks (55% shooting) - - 1.67 PPS ----Withey
7.9 pts - 4.6 rebs - 1.3 blks (47% shooting) - - 1.17 PPS - RS3

- So this season, Withey has been a much better scorer (more points on less shots), a much better rebounder, and blocked over twice as many shots as Ralph. Withey has been better this season than any season of RS3's career, and it's really not that close. Anyone in their right mind would prefer Withey this season to Ralph. He might be slowed by an injury, and he probably is, but Withey has been better this season than any season in Ralph's career. You can prefer the career stats, I'd rather have the best player.

Now, lets go to Berggren. I admitted that it is debatable. It's the same old thing though, would you prefer a guy who played a lot all the way through so was a better FR and SO, or would you prefer the player who turns out to be the better of the two players? I would rather the guy who turns out to be the best basketball player of the group.

Since you love the small sample size, lets look at how Ralph and Berggren did against each other both games this season.

Ralph:
6.0 pts - 7.0 rebs - 2.5 blks - 0 assists - 3.0 TOs : (27% shooting)
Berggren:
7.0 pts - 5.5 rebs - 1.5 blks - .5 assists - 2.0 TOs: (30 % shooting)

Those are pretty similar stats. Right now, i'd rather have Berggren, it's close though (unlike Withey). Ralph was better as a FR than Berggren was. However, this isn't 2009. Berggren this season has been about exactly as good as Ralph was last year (his best year). So it's really close and it could either way. However, if Berggren even slightly improves next year, he will have a better season than any of Ralph's at any time in his career.

Again, it comes down to how you rank a player. If you think a player who averaged 7 pts a game for their entire career is better than a player who averaged 2 - 4 - 8 - 14, I guess that's your preference. I'll gladly take a player going through some early growing pains if it means he is a better player as a JR/SR.

As far as me being a Badger fan, nope. I'm a Gopher fan who just disagrees with you. I don't even dislike Ralph. I root for every Gopher and I will always be a RS3 fan. He came here, was a good citizen, graduated with Maroon and Gold and was a decent player.
 

NCAAGophers said:
Point is this: The Gophers were lucky to have Ralph Sampson III. If Tubby would have signed any of the other centers from the class of 2008, they would not have matched his performance and consistency over four years with the exception of Zeller. Long after you and I are gone, your and other opinions of what he shouldve done or didnt do wont matter. His numbers are solid and place him as a valued contributor, will be remembered as a class act, and no one can take that away from him.
Click to expand...

I agree with the portion in bold. That doesn't mean that I think it's wrong to respectfully compare him to other players.
 

Wouldn't a better comparison be points/minute especially in those early years? While Sampson has more points/blocks/rebounds etc. for a career, how much of that is due to having played more minutes? While you can say "those players weren't good enough to play their freshmen years," would RSIII been given the other players on that team? I commend Ralph for coming in and playing right away, but to say someone who averaged 8ppg in 24 minutes a game is indisputably better than someone who average 2 ppg in 6 minutes is ridiculous. Chances are many other players would have had better careers here than Ralph, but they had to wait their turn getting fewer minutes in the early years. In all likelihood RSIII would have done the same at Kansas/Wisconsin/UNC. Just because he had less competition doesn't mean he was better.

So, in other words: trying to compare players based solely off stats, without taking into account the situations they came into, is idiotic.
 

I'm starting to think NCAAGophers's real name is Ralph Sampson III...
 

ESPN Ralph Sampson jr. rating 89, 23rd best center in his highschool class
 


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