Reusse: That buzz you hear? Must be mosquitoes, not interest in Gophers

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Gopher Bandanna Guy said:
Many students who go to those MIAC schools or UMD and Mankato St, seem to develop their own loyalties to their school, but don't make a connection with the U. It seems different in Wisconsin. Kids who go to UW-Whitewater, LaCrosse, Stevens Point, etc. all seem to carry this weird allegiance to Madison. I don't get it.
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There is nothing weird about it at all. And the reason you don't get it is because you are clueless just like most other people in Minnesota.

UW Madison is one of the finest public research universities in the country and it is Wisconsin's most valuable economic resource. The research dollars UW generates and the spin-off businesses it creates are what drive Wisconsin's economy and prosperity. Students from Wisconsin who attend other schools are smart enough to recognize this and become huge Badger fans out of state pride.

Minnesota residents should feel the same way about the U, but they don't. That is because they are incredibly ignorant about how important the U is to the Sate of Minnesota, and they care more about their f*cking professional football team more than any other institution in the state. I despise the Vikings for just that reason alone.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
There is nothing weird about it at all. And the reason you don't get it is because you are clueless just like most other people in Minnesota.

UW Madison is one of the finest public research universities in the country and it is Wisconsin's most valuable economic resource. The research dollars UW generates and the spin-off businesses it creates are what drive Wisconsin's economy and prosperity. Students from Wisconsin who attend other schools are smart enough to recognize this and become huge Badger fans out of state pride.

Minnesota residents should feel the same way about the U, but they don't. That is because they are incredibly ignorant about how important the U is to the Sate of Minnesota, and they care more about their f*cking professional football team more than any other institution in the state. I despise the Vikings for just that reason alone.
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This is something that bothers me the most about the support for the Gopher football team and University in general. Point out lack of winning, competition for attention with 4 pro teams, and all the other factors that can affect attendance and viewership.. but I have definitely noticed that people in this state just seem to not care about the University of Minnesota. In fact, not care doesn't describe the feeling that many have very well... disdain for whatever reason.

Why is it that people who grow up in MN but attend a school like St Thomas, St Cloud State, or any other private non-UMN school (or heck, even people that went to UMD or UMN-TC itself!) can't have support for an institution that employs thousands, runs nationally recognized hospitals, commits to research in pharmacy/medical/engineering/agriculture/you name it, and I'm sure has had some people or kids pass through it that EVERYBODY at least knows. The U brings in tons of money and notoriety to this state and people can't seem to get that and would rather complain about how "the U is screwing over kids for tuition," or "it's just a waste of the government's money to support it who cares?"

This, to me, is one of the big reasons your casual fans don't ever get interested unless the team looks like it will go all the way (see: 2003 Mich game packed with fans and tons of buzz in town). Everyone likes a winner, so why not get behind them when they look good, right?

To that point, if winning brings in people in towns like these, not winning loses them just as quickly. Some people pointed out Miami, Pitt, etc as examples. As quickly as they gained tons of fans and backing, they lost it. Miami is no slouch right now (heck, they played in a national championship game in 2002) but their "fans" can't even fill their stands. This is what worries me... say we win a B10 title or 2 over the course of 5-7 years, but a few years later are back in mediocrity. How many fans will remain because of the fun, atmosphere, and sheer wanting to back a team they have come to enjoy and keep the perception of that up to entice recruits and winning? Not many...
 

Gopherhurrin said:
Sorry, I am rather addicted to the truth. Just get out the media guide and look at the last twenty years or so. When did we last win six or fewer Big Ten games over any three year period? Which Big Ten teams are we playing this year that we do not play most every year? How can you defend the decision to go 0-8 to introduce the spread and then drop the spread? It does not make any sense at all. Finally, do you really think the media is ever going to be won over with a five win season (2-6 in the Big Ten)?? Remember, this is the schedule that many of you begged for, including the coach. Does that not imply that three Big Ten wins should not be too difficult? I don't want to be argumentative, but surly you can not expect that something like wins against MSTU, SD, NIU, NU and Illinois will be seen as "getting better", "acceptable" or will improve Coach Brewster's image. The low expectations by the media this year are a clear indication that they no longer "believe".
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Well, it wasn't like Brewster said "Let's introduce the spread and go 0-8." He chose to completely change the offensive scheme of the team. Michigan has done a similar transition, remember the results over there? I am not saying it was the right thing to do. I said that was very much open for criticism.

You are correct, this was the schedule that we were begging for. He has rebuilt this program back to the mediocrity that was Mason's. Now, he has a more challenging schedule and is bringing in more talented players. Maybe it will be a disaster for him, and he loses his job.

Maybe, he beats MTSU (probably will win 10 games again this year), SD, NIU, NU (top 4 team in the Big 10 last year and predicted well ahead of the Gophers this year), Illinois, AND pulls off an upset against say Penn St./Iowa and Wisky or even USC - now you are talking about 7 or 8 wins against one of the toughest schedules in the country. Now, if you win your bowl game, you will probably finish the season ranked, or close to it. Now you are also on kids radars as an up and coming team - That is how you build a program. Is this overly optimistic, maybe. But that is my opinion, as you have stated yours.

You correct in your view of the media, a five win season isn't going to do it. However, as we saw in 2003, even a 10 win season didn't change anything.
 

I'm a "slack-jawed yokel" who went to UMD, and my allegiance lies with the University because it's the only public university in the state that represents the state itself in basketball and football on a national scene. People need to take pride in being Minnesotan, and need to take pride in having kids play their hearts out for nothing but a scholarship. I do not and never will understand the obsession people have with multimillion dollar earning primadonnas who have no investment in the team or the location they represent.

Also, it doesn't matter how many hits Reusse gets on the Strib, going on this site and seeing how many hits a thread with his name on it gets is fuel enough. Sheesh, people!
 

""Well, it wasn't like Brewster said "Let's introduce the spread and go 0-8." He chose to completely change the offensive scheme of the team"

Good point. What most people forget and manipulators like Loon choose to ignore is that Mason made the same damn mistake his first year but he ended-up 1-7 in the Big Ten not 0-8. Mason was given one of the best QB's in the Big Ten, Cory Sauter, a guy who had 2,465 yards in Total Offense in 1996 but only a negative 113 Rushing yards and tried to turn him into a Option QB!

The results were predictable. Sauter did gain 20 yards rushing but his overall Offensive numbers went down to 1,596 and the points scored stayed virtually the same.

Mason fired his Offensive Coordinator, a guy that had been fired from Kentucky I think, and put in his zone blocking running attack. While he had better success his second year, they went 2-6 in the Big Ten, it was his third year when they scored 368 points and 5-3 in the Big Ten, that his Offense came together. (Got my Media Guide!)

Brewster hasn't done that for a lot of reasons, reasons that have been stated here thousands of times before,maybe he's even a bad coach, who knows?

The most obvious differences? Mason realized his mistake, corrected it once, and he didn't have to pay-off a big contract to do it. He also destroyed Iowa 49-7 at the Dome in the last game of the season and in Hayden Fry's last game

The other is that after Wacker, and with his past successes, Mason was given a lot of rope by the fans that were left. Brewster HAD no prior success as a Head Coach and many of the Masonite fans have been trolling, hoping and maybe even praying for Brewster and Maturi to fail.

That's what leads to selective memory and research.
 


I'm an outsider but I believe the hockey rivalries screw up broader support. UMD etc build up a pretty good hatred for the U through hockey. It is hard to drop this feeling when the sport changes.

PS Maybe Gophers hockey fans should stop chanting 'Gopher reject" at the games.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Minnesota residents should feel the same way about the U, but they don't. That is because they are incredibly ignorant about how important the U is to the Sate of Minnesota, and they care more about their f*cking professional football team more than any other institution in the state. I despise the Vikings for just that reason alone.
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This is exactly true. A few months ago some idiot on this board actually argued that the Vikings were more of an 'institution' than the U. There is a serious disconnect that goes way beyond football that needs to be corrected. It goes beyond football, but is most apparent on the football field.
 

GopherGod said:
Regardless of a NFL team or not, if the University wins then people will come. It happened in the '70s when Pitt, Steelers, and Pirates were all winning. Attendance was strong at Colorado in the '90s when they were winning even though the Broncos own Denver. LSU did well with attendance last year even though the Saints were winning. Wisconsin does well even though the Packers are there. The Vikings are not the cause of lack of interest in the Gophers, it is years of mediocrity.
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LSU and Wisconsin are not good examples of how winning affects attendance in NFL towns. LSU is SEC football with a ridiculous tailgate and gameday atmosphere that also isn't located in the same city as the Saints. And even if they were in New Orleans they'd still sell out b/c of that crazy SEC mindset. I've already pointed out how Madison is different as a college town...the Packers have no impact on the Badgers.
 

I think the other thing about the UW system is that ITS THE UW SYSTEM. The way the system is set up allows students to go to a non-Madison campus and easily transfer into UW if they do well. They have their own sports teams, but like Winni points out, they don't compete against the Badgers in anything (with the exception of UW-Milwaukee and UW-GB in basketball, neither of which are rivalries).

The outstate "state" schools in MN are mostly not part of the UM system and almost all of them have D-1 hockey teams that seem to occupy the flagship sports program spot for their school by virtue of being a D-1 competitor. WCHA schools hate each other and so their fans get used to hating on Minnesota. I think its just a different dynamic.
 



Brew_recruit said:
This might be too real for some people on this board, but this is the truth. The Viking haters that go to the U and become Gopher fans are 90% Badger rejects. They grew up in Wisc and didn't get in and then they come here and cheer for the Gophers unless the badgers are in town, and then rip on the Vikings on Sundays.
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BS. I want to see all these people who "couldn't get in" to Madison and then came to Minnesota because they could get in. They don't exist. We're talking two good schools, one slightly better than the other according to most metrics. We're not talking Princeton vs. St. Cloud.
 

GopherGod said:
Regardless of a NFL team or not, if the University wins then people will come. It happened in the '70s when Pitt, Steelers, and Pirates were all winning. Attendance was strong at Colorado in the '90s when they were winning even though the Broncos own Denver. LSU did well with attendance last year even though the Saints were winning. Wisconsin does well even though the Packers are there. The Vikings are not the cause of lack of interest in the Gophers, it is years of mediocrity.
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This might be the first time you've ever posted a factually correct, non-d*uchey post. And it only took you 1,466 posts. Good job!
 

I suppose there are always exceptions to the rule, but my dad is a St. Thomas grad and for whatever reason got me into Gopher sports at a young age. I don't think he has ever taken me to a St. Thomas related event. I'm now a student at the U and he's a football season ticket holder.

I definitely agree with the observations of the strange tendency of many Minnesotans to dislike the U. If you dare, go and check the comments section for any U related article on the Star Tribune website that isn't in the sports section. There are few topics that stir up more malcontents than our beloved university.
 

For what it is worth I went to St. Mary's. I am active in their Alumni Assoc. and care very, very deeply about that school. At the same time, I hope I've also been able to show how much I care about Gopher football and most Gopher sports...I still have some issues with Gopher hockey but that is a discussion for another day. The U is OUR state school and we should be proud of it and we should be proud of the football team. Heck they play Big Ten football, that alone should get people fired up. I guess I personally feel there is nothing better than Big Ten football and I cannot wait to cheer on MY state school every Saturday.
 



Reusse is using a rhetorical trick. One way to get people to swallow a dubious proposition is to, instead of trying to prove to you that it is true, to show show the alleged causes. If you play his game, it gets you to swallow his dubious proposition that no one is interested in Gopher football. It's like if I was to ask "Why are Arby's roast beef sandwiches so delicious?" If you play my game, you implicitly accept my proposition that Arby's roast beef sandwiches are delicious. (Apologies to those who like Arby's)

He does provide a piece of evidence that Gopher football is less popular than Vikings football. That doesn't establish that his proposition is true. To be less popular than the Vikings does not mean that no one is interested in the Gophers. But he ignores other evidence. Attendance is comparable. Sure, it's less for Gophers games than for Vikings. But 63,000 to approximately 50,000 is comparable. If interest was really all that low, there wouldn't be nearly that many people at Gophers games. Even at our worst attendance levels, with a half full Metrodome, that's still not nothing. And people are watching on TV and listening to the radio.

It doesn't do any good to shake fists at people who attend the other colleges around the state. I haven't seen any evidence that they are any less likely to be interested in the Gophers, except perhaps for those schools that have D-I hockey, for some of them the hockey rivalry translates to the other sports. If I'm in outstate Minnesota, I don't need to pick up the Strib to read about the Gophers game, it will be covered in the outstate papers too. That's because there are people all over the state who want to read about it. Sure, the Strib and the PP will have more detailed coverage, but that's true of the Vikings too.

I do think the U could do a better job reaching out to the outstate area. Buy quarter page ads in small town papers. It wouldn't cost too much, and would buy good will with the editors of these papers. If we didn't get stuck with the 11AM starts that would be good too, because then people could watch their D-II game, and then go home and watch the Gophers.
 

dpodoll68 said:
BS. I want to see all these people who "couldn't get in" to Madison and then came to Minnesota because they could get in. They don't exist. We're talking two good schools, one slightly better than the other according to most metrics. We're not talking Princeton vs. St. Cloud.
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They don't exist? Really? You're going to go with that level of certainty? The admissions thing doesn't have to do with the quality of the school necessarily. It has to do with how Madison runs their admissions process. I heard plenty of stories from fellow students at Lawrence (no slouch of a D-III school) who were valedictory level in HS but didn't get in to Madison. When that happens, reciprocity (another unique twist on the whole situation) makes the U a good option for the very reason that it is a great state school just like UW.

I certainly don't think there are wave after wave of these "UW rejects" flowing into MN every year, but to pretend there aren't factors that do make this something that happens with some frequency is just silly.
 

GoAUpher said:
They don't exist? Really? You're going to go with that level of certainty? The admissions thing doesn't have to do with the quality of the school necessarily. It has to do with how Madison runs their admissions process. I heard plenty of stories from fellow students at Lawrence (no slouch of a D-III school) who were valedictory level in HS but didn't get in to Madison. When that happens, reciprocity (another unique twist on the whole situation) makes the U a good option for the very reason that it is a great state school just like UW.

I certainly don't think there are wave after wave of these "UW rejects" flowing into MN every year, but to pretend there aren't factors that do make this something that happens with some frequency is just silly.
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2008-2009 academic year admissions statistics:

Minnesota
52.5% acceptance rate
25th-75th percentile SAT
Verbal 530-670
Math 580-710
Writing 520-650
25th-75th percentile ACT
24-29

Wisconsin
62.8% acceptance rate
25th-75th percentile SAT
Verbal 550-670
Math 610-710
Writing 560-670
25th-75th percentile ACT
26-30

This is oversimplifying things a bit, but our sample size is confined to individuals who scored higher than 24, but lower than 26, on the ACT, and/or higher than 1630, but lower than 1720, on the SAT. Now out of that small sample size, the only applicable people are those who applied to both the U and Madison. Now, out of that even smaller sample size, only the people that actually care about and follow collegiate sports are applicable to this discussion. "They don't exist" was a tad strong, but only barely. Given that we're talking about a subset of a subset of an already small sample set, this so-called "sea of Badger rejects" cannot be more than 50-100 U freshman per year, at most. If so, I'll eat my hat.

As you well know, Brew_recruit is an uber-d*uche. What happened is that he ran into some guy at a party who's from Wausau and claimed that he couldn't get into Madison, and went to the U "even though he didn't really want to" (when the truth is somewhat more nuanced than that), and that somehow (in Brew_recruit's puny and pathetic little mind) got stretched out into "90% of Viking haters that go to the U are Badger rejects."

My good friend Josh, the GopherHole's resident Viking hater, is unequivocally not from Wisconsin, most definitely did not apply to Madison and get rejected, and is still a Vikings hater. I guess he must fit into that 10%, huh? He apparently is one of 5 people on planet Earth who is a U alum, did not get rejected from Madison, and hates the Vikings. You didn't know you were in such a small elite, did you Josh?
 

Just for the record I don't hate the Vikes. I hate the Bears. I hope that doesn't mess up the statistics :D.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
There is nothing weird about it at all. And the reason you don't get it is because you are clueless just like most other people in Minnesota.
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Ouch. That was a bit uncalled for. Call me clueless if you must, but I was born and raised in Wisconsin, and as I grew up I recognized UW-Madison to be exactly as you described, but it never forced any allegiance to their sports teams.

You think UW-Whitewater 'frat boy X' or UW-Oshkosh 'chick Y' feels loyal to the Badgers because they recognize what a great research institution Madison is? You might want to relook at that. I have plenty of friends who went to WIAC schools who aren't Badger fans because of Madison's contributions to the state economy. They're fans because they like to go to Madison, tie one on along State Street, and show up at the game in midway thru the 2nd quarter. The college gameday experience at Madison should not be underestimated in how it pulls in students who don't have as much fun at the UW-SP vs. UW-Plattville game...

And trust me, there are plenty of Packer Fans in the state who think that they are a more important 'institution' than the Wisconsin flagship university, too.
 

Gopher Bandanna Guy said:
You think UW-Whitewater 'frat boy X' or UW-Oshkosh 'chick Y' feels loyal to the Badgers because they recognize what a great research institution Madison is? You might want to relook at that.
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Have to agree here. The majority of college age kids from WI @ other schools aren't going to be showing allegiance b/c of what UW "means" to the state economically or academically. That's too adult a motive to matter to most 18-22 year olds.
 

johnnybb said:
I suppose there are always exceptions to the rule, but my dad is a St. Thomas grad and for whatever reason got me into Gopher sports at a young age. I don't think he has ever taken me to a St. Thomas related event. I'm now a student at the U and he's a football season ticket holder.

I definitely agree with the observations of the strange tendency of many Minnesotans to dislike the U. If you dare, go and check the comments section for any U related article on the Star Tribune website that isn't in the sports section. There are few topics that stir up more malcontents than our beloved university.
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You could have an article on ice cream, and the comment section would be filled with bashers, it proves nothing. It simply represents a small number of highly dedicated trolls. They would LOVE to create the impression that a lot of Minnesotans dislike the U, the problem is, it isn't true.
 

The hope would be that the parents of MSU Mankato, SCSU, St. Thomas, etc. student recognized the importance of the U and instilled a sense of pride in their kids. I have tremendous pride in being a UW- River Falls grad, but was raised as a fan of the U. By my Grandpa and Dad.
 

GoAUpher said:
Have to agree here. The majority of college age kids from WI @ other schools aren't going to be showing allegiance b/c of what UW "means" to the state economically or academically. That's too adult a motive to matter to most 18-22 year olds.
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That's too adult of a motive for most 30-40 year olds. It's College Football.
 

Yes, that's why Johns Hopkins, the University of Chicago and MIT are the most popular football teams in the country. ;)
 


johnnybb said:
I suppose there are always exceptions to the rule, but my dad is a St. Thomas grad and for whatever reason got me into Gopher sports at a young age. I don't think he has ever taken me to a St. Thomas related event. I'm now a student at the U and he's a football season ticket holder.

I definitely agree with the observations of the strange tendency of many Minnesotans to dislike the U. If you dare, go and check the comments section for any U related article on the Star Tribune website that isn't in the sports section. There are few topics that stir up more malcontents than our beloved university.
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My personal favorite feature on www.startribune.com, and I'm not kidding, is the one that allows all comments to be hidden.

It makes that site far more attractive to visit!
 

dpodoll68 said:
2008-2009 academic year admissions statistics:

Minnesota
52.5% acceptance rate
25th-75th percentile SAT
Verbal 530-670
Math 580-710
Writing 520-650
25th-75th percentile ACT
24-29

Wisconsin
62.8% acceptance rate
25th-75th percentile SAT
Verbal 550-670
Math 610-710
Writing 560-670
25th-75th percentile ACT
26-30

This is oversimplifying things a bit, but our sample size is confined to individuals who scored higher than 24, but lower than 26, on the ACT, and/or higher than 1630, but lower than 1720, on the SAT. Now out of that small sample size, the only applicable people are those who applied to both the U and Madison. Now, out of that even smaller sample size, only the people that actually care about and follow collegiate sports are applicable to this discussion. "They don't exist" was a tad strong, but only barely. Given that we're talking about a subset of a subset of an already small sample set, this so-called "sea of Badger rejects" cannot be more than 50-100 U freshman per year, at most. If so, I'll eat my hat.

As you well know, Brew_recruit is an uber-d*uche. What happened is that he ran into some guy at a party who's from Wausau and claimed that he couldn't get into Madison, and went to the U "even though he didn't really want to" (when the truth is somewhat more nuanced than that), and that somehow (in Brew_recruit's puny and pathetic little mind) got stretched out into "90% of Viking haters that go to the U are Badger rejects."

My good friend Josh, the GopherHole's resident Viking hater, is unequivocally not from Wisconsin, most definitely did not apply to Madison and get rejected, and is still a Vikings hater. I guess he must fit into that 10%, huh? He apparently is one of 5 people on planet Earth who is a U alum, did not get rejected from Madison, and hates the Vikings. You didn't know you were in such a small elite, did you Josh?
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Haha - I know I am in the vast majority with the Vikings, and most people on here don't like my take. But I am definitely a Minnesotan through and through. I actually don't hate the Vikings like I do the Badgers or Hawkeyes. It is a strange apathetic viewpoint. Over time I've just found myself slowly stopping rooting for them - mainly starting in college when I started working in the Twin Cities media. I started to realize the relationship between the two teams in the media's eyes and it changed how I viewed the teams.

The reality is that most Gopher fans also like the Vikings because they are both Minnesota football teams - totally understandable. Most people think I have some sort of "loser" mentality because I blame the Vikings for part of the Gophers' struggles. In fact, the exact opposite is true - I am trying my best to push an unpopular viewpoint on to others just in the mere hope that my Vikings viewpoint can gain momentum, even if it means convincing one person at at time, and the pro team can start to become less popular. Ironically, I would have a loser mentality if I was just sitting back and wasn't trying to change those opinions and wasn't voicing my beliefs.
 

http://poolsville.blogspot.com/2010/08/ncaa-football-attendance-for-2009.html

A little perspective on our attendance. It's skewed because the Big Ten has some of the largest stadiums in the country, and our attendance isn't great compared to other Big Ten teams. But compared to other BCS schools, it's not so bad.

Our attendance was #42 in I-A for 2009. This put us ahead of the following BCS schools:

Kansas
Purdue
Texas Tech
Colorado
Rutgers
Arizona State
Virginia
Miami (FL)
Kansas State
Iowa State
Utah (not BCS now, but will be)
Maryland
Oregon State
Indiana
Stanford
Syracuse
UConn
Baylor
Vanderbilt
Cincinatti
Louisville
Wake Forest
Duke
Washington State
Northwestern
 

TCF offers us several real advantages which we have not had before or which were less advantages before. We have the potential now to have what we had for the Air Force game. Total Gopher support. However, I will continue to believe that we will not be able to maintain our "47,000 Gopher fans" advantage for long without Big Ten wins. An occasional 2-6, 3-5 season will be our reality for as far out as I can see. However, we must have the 5-3, 4-4 seasons too if we are ever going to get a chance at 7-1. We can't just keep stacking losing Big Ten seasons on top of one another without losing the potential of TCF.
 

dpodoll68 said:
BS. I want to see all these people who "couldn't get in" to Madison and then came to Minnesota because they could get in. They don't exist. We're talking two good schools, one slightly better than the other according to most metrics. We're not talking Princeton vs. St. Cloud.
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you need to open your eyes to the dorms on Saturdays when we play the badgers. Plus for years Madison was harder to get into then the U and tons of kids from Wisc came here instead, and then they bitched about the lack of parties compared to Madison and how bad our sports teams were. Everyone grows up in Wisc as a huge Badger fan, lots of kids from Minnesota don't become huge gopher fans until they start school here.
 

Brew_recruit said:
you need to open your eyes to the dorms on Saturdays when we play the badgers.
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I was unaware that all U of M students lived in the dorms.

Brew_recruit said:
Plus for years Madison was harder to get into then the U
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Yes, but only barely. There is not enough of a difference to create this huge mass of Madison rejects who were admitted to the U as a safety school. Madison is not Harvard or Yale. Not even remotely in the ballpark.

Brew_recruit said:
and tons of kids from Wisc came here instead
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How many of those were kids who "applied and couldn't get into Madison"? You don't know exactly and neither do I, but I guarantee the number is much, much smaller than you think it is. Your logic is so idiotic that it's absurd. It's like saying that all the kids from SD, ND, and Iowa that came here only did so because they didn't get into their respective state schools.

Brew_recruit said:
Everyone grows up in Wisc as a huge Badger fan
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False. I know plenty who root for the Gophers and have done so their entire lives. Hint: your experience is not universal.

Why don't you tell us some more about how Minnetonka is a southern suburb?
 

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