Reusse: Kill follows the Mason School of Scheduling; Kill still wants out of UNC game

Donate To GopherHole
BleedGopher

BleedGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
62,847
Reaction score
20,335
Points
113
Kill confirmed again he wants out of the North Carolina series and said, "We always need three [nonconference] home games, and four would be better. With the division we're in, and with Wisconsin as our crossover game, there's no benefit in getting beat up in nonconference games."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/168687156.html?refer=y

Go Gophers!!
 

Don't even bother reading fat Patti's article. She is still smarting from being bullied on the playground as a young lass and her only way to feel better is to knock others. I have fat Patti just ahead of Sid in my dead pool. Patti's ample girth is going to result in a major heart attack just wait and see.

Go Gophers!
 

That quote from Kill is more negative than anything Reusse could write. This is defeatist type stuff in my opinion and limits the ceiling of your team. Nobody is fooled by "winning" seasons that come on the backs of 4 non-conference cupcakes. One tough game on the road is not going to "beat up" your team. Asking kids to play 9 tough games out of 12 (less if a Big Ten team is really bad) is not too much to ask. Play your schedule, and for the love of god don't appear to be crying about playing teams that should be your peers in your own conference.
 

EG#9 said:
That quote from Kill is more negative than anything Reusse could write. This is defeatist type stuff in my opinion and limits the ceiling of your team. Nobody is fooled by "winning" seasons that come on the backs of 4 non-conference cupcakes. One tough game on the road is not going to "beat up" your team. Asking kids to play 9 tough games out of 12 (less if a Big Ten team is really bad) is not too much to ask. Play your schedule, and for the love of god don't appear to be crying about playing teams that should be your peers in your own conference.
Click to expand...

I really like Kill but agree with this.
 




I don't personally care who is on the non-conference schedule just as long as the program grows, the staff delivers victories, and the whole organization keeps it clean. In the midst of a Big Ten or January victory (let alone appearance), the last thing in my mind would be regretting our non-conference scheduling.

I like winning against good teams, honest. But, I think I'll give Kill leeway on this one. -(for now.)
 

Tubby gets criticized because his cowardly scheduling affects the non-conference attendance. Country Jer absolutely deserves the same.

The same people -- and bloggers (MV, I'm looking in your direction, although you'll pretend it never happened) -- who praised and even got excited when Brew scheduled real, live, competitive opponents will now mouth-and-cup Kill because he's trying to beat up on cupcakes.

I'll type this once: We cannot simultaneously be confident in our coach's ability to turn around this program AND be supportive of his public and wholehearted declarations that this team can only play cupcakes in the non-conference schedule in order to succeed. He's stacking wins to preserve his tenure. So did Mase.

Jerry Kill wants me to pay good money to watch the Gophers beat up the likes of New Hampshire, North Canada University, Idaho Independent Nationals and Southwestern Minnesota Independent Protestant University FOR THE SOLE DAMN PURPOSE that I can watch his awful 2-4 B1G play at 3:15 on December 27 on the NFL Network? NO. *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# YOU!

Until then, all praise the holy Kill. He's not doing it right. Stop kidding yourselves. And stop giving your money to an empty university and its empty football program. Demand more.
 

The Brewmaster said:
Jerry Kill wants me to pay good money to watch the Gophers beat up the likes of New Hampshire, North Canada University, Idaho Independent Nationals and Southwestern Minnesota Independent Protestant University FOR THE SOLE DAMN PURPOSE that I can watch his awful 2-4 B1G play at 3:15 on December 27 on the NFL Network? NO. *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# YOU
Click to expand...

Problem is we haven't been beating up those teams. That's the first step.

On another note; I was really looking forward to the yearly scheduling with the Pac 12. To bad that fell through.
 



More cupcakes the better.

2008 the Gophers beat four cupcakes and were one chip shot field goal from Joel Monroe away from being 8-1 and ranked in the top 20.

2009 - it sure would've been nice to start 4-0 as Wisconsin was heading to town. Would've been a matchup of two unbeaten teams. Alas the Badgers won by 3, the Gophers were 3-2 and the entire state went ho-hum, who do the Vikings play tomorrow?

2006 - getting drilled by Cal only accomplished getting Mason fired and Brew hired.

2004 - Four cupcakes led the Gophers to 13th in the country before a meltdown late in Michigan

2003 - Four cupcakes led to the most important Gopher game in 20-25 years?

There's no reason to schedule big time matchups if the rest of the country doesn't care about the matchup.
 

What do you people want? Do you want wins or do you want to be "proud" that you got your ass kicked while playing a bunch of name opponents? I, too, wish the Gophers were in a position where we could be competitive with a strong non-conference schedule. Unfortunately, we're just not very good right now. For Kill, it's not about never playing those types of games. It's about not playing those types of games this early. It's too much too soon. I'll say it again for those who weren't paying attention the first time - deal with things as they are, not as you would like them to be.
 

dpodoll68 said:
What do you people want? Do you want wins or do you want to be "proud" that you got your ass kicked while playing a bunch of name opponents?
Click to expand...

How about just ONE name opponent every year? That would be good for starters but apparently we are not even going to get that. Those of us who spent years complaining about Mason and his sh*tty non-conference schedule and below average results in the Big 10 are not going to give Kill a pass on this. It is the same kind of defeatist thinking that resulted in the Gophers taking Nebraska off our non-conference schedule in 1990 after playing them for 90 years.

Whatever happened to the commonly held view in GopherHole that big time potential recruits will want to play on prime time TV against big time opponents? I absolutely loved that we played USC, Cal, and even had Texas scheduled for awhile. And many of our recruits said they loved it too. I am afraid we might have learned this past spring that Kill may not want to compete against Top 25 teams for blue chip recruits. Like Mason he appears to be more comfortable competing against second tier teams. I completely agree with Reusse on this issue.
 

dpodoll68 said:
What do you people want? Do you want wins or do you want to be "proud" that you got your ass kicked while playing a bunch of name opponents?
Click to expand...

I would much prefer to watch us lose to the likes of USC than the likes of NDSU.
 



Whatever NC schedule results in a 7-1 B10 finish, I'm for. If that means playing the lake conference like they did in 1899 fair enough.

Oops, cue Archie.
 

dpodoll68 said:
What do you people want? Do you want wins or do you want to be "proud" that you got your ass kicked while playing a bunch of name opponents? I, too, wish the Gophers were in a position where we could be competitive with a strong non-conference schedule. Unfortunately, we're just not very good right now. For Kill, it's not about never playing those types of games. It's about not playing those types of games this early. It's too much too soon. I'll say it again for those who weren't paying attention the first time - deal with things as they are, not as you would like them to be.
Click to expand...

+1,000
 

I don't understand why this is up for debate.

What is our goal?

If our goal is a Big Ten Title, playing a tough non-conference schedule could prepare the team--- or, could beat the team up so they're weaker heading into conference play.

If our goal is a National Championship, I'll take the 4 cupcake wins and count on the Big Ten competition to give me the strength of schedule necessary to win a BCS birth or playoff birth.

In my mind, it's risk versus reward. I don't see the reward of playing a team like USC, UNC, or Texas before Big Ten play starts.
 

If this is part of a bigger plan, I'm fine with it. If he eventually gets the program to a place where they'll take on anyone, anywhere, that's the goal. Right now, it does look like he's scared to take on anyone with equal or better talent. It's like the Twins being scared poopless each and every time they play the Yankees. If you're afraid of the name on the other team's uniform, your goose is already cooked. Eventually, you've got to take on Tito Santana or the Iron Sheik if you want your shot at Hulk Hogan. Beating up on Jake "The Milkman" Milligan or the Sodbuster Kenny Jay isn't going to cut it.
 

College football is a much different landscape than it was ten years ago, and certainly 15 years ago. There's no longer as great a separation between top FCS schools and even mid-tier FBS schools. So, yeah, scheduling a team like New Hampshire at home should be a likely victory, but maybe it's 60%(?) a likely win vs 99% likely of winning 15 years ago.

Also, we're already assurred of playing Nebraska, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Iowa, and Northwestern every single year, right? That's six games against perrennial top 25 teams (yes, I'm including Northwestern in that group), not to mention upcoming years when we're going to be playing Ohio State (they'll rebound quick with Meyer and his recruiting classes).

The point is to develop confidence in winning. None of these games are even assured victories at this point, but if the likelihood is that your squad will win, and ideally win by a large amount (provide an opportunity to sit guys, stay healthy, and play young guys), then all the better - they'll be better prepared for a brutal Big 10 schedule.
 

I like Jerry, but disagree 100% with him on this one. It is embarrassing to be asking your AD to back out of a game that is against a mid-tier ACC school. Go play the game and win it. That will do more for the program than dropping UNC and beating Louisiana-Monroe at home.
 

Lots of good angles here. I agree with dpodoll68 that fans need to look at this in context of where the team is now, but I also agree with EG#9 and GophersinIowa (who I should just call Hacksaw "AAA-OOO") in that you want to play the best and maybe at some point, the program will be in good enough shape so that we can have a "feature" non-conference game. Picking up on GophersinIowa's wrestling theme, Edina's own Ric Flair's quote always rings true, "If you want to be the man, you have to beat the man. Whooooooo!"

I used to rip on Mason for devouring a tray of non-conference cupcakes and I would be inconsistent if I gave Kill a pass.
 

There is a balance that needs to be had. You cannot schedule a full slate of non-con cupcakes and expect to excite an already lethargic fanbase. Fans will go to see bigger schools come to TCF and play, particularly if our program continues to improve.

The right approach, I think, is giving the team games they should win, but allowing for at least one legitimate challenger. Teams like Colorado, Kansas, Washington State, Kentucky, etc. Larger BCS schools that draw at least some fan interest, but are also on our level. I see more benefit to playing one of these squads as opposed to playing a top-level MAC squad, which is about equivalently dangerous. Scheduling one larger BCS program in with games against teams like UNLV, NH, FIU, AK St., etc, is the right way to go.

The thing that gets tough is knowing where these programs will be at the date of the game as they are being scheduled. It's difficult to know if Ohio (MAC) will be a legitimate threat in 2015, though they surely are right now. Can't say if Leach will have Wazzou up and running by then either. It's a work of probability, I suppose.

I actually think this year's schedule is damn near ideal, aside from opening up on the road. UNLV, New Hampshire, and W Michigan are a good opening three to judge your strengths/weaknesses with a young squad. 'Cuse comes in for a night game that should be a match between two closely ranked squads. That's a good primer before moving in to B1G play.

Teague and Kill should not try to opt out of the home-and-home series with NC - particularly given their other non-con opponents those years (UNLV, Western Illinois, and San Jose St. all at home in 2013; Eastern Illinois, Midd Tenn St, and San Jose St. all at home in 2014).
 

wels0081 said:
I don't understand why this is up for debate.

What is our goal?

If our goal is a Big Ten Title, playing a tough non-conference schedule could prepare the team--- or, could beat the team up so they're weaker heading into conference play.

If our goal is a National Championship, I'll take the 4 cupcake wins and count on the Big Ten competition to give me the strength of schedule necessary to win a BCS birth or playoff birth.

In my mind, it's risk versus reward. I don't see the reward of playing a team like USC, UNC, or Texas before Big Ten play starts.
Click to expand...

THERE'S the problem. Jerry puts North Carolina in the same category as USC and Texas! Kill thinks that even one game against a comparable BCS team destroys his chance of a Bowl Game. The problem is the only way his "weak sister" schedule works at the box office is if he can consistently go 7-1 or 6-2 in Big Ten Conference play. That would make the Gophers a big time draw and make buying Season Tickets the only way to get seats. That's happened ONCE in the last 50 years. Cal Stoll did it in 19 and seventy-three!

4-4 or 5-3 will not get it done at the gate. They need a 6 or 7 win conference record. Holtz put people in the seats on the HOPE that he could get that record done. Does anybody seriously think that Kill, a guy who is afraid to play North Carolina is going to get that done?

Even Mason's vaunted 10-3 team finished 5-3 in the Big Ten. He blew that big lead against Michigan on Friday night in front of 62,374. The attendance for his last four Home Games: 38,778, 46,407, 45,398, and 59,543 when they beat Wisconsin. How many Sconies do you think made up that crowd?

You know what "I need four creampuffs and make 'um HOME games" translates into English? "There's NO way I'm winning more then three Conference games. Hell, I'm going be hard pressed to win TWO!"

Many people were pretty concerned last year when Kill and company were so damn eager to throw his players under the bus. "THEY suck! It's not our fault." Particularly after their bullheaded 1st half approach on Defense cost them the NMSU and NDSU games.
Now it's not the players who will cost them a Bowl Game. It's the schedule. Either way it would still be Brewster or the A.D.'s fault.

Jerry Kill's rep as a "stand-up" guy is wearing pretty thin.
 

Stan The Caddy said:
I like Jerry, but disagree 100% with him on this one. It is embarrassing to be asking your AD to back out of a game that is against a mid-tier ACC school. Go play the game and win it. That will do more for the program than dropping UNC and beating Louisiana-Monroe at home.
Click to expand...

Agree. UNC is hardly USC. Why so afraid of UNC?
 

50PoundHead said:
I used to rip on Mason for devouring a tray of non-conference cupcakes and I would be inconsistent if I gave Kill a pass.
Click to expand...

We aren't devouring anyone at this point, so the comparison with Mason's schedule is a poor one. We are struggling with the directional schools at this point.

The question is what's better for the program long-term? People that are pissed because they have to watch New Hampshire this year instead of Texas or Oregon are just being selfish.

Build wins. Build confidence. Make a few bowl games. Then improve the schedule over time. It's a process.

It's true, in order to be the best, you've got to take on the best, but you also need to work up to it. A rookie boxer doesn't just jump into the ring with Mike Tyson. I really think this is a machismo, armchair quarterback thing.
 

The only "cupcake" is Patty! Move down to the end of the
bench...or maybe you should take your ball and go home!
 

I think both sides have an argument. I guess my opinion is: I don't lump North Carolina in the same group with USC & Texas. I enjoyed going out to LA last year like everyone else and would have loved to have gone to Austin had that game still been going on, but I get it why we shouldn't do that. UNC is a respectable program, but I don't lump them in that same boat.

I don't think asking for one mid to lower tier team in a BCS conference is asking to get our heads beat in. More lower than mid is fine, but perception is reality sometimes. Having a program that's struggling like Colorado still offers a better perception than Western Michigan, even though WMU would more than likely beat CU.

EDIT: Some others beat me to it in regards to comparing UNC vs. USC/Texas
 

dpodoll

dpodoll68 said:
What do you people want? Do you want wins or do you want to be "proud" that you got your ass kicked while playing a bunch of name opponents? I, too, wish the Gophers were in a position where we could be competitive with a strong non-conference schedule. Unfortunately, we're just not very good right now. For Kill, it's not about never playing those types of games. It's about not playing those types of games this early. It's too much too soon. I'll say it again for those who weren't paying attention the first time - deal with things as they are, not as you would like them to be.
Click to expand...

Easy question dpodoll! They want to bitch, whine, and feel sorry for themselves!
 

Go4Broke said:
How about just ONE name opponent every year? That would be good for starters but apparently we are not even going to get that. Those of us who spent years complaining about Mason and his sh*tty non-conference schedule and below average results in the Big 10 are not going to give Kill a pass on this. It is the same kind of defeatist thinking that resulted in the Gophers taking Nebraska off our non-conference schedule in 1990 after playing them for 90 years.

Whatever happened to the commonly held view in GopherHole that big time potential recruits will want to play on prime time TV against big time opponents? I absolutely loved that we played USC, Cal, and even had Texas scheduled for awhile. And many of our recruits said they loved it too. I am afraid we might have learned this past spring that Kill may not want to compete against Top 25 teams for blue chip recruits. Like Mason he appears to be more comfortable competing against second tier teams. I completely agree with Reusse on this issue.
Click to expand...

I hear what you're saying, but let's compare apples to apples. Mason played three BCS/BCS-equivalent non-conference opponents in his entire tenure - Iowa St. (1997) in his 1st season, Baylor (2000) in his 4th season, and Cal (2006) in his 10th and final season. That means we went 5 consecutive seasons without playing a power conference opponent in his 5th-9th seasons, a time frame when the team was exclusively comprised of his players and should've been able to compete against even a slightly more difficult set of schedules. Neither Baylor nor Iowa St. were any good when we played them, so one could easily make the argument that we played only one "quality" non-conference opponent in Mason's entire tenure. We are in Kill's second season, and after we play Syracuse, he will have already played 2 opponents better than any non-conference opponent Mason played other than Cal. If we play UNC in 2013 as scheduled, it will be in Kill's 3rd season. Will you give him a pass and a pat on the back if we go 5-7 instead of 6-6 and miss out on a bowl because we played UNC instead of Akron or San Jose St.? If we're still consistently scheduling all non-AQ-type opponents in Kill's 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th seasons, you will have a legitimate gripe. If Kill isn't confident enough in his team by then to play some name competition, he should be on his way out of town and let's bring in someone who will. But let's learn to crawl before we walk. He is trying to build a program that will compete with the best in the conference by years 5-9. What good does it do to go get smoked by a team with much better talent? What purpose does that serve? We might win, but we probably won't. What good will it have done then? Let's play UNC or an equivalent in year 5 and beyond - not now when the team's psyche is fragile and we're attempting to build a culture of winning.
 

I think something is being lost in the entire subject. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought in the not too near future the Big Ten is going to a "nine game" conference schedule. If that indeed turns out being the case we'll have that extra BCS opponent. I see both arguments but lean more towards the idea Kill's building it up and once there I would hope they strengthen it at that time. I think the point is moot though if they go to a enlarged Big Ten schedule.
 

This is an interesting question. Lots of ways to look at this:

If you take the quote from Coach Kill at face value, it sounds like he is trying to duck any strong OOC competition. It becomes pretty easy to say "he wants to be like Mase, get some cheap wins, hope for 3-5 in league and get to Phoenix for a game no one will watch or remember. He is looking for a 9 year cushy deal to retire on". Personally, I don't think that is the case, but I can certainly understand someone making that leap.

If you want to take another, slightly less cynical approach, you could argue that with the financial situation we are in, the athletic department needs the money and what Coach wants is another gate to invest in the program. This is the least plausible of the three ways of looking at things.

The third approach is that Coach Kill thinks that the best way to get a B1G championship is to get 4 games, preferably home, to get the kinks worked out. This approach keeps the team relatively healthy, builds confidence and (in his mind) should help build buzz. I suspect this is where Coach is on this topic. That said, the challenge to that approach is our history. Whether you like Reusse or not (and I personally do not), he correctly illustrates the challenge Coach Kill faces. The small, loyal group who steadfastly support this program, of which I am one, will buy season tickets, tailgate passes, join GLC and buy Gopher gear religiously as always. That works well in some ways. But it does nothing for the average fan on the street. The cynical bandwagon jumper of today who we need to get on board for good and bad seasons (see numerous posts detailing "what can we do to fill the stadium/sell tickets? threads) will not get excited. That is how we end up with great OOC records and 40,000 in the house for a ranked Purdue conference opener in 2005. While I have been a diehard for years, I am smart enough to know that a gaudy OOC record against cupcakes makes you no more than a local and national punchline if you can't back it up. At the end of the day, this program needs to sell tickets and generate revenues and do it now. We have a thread here projecting our attendance Saturday at present that shows 35% expect less than 40,000 and another 35% expect less than 45,000 for a pretty good UNH squad. If you drop that game or Western Michigan the following week, what will attendance be. Will it spike for the 'Cuse game against a BCS opponent? Might be a telling statistic to see if the one mid-tier/low-tier BCS opponent is a good call or not. If we can't draw for that game, I would tend to side with Coach that you get your wins and hope you can carry over and have that one breakthrough season that can drive ticket sales for years. The only problem is that if you miss that breakthrough season and get back to Mason levels with garbage OOC wins, expect a return to the days of 40,000 home games with few students and sell outs only courtesy of the NDSU's, Wisconsin's and Iowa's. If you do get a crowd spike for 'Cuse, it makes a pretty good argument that fans want to see a decent OOC game every season if possible. Should be interesting to see what happens with attendance the next few weeks.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom