Ricky Stanzi or Adam Weber?

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bankonit said:
I agree a tiny bit, the tweak in the throwing motion could mess his aim up slightly and he may just barely miss receivers. But Adam Weber on many many occasions missed wide open receivers by miles like you said and that I don't believe can be blamed on throwing motion. Also Weber was not a better QB with Decker, Decker bailed him out by catching terrible passes and masking Adam's ineptness. Decker was a crutch long before he was on crutches because he was so good and had such good instincts and hands.
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It sounds like you've completely misinterpreted what I wrote. Please take another look at the post. Never said the motion change alone caused inaccuracy. I made the point that the motion change, combined with other issues, created a level of discomfort that hurt Weber's performance. That performance, especially in terms of inaccurate passing, suffered after Decker left the lineup. I agree with you that Decker often bailed out Weber. There is part of my point. Without him Weber felt even more uncomfortable on the field than before the injury. At any rate, it appears we agree that Weber is not a good passing QB.
 


jthiegs said:
Boo, Boblawblaw and Monk10. :) Forget objectivity--Ricky Stanzi is the starting QB for one of your (our) two arch-rivals. C'mon--even if you're not the biggest Adam Weber fan--I understand, even though I am an Adam Weber fan--at least cast a write-in vote for MarQueis Gray or Moses Alipate! -Joe

P.S. Even objectively, I'd take Weber over Stanzi. I think it's a travesty he's had to adapt to a new OC each year as a Gopher, and amazing how well he's done in light of that.
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As a coach I prefer knowns over unknowns. I know how Stanzi performs in an offense year after year after year. I have a feeling how Weber performs given his better results in the second year of an offense. However he just switched again and ... I think they just switched the offense again while I was writing this post ... (extra dots for humor). .. .
 

Basically I think that Weber's career has been as mismanaged at it could possibly have been. I feal sorry for him that a local recruit that had options out of high school chose the U and it has turned out so badly for him. I really think that had he not been screwed with so much between offenses and throwing motions and changing his game that people would have a far different opinion of him. He seems, from the 2 times I've met him, like a great kid. I hope he puts it together this year, but if not he will always be held in high regard with me. All that said, Stanzi has had a better career thusfar, no question.
 




Stanzi has a better players and better coaches around him, this seems to be obvious. However, Stanzi has been successful in an offense where the running game was dominant (Shonn Greene in 2008) and where the running game was lacking (Brandon Wegher and Adam Robinson 2009). In both scenarios he has found ways to make plays and lead the team to victory. His numbers will not astonish you and he does make mistakes but in the end his successes and confidence make him the clear choice over Adam Weber in my mind.
 

Sumtimegophs said:
God, you are such a putz. Please, please, please go take a hot bath and slit your wrists so the rest of us don't have to deal with your negativity and pessimism.
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Oh, Sorry. I said they are both horrible, but what I should have said is Adam Weber and Ricky Stanzi are both much better than Sam Bradford and Colt McCoy. In fact they Rival the Manning Brothers in terms of stellar Quarterback play.

Is that to your liking?
 



ruralgopher said:
Basically I think that Weber's career has been as mismanaged at it could possibly have been. I feal sorry for him that a local recruit that had options out of high school chose the U and it has turned out so badly for him. I really think that had he not been screwed with so much between offenses and throwing motions and changing his game that people would have a far different opinion of him. He seems, from the 2 times I've met him, like a great kid. I hope he puts it together this year, but if not he will always be held in high regard with me. All that said, Stanzi has had a better career thusfar, no question.
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Weber seems like a great person. And he's obviously a tough player physically. Not so sure if what he's been through qualifies as "screwed with" though. Stuff happens and things change. People don't live in ruts and have to flex with circumstances. Even if he has been mismanaged, the issue would be to what degree. Regardless, with the occasional flash of brilliance that a lot of okay college athletes show, he still looks like an inaccurate passer who lacks scope of vision and is almost always uncomfortable with the ball behind the line of scrimmage. We saw it at St. Johns during practice prior to his first season as starter and it doesn't appear to be much different, at least as of last season.

How about the notion that Weber is a great guy, a dedicated Gopher who deserves gratitude and respect from us fans, but must face the reality that he is not a consistently good performer as D1 QB.
 

Maybe they should have changed him to safety. Dale Hackbart with the vikings was a great safety and a QB at wisc. Bud Grant said he wasn't a QB but might be able to stay in pro football as a safety, guess Bud was right. Maybe Webber too??
 

Weber regressed the last two seasons due to lack of Eric Decker. End of debate on that. I'd take stanzi anyday
 

littlebigboy said:
Maybe they should have changed him to safety. Dale Hackbart with the vikings was a great safety and a QB at wisc. Bud Grant said he wasn't a QB but might be able to stay in pro football as a safety, guess Bud was right. Maybe Webber too??
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Weber playing safety would be comical.
 



Ski U Master said:
The O-line didn't do him any favors, but I think adjusting with his motion really screwed up Weber's accuracy.
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This one always amazes me- how the hell do you "adjust" someone's throwing motion. The best you can do is give the kid pointers on how you would like him to throw. It isn't like they put a robotic mechanism in his arm to force him to throw a certain way. If something wasn't working, he would have just gone back to throwing the way he did when he had some success.
 

Handsome Pete said:
This one always amazes me- how the hell do you "adjust" someone's throwing motion. The best you can do is give the kid pointers on how you would like him to throw. It isn't like they put a robotic mechanism in his arm to force him to throw a certain way. If something wasn't working, he would have just gone back to throwing the way he did when he had some success.
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+1,000,000,000,000
 



Has there ever been a less appreciated QB for a BCS school than Adam Weber? Considering that he holds the record for yards and is three tds away from that record with a season left to play; and that two of the most revered people to this board, Hohensee and Dungy, had far worse careers, it seems odd to me the disdain he recieves. His completion % is the best of any of the top 10 passers in Gophers history. The reactions he recieves on this board never fails to blow my mind.
 

ruralgopher said:
Has there ever been a less appreciated QB for a BCS school than Adam Weber? Considering that he holds the record for yards and is three tds away from that record with a season left to play; and that two of the most revered people to this board, Hohensee and Dungy, had far worse careers, it seems odd to me the disdain he recieves. His completion % is the best of any of the top 10 passers in Gophers history. The reactions he recieves on this board never fails to blow my mind.
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What was his completion percentage last year? How did last year rank on the single season record list for tds, ints, turnovers, passer rating etc? He had a very poor year. He would admit it himself. His accuracy is below average, and so is his pocket presence. Hopefully he has a great senior year.
 

Section2 said:
What was his completion percentage last year? How did last year rank on the single season record list for tds, ints, turnovers, passer rating etc? He had a very poor year. He would admit it himself. His accuracy is below average, and so is his pocket presence. Hopefully he has a great senior year.
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His comp % last year was 57.5%, similar to his career, which again is the most accurate career % of anyone in the top 10. He threw too many picks, but also set a single season record with 24 tds and 2895 yards. His 2008 campaign where he was 2nd team all big ten (purely due to lack of competition in the eyes of many on this board) was in my opinion the second best year a gopher QB has ever had next to Cupito's 2006 season. I admit that I am not including the Stevens era and before because statistics are very difficult to find and compare across eras.
 

ruralgopher said:
Has there ever been a less appreciated QB for a BCS school than Adam Weber? Considering that he holds the record for yards and is three tds away from that record with a season left to play; and that two of the most revered people to this board, Hohensee and Dungy, had far worse careers, it seems odd to me the disdain he recieves. His completion % is the best of any of the top 10 passers in Gophers history. The reactions he recieves on this board never fails to blow my mind.
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You're way too wrapped up with numbers. Get out of the trees so you can see the whole forest.
 

maxwellsmart said:
You're way too wrapped up with numbers. Get out of the trees so you can see the whole forest.
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Oh. Well then, has he not been a leader on the team? Has he not been honest and humble with the media? Has he not accepted responsibilty? Has he not handled the open competition well? If we are getting away from the numbers I think he has behaved in a manner uncommon to most, certainly better than what is a reasonable expectation from a college junior under similar circumstances. He, by all accounts is a good young man, and a good football player. I think you may need to step away from the trees a bit.
 

ruralgopher said:
His comp % last year was 57.5%, similar to his career, which again is the most accurate career % of anyone in the top 10. He threw too many picks, but also set a single season record with 24 tds and 2895 yards. His 2008 campaign where he was 2nd team all big ten (purely due to lack of competition in the eyes of many on this board) was in my opinion the second best year a gopher QB has ever had next to Cupito's 2006 season. I admit that I am not including the Stevens era and before because statistics are very difficult to find and compare across eras.
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Wrong, that was his 2007 completion percentage, and then you rambled on about his 2008 stats. Don't quote my post if you don't want to answer my question. Here are his Two thousand and NINE stats
191 of 367 for 2582 yards. Completion % 52.0. 13 TDs vs 15 INTs, 38 sacks
That was good for 92nd in the country, and last in the Big 10. You can rattle on about career stats, but that's because we've primarily been a running team until Weber's freshman year, and we've never had a 4 year starter. Cupito was very average as well. Didn't get a sniff at the next level. He put up average stats despite being surrounded by NFL rbs, wrs, and oline. Sauter was a much better passer than Weber, and Foggie was the best QB in my lifetime. I don't agree with one thing you've said.
 

ruralgopher said:
I think he has behaved in a manner uncommon to most, certainly better than what is a reasonable expectation from a college junior under similar circumstances.
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What are these special circumstances for a 3 year starter that we should take into account? No one is arguing he's not a good kid. We all like him personally (well, almost all). But that doesn't factor into an argument about how good of a player he is. He was not a good QB last year period. He was tremendously below average.
 

Section2 said:
What are these special circumstances for a 3 year starter that we should take into account? No one is arguing he's not a good kid. We all like him personally (well, almost all). But that doesn't factor into an argument about how good of a player he is. He was not a good QB last year period. He was tremendously below average.
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I was asked to 'get away from the numbers', so I did. I simply don't think that he deserves the vitriol he recieves on this board. That was the point of my comment earlier.
 

Section2 said:
Wrong, that was his 2007 completion percentage, and then you rambled on about his 2008 stats. Don't quote my post if you don't want to answer my question. Here are his Two thousand and NINE stats
191 of 367 for 2582 yards. Completion % 52.0. 13 TDs vs 15 INTs, 38 sacks
That was good for 92nd in the country, and last in the Big 10. You can rattle on about career stats, but that's because we've primarily been a running team until Weber's freshman year, and we've never had a 4 year starter. Cupito was very average as well. Didn't get a sniff at the next level. He put up average stats despite being surrounded by NFL rbs, wrs, and oline. Sauter was a much better passer than Weber, and Foggie was the best QB in my lifetime. I don't agree with one thing you've said.
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I humbly apologize. I looked at the wrong year, however not on purpose or as an attempt to decieve. I assume you realize that Sauter's senior season he was a 53.8% passer and Foggie's senior season he was a 47.4% passer.
 

ruralgopher said:
I humbly apologize. I looked at the wrong year, however not on purpose or as an attempt to decieve. I assume you realize that Sauter's senior season he was a 53.8% passer and Foggie's senior season he was a 47.4% passer.
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53.8 is better than 52. And they were in different offenses. Pro set West Coast offense will have different QB stats than a run and gun, or spread QB, or an Option QB. Foggie was an option QB. Most of his pass attempts were medium or longer attempts and mostly on 3rd and long. Not surprising that he had a low %. Weber's freshman #s were in a spread offense with mostly 5 yd completions. I'm not a stats geek, but if you're going to use stats as a sole basis to your argument, make sure they are accurate. Again, you think Weber is better than Foggie?
 

Section2 said:
53.8 is better than 52. And they were in different offenses. Pro set West Coast offense will have different QB stats than a run and gun, or spread QB, or an Option QB. Foggie was an option QB. Most of his pass attempts were medium or longer attempts and mostly on 3rd and long. Not surprising that he had a low %. Weber's freshman #s were in a spread offense with mostly 5 yd completions. I'm not a stats geek, but if you're going to use stats as a sole basis to your argument, make sure they are accurate. Again, you think Weber is better than Foggie?
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When Foggie was a starter I thought the Gophs could beat the Vikes. I was too young to objectively view my favorite teams. All that I think is that he gets unneccesary abused on this board. I think it is more to due with the fact that everyone loves any teams back up QB than anything. I am by no means a stats geek, but I think he does everything else from a leadership standpoint you would ask of a QB well. I have said, and will continue to say, I don't care if Weber or Gray is the starter next year, I just think people have lost a little perspective when it comes to Weber.
 

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