NurumbiCongo
Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2010
- Messages
- 585
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 16
He really knows how to slam a NBA rising star.
Reusse's tweet about Trevor
- Thread starter Blizzard
- Start date
He really knows how to slam a NBA rising star.
zambam said:
That's all I am saying ... Basically. Maybe folks on here aren't in the crowd, but many media members want to give him the MVP and say he is the best timberwolf ever (not hyperbole this time) and I just don't agree. Garnett was a much more talented player and he barely won an MVP. He's put up some great numbers, but would they be that high on a team with more talent? Absolutely not. But trade Love to LA (Lakers or Clips) and he isn't even the MVP of his team! How can he be the MVP of the entire NBA?
He also isn't so good he's leading a team of nobody's to some big wins, they'll end up in the lottery once again.
Can he get even better, for sure, but people who DO want to put him in the conversation with Durant, Dwight, Kobe, LBJ, etc. are just flat out wrong IMO. He isn't at that level and I'm glad Kahn didn't pay him like he was. And if you want to be the MVP and an "elite" player you have to be better than other MVP and elite players and I just don't think Love is there yet.
He's a very good player. With potential to be even better. Im just not ready to call him great and elite like some are when he can't create his own shot for one, but by the fact the team he plays for has never been out of the lottery with him. When Wade was drafted by Miami, they made the playoffs his rookie year, same with Melo. LBJ however didn't until year 3 when he made the finals. Love is in year 4 and back in the lottery. Unfortunately for him, he's had an inept GM or coach much of his career as well, but hopefully he continues to improve and can lead a team to the playoffs and further, but he obviously has not done that yet.
As far as the trade, like I said above, I am not sure if that "special" player is in this draft. But let's Harrison Barnes wins rookie of the year and
Makes the playoffs, year 2 he is an all star and makes the playoffs again, year 3 he is the MVP and makes the conference finals. I'd absolutely be wishing we'd traded Love for that guy if the Wolves are still lottery living and that is the exact career path of #1 pick Derrick Rose. I know hindsight is always 20/20, but if u have a GM who can see that "specialness" on draft day, that's not a bad deal by any stretch.
NurumbiCongo said:
Not trying to slam Love at all. I really like K. love as a player. He is a crucial part to any championship team. Slamming those who think he belongs in the conversation with LBJ, Kobe, etc. he doesn't. And yet some want to put him there.
First of all, you still don't understand what MVP means, do you?
Secondly, Love is most definitely on the same level as Dwight Howard. The Magic have plenty of talent and are only the 5 seed in the east. If the Wolves played in the East they'd be in the playoffs. Kevin Love is a top 10 player in the NBA right now, he just has a terrible supporting cast. FYI, not all top 10 players can will their team into the playoffs. If you had a team where 3/5 positions (when Pek is out) your team is guaranteed to have a disadvantage at, your team isn't going to win very often.
Secondly, Love is most definitely on the same level as Dwight Howard. The Magic have plenty of talent and are only the 5 seed in the east. If the Wolves played in the East they'd be in the playoffs. Kevin Love is a top 10 player in the NBA right now, he just has a terrible supporting cast. FYI, not all top 10 players can will their team into the playoffs. If you had a team where 3/5 positions (when Pek is out) your team is guaranteed to have a disadvantage at, your team isn't going to win very often.
zambam said:
Is there a definition of what MVP means? I haven't even found two voters who completely agree what it means. So if there is a formal definition out there, please provide it to myself and the world. If you truly think it is the player who provides the most value to his team no matter what, KG should have won the MVP every single year and Danny Granger should have one too. Al Jefferson should have won it and every other player who puts up gaudy numbers on a terrible team, because they are, technically, their teams most valuable player.
Dwight Howard made the finals with a supporting cast that includes Jameer Nelson and Hedo, not exactly the big 3. They are good, don't get me wrong, but if you swap Love for Dwight on that team, they barely make the playoffs if at all. Teams double Dwight in the post, sometimes triple team him, that's what opens up those shooters they have.
Dwight is the most physically dominant center since shaq (especially on defense) and please don't tell me Love is better than him too ...
The difference is you are equating MVP to best player in the league. The years that Lebron won MVP in Cleveland I would've taken Kobe over him in a heart beat, but I agree that Lebron was definitely the MVP that year.
So your argument is that if you swapped the 7'1" C Dwight Howard for the 6'10" PF Kevin Love the Magic would struggle? Wow what made you think that? You have to take MUCH more into consideration when you swap players from one team to another. You can only do that if they play the same position. Like, if you swap Blake Griffen and Kevin Love the Clippers would be a better team.
And either way the argument has been made by some that Dwight isn't even the best center in the NBA right now, and I think that's fair. Andrew Bynum's offensive skill set is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Dwight Howard's.
I added to my post just so you know. Either way I don't think you can just swap players from different positions and see how one team is effected. There is much more to consider than that.
PER -current PER: LBJ 30.68, Dwade 26.65, Durant 26.48, CP3 26.36, KLove 25.68, DRose 24.34, Dhoward 24.28, RWestbrook 23.69, Manu 23.45...is kevin love going to carry you to a championship as the 'main guy',no; but he is a great second option just as KG was. But KLOVE is without a doubt in the MVP conversation based on his numbers this year (top 4 finish)...it is a 2 man race like it or not LBJ and Durant.
I agree with Scher that there is no absolute definition of MVP. Some voters take it to mean "most valuable to their team", some interpret it as "most valuable to their contending team", some think it means "most statistically dominant over the course of season", some think it is "best player in the league". There is no definition. But keep in mind, since 1983 every player who has won the award has played for a team with at least 50 wins (except for Malone's MVP during the short season of 98-99).
tikited
Me
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 18,215
- Reaction score
- 5,481
- Points
- 113
LaBron and Durant are the best players in the game...Love is putting up better numbers. Kobe is still the third best in the game....Love is putting up better numbers. Wade, Howard, Rose, Westbrook, Paul, and Love are in that next group....Love is putting up better numbers. I haven't read one post stating Love is the greatest player in the game. Most are claiming, like me, that he has jumped into a great group of players. With the numbers he is putting up...he certainly deserves to be in the m.v.p. discussion. You just don't think he's as good as most, but the numbers man...the numbers!
Then don't read the thread.
dpodoll68
Elite Poster
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2008
- Messages
- 19,310
- Reaction score
- 931
- Points
- 113
The jealousy is downright dripping from this post.
If I was the Maimi GM and had a choice between Kobe and Lebronze for this years playoffs I would take Kobe no question.
Kobe and D-Wade would not fit well together IMO
46Gophers
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2010
- Messages
- 1,527
- Reaction score
- 705
- Points
- 113
Yeah that's it
46Gophers
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2010
- Messages
- 1,527
- Reaction score
- 705
- Points
- 113
Sorry, thought I was reading a thread about Trevor. Didn't read the NBA posts past the first few but was not expecting the thread to be hijacked for 2+ pages on the NBA. Maybe the NBA posts belong elsewhere. Just saying.
underground629
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 9, 2009
- Messages
- 3,459
- Reaction score
- 64
- Points
- 48
I think this is what we really need to get back to. If you're talking about this season, that list is absolutely atrocious. There's no question that Love is having a better season than Dirk, Nash, and Melo.
Comparing Love to most of the players on that second list THIS SEASON is just funny.
Comparing Love to most of the players on that second list THIS SEASON is just funny.
XMan
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2008
- Messages
- 4,782
- Reaction score
- 407
- Points
- 83
I agree
underground629 said:
IMO, Love's numbers are inflated due to being on a bad team with few other options to score, rebound, etc. he is a very efficient player and skilled player, but put Bynum or someone at center and I assume his totals go down.
tikited
Me
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 18,215
- Reaction score
- 5,481
- Points
- 113
He was doing the same thing when Rubio and Pek were both 100% healthy. You could use the above logic for a lot of the guys on both lists by the way.
I guess we should stop talking about pro basketball so some people don't get mad. Wouldn't want to ruin such an important thread about Ruesse.
I ran into Trevor Thursday night April 12 2012 at the Wolves game. He told me he would know something with in the next two weeks if he was going to come back or not. He said that he is working out right now with the team and dose not have any pain. I also saw Coleman and he told me that he is planning on playing in the Pulley Pro Am and his classes are going well and is having a good off season so far.
HOOP DREAMS
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2010
- Messages
- 2,663
- Reaction score
- 27
- Points
- 48
Thanks, you da main Steven.
I realize I am kind of bringing back an old thread and beating a dead horse, but wanted to pass this along that maybe ole Pat (whom, let me reiterate, I greatly dislike) may have not been completely crazy to suggest the Wolves trading for a lotto pick with Kevin Love (if it were agreed upon by the other team of course)
This is from Chad Ford with ESPN in an article with Bill Simmons on Grantland
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8100861/ford-vs-simmons
Basically saying, were Davis available from the Hornets only THREE players would be untouchable in that deal for other teams. Meaning if the Hornets agreed to Love for Davis, you should take it as the Wolves. Now, I am not so sure Davis is as special as Ford says he is, but the idea of trading Love for him isn't as out there as it seemed when Pat said it. In fact, the Hornets would likely be the ones to say no to that deal, not Minnesota.
This is from Chad Ford with ESPN in an article with Bill Simmons on Grantland
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8100861/ford-vs-simmons
Basically saying, were Davis available from the Hornets only THREE players would be untouchable in that deal for other teams. Meaning if the Hornets agreed to Love for Davis, you should take it as the Wolves. Now, I am not so sure Davis is as special as Ford says he is, but the idea of trading Love for him isn't as out there as it seemed when Pat said it. In fact, the Hornets would likely be the ones to say no to that deal, not Minnesota.
I'm pretty sure I said don't trade Love for a pick. I get a little skittish when trading bonafide stars for lottery picks, but Anthony Davis could be a different beast. I'll have to admit though, I haven't watched a ton of him to really fully grasp his game, so I'm probably just missing out. He's probably the only one though, anyone else in the draft, I don't make that deal.
dpodoll68
Elite Poster
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2008
- Messages
- 19,310
- Reaction score
- 931
- Points
- 113
Exactly right. "Don't trade Love for a pick" is markedly different than "Don't trade love for the #1 pick". Many are calling Davis the best draft prospect since LeBron. Aside from him, there are several players who project to be multi-year starters, perhaps even an All-Star or two, but certainly no one anticipated to be a franchise-changer. I can't recall a year in recent memory where there was a greater disparity in value between the #1 and #2 pick. Davis could be the modern-day Bill Russell. I've read several projections calling him, worst-case scenario, Marcus Camby (who was the #2 overall pick behind Iverson). I watched several Kentucky games this year (including all of the Tournament games), and it's difficult to pinpoint what "it" is, but he has "it". It's extremely difficult to meaningfully impact games without scoring a bunch of points, and he does it quite often, never more evident that in the national title game.